Carbs as a thermostat
daylitemag
Posts: 604 Member
Lately I've been thinking about what I will do if I ever get to my long-term goal weight (180-200lbs). I've been at this for more than 30 years and never got down that low. I always end up gaining back whatever I've lost. I hope this change to LCHF will be "the" change that is sustainable for me. I think it may be as I find it really easy, so far.
In the back of my mind is always this thought of "what happens when you get to the goal?" How will I keep the weight off? Will I start to eat more? I can't lose weight forever. Sooner or later I will have to find how to "maintain" a healthy weight. I have a lifetime of experience NOT maintaining a healthy weight, but absolutely zero experience keeping any stability. So, this brings me to the concept of "Carbs as a thermostat". It really comes from something that Dr. Jason Fung says in his videos, but it has crept into my consciousness in the past little while. He says that your body can either run on glucose (carbs..and to an extent protein), or fat. When in Ketosis your body is running on fat, because you are severely limiting the intake of foods that produce glucose. This is what I've been doing for the past 3.5 months and the weight has been steadily coming off. So, when I hit my goal weight I think I can just slowly increase my carb intake (healthy stuff like fruit) and thereby begin running on glucose more than on fat. If I notice the scale start to creep up I will know that I need to "dial-down" the carb intake until I find an equilibrium where I neither gain nor lose weight (other than normal day-to-day fluctuations). So, that is my theory on "carbs as a thermostat." I will be interested to hear what you all think and also what your plans are for how to manage your maintenance weight. I know that some of you are there and your input will be helpful. Frankly, the thought scares me because I would hate like hell to lose 125LBS only to gain it back again, again.
In the back of my mind is always this thought of "what happens when you get to the goal?" How will I keep the weight off? Will I start to eat more? I can't lose weight forever. Sooner or later I will have to find how to "maintain" a healthy weight. I have a lifetime of experience NOT maintaining a healthy weight, but absolutely zero experience keeping any stability. So, this brings me to the concept of "Carbs as a thermostat". It really comes from something that Dr. Jason Fung says in his videos, but it has crept into my consciousness in the past little while. He says that your body can either run on glucose (carbs..and to an extent protein), or fat. When in Ketosis your body is running on fat, because you are severely limiting the intake of foods that produce glucose. This is what I've been doing for the past 3.5 months and the weight has been steadily coming off. So, when I hit my goal weight I think I can just slowly increase my carb intake (healthy stuff like fruit) and thereby begin running on glucose more than on fat. If I notice the scale start to creep up I will know that I need to "dial-down" the carb intake until I find an equilibrium where I neither gain nor lose weight (other than normal day-to-day fluctuations). So, that is my theory on "carbs as a thermostat." I will be interested to hear what you all think and also what your plans are for how to manage your maintenance weight. I know that some of you are there and your input will be helpful. Frankly, the thought scares me because I would hate like hell to lose 125LBS only to gain it back again, again.
0
Replies
-
I guess I don't really see it that way. In terms of fuel, yes, you can switch between fat and glucose by changing your diet.
But in terms of weight loss, why are you losing weight now? Why were you gaining weight before?
Whatever your answer (ketones, insulin, hunger, RMR, etc), won't you be going back to weight-gaining mode by switching back?
I assume you've been logging your food and have noticed changes in how you feel. Have you learned anything that makes you want to make a permanent change? Maybe I got lucky, but there was nothing I really wanted to change once I got to maintenance.0 -
If you go back to eating the same amounts you were before, then you will gain back the weight!
My only advice for maintenance is , do not stop counting and logging your food, until you are 100% confident that you won't start calorie creeping. Just keep doing what you're doing now, but you'll probably be able to adjust your macro percentage to be more in line with your maintenance calories.
Personally I don't think I will ever stop counting calories and logging my food here, I enjoy it and keeps me accountable.0 -
I've changed my thinking about everything good related. I've had so much success with low carb and I've never felt better and I don't fight with hunger, unless it's related to artificial sweeteners, that I don't even want those old foods anymore. Not even the "healthy" fruit. I honestly don't think fruit is particularly healthy... But, this past fall, when I would take my kids to different farms for their fall activities, I would have half of a tart Apple if they had them. It didn't give me any issue, being the lowest sugar kind I could find and I didn't have much. But I still got to have a "treat" and enjoy that fall tradition. That's how I feel about fruit. Like its a treat... Candy essentially. I don't need it on a daily basis or even on a weekly basis. It's not for health, it's for treat.
