can we talk training plans?
jacksonpt
Posts: 10,413 Member
background info
First off, I consider myself an intermediate athlete. I've been racing for about 5 years and have a handful of HIM distance races under my belt. I am by no means a "I'm just happy if I finish" guy, but I'm also not threatening the podium.
Next, I'm a fairly typical age-grouper... I have a full time job and a family/kids, all of which put a significant dent in my available free time. Balancing those things with my desire to simply enjoy running/riding (intentionally left out swimming) and my desire to really train can be a problem at times.
Last, the swim is by far my weakest discipline. I can swim a long time (have done several IM swims in training), especially with a wetsuit, but I'm pretty inefficient in the water. Body position isn't great (legs tend to drag), and I breathe to the left with every left stroke. Hopefully that makes sense. Bike is by far my strongest discipline. I've been riding longer than I have been running or swimming, and I enjoy it the most so it's my go-to workout. I'm a decent runner. I'll leave it at that.
Last last, my race success/failure has always been dependent on my run, which seems to be dependent on how hard I go on the bike. Going too hard on the bike has made for more than 1 miserable run, including a DNF. Pacing is something I continue to work on, but is hard to practice.
meat of the post
I'm trying to be a little more intentional about my training. Rather than simply going out for a run or a ride or *gasp* a swim when I have some spare time, I'd like to incorporate some more structured training so my workouts become a bit more effective. I still want to enjoy what I'm doing, or at least have fun be factored into my regimen... so if I'm being completely honest with myself, I'm probably not going to spend much time doing single leg work on the trainer. But hill work outside? Sure.
So I guess my first question is this - What aspects to training make up a decent routine/plan? Is it sufficient to do some sprint/interval work and some longer duration work? I've looked at some generic training plans and some of them are hugely complicated. Some aren't. I'm clearly drawn to the ones that aren't.
Second question - I assume workload should increase over time, but what exactly does that mean? Duration/distance? Intensity? Both?
OK, I think that's enough to get things rolling.
First off, I consider myself an intermediate athlete. I've been racing for about 5 years and have a handful of HIM distance races under my belt. I am by no means a "I'm just happy if I finish" guy, but I'm also not threatening the podium.
Next, I'm a fairly typical age-grouper... I have a full time job and a family/kids, all of which put a significant dent in my available free time. Balancing those things with my desire to simply enjoy running/riding (intentionally left out swimming) and my desire to really train can be a problem at times.
Last, the swim is by far my weakest discipline. I can swim a long time (have done several IM swims in training), especially with a wetsuit, but I'm pretty inefficient in the water. Body position isn't great (legs tend to drag), and I breathe to the left with every left stroke. Hopefully that makes sense. Bike is by far my strongest discipline. I've been riding longer than I have been running or swimming, and I enjoy it the most so it's my go-to workout. I'm a decent runner. I'll leave it at that.
Last last, my race success/failure has always been dependent on my run, which seems to be dependent on how hard I go on the bike. Going too hard on the bike has made for more than 1 miserable run, including a DNF. Pacing is something I continue to work on, but is hard to practice.
meat of the post
I'm trying to be a little more intentional about my training. Rather than simply going out for a run or a ride or *gasp* a swim when I have some spare time, I'd like to incorporate some more structured training so my workouts become a bit more effective. I still want to enjoy what I'm doing, or at least have fun be factored into my regimen... so if I'm being completely honest with myself, I'm probably not going to spend much time doing single leg work on the trainer. But hill work outside? Sure.
So I guess my first question is this - What aspects to training make up a decent routine/plan? Is it sufficient to do some sprint/interval work and some longer duration work? I've looked at some generic training plans and some of them are hugely complicated. Some aren't. I'm clearly drawn to the ones that aren't.
Second question - I assume workload should increase over time, but what exactly does that mean? Duration/distance? Intensity? Both?
OK, I think that's enough to get things rolling.
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Replies
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What is your goal? Do you have a goal race to work towards? The answer to that question is needed before you can really pinpoint what kind of work you do. On the rough surface a decent training plan brings up your volume and intensity in a manner that is appropriate to the goal race. A good plan breaks things into blocks of a few weeks each with a "down" week every once in a while.
