"Cheat" Days - i.e. High Carb Days
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midwesterner85 wrote: »So today I'm really craving McDonald's - specifically some double cheeseburgers and a shamrock shake.
If you go to McDonald's, I strongly recommend that you have your double cheeseburgers protein style (with NO Bun and/or wrapped in a lettuce leaf) and that you avoid the Shamrock Shake. Make a healthy version of it at home with: 4-6 tablespoons heavy whipping cream, 3 ounces ice cubes, 1-2 tablespoons unflavored protein powder (or perhaps you have a low carb mint-flavored protein powder that you like?), 1 tablespoon olive oil (trust me here), dash of guar or xanthan gum (1/8 teaspoon), peppermint extract (1 teaspoon) and a couple drops of green food coloring. It will taste good and your body will be MUCH happier with you. It will allow you to indulge your craving while simultaneously allowing you to stay on track where your weight-loss efforts are concerned. Win-win.
That's a terrific recommendation! It won't wreck your efforts or your health.0 -
I can't handle something that sugary anymore; makes me sick. I've done low carb for a while (though I'm relatively new to keto) and I've made several LC versions of shamrock shakes that were really yummy and totally satisfied the craving.
@ladipoet what if you did coconut oil instead of the olive oil? I'm intrigued why the olive oil.0 -
@macchiato....yes, you can easily sub in coconut oil instead of olive oil. The only caveat with using coconut oil in a shake is that if you make the smoothie say the night/day before you plan on on having it and put it in the fridge overnight, the coconut oil will solidify and ruin your cold shake because then you have to heat it up in the morning to melt it and who wants a warm/hot shake? If you use coconut oil, I suggest you plan on having the shake immediately instead of trying to refrigerate for later consumption. I like a little bit of olive oil in my smoothies because it has higher monounsaturated fat (MUFA) content than HWC (so different type of healthy fat) than just 100% full-on saturated fat. Also the guar and/or xanthan gum helps keep the olive oil suspended so it doesn't separate from the smoothie mix like oil and water normally do. Also, the olive oil won't solidify in the fridge if you plan on having the shake in a day or two. I usually prefer olive oil to coconut oil in my smoothies because, believe it or not, I am not a fan of coconut flavored anything (heresy, I know)! lol I see I forgot to mention that you should use whatever liquid or granular sugar substitute sweetener you prefer to taste.0
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Ah, good to know. Thank you for explaining! That makes sense. I usually drink my shakes right away but I'll keep that in mind.0
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Sunny_Bunny_ wrote: »When were you diagnosed?
I just caught that you said you have both T1D and T2D. I'm assuming you were T1D and through insulin and high carb diet, aquired insulin resistance that then required more insulin to effectively control BG, creating hyperinsulinemia like with T2D, and progressing further. But I'm surprised you actually got a T2D diagnosis. My daughters Endo barely acknowledges her insulin resistance and the educators are very much against her low carbing. So stupid!
Anyway, I seriously think you're playing with fire with any thoughts of allowing these kinds of cheats. Insulin is not the answer. Of course you can take insulin to cover carbs, you've done that right? How'd that work out?
I'm sorry to be harsh, but I honestly think 100g carbs from all vegetables is even too much. You're going to chip away very very slowly at better health that way. And throw in cheats covered by insulin... Recipe for disaster.
I want you to succeed and that's why I'm taking a tough love attitude here. I just had the artificial sweetener talk with my daughter. Asking her to cut back on diet sodas and water flavorings. And that's not even real sugar. Her sugar cravings have gotten better quickly at less than 50g, but to get real improvement, it takes an understanding of what that stuff actually does in your body once it's in there. And all for what? A few minutes of tasting something good? So not worth it!
Yes, that is basically what happened. I was diagnosed with type 1 in 1995. In the first month, I gained 20 lbs. The rate of gain slowed over time... in the first year, I gained 60 lbs. Within a few years, I had gained more than 100 lbs. and was having serious BG challenges. The endocrinologist I was seeing at the time did a multi-day inpatient test to determine just how resistant I was to insulin. After that, I was diagnosed with type 2 diabetes. That was before it was common... now it even has a name (though it isn't technically a diagnosis) - "double diabetes."
