GF discouraged by HRM calorie burns. Any advice?
Muldactus
Posts: 6,972 Member
My GF and I both recently restarted our journey to fitness - she finally found some sites that inspire her and help her to truly believe the goal is obtainable. We both use HRMs, and are trying to get used to tracking foods, exercising regularly and so on.
Unfortunately, she struggles with our relative calorie burns during our workouts. I usually burn almost twice as many calories as she does, and she finds it discouraging to think that she's working as hard as I am, but not getting as much out of it.
Here's some information that may or may not be relevant: I'm in slightly better shape than she is, having spent several months (several months ago) using MFP and working out while she was unable to due to a back injury. I have asthma, and I don't sweat. Not that I don't want to sweat, I just don't seem to be able to. Haven't been able to my whole life. I just overheat and have to deal with heat exhaustion.
I've heard that it's normal for men to burn a bit more than women do, but twice as much seems excessive. Any thoughts on what might be causing this and what we can do to help overcome the discouragement?
Unfortunately, she struggles with our relative calorie burns during our workouts. I usually burn almost twice as many calories as she does, and she finds it discouraging to think that she's working as hard as I am, but not getting as much out of it.
Here's some information that may or may not be relevant: I'm in slightly better shape than she is, having spent several months (several months ago) using MFP and working out while she was unable to due to a back injury. I have asthma, and I don't sweat. Not that I don't want to sweat, I just don't seem to be able to. Haven't been able to my whole life. I just overheat and have to deal with heat exhaustion.
I've heard that it's normal for men to burn a bit more than women do, but twice as much seems excessive. Any thoughts on what might be causing this and what we can do to help overcome the discouragement?
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How much heavier/taller are you than your girlfriend? I believe that will factor into the calorie burn listed on the HRM?0
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Height, sex, fitness level, weight, age, medical conditions...there are lots of factors that can affect this. I kind of feel her pain; my partner and I exercise together a lot, and she normally gets 1.5-2x the calorie burn that I do. I just try to celebrate the fact that I'm still reaching my goals, super-fit, in excellent cardiovascular health (and get to eat more than my partner anyway bwahahaha
) She needs to remember that everyone is different and the only benchmark against which she should measure herself is...herself. 
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HRM's are not my or SideSteel's forte but we have a few HRM geeks in the group that will hopefully be able to comment.
Regarding energy expenditure in general, size will have a lot to do with it though, as will cardiovascular fitness levels and how adapted you are to the exercise.0 -
I'm about 6 inches taller than she is, but she weighs a bit more than I do. I'm courteous enough not to ask her weight, but my guess is that she's maybe 10lbs heavier than I am.0
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what we can do to help overcome the discouragement?
Explain to her that the only thing that really matters is the size of the deficit. The easiest way to "burn" 200 more calories is not to eat them.0 -
I'm the GF. I was 188lbs as of this morning.
I know I'm going to burn less than he does. I'm shorter, fatter, less fit, etc. Just guessing, but, I think his inability to regulate his body temp at high levels of exertion is the key factor in the burn difference. My body temp drops to normal within 15mins of stopping exercise. His continues at a high level for a lot longer. I have felt excessive heat radiate from his skin an hour after a workout.
Example burn for me: 60mins of lifting (avg HR 60%) + 20mins of walk/jog with (HR ranging 75-90%) equaled 453kcals.0 -
^^this is interesting...I don't know whether it would impact the HRM reading or the actual burn, or a bit of both.
I realize that my statement is totally unhelpful however....0 -
*grabs popcorn*
I don't think there is much advice to give....you have what you have and burn what you burn....the ultimate measure should be self improvement \m/0 -
The easiest way to "burn" 200 more calories is not to eat them.
Less than helpful and unappreciated. You don't know how much I eat now so telling me to 'eat less' is irresponsible.0 -
My wife and I use the same model of HRM and we use the same exercise equipment for the same period of time. I consistently burn almost exactly double what she does. So your situation sounds viable.
Having said that, exercising for the maximum calorie burn is a difficult way to look at it. You (she) should look at is as a way of achieving a fitness goal. You run, why? To be able to run a certain distance. Or run a certain distance at a certain speed. Or to train for a 5k or a half marathon or maybe a spartan race or something. You lift weights, why? To retain LBM, build strength, bulk up, whatever. Notice none of these reasons are simply to burn calories. Exercise should be for fitness, diet is for weight loss/gain.