For your second question, again it depends on the first. If you are targeting short course races, then your increase in workload very well might be more intensity rather than more time. But if you tell me you are targeting an Ironman, your going to be spending more time simply "going" than "going hard".0 -
The gradual build followed by periodic "recovery" weeks lines up week with what I know from lifting.
My A race this year is IM 70.3 Atlantic City... goal is sub 6 hours.0 -
Also, centering your training on intensity vs duration based on a goal race distance makes a lot of sense. I think I need to make more of an effort to get in some longer, mid-level intensity workouts this year. Shorter, more intense workout are easy for me... the longer ones that require more time require more planning.0
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My situation is somewhat similar to yours, in that I'm in my third year of racing and swimming is my biggest limiter. I probably have a bit more free time, given that my kids are older. I also noticed that my "A" race goal is similar to yours this season: Sub 6 hours in the Timberman 70.3. (That's a tall order, given a 6:42 finish in my first attempt). Also similar is that I struggled with bike pacing and it cost me quite a bit on the run. I"m a 1:55ish standalone HM runner, and my Timberman run split was close to 2:40. (OUCH, even hurts to type that number!)
With that in mind, here's my plan- posting simply as a strawman to see if any of it resonates for you. Also, I'm sure the more knowledgeable folks may have comments that could help both of us
Winter Base work: Swim/bike focused - no running, since I'm rehabbing a calf issue.
Four short swims per week (one with a coach) all focused on stroke improvement, as opposed to endurance.
Three 3 bike sessions ( 2 x'sTrainerRoad Sweet Spot Base Low Volume at home, plus 1 90 minute trainer ride in a class at LBS)
One Yoga class and One Strength Class w/Personal Trainer.
When I begin the build for the HIM in August, I will follow Matt Fitzgerald's Super Simple 16 week HIM training plan. It IS simple: 3 bikes, 3 runs, 3 swims over 6 days with Mondays as a rest day.
For example, last year's weekly routine was something like this:
Monday off, Tues: bike, Wed: swim am/run pm, Thurs: bike, Fri: swim/run. These workouts started out with very modest distances and often included a higher intensity effort inside one of the workouts in each discipline every week. They plan quickly ramped up in distance as it reached week 5 or so.
SAT and SUN were the longer days. Saturday was a longer bike ride(often w/short transition run off the bike) and on Sundays a longer swim/run. As GLevinso noted, the plan uses Periodization, with a building volume in the first three weeks of each block, followed by a recovery week every fourth week, in which volume is reduced over the previous week.
Finally, I'm trying to get much more focused on both developing biking fitness and understanding bike pacing, so that this year I ride the bike segment that I SHOULD do, NOT the bike segment that I COULD do.
Maybe something in here is useful for you. Hope so.
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There are definitely some similarities between us. I also run a just barely sub-2hr HM, and turned in a 2:45ish run split at last year's IM 70.3 Syracuse. My best run split is a 2:01, though that was on a pretty flat course. Not surprisingly, that also corresponds to my HIM PR (5:46).
I've also looked at the Super Simple training plan.
What I'd like to be able to do is something like the following -
swim -
2 days per week, lap swim
I can do drills as needed, just need to force myself to get in the pool
bike -
2 days per week. once on the trainer, the other can be outside if/when weather allows.
Trainer time can be very workout specific, or I can put on a movie and just zone out if I need a longer, low intensity session. Outside can vary... for now it's mountain biking, anywhere from 45-90 minutes depending. Road bike is still put away for the winter. Once the weather changes, I can do 1 long ride every other week.
run -
2 days per week, play basketball. We can call that high intensity and/or interval work towards my tri training. 1 day per week - long run outside. I can cut basketball back to once per week and get in 2 outdoor runs, but it's something I really enjoy and would like to leave as part of my overall routine.
Each of those things I can do without much problem. Packing them all in and getting them all done each week will be the challenge... both logistically and physically. This will be a meaningful increase in overall training volume, so recovery is something I need to consider.
