Gaining weight. Feeling awful. (women's health related - fair warning!)
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auntstephie321 wrote: »I'm happy that it was able to help you. I don't think its the cure all for ever hormone issue in all woman and is widely over prescribed for those who do not need it.
It also increases risk of depression anxiety and stroke. Our bodies are designed to ovulate if that is causing issues then they need to research why that is happening not just slap a band aid on it and say here supplement these hormones and you'll be fine. There are other answers.
@auntstephie321 , our bodies are designed to ovulate - we just weren't supposed to live as long as we do now... Prolonged ovulation without intermission of pregnancy is actually problematic...
That being said...Dragonwolf wrote: »lithezebra wrote: »
Every woman has to consider her own risk of blood clots. Women who don't smoke, and have no predisposing health factors or history of blood clots, who take the usual low dose pill, have very little risk of stroke. The pill I ended up taking helped my depression, after trying one that made it worse. There are many formulations of the pill, and there really isn't something less invasive for someone who suffers from a variety of painful reproductive issues.auntstephie321 wrote: »I'm happy that it was able to help you. I don't think its the cure all for ever hormone issue in all woman and is widely over prescribed for those who do not need it.
It also increases risk of depression anxiety and stroke. Our bodies are designed to ovulate if that is causing issues then they need to research why that is happening not just slap a band aid on it and say here supplement these hormones and you'll be fine. There are other answers.
PCOS is one of those painful issues, that involves the reproductive system, although it is also much more than that.
Diet, though it's something that takes a lot more work than a lot of people are willing to do (especially since it generally requires deprogramming the whole "healthy whole grains" and "women need carbs" stuff), and the effects aren't always immediate. However, as a woman who has battled with PCOS for a decade and neither birth control nor Metformin has helped for any length of time (and made things, overall, worse), I can tell you that diet is an option and is nowhere near invasive.
The fact that PCOS is, indeed, much more than a reproductive issue is exactly why I disagree with such liberal and mindless prescription of birth control pills to women with it.lithezebra wrote: »Birth control pills are actually an excellent way to deal with a number of women's reproductive health issues, less problematic than taking other hormones, and they lower your risk of ovarian cancer substantially. If you're having a problem with the one you were on, there are other versions, and other dosages you could try.
Not as a front-line, no-questions-asked intervention, in my opinion, and that's where I have a problem with how it's handled, because it doesn't actually address the cause.
Oh, have acne? Here, take the Pill. Bad cramps? The Pill. PCOS? The Pill. The problem that I have with it is that it simply masks the symptoms, instead of addressing the underlying cause, and because the symptoms go away, the doctors don't bother with anything else, allowing the underlying cause to continue its damage.
Then, the woman comes in a decade later, and her thyroid's shot, she has diabetes, and 100 excess pounds on her. She also believes that she's permanently infertile (and the doctor agrees).
When she's 50, she's already got osteoporosis and her latest mammogram shows signs of breast cancer, while the pap smear shows signs of uterine cancer. What she doesn't know at all, is that her depression and gallbladder removal were connected. All because she's been estrogen dominant for the past 30 years, but her doctor just threw a pack of pills at her and didn't bother to do anything else.
OMG, you just hit something on the head for me, @Dragonwolf. I'd had no idea that my gallbladder issue could have been a result of estrogen dominance. That's definitely on the list of things to address with my Endo next month!0 -
That's like saying you shouldn't treat HIV because the meds that keep people alive for decades don't address the cause of the disease. That's the way it is when you have endometriosis, PCOS, or a host of other diseases that are manageable, not curable. Treatment minimizes damage and suffering.Dragonwolf wrote: »
Not as a front-line, no-questions-asked intervention, in my opinion, and that's where I have a problem with how it's handled, because it doesn't actually address the cause.
I tried all the useless diets for treating endometriosis and fibroids.
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lithezebra wrote: »
That's like saying you shouldn't treat HIV because the meds that keep people alive for decades don't address the cause of the disease. That's the way it is when you have endometriosis, PCOS, or a host of other diseases that are manageable, not curable. Treatment minimizes damage and suffering.Dragonwolf wrote: »
Not as a front-line, no-questions-asked intervention, in my opinion, and that's where I have a problem with how it's handled, because it doesn't actually address the cause.
