"Cheat" Days - i.e. High Carb Days
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I see an argument about fitting things in but staying under the carb goal... That is an argument for a moderation diet, not for a change your way of eating diet. I think that's the difference between the approaches of absolutely not including cheats or choosing to do so. I am an absolutely no cheating, changing my way of eating/life approach. I do understand and agree with the fact that it's important to do what works for each of us. I mean, there's a box of dark chocolate protein bars in my kitchen that I used to love! They are 16g carbs, 7 of it is fiber... So I could do some math and make that fit plan of 20g total... But no amount of justifying will remove the 6g of sugar that is in each one. Or the soy proteins, soy lecithin, corn syrup, canola and soybean oil, wheat flakes, maltodextrin, "natural flavor" and whatever fructooligosaccharides are. But if I want to play around with macro math, I could be trying to fit them into my Keto life.I guess it really depends on how you view carbs and their effect on the body. I see them as detrimental to health and addictive. In a way, I have come to associate them with the same feelings as cigarettes. Sure, a couple cigarettes once in a while aren't likely to give me cancer, but they're also not good for me. I don't have "cheat days" with cigarettes since I quit smoking, and I wouldn't make plans to have one.
Carbs are much harder to abstain from, and even I have slipped. I do believe that it's playing with fire. In fact, a couple times a single slip has led to a prolonged relapse. But, I believe even a single day is bad for my health.
You, more than I, have a greater cause for concern about high carb days. I don't have to cope with diabetes on top of my addiction. You have personal experience with the fact that your body does not tolerate high-carb food and days. I am an ex-smoker who quit before experiencing any negative effects. You're an ex-smoker who quit after finding that you've started to develops COPD (Chronic obstructive pulmonary disease). For you, there is even more reason to believe there might be immediate harm from a slip.
This is exactly the way my thought process is about those kinds of "foods"0 -
The two are not mutually exclusive IMO. For some changing your way of eating may be eliminating carbs altogether and for others its eating. Good luck to those who can go the next 50 or so years not tasting a piece of bread but I am not one of those people. There are multiple roads to get to a destination.Sunny_Bunny_ wrote: »I see an argument about fitting things in but staying under the carb goal... That is an argument for a moderation diet, not for a change your way of eating diet.
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I don't disagree with that for sure. But, there's a difference between tasting something (getting just a taste to satisfy wanting a taste of it) and eating a regular serving.Terpnista84 wrote: »
The two are not mutually exclusive IMO. For some changing your way of eating may be eliminating carbs altogether and for others its eating. Good luck to those who can go the next 50 or so years not tasting a piece of bread but I am not one of those people. There are multiple roads to get to a destination.Sunny_Bunny_ wrote: »I see an argument about fitting things in but staying under the carb goal... That is an argument for a moderation diet, not for a change your way of eating diet.
And I definitely, personally could never allow myself to do something that made me seriously unwell.
I'm also like @FIT_Goat when he said "billions of people have gone their whole lives without having these things. They lived good lives anyway." Hell, even if they lived crappy lives, I doubt a shamrock shake was going to make any difference! lol
But seriously, there is never going to be anything that eating a certain off limits food will do for me that I would choose over the bad things it will do to me. I don't even battle with this question because I don't see any of that stuff as anything special at all. There is never a moment where the thought "I can't have that
" enters my mind.
I say this as a person that was hoarding and hiding candy around my house and in my car less than one year ago. I have never allowed myself a cheat meal or day, and I fully believe that is the only reason I have been able to develop this kind of mindset that makes it so that I do not even view that stuff as food anymore.0 -
Aschindler412 wrote: »Giant Eagle is mostly an Ohio/PA grocery store. I haven't seen them much outside that area. So whatever grocery you have in the area that would be considered slightly more 'upscale' I would guess?
More or less. Doesn't need to be "upscale," per se, but Walmart isn't likely to carry it, and outside of the home area (ie - here in Columbus, Ohio), it's likely going to be in one of the bigger chains.
And for the record, Ohio is part of the midwest, even if The Weather Channel doesn't want to admit it.