For decades, I've taken insulin for carbs. I still do, of course. It works quite well. The only issue is timing. Unlike someone with functioning beta cells, I absorb food quickly and injected insulin acts slowly. So for a couple hours (25% of the time if you figure 2 hours and 3 meals per day) at least, BG is elevated. 100g for now is do-able most days. Today, I did not go to McDonald's so I didn't give into that craving.0 -
Wtg on not giving in on the cravings. You now have me wanting to try this shamrock shake thing. I found a recipe to make a keto friendly version.
I wonder if @PaleoInScotland can offer any advice on the insulin stuff. I know she's had some great success lowering the amount needed with low carb0 -
Well, you have to take insulin regardless if you are eating carbs or not, of course. Which does make things that much more challenging. As far as timing, don't you just inject when you eat and for corrections as needed? That part I don't understand.midwesterner85 wrote: »Sunny_Bunny_ wrote: »When were you diagnosed?
I just caught that you said you have both T1D and T2D. I'm assuming you were T1D and through insulin and high carb diet, aquired insulin resistance that then required more insulin to effectively control BG, creating hyperinsulinemia like with T2D, and progressing further. But I'm surprised you actually got a T2D diagnosis. My daughters Endo barely acknowledges her insulin resistance and the educators are very much against her low carbing. So stupid!
Anyway, I seriously think you're playing with fire with any thoughts of allowing these kinds of cheats. Insulin is not the answer. Of course you can take insulin to cover carbs, you've done that right? How'd that work out?
I'm sorry to be harsh, but I honestly think 100g carbs from all vegetables is even too much. You're going to chip away very very slowly at better health that way. And throw in cheats covered by insulin... Recipe for disaster.
I want you to succeed and that's why I'm taking a tough love attitude here. I just had the artificial sweetener talk with my daughter. Asking her to cut back on diet sodas and water flavorings. And that's not even real sugar. Her sugar cravings have gotten better quickly at less than 50g, but to get real improvement, it takes an understanding of what that stuff actually does in your body once it's in there. And all for what? A few minutes of tasting something good? So not worth it!
Yes, that is basically what happened. I was diagnosed with type 1 in 1995. In the first month, I gained 20 lbs. The rate of gain slowed over time... in the first year, I gained 60 lbs. Within a few years, I had gained more than 100 lbs. and was having serious BG challenges. The endocrinologist I was seeing at the time did a multi-day inpatient test to determine just how resistant I was to insulin. After that, I was diagnosed with type 2 diabetes. That was before it was common... now it even has a name (though it isn't technically a diagnosis) - "double diabetes."
For decades, I've taken insulin for carbs. I still do, of course. It works quite well. The only issue is timing. Unlike someone with functioning beta cells, I absorb food quickly and injected insulin acts slowly. So for a couple hours (25% of the time if you figure 2 hours and 3 meals per day) at least, BG is elevated. 100g for now is do-able most days. Today, I did not go to McDonald's so I didn't give into that craving.
Have you ever tried an insulin pump? My daughter began using hers again after a miserable attempt a couple years ago. This time she's doing it while eating a Ketogenic diet and the goal is to figure out the right basal rate and almost eliminate any meal bolus. There will always be need for corrections due to normal stress glycogen release, but can't do a whole lot about that.
Anyway, she so far has gone from over 100 units a day of fast acting insulin to around 25-35. She has had to lower the basal rate and increase her insulin to carb ratio due to gaining better sensitivity. It's been a little over a month. She is still having some complications associated with having very high blood sugar for so long and suddenly being in perfect range. I wish I had known that we should have brought her blood sugar more slowly over time, but the pump educator didn't mention that and doesn't even recognize there's anything wrong with gaining 20 pounds of water weight in 3 days or suddenly developing neuropathy you never had before... All ages concerned about the DKA that there will not happen due to low carb eating. Infuriating! Anyway, the pump is amazing. We just have to figure out how to manage the insulin rate in such a way that will allow nutritional ketosis at least sometimes.
My daughter A1C went from an unmeasurable "greater than 14", because the chart doesn't go any higher than that, to 9.5 in the first 4 weeks.0 -
Sunny_Bunny_ wrote: »
Well, you have to take insulin regardless if you are eating carbs or not, of course. Which does make things that much more challenging. As far as timing, don't you just inject when you eat and for corrections as needed? That part I don't understand.midwesterner85 wrote: »Sunny_Bunny_ wrote: »When were you diagnosed?