I tried all the useless diets for treating endometriosis and fibroids.
PCOS is "curable" in the same sense that Diabetes is (see Dr. Jason Fung's work; most won't say "cured," simply because going back to the ways that caused the disordered state will bring it back; but maintaining a lifestyle that doesn't cause the disordered state will bring the body back to the non-disordered state and will respond to acute stimuli in pretty much the same way as a body that was not disordered to begin with).
Also, PCOS and other hormonal disorders are noncommunicable, while HIV is a virus. Your HIV analogy doesn't really hold water, because HIV is the underlying cause, for which the first line of treatment is retrovirals, which have been studied and are currently the best defense we have against a viral infection in general, and which directly attack the underlying cause.
And, again, the problem is that it masks the symptoms. At least Metformin and Spiro attempt to address one of the underlying issues and break the vicious cycle of insulin resistance -> estrogen dominance -> testosterone excess. Since nearly all forms of birth control are primarily estrogen (some exclusively so), you might get lucky on the relatively few women who are low on estrogen to raise it up, but for the rest of them, you're just pumping extra estrogen into their body, exacerbating the existing estrogen dominance, and appearing to fix the issue, because the "periods" are "normalized" (even though the "periods" on the standard pill aren't actual periods, and they're "normalized" due to the controlled withdrawal of the active pill). Additionally, birth control is very often prescribed without the doctor even running the proper tests, or worse, any tests.
It largely comes back to knowing the actual purpose of the treatment being given, and how it works. Birth control can be used to make periods manageable and predictable, yes, but should not be for no-other-questions-asked "control" or "management" of hormonal issues in general.0 -
Dragonwolf wrote: »lithezebra wrote: »
That's like saying you shouldn't treat HIV because the meds that keep people alive for decades don't address the cause of the disease. That's the way it is when you have endometriosis, PCOS, or a host of other diseases that are manageable, not curable. Treatment minimizes damage and suffering.Dragonwolf wrote: »
Not as a front-line, no-questions-asked intervention, in my opinion, and that's where I have a problem with how it's handled, because it doesn't actually address the cause.
I tried all the useless diets for treating endometriosis and fibroids.
And, again, the problem is that it masks the symptoms. At least Metformin and Spiro attempt to address one of the underlying issues and break the vicious cycle of insulin resistance -> estrogen dominance -> testosterone excess. Since nearly all forms of birth control are primarily estrogen (some exclusively so), you might get lucky on the relatively few women who are low on estrogen to raise it up, but for the rest of them, you're just pumping extra estrogen into their body, exacerbating the existing estrogen dominance, and appearing to fix the issue, because the "periods" are "normalized" (even though the "periods" on the standard pill aren't actual periods, and they're "normalized" due to the controlled withdrawal of the active pill). Additionally, birth control is very often prescribed without the doctor even running the proper tests, or worse, any tests.
It largely comes back to knowing the actual purpose of the treatment being given, and how it works. Birth control can be used to make periods manageable and predictable, yes, but should not be for no-other-questions-asked "control" or "management" of hormonal issues in general.
Low dose birth control pills don't increase estrogen. BC pills reduce estrogen, essentially by tricking the body into thinking it's pregnant, with a continuous low dose of estrogen, which prevents the high levels of estrogen that cause a surge in luteinizing hormone and follicle stimulating hormone, which trigger ovulation. I don't have PCOS, however the BC pill that I took, and the hormone replacement that I take, contain a Spiro analog as the progesterone replacement. Thus BC pills are usually not estrogen only, and they do address estrogen dominance, very effectively, by reducing estrogen production. That is why they work for endometriosis, fibroids, and heavy bleeding, conditions that are made worse by high levels of estrogen.
Don't believe me: https://www.google.com/#q=birth+control+pill+fibroids
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auntstephie321 wrote: »I'm happy that it was able to help you. I don't think its the cure all for ever hormone issue in all woman and is widely over prescribed for those who do not need it.