Having said that, I do enjoy a beer with my earned exercise calories. But I don't strive for the most calories burned, I strive for my fitness goals. The extra calories are icing on the cake.0 -
I'm the GF. I was 188lbs as of this morning.
I know I'm going to burn less than he does. I'm shorter, fatter, less fit, etc. Just guessing, but, I think his inability to regulate his body temp at high levels of exertion is the key factor in the burn difference. My body temp drops to normal within 15mins of stopping exercise. His continues at a high level for a lot longer. I have felt excessive heat radiate from his skin an hour after a workout.
Example burn for me: 60mins of lifting (avg HR 60%) + 20mins of walk/jog with (HR ranging 75-90%) equaled 453kcals.
I don't burn too much more than you for a similar workout, and I'm much heavier. Do you eat back exercise calories or do you do TDEE- a %?0 -
My wife and I use the same model of HRM and we use the same exercise equipment for the same period of time. I consistently burn almost exactly double what she does. So your situation sounds viable.
Having said that, exercising for the maximum calorie burn is a difficult way to look at it. You (she) should look at is as a way of achieving a fitness goal. You run, why? To be able to run a certain distance. Or run a certain distance at a certain speed. Or to train for a 5k or a half marathon or maybe a spartan race or something. You lift weights, why? To retain LBM, build strength, bulk up, whatever. Notice none of these reasons are simply to burn calories. Exercise should be for fitness, diet is for weight loss/gain.
Having said that, I do enjoy a beer with my earned exercise calories. But I don't strive for the most calories burned, I strive for my fitness goals. The extra calories are icing on the cake.
^^agreed.0 -
I'm the GF. I was 188lbs as of this morning.
I know I'm going to burn less than he does. I'm shorter, fatter, less fit, etc. Just guessing, but, I think his inability to regulate his body temp at high levels of exertion is the key factor in the burn difference. My body temp drops to normal within 15mins of stopping exercise. His continues at a high level for a lot longer. I have felt excessive heat radiate from his skin an hour after a workout.
Example burn for me: 60mins of lifting (avg HR 60%) + 20mins of walk/jog with (HR ranging 75-90%) equaled 453kcals.
HRMs are very inaccurate for lifting and should not be used to estimate calorie expenditure for it.0 -
Example burn for me: 60mins of lifting (avg HR 60%) + 20mins of walk/jog with (HR ranging 75-90%) equaled 453kcals.
PS - do not use the HRM for lifting, it will be wildly inaccurate (typically extremely high). I log around 1/3 of the HRM calories for lifting, I typically show 1200-1400 calories for 90 mins of work. I log 450 and it seems to be dead on (weight loss is roughly as expected). 450 calories for a woman of your size, doing that amount of work, seems quite high. Maybe 300 total? I guess it doesn't matter, adjust for your expected vs actual weight loss. If you're losing slower than your calculations show, then your HRM readings are high. And vice versa.0 -
I'm the GF. I was 188lbs as of this morning.
I know I'm going to burn less than he does. I'm shorter, fatter, less fit, etc. Just guessing, but, I think his inability to regulate his body temp at high levels of exertion is the key factor in the burn difference. My body temp drops to normal within 15mins of stopping exercise. His continues at a high level for a lot longer. I have felt excessive heat radiate from his skin an hour after a workout.
Example burn for me: 60mins of lifting (avg HR 60%) + 20mins of walk/jog with (HR ranging 75-90%) equaled 453kcals.
I'm no HRM nerd/expert, but what kind of HRM are you using? If it's just a heart rate monitor, body temperature itself shouldn't affect the calorie estimate. But maybe you mean his condition keeps his heart rate elevated? In that case it would increase the calorie estimate (but I wonder if it would affect the actual burn too? interesting).
HRMs really aren't intended to be good at estimating calories burned during anaerobic exercise (lifting). The elevated heart rate during lifting doesn't correlate with calories burned in the same way elevated heart rate does during aerobic exercise (cardio). I don't understand it very well but here is a link that might help.