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I agree Ohio is part of the midwest - I've just never heard of that particular store. I live in rural SW Iowa. There is a Hy-Vee and a Fareway. The Hy-Vee here does not have the variety as stores in bigger cities (which are still quite small by most standards) such as Des Moines or Omaha/Council Bluffs. There is a Wal-Mart about 25 miles from here, but it is a small Wal-Mart and does not have the same variety as stores in bigger cities like Des Moines or Omaha/Council Bluffs. Ice cream can survive a 25 mile drive, but not so much an 80-90 mile drive.0
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I wouldn't do it.
But my sister does something called Carbnite which allows for planned carb refuel during X hours (you'll want to research the specifics). I think it's ketogenic the rest of the time so you would need to lower carbs mostly and then plan your "cheats" into the Carbnite window. There are other similar programs if this is what you seek.
it just sounds like you have a lot of planned "cheating" coming up.0 -
If it were me, I'd have the burger or the shake, not both, and make room for it within my goals. Then it isn't cheating. Sometimes I'll split a treat with a friend.0
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I have a higher carb day once a week or every 2 weeks. I got the idea from the link below. I am only a couple kgs(4lbs) away from my goal weight, and it's slow going..
Bear in mind, I don't have diabetes or any health conditions, and having one higher carb day does not affect me at all in regards to cravings and such.
http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/refeeds-for-fat-loss-the-science-behind-leptin.html0 -
When were you diagnosed?
I just caught that you said you have both T1D and T2D. I'm assuming you were T1D and through insulin and high carb diet, aquired insulin resistance that then required more insulin to effectively control BG, creating hyperinsulinemia like with T2D, and progressing further. But I'm surprised you actually got a T2D diagnosis. My daughters Endo barely acknowledges her insulin resistance and the educators are very much against her low carbing. So stupid!
Anyway, I seriously think you're playing with fire with any thoughts of allowing these kinds of cheats. Insulin is not the answer. Of course you can take insulin to cover carbs, you've done that right? How'd that work out?
I'm sorry to be harsh, but I honestly think 100g carbs from all vegetables is even too much. You're going to chip away very very slowly at better health that way. And throw in cheats covered by insulin... Recipe for disaster.
I want you to succeed and that's why I'm taking a tough love attitude here. I just had the artificial sweetener talk with my daughter. Asking her to cut back on diet sodas and water flavorings. And that's not even real sugar. Her sugar cravings have gotten better quickly at less than 50g, but to get real improvement, it takes an understanding of what that stuff actually does in your body once it's in there. And all for what? A few minutes of tasting something good? So not worth it!0 -
midwesterner85 wrote: »So today I'm really craving McDonald's - specifically some double cheeseburgers and a shamrock shake.
If you go to McDonald's, I strongly recommend that you have your double cheeseburgers protein style (with NO Bun and/or wrapped in a lettuce leaf) and that you avoid the Shamrock Shake. Make a healthy version of it at home with: 4-6 tablespoons heavy whipping cream, 3 ounces ice cubes, 1-2 tablespoons unflavored protein powder (or perhaps you have a low carb mint-flavored protein powder that you like?), 1 tablespoon olive oil (trust me here), dash of guar or xanthan gum (1/8 teaspoon), peppermint extract (1 teaspoon) and a couple drops of green food coloring. It will taste good and your body will be MUCH happier with you. It will allow you to indulge your craving while simultaneously allowing you to stay on track where your weight-loss efforts are concerned. Win-win.
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midwesterner85 wrote: »So today I'm really craving McDonald's - specifically some double cheeseburgers and a shamrock shake.
If you go to McDonald's, I strongly recommend that you have your double cheeseburgers protein style (with NO Bun and/or wrapped in a lettuce leaf) and that you avoid the Shamrock Shake. Make a healthy version of it at home with: 4-6 tablespoons heavy whipping cream, 3 ounces ice cubes, 1-2 tablespoons unflavored protein powder (or perhaps you have a low carb mint-flavored protein powder that you like?), 1 tablespoon olive oil (trust me here), dash of guar or xanthan gum (1/8 teaspoon), peppermint extract (1 teaspoon) and a couple drops of green food coloring. It will taste good and your body will be MUCH happier with you. It will allow you to indulge your craving while simultaneously allowing you to stay on track where your weight-loss efforts are concerned. Win-win.