It also increases risk of depression anxiety and stroke. Our bodies are designed to ovulate if that is causing issues then they need to research why that is happening not just slap a band aid on it and say here supplement these hormones and you'll be fine. There are other answers.
Unfortunately the side effects of the pill are very real. I was on BC from age 16 to 28. I loved the freedom from pain and the period regularity. However, when I changed pills at 27, 9 months later, my brain was so full of blood clots that my neurologist couldn't believe I hadn't had a massive stroke.
I would never tell a woman not to use BC, but I do think it's important to do a real risk assessment with your doc when making the decision. I always figured it would happen to someone else, not to me. I'm just lucky that my doctor took me really seriously when I told him my headaches weren't normal.0 -
PaleoInScotland wrote: »auntstephie321 wrote: »I'm happy that it was able to help you. I don't think its the cure all for ever hormone issue in all woman and is widely over prescribed for those who do not need it.
It also increases risk of depression anxiety and stroke. Our bodies are designed to ovulate if that is causing issues then they need to research why that is happening not just slap a band aid on it and say here supplement these hormones and you'll be fine. There are other answers.
Unfortunately the side effects of the pill are very real. I was on BC from age 16 to 28. I loved the freedom from pain and the period regularity. However, when I changed pills at 27, 9 months later, my brain was so full of blood clots that my neurologist couldn't believe I hadn't had a massive stroke.
I would never tell a woman not to use BC, but I do think it's important to do a real risk assessment with your doc when making the decision. I always figured it would happen to someone else, not to me. I'm just lucky that my doctor took me really seriously when I told him my headaches weren't normal.
Oh my goodness, thank God for your Dr. That's really scary.0 -
@Panda_Poptarts how are you feeling0
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Dragonwolf wrote: »I got some gnarly eczema and what may have even been dermatitis herpetiformis (the kind some Celiacs get) that didn't heal until I quit grains again for several weeks.
Interesting that you mention eczema. My son's first reaction to a severe dairy allergy was horrible eczema as an infant.
I've had a flare up of eczema on my scalp, knuckles, legs, and elbows. It's manageable but my skin is dry and scaley where it usually isn't. Possible food reaction?0 -
lithezebra wrote: »Which pill were you taking? Some of them have a mild potassium sparing diuretic effect, and if you went off one of those, you would notice more water retention.
Birth control pills are actually an excellent way to deal with a number of women's reproductive health issues, less problematic than taking other hormones, and they lower your risk of ovarian cancer substantially. If you're having a problem with the one you were on, there are other versions, and other dosages you could try.
I've tried so many. I've joked that I've given just about every form of BC a go in the past 10 years. My most recent (past year-ish) has been Ocella. It's one of the only ones that doesn't make me throw up, although those effects were starting to creep up with the diet change.0 -
auntstephie321 wrote: »Not everyone needs to consistently take pills so their bodies function properly so why is everyone directed that way? $$$$$$$
I met with my doctor on Wednesday, and informed him that I went off all my meds. He tried to inch me back towards the BC with questions like "HOW regular are you?" when I informed him my cycle regularity had improved. I informed him that I bleed like a normal person, rather than having heavy, debilitating periods, and refused the meds. I don't get why a 5-7 day variation in cycle length from month to month is enough to take pills, when other nasty side effects of PCOS have decreased since getting my ovary out.0 -
lithezebra wrote: »Here are some of the reasons that my hormones needed to be regulated:
I can relate to the super heavy bleeding and chronic pain. There are absolutely reasons to take the pill, I just don't think it's for everyone. Fortunately, having some of my equipment removed has had a major impact on my overall reproductive function, and I'm feeling great. But, a year ago, not being on BC would have been impossible just due to symptoms.
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auntstephie321 wrote: »@Panda_Poptarts how are you feeling
Less bloated
Still up 2 pounds, but that may just be 2lb that don't want to go away. Headaches and nausea have been pretty cruddy intermittently the past few days. I think some of this may be related to stress.0 -
Panda_Poptarts wrote: »auntstephie321 wrote: »@Panda_Poptarts how are you feeling
Less bloated
Still up 2 pounds, but that may just be 2lb that don't want to go away. Headaches and nausea have been pretty cruddy intermittently the past few days. I think some of this may be related to stress.