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/blog/Azdak/view/the-real-facts-about-hrms-and-calories-what-you-need-to-know-before-purchasing-an-hrm-or-using-one-21472
I also think that heart rates are an area where everyone really is a special snowflake. I believe that my heart rate gets slightly higher than average (for my gender, size, age) and that HRMs over estimate calories for me. But I have a friend on here who will do half an hour of intense cardio and get 100 calories. My guess is that her heart rate is slightly lower than average and her HRM under-estimates her burns. If that's the case, my heart rate getting higher doesn't mean that I'm burning more.
ETA Fixed link and there were a lot of replies while I typed that
lol 0 -
Stop comparing yourselves to each other. It will drive you both insane if you continue to do this.
I also second DopeItUp's suggestion of setting some fitness goals and not obsessing about the actual calories burned.
You may also benefit from using the TDEE - 20%/15% or so method instead. This will give you a fixed calorie goal every day based on your regular activity level (exercise is built in instead of trying to estimate and eat back as MFP guides suggest). You can calculate your TDEE at various sites online then subtract 10-15% from that. Eat at that level, and you're done. No guesswork with calorie burns.
ETA: I understand your frustration. My husband loses weight ridiculously easily, and I have to work hard for every pound. It's just a downside of being female and smaller.0 -
Just started this 10 days ago so I don't have a good base for knowing what my typical exercise and activity level is going to be. Currently, I have my daily calorie intake at 1550 (slightly above the BMR calculated by most online sites) and I eat back my exercise calories as given by the HRM. I have lost 2lbs in 10 days. I'm not unhappy with that. I have no plans to change what I'm doing with either my diet or exercise/activity -- yet. I need more data before I can determine if what I'm doing is working or if I need to make adjustments. Frankly, I'm still learning how to get all the numbers to work. I only just yesterday managed to meet my protein requirements (currently set at 30% of 1550 or 116 grams). Nothing changes until I have more data and until I'm stabilized in diet and exercise habits.
We use Polar HRMs though I don't know the model offhand.
Thank you for the info about HMRs and lifting. I'm going to continue to use it, even if I opt to modify the calories burned, because I'm curious about my HR vs my perceived exertion.0 -
Just started this 10 days ago so I don't have a good base for knowing what my typical exercise and activity level is going to be. Currently, I have my daily calorie intake at 1550 (slightly above the BMR calculated by most online sites) and I eat back my exercise calories as given by the HRM. I have lost 2lbs in 10 days. I'm not unhappy with that. I have no plans to change what I'm doing with either my diet or exercise/activity -- yet. I need more data before I can determine if what I'm doing is working or if I need to make adjustments. Frankly, I'm still learning how to get all the numbers to work. I only just yesterday managed to meet my protein requirements (currently set at 30% of 1550 or 116 grams). Nothing changes until I have more data and until I'm stabilized in diet and exercise habits.
We use Polar HRMs though I don't know the model offhand.
Thank you for the info about HMRs and lifting. I'm going to continue to use it, even if I opt to modify the calories burned, because I'm curious about my HR vs my perceived exertion.
Sounds like you've got a good plan in place. I'd do it for 4 weeks at LEAST before adjusting anything so you can have some reasonable data to go by. Your calorie intake sounds good at a glance too so I think you will be fine. I too wear my HRM when lifting just for giggles more than anything. I can keep track of my time spent easily and it's interesting to check my level of exertion as you mentioned. For example, if I'm not hitting 190 on my squats then I'm slackin (don't follow that advice as a beginner btw).
Keep up the good work, not many people start with good research if I'm honest. It will help you out a lot in the long run.0 -
Sounds like you've got a good plan in place. I'd do it for 4 weeks at LEAST before adjusting anything so you can have some reasonable data to go by. Your calorie intake sounds good at a glance too so I think you will be fine. I too wear my HRM when lifting just for giggles more than anything. I can keep track of my time spent easily and it's interesting to check my level of exertion as you mentioned. For example, if I'm not hitting 190 on my squats then I'm slackin (don't follow that advice as a beginner btw).
Keep up the good work, not many people start with good research if I'm honest. It will help you out a lot in the long run.
Thank you.