Anyway, I think I have a fairly hard core view on all things sugar though... But I don't miss it, so I have no thoughts about reintroducing it in any form, at any point in the future.0 -
I feel that my body will stop losing once it's reached its ideal weight. I don't plan to change my foods once in maintenance.0
-
-
I know I can't go back to normal. Normal fr me is how I gained weight.
I'll just have to eat weird forever. LOL
I don't really mind (much). I don't think there are many middle-aged women who can eat whatever they want anyways. It's just life. 0 -
0
-
This is essentially what Atkins advocates....going up the carb ladder and seeing how your body tolerates more carbs/different carbs. Some people find they need to remain at 20-30g to maintain weight, keep hunger and cravings at bay, maintain health benefits, etc, while other people can introduce more carbs and/or different carbs and not be impacted. As with most things, I think it is highly individualized. I plan to use the ladder eventually, but I have a long way to go!0
-
I have already had the experience of losing 80 lbs only to gain it all back +70lbs, so I don't plan on changing the way I eat now other than increasing my overall calories, which I'll do at the same macro balance, so I hope to be able to increase my carbs slightly. I can't imagine ever going over 50 g carbs a day, I'll probably stick around 35 g if my body allows, as that provides me with enough veggie carb grams to make a hearty stir fry, throw some tomatoes on my salad, add back in some cauliflower based dishes or make a low carb soup or curry.0
-
I guess I wasn't too clear in my OP. I hope to never return to my old eating habits. If I do the weight will definitely return. I expect that I will eat LCHF for the rest of my days. However, at some point I would like to add a few additional carbs (i.e. fruit and the occasional small tortilla shell). I need to do some additional research on various LCHF recipes to find some additional variety for my daily eating. I feel confident that I won't ever need to consume more than 100g in carbs in any given day and that would be pushing it. At the moment I'm fine at 20g or less, so 50g would be a lot.
I've been really amazed at the lack of cravings since going keto. That's something I've never experienced or expected, so I'm hopeful about the long term prospects.
Its good to hear the feedback from those who have lost 100LBS and kept it off. Gives one hope and motivation. Good work everyone!0 -
Mine wasn't either. The choice shouldn't be restricting more than you're comfortable with vs going back to your old habits.
Another approach might be: experiment now rather than in maintenance. Have you tried a carb budget of 40g instead of 20g, for example? Tried to eat some fruit once in a while?
You know what it feels like to have reduced cravings and a reduced appetite. See if you can keep that mojo going while eating the foods you miss. That way, your weight loss diet will end up being the same as your maintenance diet.
If you can't eat the stuff now, I'm not sure why you'd be able to eat it in maintenance.
Once you hit maintenance, you'll be the same guy you are now. Same metabolism. Same psychological triggers. Maybe a bit hungrier.
If anything, raising your carb intake should be easier now than later (due to the potential changes in leptin and hunger after weight loss).
0 -
It came up in my reading somewhere to listen to your body. It may be that something in your system changes balance at some point in the future and you need more carbs or whatever it may be, so just don't be so committed to your woe that you miss signs your body needs something different for whatever reason. Seems reasonable to keep in mind.0
-
Thanks for those tips. I think that I am still getting used to this WOE. I've been so pleased with the weight loss that I've been a bit scared to toy with my menu. With that said, it def wasn't the apples that got me to 305lbs. LOL. So maybe I will try adding just a small amount (maybe 1/2 of an apple eaten with dinner) and then I will check my ketostix after a couple of hours. I am missing some flavours that aren't meaty, cheesy, eggy, salty...if you know what I mean.0
-
Lols re the apples! Your plan sounds like a good one. I wish this were simpler, but there's so much experimenting to find what works personally. I was successfully LC previously before falling off the wagon (children's birthdays; lethal), and in the meantime I think I was unwittingly influenced by LC naysayers and tried being 'moderate'. But it doesn't work for me, so I'm back on board. Hopefully a bit of apple will fit in your menu. You can definitely have too much strong flavours
Do you go for salads much? 0 -
@doodleswithpencils sadly, I literally hate almost all vegetables and always have. I used to eat some carrots but have cut them out due to high carb content. I will occasionally have some green beans as a side nowadays. Overall this WOE has been very easy for me and fits well with my natural carnivore ways, but one does start to get tired of the same things day in and day out. I just need to experiment with some other LCHF recipes.0
-
I can gain, maintain or lose weight eating LCHF and have done all 3 since Oct 2014.