I just caught that you said you have both T1D and T2D. I'm assuming you were T1D and through insulin and high carb diet, aquired insulin resistance that then required more insulin to effectively control BG, creating hyperinsulinemia like with T2D, and progressing further. But I'm surprised you actually got a T2D diagnosis. My daughters Endo barely acknowledges her insulin resistance and the educators are very much against her low carbing. So stupid!
Anyway, I seriously think you're playing with fire with any thoughts of allowing these kinds of cheats. Insulin is not the answer. Of course you can take insulin to cover carbs, you've done that right? How'd that work out?
I'm sorry to be harsh, but I honestly think 100g carbs from all vegetables is even too much. You're going to chip away very very slowly at better health that way. And throw in cheats covered by insulin... Recipe for disaster.
I want you to succeed and that's why I'm taking a tough love attitude here. I just had the artificial sweetener talk with my daughter. Asking her to cut back on diet sodas and water flavorings. And that's not even real sugar. Her sugar cravings have gotten better quickly at less than 50g, but to get real improvement, it takes an understanding of what that stuff actually does in your body once it's in there. And all for what? A few minutes of tasting something good? So not worth it!
Yes, that is basically what happened. I was diagnosed with type 1 in 1995. In the first month, I gained 20 lbs. The rate of gain slowed over time... in the first year, I gained 60 lbs. Within a few years, I had gained more than 100 lbs. and was having serious BG challenges. The endocrinologist I was seeing at the time did a multi-day inpatient test to determine just how resistant I was to insulin. After that, I was diagnosed with type 2 diabetes. That was before it was common... now it even has a name (though it isn't technically a diagnosis) - "double diabetes."
For decades, I've taken insulin for carbs. I still do, of course. It works quite well. The only issue is timing. Unlike someone with functioning beta cells, I absorb food quickly and injected insulin acts slowly. So for a couple hours (25% of the time if you figure 2 hours and 3 meals per day) at least, BG is elevated. 100g for now is do-able most days. Today, I did not go to McDonald's so I didn't give into that craving.
Have you ever tried an insulin pump? My daughter began using hers again after a miserable attempt a couple years ago. This time she's doing it while eating a Ketogenic diet and the goal is to figure out the right basal rate and almost eliminate any meal bolus. There will always be need for corrections due to normal stress glycogen release, but can't do a whole lot about that.
Anyway, she so far has gone from over 100 units a day of fast acting insulin to around 25-35. She has had to lower the basal rate and increase her insulin to carb ratio due to gaining better sensitivity. It's been a little over a month. She is still having some complications associated with having very high blood sugar for so long and suddenly being in perfect range. I wish I had known that we should have brought her blood sugar more slowly over time, but the pump educator didn't mention that and doesn't even recognize there's anything wrong with gaining 20 pounds of water weight in 3 days or suddenly developing neuropathy you never had before... All ages concerned about the DKA that there will not happen due to low carb eating. Infuriating! Anyway, the pump is amazing. We just have to figure out how to manage the insulin rate in such a way that will allow nutritional ketosis at least sometimes.
My daughter A1C went from an unmeasurable "greater than 14", because the chart doesn't go any higher than that, to 9.5 in the first 4 weeks.
I've been using pumps for 13 years. The timing issue is that carbs affect BG within minutes and insulin boluses take much longer. I take Apidra, the most rapid-acting insulin available, and it still isn't fast enough to hit at the same time as food if I take it at the same time that I eat.0 -
Could you make a deal with yourself to skip the shake, which is really bad for your blood glucose, and do something else that's fun? I give myself non-food rewards. The burger isn't so bad.0
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I look at it this way especially with something I have eaten in the past, I ask myself "Is this worth eating? I've had it before I know what it tastes like, will I feel great afterwards or later will I feel I have let myself down and be miserable? " If I know it would make me feel great I will eat/drink it and deal with the aftermath. If I know it will make me miserable later then why bother for something I've tasted before? I know personally if I had one of those shakes I'd want another about an hour later, just from the sugar cravings not actual hunger. Downward spiral from there.0
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It took me a while to change how I look at food. Not everyone thinks like I do so this is just my opinion
Food is just fuel. I used to reward myself with food and have cheat meals I supposedly earned.