Yeah, I was thinking 4 weeks at a minimum if for no other reason than building habits. Won't do me any good to take 2 weeks of newbie-motivated exercise/activity levels, use that to figure calorie intake, then slack off 'cause I'm bored/injured/too busy/whatever.
190 on your squats --- LOL! I just graduated from pink dumbbells.
And, thank you for the earlier tidbit about you burning twice as much as your wife. Helps to know this isn't necessarily an anomaly but a fact I need to accept. S'okay. I can still kick the BFs @ss in some things. 0 -
I still log my hrm cals too. It's just something I keep in mind and I don't really follow the mfp "net" calories model.0
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Sounds like you've got a good plan in place. I'd do it for 4 weeks at LEAST before adjusting anything so you can have some reasonable data to go by. Your calorie intake sounds good at a glance too so I think you will be fine. I too wear my HRM when lifting just for giggles more than anything. I can keep track of my time spent easily and it's interesting to check my level of exertion as you mentioned. For example, if I'm not hitting 190 on my squats then I'm slackin (don't follow that advice as a beginner btw).
Keep up the good work, not many people start with good research if I'm honest. It will help you out a lot in the long run.
Thank you.
Yeah, I was thinking 4 weeks at a minimum if for no other reason than building habits. Won't do me any good to take 2 weeks of newbie-motivated exercise/activity levels, use that to figure calorie intake, then slack off 'cause I'm bored/injured/too busy/whatever.
190 on your squats --- LOL! I just graduated from pink dumbbells.
And, thank you for the earlier tidbit about you burning twice as much as your wife. Helps to know this isn't necessarily an anomaly but a fact I need to accept. S'okay. I can still kick the BFs @ss in some things.
Horseback riding, logic puzzles, cooking, photography.... 0 -
HRMs measure exactly ONE thing: HEART RATE.HRMs really aren't intended to be good at estimating calories burned during anaerobic exercise (lifting). The elevated heart rate during lifting doesn't correlate with calories burned in the same way elevated heart rate does during aerobic exercise (cardio). I don't understand it very well but here is a link that might help.
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/blog/Azdak/view/the-real-facts-about-hrms-and-calories-what-you-need-to-know-before-purchasing-an-hrm-or-using-one-21472
Read this link, especially this part:
For greatest calorie count accuracy, an HRM must have the following features:
1. Chest strap sensor for continuous monitoring
2. Ability to manually input HR max, VO2 max, gender, age weight and HR rest.
3. Sophisticated analysis technology and software which has been validated on large numbers of test subjects.
For those features, your choices are going to be limited and you cannot go super-cheap. If you cannot enter VO2 max, then the HRM is using a more general format to determine your fitness level, which means greater inaccuracy.
Note: The only HRMs I know that meet the above criteria are the Sunnto T-series HRMs, the older Polar F6 and F11 models, and the newer Polar FT40 and FT60 models. FT4 and FT7 do not. Suunto does not use VO2 max, but they have a detailed series of "activity levels" that accomplish the same thing. They may not be the only ones, but they are the only ones I can say with certainty. I have looked at the owner manuals of other brands (Timex, Sportsline, Mio) and they do not allow manual VO2 input. Don't know about Reebok or Nike products.
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Any HRM that doesn't allow you to enter VO2max and HRmax will only be able to estimate your calories burned, and even then it will only be valid during steady state aerobic exercise, otherwise it's basically just a random number generator.
Don't get hung up on the numbers-- they're probably not accurate anyway.1 -
I'm the GF. I was 188lbs as of this morning.
I know I'm going to burn less than he does. I'm shorter, fatter, less fit, etc. Just guessing, but, I think his inability to regulate his body temp at high levels of exertion is the key factor in the burn difference. My body temp drops to normal within 15mins of stopping exercise. His continues at a high level for a lot longer. I have felt excessive heat radiate from his skin an hour after a workout.
Example burn for me: 60mins of lifting (avg HR 60%) + 20mins of walk/jog with (HR ranging 75-90%) equaled 453kcals.