This WOE is for the rest of my life. I just vary the calories and nothing more for all 3 results. Works for my pea brain. 0 -
I reached my original goal weight not long ago and decided to try losing another 3-5 lbs or so, but I've been thinking a lot about this. I do plan to stay lower-carb long term now (not my original plan but I've been pleased with some of the benefits); not sure if I want to stay in ketosis or not. I might add back in a greater variety of veggies and berries more than once in a blue moon. (Influenced by the Wahls Protocol for MS, which calls for 6-9 cups/day of certain types of fruits and veggies along with a lot of paleo principles.)
I'm not sure if I'll add any grains back in except perhaps on a very limited/occasional basis. I might experiment with certain foods and carb levels and add maybe 50 cals/day every week or two until I seem to find the sweet spot. I have a feeling I might keep carbs somewhere in the 50-80 gm (total) range long-term, but we'll see. When I started this WOE I never planned to stay quite that low-carb long-term but I think I might actually be happier that way! I do understand what you mean though about wanting more variety at times! Thankfully I do like veggies. Have you tried them roasted with evoo, salt and pepper? Roasted curry cauliflower is a favorite of mine.0 -
Yes, don't accept hating all veg until you've tried a bunch of recipes. Have you done what us mothers have done for probably time out of mind and hide them? I know it's probably harder if you're making it yourself and know they're there, but go for the old disguise 'em. Or drown them in butter , or cheese. I recently accidentally converted my marrow-hating husband into a fan of courgettes (zucchinis) by pan frying them in butter. Or was it the courgette fritters, I forget. I am biased; I do like vegetables, but to be fair I was a veg hating child.0
-
I can't figure out how to edit my posts, but to add - I don't mean to preach, only vegetable dishes could broaden your flavour palette if you're getting tired of stronger tasting meals 0
-
doodleswithpencils wrote: »Yes, don't accept hating all veg until you've tried a bunch of recipes. Have you done what us mothers have done for probably time out of mind and hide them? I know it's probably harder if you're making it yourself and know they're there, but go for the old disguise 'em. Or drown them in butter , or cheese. I recently accidentally converted my marrow-hating husband into a fan of courgettes (zucchinis) by pan frying them in butter. Or was it the courgette fritters, I forget. I am biased; I do like vegetables, but to be fair I was a veg hating child.
Actually, now that you mention it I do do this. Oddly enough I can eat any and all veggies if they are in a soup. I think it's b/c the veg takes on the flavour of the broth and become very soft. I've tried a few times to make my own minestrone soup but they've been horrible flops. I seem to be soup challenged. Note to self, try again.
0 -
doodleswithpencils wrote: »Yes, don't accept hating all veg until you've tried a bunch of recipes. Have you done what us mothers have done for probably time out of mind and hide them? I know it's probably harder if you're making it yourself and know they're there, but go for the old disguise 'em.
The book "Deceptively Delicious" is about just that!
http://www.doitdelicious.com/cookbooks/deceptively_delicious
She goes in to adding vegetable puree to a lot of things for her kids, and it's a fun read. Maybe see if the library has it, since I read it back in my pre-keto says so I'm not sure how LC-friendly it is. but the principle is sound for picky eaters.
0 -
daylitemag wrote: »@doodleswithpencils sadly, I literally hate almost all vegetables and always have. I used to eat some carrots but have cut them out due to high carb content. I will occasionally have some green beans as a side nowadays. Overall this WOE has been very easy for me and fits well with my natural carnivore ways, but one does start to get tired of the same things day in and day out. I just need to experiment with some other LCHF recipes.
My husband used to hate veggies too until he met me, his world of veggies consisted of the soggy kind that came out of a can or veg that had been boiled to death. I'd probably hate veg too if I had to eat it that way as it looses all its natural flavour, even steamed veggies are boring and tasteless, though dousing them in clarified butter can help. I find veg tastes best sautéed or roasted in high quality olive oil, coconut oil, clarified butter, goose fat, bacon grease, etc., you get a whole different flavour profile.0 -
There's a recent interview Jimmy Moore did with Dr Ludwig where he talks about insulin resistant and T2D patients being able to have periods of increased carbs after periods of low carb due to improved insulin sensitivity. But he goes on to say that it's short lived as the insulin resistance again becomes an issue. But he's talking about it as being completely ok to plan maybe a few months low carb and one month slightly higher carb and then resume low carb.
Now he's not talking about bread and cupcakes, of course. He's saying some starchy vegetables (but no white potato) and small amounts of fruit. And for the low carb periods, he wasn't even suggesting Keto level was necessary, but he definitely supports the idea that each person has a different tolerance level.