As far as available time goes, I can usually guarantee an hour on my lunch break. Considering I work at a gym, this makes it easy to swim and do short-to-mid distance runs. Aside from my lunch break, all other time is at my family's mercy. I am willing to get up early as needed a couple of times per week, but even that can be subject to change based on my kids' schedules. I guess what I'm saying is that I'm willing to get up at 5:30 for a workout, but not at 3:30.0 -
IMAC. Nice. I will be there spectating (my wife and a number of my friends are racing it). I did it's predecessor race, Challenge AC twice (full both times)0
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So when I am targeting a half as an A-race I do a lot of LT work on the bike, and my long rides are done at high-endurance. My weekday rides would have 20 minute intervals as close to LT as I can hold it. Also a bunch of 3 minute-ish intervals at SuperLT.
Run training is similar in that my mid-week runs might not be longer than an hour and my intervals never get longer than a mile. Long runs on the weekends are all done at a reasonably fast speed.
For Ironman, by contrast, my mid-week bike intervals are more sub-LT and the long rides are in the mid-endurance range. Run intervals could very well be 5k (3x5k for instance), and the mid-week runs get to 1:30. Long runs alternate between shorter/faster (16 miles at faster pace) and longer/slower (22 miles at around Ironman run pace, which is usually a pace that people do marathon long runs)0 -
Each of those things I can do without much problem. Packing them all in and getting them all done each week will be the challenge... both logistically and physically. This will be a meaningful increase in overall training volume, so recovery is something I need to consider.
...... I am willing to get up early as needed a couple of times per week, but even that can be subject to change based on my kids' schedules. I guess what I'm saying is that I'm willing to get up at 5:30 for a workout, but not at 3:30.
I found that after week 4 of the program last year, I needed to drop the weekly strength session with my trainer, and by week 7 or 8, I even cut out the Yoga. I needed a solid rest day each week. At 58 years old, recovery time is key to preventing injury and allowing me to build volume. Now, as far as training times, I did workouts each morning, with the double session days typically a morning swim and run after work. Weekends were a bit different, since the workouts were longer and I had more flexibility with my time.0 -
So when I am targeting a half as an A-race I do a lot of LT work on the bike, and my long rides are done at high-endurance. My weekday rides would have 20 minute intervals as close to LT as I can hold it. Also a bunch of 3 minute-ish intervals at SuperLT.
Run training is similar in that my mid-week runs might not be longer than an hour and my intervals never get longer than a mile. Long runs on the weekends are all done at a reasonably fast speed.
For Ironman, by contrast, my mid-week bike intervals are more sub-LT and the long rides are in the mid-endurance range. Run intervals could very well be 5k (3x5k for instance), and the mid-week runs get to 1:30. Long runs alternate between shorter/faster (16 miles at faster pace) and longer/slower (22 miles at around Ironman run pace, which is usually a pace that people do marathon long runs)
This is helpful, thanks.0 -
Having kinda watched what it is you do over the past couple years here is how I'd set you up.
Swim 2 days a week. Start with 1 form and 1 endurance swim per week and transition to 1 really hard interval day and 1 endurance swim once you get your groove back in the pool. Yes you could make incremental gains swimming more, but the ROI of time in the pool vs. time cycling doesn't favor swimming a ton.
Bike 4 days a week. Two days 45 minute to 1 hour sessions of short/hard intervals, 1 day of longer (15 to 20 minute) 70.3 race paced intervals, 1 long ride to work on endurance.
Run 3-4 days a week. I believe in periodizing your training so you'd be focused on either base, strength, speed, etc. for your runs so the focus of the runs would change every 4 or so weeks, but 1 long run for sure, 1 run off the long bike. I always have my guys use their long rides as fueling practice. A short 35 minute brick will help you learn to get your HR/faculties under control coming off the bike and let you know if your nutrition plan is sitting well in your stomach once you get off the bike. Then you can play with the other 1-2 runs per week. Could be strides, could be tempo, could be hill repeats, could be mile to 5k repeats, just depends on the focus of the training block.0 -
Also lift 2-3 times a week. HEAVY compounds. 3 x 3-6 or 5 x 3-6 depending on how you're recovering.0
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scott091501 wrote: »Having kinda watched what it is you do over the past couple years here is how I'd set you up.