That's a terrific recommendation! It won't wreck your efforts or your health.0 -
I can't handle something that sugary anymore; makes me sick. I've done low carb for a while (though I'm relatively new to keto) and I've made several LC versions of shamrock shakes that were really yummy and totally satisfied the craving.
@ladipoet what if you did coconut oil instead of the olive oil? I'm intrigued why the olive oil.0 -
@macchiato....yes, you can easily sub in coconut oil instead of olive oil. The only caveat with using coconut oil in a shake is that if you make the smoothie say the night/day before you plan on on having it and put it in the fridge overnight, the coconut oil will solidify and ruin your cold shake because then you have to heat it up in the morning to melt it and who wants a warm/hot shake? If you use coconut oil, I suggest you plan on having the shake immediately instead of trying to refrigerate for later consumption. I like a little bit of olive oil in my smoothies because it has higher monounsaturated fat (MUFA) content than HWC (so different type of healthy fat) than just 100% full-on saturated fat. Also the guar and/or xanthan gum helps keep the olive oil suspended so it doesn't separate from the smoothie mix like oil and water normally do. Also, the olive oil won't solidify in the fridge if you plan on having the shake in a day or two. I usually prefer olive oil to coconut oil in my smoothies because, believe it or not, I am not a fan of coconut flavored anything (heresy, I know)! lol I see I forgot to mention that you should use whatever liquid or granular sugar substitute sweetener you prefer to taste.0
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Ah, good to know. Thank you for explaining! That makes sense. I usually drink my shakes right away but I'll keep that in mind.0
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Sunny_Bunny_ wrote: »When were you diagnosed?
I just caught that you said you have both T1D and T2D. I'm assuming you were T1D and through insulin and high carb diet, aquired insulin resistance that then required more insulin to effectively control BG, creating hyperinsulinemia like with T2D, and progressing further. But I'm surprised you actually got a T2D diagnosis. My daughters Endo barely acknowledges her insulin resistance and the educators are very much against her low carbing. So stupid!
Anyway, I seriously think you're playing with fire with any thoughts of allowing these kinds of cheats. Insulin is not the answer. Of course you can take insulin to cover carbs, you've done that right? How'd that work out?
I'm sorry to be harsh, but I honestly think 100g carbs from all vegetables is even too much. You're going to chip away very very slowly at better health that way. And throw in cheats covered by insulin... Recipe for disaster.
I want you to succeed and that's why I'm taking a tough love attitude here. I just had the artificial sweetener talk with my daughter. Asking her to cut back on diet sodas and water flavorings. And that's not even real sugar. Her sugar cravings have gotten better quickly at less than 50g, but to get real improvement, it takes an understanding of what that stuff actually does in your body once it's in there. And all for what? A few minutes of tasting something good? So not worth it!
Yes, that is basically what happened. I was diagnosed with type 1 in 1995. In the first month, I gained 20 lbs. The rate of gain slowed over time... in the first year, I gained 60 lbs. Within a few years, I had gained more than 100 lbs. and was having serious BG challenges. The endocrinologist I was seeing at the time did a multi-day inpatient test to determine just how resistant I was to insulin. After that, I was diagnosed with type 2 diabetes. That was before it was common... now it even has a name (though it isn't technically a diagnosis) - "double diabetes."
For decades, I've taken insulin for carbs. I still do, of course. It works quite well. The only issue is timing. Unlike someone with functioning beta cells, I absorb food quickly and injected insulin acts slowly. So for a couple hours (25% of the time if you figure 2 hours and 3 meals per day) at least, BG is elevated. 100g for now is do-able most days. Today, I did not go to McDonald's so I didn't give into that craving.0 -
Wtg on not giving in on the cravings. You now have me wanting to try this shamrock shake thing. I found a recipe to make a keto friendly version.