Does my car ever earn the need to have crappy gasoline put in it for running great all month? That thought is silly on the face of it.
So no, I eat what I need. If I am going to grind out a 2 hour workout then I can eat more food. I like a plain old snickers bar before a longer run or ride. On a 1200 calorie burn activity (Garmin realistic calories not Map My Run inflated numbers) it will get burnt off in a half hour.
It gives me some pop to get a good high energy start! But it is not a reward or cheat meal, it is purpose driven eating.
A wrong relationship with food is what got me fat. I need to keep that relationship correct now. I do my best to make food serve me. I sometimes fail. But it is going on year
3 of continued weight loss and body recomposition for me.
It seems it was all in my head. There was no magic pill. Just find the right fuel management system (low carb) and follow it mechanically.
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midwesterner85 wrote: »Sunny_Bunny_ wrote: »
Well, you have to take insulin regardless if you are eating carbs or not, of course. Which does make things that much more challenging. As far as timing, don't you just inject when you eat and for corrections as needed? That part I don't understand.midwesterner85 wrote: »Sunny_Bunny_ wrote: »When were you diagnosed?
I just caught that you said you have both T1D and T2D. I'm assuming you were T1D and through insulin and high carb diet, aquired insulin resistance that then required more insulin to effectively control BG, creating hyperinsulinemia like with T2D, and progressing further. But I'm surprised you actually got a T2D diagnosis. My daughters Endo barely acknowledges her insulin resistance and the educators are very much against her low carbing. So stupid!
Anyway, I seriously think you're playing with fire with any thoughts of allowing these kinds of cheats. Insulin is not the answer. Of course you can take insulin to cover carbs, you've done that right? How'd that work out?
I'm sorry to be harsh, but I honestly think 100g carbs from all vegetables is even too much. You're going to chip away very very slowly at better health that way. And throw in cheats covered by insulin... Recipe for disaster.
I want you to succeed and that's why I'm taking a tough love attitude here. I just had the artificial sweetener talk with my daughter. Asking her to cut back on diet sodas and water flavorings. And that's not even real sugar. Her sugar cravings have gotten better quickly at less than 50g, but to get real improvement, it takes an understanding of what that stuff actually does in your body once it's in there. And all for what? A few minutes of tasting something good? So not worth it!
Yes, that is basically what happened. I was diagnosed with type 1 in 1995. In the first month, I gained 20 lbs. The rate of gain slowed over time... in the first year, I gained 60 lbs. Within a few years, I had gained more than 100 lbs. and was having serious BG challenges. The endocrinologist I was seeing at the time did a multi-day inpatient test to determine just how resistant I was to insulin. After that, I was diagnosed with type 2 diabetes. That was before it was common... now it even has a name (though it isn't technically a diagnosis) - "double diabetes."
For decades, I've taken insulin for carbs. I still do, of course. It works quite well. The only issue is timing. Unlike someone with functioning beta cells, I absorb food quickly and injected insulin acts slowly. So for a couple hours (25% of the time if you figure 2 hours and 3 meals per day) at least, BG is elevated. 100g for now is do-able most days. Today, I did not go to McDonald's so I didn't give into that craving.
Have you ever tried an insulin pump? My daughter began using hers again after a miserable attempt a couple years ago. This time she's doing it while eating a Ketogenic diet and the goal is to figure out the right basal rate and almost eliminate any meal bolus. There will always be need for corrections due to normal stress glycogen release, but can't do a whole lot about that.
Anyway, she so far has gone from over 100 units a day of fast acting insulin to around 25-35. She has had to lower the basal rate and increase her insulin to carb ratio due to gaining better sensitivity. It's been a little over a month. She is still having some complications associated with having very high blood sugar for so long and suddenly being in perfect range. I wish I had known that we should have brought her blood sugar more slowly over time, but the pump educator didn't mention that and doesn't even recognize there's anything wrong with gaining 20 pounds of water weight in 3 days or suddenly developing neuropathy you never had before... All ages concerned about the DKA that there will not happen due to low carb eating. Infuriating! Anyway, the pump is amazing. We just have to figure out how to manage the insulin rate in such a way that will allow nutritional ketosis at least sometimes.