Stress can throw a lot of things off. Hopefully that will pass soon, fingers crossed.0 -
auntstephie321 wrote: »Panda_Poptarts wrote: »auntstephie321 wrote: »@Panda_Poptarts how are you feeling
Less bloated
Still up 2 pounds, but that may just be 2lb that don't want to go away. Headaches and nausea have been pretty cruddy intermittently the past few days. I think some of this may be related to stress.
Stress can throw a lot of things off. Hopefully that will pass soon, fingers crossed.
I'm hoping so!
I'm waiting for results from blood work. 0 -
I really think you need a new Dr!!! I also have pcos. I had Drs push the pill on me for years. I tried so many it was ridiculous. The side effects for me were worse than the symptoms. I understand it may help many but it sure didn't help me.
Met regulated my periods better than the pill during my two long trials. It however had me requiring b 12 shots. Neither prevented or eventually shrunk my fibroids and cysts as they showed up. I'm 45 and had some pre cancer stuff and ended up with a hysterectomy. I also had endo, ando, cysts and fibroids. A uterine lining that was ridicuously thick despite heavy bleeding.
I now have one ovary. I have predictable pms symptoms every month. So obviously no pill or meds did not cause menopause. When I asked the specialist what she felt caused all these issues to occur she said hormones.I wanted to know why modern women had all these issues. I asked what hormones. Mine or the ones pumped into me from meds, foods etc. I got one heck of an education from her!!!! Sure wish I had met that Dr when I was young!! It would have changed a lot and probably have let me avoid major surgery! I think it's a shame the Drs are frequently just pill pushers instead of getting to the bottom of why.0 -
Panda_Poptarts wrote: »Dragonwolf wrote: »I got some gnarly eczema and what may have even been dermatitis herpetiformis (the kind some Celiacs get) that didn't heal until I quit grains again for several weeks.
Interesting that you mention eczema. My son's first reaction to a severe dairy allergy was horrible eczema as an infant.
I've had a flare up of eczema on my scalp, knuckles, legs, and elbows. It's manageable but my skin is dry and scaley where it usually isn't. Possible food reaction?
It's possible. Definitely worth kicking out a suspicious food for a month (in my experience, it takes at least 2 weeks of 100% compliance for it to start healing and a month to clear 90% or more).I really think you need a new Dr!!! I also have pcos. I had Drs push the pill on me for years. I tried so many it was ridiculous. The side effects for me were worse than the symptoms. I understand it may help many but it sure didn't help me.
Met regulated my periods better than the pill during my two long trials. It however had me requiring b 12 shots. Neither prevented or eventually shrunk my fibroids and cysts as they showed up. I'm 45 and had some pre cancer stuff and ended up with a hysterectomy. I also had endo, ando, cysts and fibroids. A uterine lining that was ridicuously thick despite heavy bleeding.
I now have one ovary. I have predictable pms symptoms every month. So obviously no pill or meds did not cause menopause. When I asked the specialist what she felt caused all these issues to occur she said hormones.I wanted to know why modern women had all these issues. I asked what hormones. Mine or the ones pumped into me from meds, foods etc. I got one heck of an education from her!!!! Sure wish I had met that Dr when I was young!! It would have changed a lot and probably have let me avoid major surgery! I think it's a shame the Drs are frequently just pill pushers instead of getting to the bottom of why.
Unfortunately, a lot of it has to do with medical culture. Insurance pressures doctors, especially those on the front lines -- PCPs, gynos, etc -- to see as many patients as humanly possible. I read somewhere that dealing with insurance alone requires about $80k a year in resources. That's just dealing with patient insurance, and not including all the other expenses and the insurances that the doctors have to have. Combine that with the way a lot of doctors were trained to be authoritarian and the painfully slow rate of change on practices and opinions, and it quickly becomes clear as to why the medical industry in a great many ways hasn't seem to have advanced past the Middle Ages.0