I wonder if @PaleoInScotland can offer any advice on the insulin stuff. I know she's had some great success lowering the amount needed with low carb0 -
Well, you have to take insulin regardless if you are eating carbs or not, of course. Which does make things that much more challenging. As far as timing, don't you just inject when you eat and for corrections as needed? That part I don't understand.midwesterner85 wrote: »Sunny_Bunny_ wrote: »When were you diagnosed?
I just caught that you said you have both T1D and T2D. I'm assuming you were T1D and through insulin and high carb diet, aquired insulin resistance that then required more insulin to effectively control BG, creating hyperinsulinemia like with T2D, and progressing further. But I'm surprised you actually got a T2D diagnosis. My daughters Endo barely acknowledges her insulin resistance and the educators are very much against her low carbing. So stupid!
Anyway, I seriously think you're playing with fire with any thoughts of allowing these kinds of cheats. Insulin is not the answer. Of course you can take insulin to cover carbs, you've done that right? How'd that work out?
I'm sorry to be harsh, but I honestly think 100g carbs from all vegetables is even too much. You're going to chip away very very slowly at better health that way. And throw in cheats covered by insulin... Recipe for disaster.
I want you to succeed and that's why I'm taking a tough love attitude here. I just had the artificial sweetener talk with my daughter. Asking her to cut back on diet sodas and water flavorings. And that's not even real sugar. Her sugar cravings have gotten better quickly at less than 50g, but to get real improvement, it takes an understanding of what that stuff actually does in your body once it's in there. And all for what? A few minutes of tasting something good? So not worth it!
Yes, that is basically what happened. I was diagnosed with type 1 in 1995. In the first month, I gained 20 lbs. The rate of gain slowed over time... in the first year, I gained 60 lbs. Within a few years, I had gained more than 100 lbs. and was having serious BG challenges. The endocrinologist I was seeing at the time did a multi-day inpatient test to determine just how resistant I was to insulin. After that, I was diagnosed with type 2 diabetes. That was before it was common... now it even has a name (though it isn't technically a diagnosis) - "double diabetes."
For decades, I've taken insulin for carbs. I still do, of course. It works quite well. The only issue is timing. Unlike someone with functioning beta cells, I absorb food quickly and injected insulin acts slowly. So for a couple hours (25% of the time if you figure 2 hours and 3 meals per day) at least, BG is elevated. 100g for now is do-able most days. Today, I did not go to McDonald's so I didn't give into that craving.
Have you ever tried an insulin pump? My daughter began using hers again after a miserable attempt a couple years ago. This time she's doing it while eating a Ketogenic diet and the goal is to figure out the right basal rate and almost eliminate any meal bolus. There will always be need for corrections due to normal stress glycogen release, but can't do a whole lot about that.
Anyway, she so far has gone from over 100 units a day of fast acting insulin to around 25-35. She has had to lower the basal rate and increase her insulin to carb ratio due to gaining better sensitivity. It's been a little over a month. She is still having some complications associated with having very high blood sugar for so long and suddenly being in perfect range. I wish I had known that we should have brought her blood sugar more slowly over time, but the pump educator didn't mention that and doesn't even recognize there's anything wrong with gaining 20 pounds of water weight in 3 days or suddenly developing neuropathy you never had before... All ages concerned about the DKA that there will not happen due to low carb eating. Infuriating! Anyway, the pump is amazing. We just have to figure out how to manage the insulin rate in such a way that will allow nutritional ketosis at least sometimes.
My daughter A1C went from an unmeasurable "greater than 14", because the chart doesn't go any higher than that, to 9.5 in the first 4 weeks.0 -
Sunny_Bunny_ wrote: »
Well, you have to take insulin regardless if you are eating carbs or not, of course. Which does make things that much more challenging. As far as timing, don't you just inject when you eat and for corrections as needed? That part I don't understand.midwesterner85 wrote: »Sunny_Bunny_ wrote: »When were you diagnosed?