My daughter A1C went from an unmeasurable "greater than 14", because the chart doesn't go any higher than that, to 9.5 in the first 4 weeks.
I've been using pumps for 13 years. The timing issue is that carbs affect BG within minutes and insulin boluses take much longer. I take Apidra, the most rapid-acting insulin available, and it still isn't fast enough to hit at the same time as food if I take it at the same time that I eat.
It must be the level of insulin resistance you still have making the timing so bad. My daughter takes Apidra too and it seems to peak at the right time for her meals. But, she also is much lower carb than you are... Maybe that helps.
Well, the good thing is knowing that you will improve your sensitivity with low carb. If you want to know how to get there faster, watch some of Jason Fung's videos about fasting. Even if you don't want to go full on water fasting, you can mimick that fasted state at Keto level low carb using intermittent fasting even if you include what people call bulletproof coffee in the morning (As long as it doesn't have cream or sweetener).0 -
midwesterner85 wrote: »[quote="Sunny_Bunny_;3582675 Today, I did not go to McDonald's so I didn't give into that craving.
Way to go! I'm sure it was hard but your body will thank you!!
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I have been on and off the LCHF diet for a few weeks now. I am in my first week of no cheating and it is finally going well. I am able to exercise (at least cardio - lifting is tough without carbs). I have lost weight and I feel better. I am planning on sticking with this for about 4-6 weeks without any cheat days. I would urge you to not cheat for at least a few weeks.
After that, I will to continue on LCHF but I will have cheat days for sure. For me, it would be a serious decline in quality of life to say I will never have a big carb day. I love craft beer - I have no desire to give that up forever. My neighbors from Honduras just gave us a bunch of homemade papusas. I am not eating those this time but to say I will NEVER have full authentic Mexican/Italian/Indian/Ethiopian meal because of carbs is not worth it. I will keep this stuff to a minimum but life is too short for me to not partake in these things.0 -
@anthophora the lifting gets better as time goes on. Once your body has adapted to burning fat as fuel, your lifts will return. I had to de-load when I first began LCHF but returned to my regular load about three weeks later once my energy was up.0
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Thanks Samantha. I am hoping it does as I have worked really hard to meet some strength goals in the past year.
I have read that to have good lifting workouts, carbs are needed. A lot of reputable sites (at least the seem reputable) discuss the cyclical and targeted keto diets for this. I am concentrating on the standard keto for at least a month before I incorporate the carbs back in for lifting.
That being said, I am totally blown away by how little my cardio was affected by this. I have run marathons/half marathons and always focused on carb loading and gel packs. I am not doing long distance anymore but when I do 4-5 miles I feel full energy the entire time. I am eating a fairly large calorie deficit so it is not 100% but it is still feeling great.0 -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=24eYXwyqMx4
This is an interview with darthluiggi. He lifts on keto, and has tried CKD and TKD and found both to not be beneficial, instead he just stays keto all the time. It's a good interview.0 -
Thanks FIT_Goat! I will listen to this for sure! I have read that daily lifting performance increases with simple carbs eaten 30 minutes prior. However, no studies have shown that there are long-term gains to incorporating carbs. So maybe deloading as Samantha notes with the hope of getting back on track in a few weeks should be my plan. As I mentioned before, I am also eating at a calorie deficit and that will not help either.0
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That's what he looks like when he's not sitting down and wearing a shirt. The video doesn't really give an idea of how big he is. I recommend following his instagram if you're interested in weights and keto. Also, he is a moderator of ketogains (on reddit) which is another great resource.0 -
Impressive!!
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That's what he looks like when he's not sitting down and wearing a shirt. The video doesn't really give an idea of how big he is. I recommend following his instagram if you're interested in weights and keto. Also, he is a moderator of ketogains (on reddit) which is another great resource.
I
Darthluiggi, but I still think his legs look like he skips out of most of his leg days. 
anthophora wrote: »Thanks FIT_Goat! I will listen to this for sure! I have read that daily lifting performance increases with simple carbs eaten 30 minutes prior. However, no studies have shown that there are long-term gains to incorporating carbs. So maybe deloading as Samantha notes with the hope of getting back on track in a few weeks should be my plan. As I mentioned before, I am also eating at a calorie deficit and that will not help either.