Swim 2 days a week. Start with 1 form and 1 endurance swim per week and transition to 1 really hard interval day and 1 endurance swim once you get your groove back in the pool. Yes you could make incremental gains swimming more, but the ROI of time in the pool vs. time cycling doesn't favor swimming a ton.
Bike 4 days a week. Two days 45 minute to 1 hour sessions of short/hard intervals, 1 day of longer (15 to 20 minute) 70.3 race paced intervals, 1 long ride to work on endurance.
Run 3-4 days a week. I believe in periodizing your training so you'd be focused on either base, strength, speed, etc. for your runs so the focus of the runs would change every 4 or so weeks, but 1 long run for sure, 1 run off the long bike. I always have my guys use their long rides as fueling practice. A short 35 minute brick will help you learn to get your HR/faculties under control coming off the bike and let you know if your nutrition plan is sitting well in your stomach once you get off the bike. Then you can play with the other 1-2 runs per week. Could be strides, could be tempo, could be hill repeats, could be mile to 5k repeats, just depends on the focus of the training block.
Thanks, that is also helpful.0 -
My big picture take-away from all this is that I really do need to be more focused/purposeful with my workouts. I can't just spin for 90 minutes while watching TV or run for an hour around town at whatever pace my RPE gives that day.
I've got some good suggestions on types and frequency of workouts... I just have to figure out what I can reasonably do each week based on my schedule (and to some extent, my level of commitment).0 -
If you're not willing to find a coach, which having 3 kids and 2 jobs I totally get the financial implications of a coach, find a well respected plan like Be Iron Fit. Trust the plan, maybe tweak it a bit, but trust the plan.
The problem you're going to have is finding someone or a plan that will/can balance your love of lifting with 70.3 training. On the other hand the benefit of a good coach is that they'll take the time you have available and make the most efficient use of it and hold you accountable. Just food for thought.0 -
great thread, following.0
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I've been mulling over a plan for the last week or so, and that's part of what prompted this thread... trying to figure out what I needed to do, what I could probably pass on, and if/how I could work in things I enjoy as part of my weekly routine.
I was going off the idea that I would be well served to do 2 workouts each week for each discipline - 1 higher intensity/shorter duration workout, and 1 lower intensity/longer duration.
swimming would be pretty straight forward... 1 interval session, 1 endurance.
biking would vary based on the weather... mountain biking, hill work, or trainer workouts could all be viewed as higher intensity, while a I could do a long mindless spin or a longer outdoor road ride for my endurance workout.
Running would also vary, perhaps even more so than biking. I'd like to continue to play pick-up basketball once or twice a week, and would treat that as higher intensity invterval-ish work. I can also do intervals on the track or run bleachers. If I really hated myself I could probably do hill repeats. Endurance running would be my normal longer distance, easier pace running.
Based on my schedule, it would look something like this -- Monday - run, intensity (basketball on my lunch break)
- Tuesday - bike, intensity (trainer work in the morning before kids wake up) ... swim, endurance (lap swim on my lunch break
- Wednesday - bike/run brick after work with local tri club
- Thursday - swim, intensity (pool intervals on my lunch break) ... run, endurance (long run after work)
- Friday - run, intensity (basketball on my lunch break)
- Weekend - bike, endurance (some type of longer ride)
The bike workouts could be moved around depending on my schedule and the weather... and everything is subject to family and work priorities, but that would be my plan.
I then took it 1 step farther. My A race this year is a HIM, so based on HIM distances, and the idea of increasing training distance 10% weekly, I mapped out a 12 week plan for my endurance workout distances. I wouldn't be doing meaningful distances until week 6 or so, which would hopefully give my body time to adapt to the increased training load.
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i don't know if i have anything really meaningful to add at the moment, except to remember to not let the tail wag the dog.
you've said you have other priorities besides training, e.g. your kids and work. so if you have to miss a workout because of those, miss it. in any training plan, your goal should be to complete 90% of your workouts. so if you miss one or even two once a while, no big deal. just don't always be skipping the one you really need to work on.0