It was a good podcast. I definitely recommend listening to it since you're considering some new foods to be included in the future.
Sorry, I couldn't get you link right now.0 -
That's interesting @Sunny_Bunny_ does he offer any explanation about this? Is he suggesting that the pancreas starts producing insulin on its own again and then stops shortly thereafter? Are the test subjects regaining fat around their pancreas during that period?
I'm very excited to see the results of a larger scale study being done here in the UK to assess the possibility of regaining pancreas function. The small version of this study was quite hopeful, showing that a good percentage of people can regain enough function to start eating some carbs again, though obviously not excessively. It'll be interesting to see how that works out with a larger group.
For me, as a food addict, this woe definitely suits to quell my addictions, so I'll never go back to starches, but it would be nice to be able to go up to 35-50 g carbs again one day w/o have to stick a needle in myself 0 -
Here is the link: https://www.google.co.jp/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjBkJ_e8ufKAhWIsJQKHUJQDgsQFggbMAA&url=http://livinlavidalowcarb.com/blog/the-llvlc-show-episode-1068-dr-david-ludwig-takes-a-closer-look-at-why-we-are-always-hungry/25894&usg=AFQjCNEvsA4s_PQrgPNzzS0L1-aPt6Z3Qw&sig2=lehgnTXsYTIgD5jpn2iwig&bvm=bv.113370389,d.dGo
Basically, Ludwig is middling low carb, high fat -- 40% slow-carbs or so. He also refers to low GI index foods. Insulin sensitive people may not do well on his plan, he says. Book has lots of science for the nerds! I just started reading it.0 -
The basic idea is the same as we already know. That organ fat reduces, returning better beta cell function now that they are not blocked and reduced carbs, therefore reduced insulin, return insulin sensitivity. But that too long spent even at the moderate carb level will induce insulin resistance once again eventually. This is another aspect that varies by person.
He mentions some human studies they did and an a more tightly controlled animal model too.0 -
daylitemag wrote: »Lately I've been thinking about what I will do if I ever get to my long-term goal weight (180-200lbs). I've been at this for more than 30 years and never got down that low. I always end up gaining back whatever I've lost. I hope this change to LCHF will be "the" change that is sustainable for me. I think it may be as I find it really easy, so far.
In the back of my mind is always this thought of "what happens when you get to the goal?" How will I keep the weight off? Will I start to eat more? I can't lose weight forever. Sooner or later I will have to find how to "maintain" a healthy weight. I have a lifetime of experience NOT maintaining a healthy weight, but absolutely zero experience keeping any stability. So, this brings me to the concept of "Carbs as a thermostat". It really comes from something that Dr. Jason Fung says in his videos, but it has crept into my consciousness in the past little while. He says that your body can either run on glucose (carbs..and to an extent protein), or fat. When in Ketosis your body is running on fat, because you are severely limiting the intake of foods that produce glucose. This is what I've been doing for the past 3.5 months and the weight has been steadily coming off. So, when I hit my goal weight I think I can just slowly increase my carb intake (healthy stuff like fruit) and thereby begin running on glucose more than on fat. If I notice the scale start to creep up I will know that I need to "dial-down" the carb intake until I find an equilibrium where I neither gain nor lose weight (other than normal day-to-day fluctuations). So, that is my theory on "carbs as a thermostat." I will be interested to hear what you all think and also what your plans are for how to manage your maintenance weight. I know that some of you are there and your input will be helpful. Frankly, the thought scares me because I would hate like hell to lose 125LBS only to gain it back again, again.
I tried doing this, 2 years ago, after losing a lot of weight on LC and ending up at my goal weight: result: weight gain brought me well over my starting weight and I had to start over again. I know everyone's different, but by now I simply know I need to stay low in carbs. HF is the tool that keeps me there. Frankly, your post reads like justification.0 -
Basically, Ludwig is middling low carb, high fat -- 40% slow-carbs or so. He also refers to low GI index foods. Insulin sensitive people may not do well on his plan, he says. Book has lots of science for the nerds! I just started reading it.
I've looked at some of Ludwig's research. His own research shows that low-carb is more effective than low-GI. So why does he recommend low-GI and a carb ramp up?
If you listen to the podcast, you'll hear him mutter something like "There are 7 billion people on the planet. The only way we can sustain that many people is with carbohydrates."
So it's not all about hunger for him. This is probably the same sort of thinking that drove the dietary guidelines we have today.0