I just caught that you said you have both T1D and T2D. I'm assuming you were T1D and through insulin and high carb diet, aquired insulin resistance that then required more insulin to effectively control BG, creating hyperinsulinemia like with T2D, and progressing further. But I'm surprised you actually got a T2D diagnosis. My daughters Endo barely acknowledges her insulin resistance and the educators are very much against her low carbing. So stupid!
Anyway, I seriously think you're playing with fire with any thoughts of allowing these kinds of cheats. Insulin is not the answer. Of course you can take insulin to cover carbs, you've done that right? How'd that work out?
I'm sorry to be harsh, but I honestly think 100g carbs from all vegetables is even too much. You're going to chip away very very slowly at better health that way. And throw in cheats covered by insulin... Recipe for disaster.
I want you to succeed and that's why I'm taking a tough love attitude here. I just had the artificial sweetener talk with my daughter. Asking her to cut back on diet sodas and water flavorings. And that's not even real sugar. Her sugar cravings have gotten better quickly at less than 50g, but to get real improvement, it takes an understanding of what that stuff actually does in your body once it's in there. And all for what? A few minutes of tasting something good? So not worth it!
Yes, that is basically what happened. I was diagnosed with type 1 in 1995. In the first month, I gained 20 lbs. The rate of gain slowed over time... in the first year, I gained 60 lbs. Within a few years, I had gained more than 100 lbs. and was having serious BG challenges. The endocrinologist I was seeing at the time did a multi-day inpatient test to determine just how resistant I was to insulin. After that, I was diagnosed with type 2 diabetes. That was before it was common... now it even has a name (though it isn't technically a diagnosis) - "double diabetes."
For decades, I've taken insulin for carbs. I still do, of course. It works quite well. The only issue is timing. Unlike someone with functioning beta cells, I absorb food quickly and injected insulin acts slowly. So for a couple hours (25% of the time if you figure 2 hours and 3 meals per day) at least, BG is elevated. 100g for now is do-able most days. Today, I did not go to McDonald's so I didn't give into that craving.
Have you ever tried an insulin pump? My daughter began using hers again after a miserable attempt a couple years ago. This time she's doing it while eating a Ketogenic diet and the goal is to figure out the right basal rate and almost eliminate any meal bolus. There will always be need for corrections due to normal stress glycogen release, but can't do a whole lot about that.
Anyway, she so far has gone from over 100 units a day of fast acting insulin to around 25-35. She has had to lower the basal rate and increase her insulin to carb ratio due to gaining better sensitivity. It's been a little over a month. She is still having some complications associated with having very high blood sugar for so long and suddenly being in perfect range. I wish I had known that we should have brought her blood sugar more slowly over time, but the pump educator didn't mention that and doesn't even recognize there's anything wrong with gaining 20 pounds of water weight in 3 days or suddenly developing neuropathy you never had before... All ages concerned about the DKA that there will not happen due to low carb eating. Infuriating! Anyway, the pump is amazing. We just have to figure out how to manage the insulin rate in such a way that will allow nutritional ketosis at least sometimes.
My daughter A1C went from an unmeasurable "greater than 14", because the chart doesn't go any higher than that, to 9.5 in the first 4 weeks.
I've been using pumps for 13 years. The timing issue is that carbs affect BG within minutes and insulin boluses take much longer. I take Apidra, the most rapid-acting insulin available, and it still isn't fast enough to hit at the same time as food if I take it at the same time that I eat.0 -
Could you make a deal with yourself to skip the shake, which is really bad for your blood glucose, and do something else that's fun? I give myself non-food rewards. The burger isn't so bad.0
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I look at it this way especially with something I have eaten in the past, I ask myself "Is this worth eating? I've had it before I know what it tastes like, will I feel great afterwards or later will I feel I have let myself down and be miserable? " If I know it would make me feel great I will eat/drink it and deal with the aftermath. If I know it will make me miserable later then why bother for something I've tasted before? I know personally if I had one of those shakes I'd want another about an hour later, just from the sugar cravings not actual hunger. Downward spiral from there.0