That's because of the glycogen, primarily. Lifting is anaerobic, so having the "NOS system" (like in a street racing car) to get out that extra rep or that little bit of extra weight can be beneficial in certain circumstances (IMO, in competitions, otherwise it's just ego-boosting). The muscles will still strengthen and grow based on what your program aims for, you're just using nearly pure fat-fueled muscle power, as opposed to getting the extra boost from a bunch of glycogen right away.
Also, you might find that you can get away with a couple hundred extra calories while keto, for a number of different reasons, so it might be worth adding a bit of food back in and seeing how it affects your progress.0 -
Dragonwolf wrote: »And for the record, Ohio is part of the midwest, even if The Weather Channel doesn't want to admit it.
Ahemm....Mideast would be more accurate. I grew up about 70 miles east of the center of the country (as measured by highway 30 which runs from NY to LA). Ohio is 2/3 of the way from where I grew up to the east coast. I other words, it is in approximately the eastern 1/3 of the country. Nothing midwest about it.
Dang easterners who believe the western edge of PA butts up against California . . .
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Dragonwolf wrote: »And for the record, Ohio is part of the midwest, even if The Weather Channel doesn't want to admit it.
Ahemm....Mideast would be more accurate. I grew up about 70 miles east of the center of the country (as measured by highway 30 which runs from NY to LA). Ohio is 2/3 of the way from where I grew up to the east coast. I other words, it is in approximately the eastern 1/3 of the country. Nothing midwest about it.
Dang easterners who believe the western edge of PA butts up against California . . .
It is closer to the East Coast, sure, but it's still considered part of the "Midwest." Sorry. It's an odd term ...
I grew up in Indiana (with tons of family in OH and MI, where my mom is from, spent a lot of time there), very aware that I was a "Midwesterner," local athletes competed in Midwestern regional championships, etc. ... and my mind was blown in grad school once here in the Southeastern US where a bunch of the people sitting around me had no idea that Indiana is considered a Midwestern state, either. I guess they thought the Midwest was pretty much just Kansas. 0 -
I've been travelling the last few days but tried responding to this several times and MFP gave me an error message every time. Fingers crossed this time!
@midwesterner85 I'm so glad to hear you skipped the shamrock shake! My situation is slightly different to yours, but I'm a type 2 diabetic on fast and long acting insulin, though not due to a total lack of beta cells, but because the oral meds make me incredibly ill.
I gained 60 lbs after starting insulin because I could easily adjust my meds to what I ate so for a year, I made the mistake of going back to all the carbs I wanted. Before the oral meds I could take received a black box warning, I kept my carbs to about 100 g day.
After discovering the benefits of adding fat to my low carb diet, I brought my carbs even lower and am now under 20 g day and prefer to stay under 10, total not net, though I do assess the makeup of my carbs when selecting them and would never have 10-20 sugar carbs a day.
I went from using 310 total units of insulin to 20 units a day, which has allowed me to lose 45 lbs and counting. As a diabetic, I think it's really important to avoid cheat days, even though we can just inject more insulin. Like you mentioned I am also more sensitive to carbs now, which makes dosing a lot more challenging, and dangerous, as I know longer know my body's reaction as well. For me, it's much easier to just remain really consistent and eat the same volumes each day and keep the insulin to a minimum.
Based on my experience with a couple of carb binges, If I were to consume a Shamrock shake, in addition to the big dose of insulin necessary for that shake, I would have to increase my total insulin for about 2 weeks before my body returned to its new normal. And of course during those two weeks there would definitely be no weight loss.
I now choose to just indulge in something LCHF if I want a treat. I try to avoid sweet stuff as it makes me want to eat more food in general, but if I just can't help myself I'll simply whip up some unsweetened chocolate powder with some coconut cream or thrown some protein powder I with some double cream and whip it up, or I'll bake up a batch of bacon, just something that will feel like a treat to get me through without eating carbs.
I know you said you live in the middle of nowhere, I highly recommend Amazon. They sell just about everything and deliver everywhere. And I'm sure you can find whipping cream in your grocery store. Someone shared a great mint shake Keto alternative.
Good luck with your journey. And again, way to go resisting the cravings!0
This discussion has been closed.