Chancey, my wife does not do heavy workouts like I do but she has noted that even an hour or sometimes two after I get back from the gym she cannot cuddle up to me because I am still radiating off heat from the workout. On the flip side I've worked my *kitten* off to improve my CV conditioning and she barely does any exercise at all. We did a 5k together in March and she beat me by 5 minutes. Very frustrating.
The only thing I can offer is to try to mentally turn off that comparison switch. There are clearly too many difference in size, body comp, metabolism etc. that using your BF as your reference point is only going to continue to be frustrating.
Focus on yourself and continue to do what's working and change it up when it stops working.
Good luck!0 -
One thing to remember is that HRMs don't/can't measure calories.
They are just using your age/gender/weight as a comparison against a selection of data points gathered under lab conditions (controlled heat, oxygen etc..).
Even for people with very similar stats there are huge differences - my brother will hit 200bpm and always has, I can't get above 170bpm. A super fit mate of mine has a relatively high heart rate as he has a minor heart defect which means it doesn't pump as efficiently.
So really the only valid comparison is with YOURSELF as your fitness improves.
I track and eat back my exercise calories but really don't know how accurate my HRM estimates are as I've adjusted my calorie intake over time according to results.
So HRMs are very useful for fitness training (cardio anyway) and probably better than anything else available for making an educated and personal estimate of burns.0 -
Any HRM that doesn't allow you to enter VO2max and HRmax will only be able to estimate your calories burned, and even then it will only be valid during steady state aerobic exercise, otherwise it's basically just a random number generator.
Don't get hung up on the numbers-- they're probably not accurate anyway.
We use the Polar FT40 or 60 - can't remember which and I don't have it with me ATM. We have not entered the VO2max because we have not had that measured.
Still, if you use the same tool and method for creating measurements, any changes noted should be valid. And, it's the change that's important. The HRM calories expended is as good a starting point as MFP's or an online calculator or a dart board. Results may vary. I get that. As with anything else in life -- measure, compare, adapt, repeat ad nauseum until goal is reached.On the flip side I've worked my *kitten* off to improve my CV conditioning and she barely does any exercise at all. We did a 5k together in March and she beat me by 5 minutes. Very frustrating.
The only thing I can offer is to try to mentally turn off that comparison switch.
I'd probably not speak to her for a day or two.. okay, couple of hours.. maybe. I'm secretly very competitive and hate being the loser.
Okay, I'll stop comparing myself to my BF. But I'm still going to console myself with the knowledge that I can lift twice as much as another (apparently fit, based on appearances) woman who started lifting the same time I did.0 -
I love my old Polar F11 and I hope it lives forever. :happy:I'd probably not speak to her for a day or two.. okay, couple of hours.. maybe. I'm secretly very competitive and hate being the loser.
Okay, I'll stop comparing myself to my BF. But I'm still going to console myself with the knowledge that I can lift twice as much as another (apparently fit, based on appearances) woman who started lifting the same time I did.
However, I think you're doing yourself a real disservice by continuing to compare yourself to anyone but yourself. Please know that I speak from experience. I am so ridiculously competitive and want to be better than everyone at everything SO much that I have, in fact, become very uncompetitive as a survival mechanism.
I could go on about all the ways it's unfair that I started something and my husband idly picked it up and then blew past me by miles, but that would only feed this problem.
I try to be better than I was last week. And I have setbacks and can't do what I used to do, don't weigh what I used to weigh, and that's OK. I just pick up where I am and do what I can today with what I have right now. Worrying about anything else is a waste. Life is too precious and short!
Pretty avatar, by the way!0 -
And, thank you for the earlier tidbit about you burning twice as much as your wife. Helps to know this isn't necessarily an anomaly but a fact I need to accept. S'okay. I can still kick the BFs @ss in some things.
That, and we have ( . ) ( . ) which means we auto-win everything, every time. :flowerforyou:
All joking aside, men do tend to lose weight faster than women, because as potential child bearers nature likes to keep us soft around the edges, so we have to work harder on losing the same amount (generally speaking).
So you really have no basis on which to compare yourselves to. Enjoy the journey, hmm? Get fit, lift weights, kick butt, get strong. Don't worry so much about what he's doing0 -
Locking so we can track active threads. Please PM either myself or SideSteel if you want to comment further and we will unlock so you can. Please also include a link to this thread in the PM.0
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