LC/Keto and Volumetrics
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arditarose
Posts: 15,575 Member
Hi all, I'm new to the group. I don't usually post about low carb but I'm struggling a little with the way I'm "dieting" now and am considering low carb/keto.
One of my concerns is I am very much a high volume eater. I have it down to a science and LOVE eating this way. I'm wondering if I can really still do this since I'll be eating more calorie dense/fatty foods.
It seems like I won't need to change my veg/leafy green consumption which is great because a lot of my volume comes from there. I do eat very lean meat though, so I will have to opt for smaller servings of cuts with higher fat....okay, I can get used to that.
I literally have not cooked with oil or butter for years. I used those calories for double servings of low fat cheese! I like my high volume popcorn dessert. I love large servings of 0% Greek yogurt with powdered peanut butter. As you can tell, I have some serious adjusting to do if I want to go the keto route especially. I'm currently only getting between 20-30g of fat per day. 35 if I try really hard
I'm just HOPING that the higher fat intake will be so filling that I can change this obsession I have with needing to chew a lot of food. But I do hope I can keep some of my high volume ways.
Anyone successful at volumetrics and low carb/keto at the same time? Any other helpful hints/links would be great.
One of my concerns is I am very much a high volume eater. I have it down to a science and LOVE eating this way. I'm wondering if I can really still do this since I'll be eating more calorie dense/fatty foods.
It seems like I won't need to change my veg/leafy green consumption which is great because a lot of my volume comes from there. I do eat very lean meat though, so I will have to opt for smaller servings of cuts with higher fat....okay, I can get used to that.
I literally have not cooked with oil or butter for years. I used those calories for double servings of low fat cheese! I like my high volume popcorn dessert. I love large servings of 0% Greek yogurt with powdered peanut butter. As you can tell, I have some serious adjusting to do if I want to go the keto route especially. I'm currently only getting between 20-30g of fat per day. 35 if I try really hard
I'm just HOPING that the higher fat intake will be so filling that I can change this obsession I have with needing to chew a lot of food. But I do hope I can keep some of my high volume ways.
Anyone successful at volumetrics and low carb/keto at the same time? Any other helpful hints/links would be great.
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Keto has taught me to be satisfied with less. A smaller steak with more fat marbling and a pat of butter with some sautéed spinach has been more satisfying than a leaner and larger steak with a large salad covered with low fat dressing and low fat cheese.
Of course, this takes time but it is really about listening to your body rather than eating large amounts of food just because it fits.
Because of this, I usually eat off smaller bowls/plates so that I don't feel cheated seeing a smaller serving on a large plate.
It's all a learning process. It is about quality, not quantity.0 -
samanthaluangphixay wrote: »Keto has taught me to be satisfied with less. A smaller steak with more fat marbling and a pat of butter with some sautéed spinach has been more satisfying than a leaner and larger steak with a large salad covered with low fat dressing and low fat cheese.
Of course, this takes time but it is really about listening to your body rather than eating large amounts of food just because it fits.
Because of this, I usually eat off smaller bowls/plates so that I don't feel cheated seeing a smaller serving on a large plate.
It's all a learning process. It is about quality, not quantity.
Yeah...I see that. I don't know if that's a change I'm willing to make yet. I'll be doing a bit more research over the next few days though. Thank you for your input.
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I never did volumetrics, but I love to eat and always planned my meals to ensure the most amount of food possible, so I ate a lot of low cal stuff, like popcorn and salads and big servings of lean meats. I was low carb, low fat for years before I finally went LCHF over the last year and I faced similar concerns as yours.
What I discovered was how incredibly satisfied I was with my food when I traded my remaining carbs in for fat. Adding fat into my diet was the missing link! I achieved a level of food satisfaction that I have literally never experienced in my life. I don't feel full and sick like I would if I over ate, but I don't feel like I'm constantly starving like I did when eating low fat. It's changed my relationship with food in ways i never thought possible.
The first couple of weeks can be tough as you work through the carb cravings, but when you come out the other side, you wish you could have experienced this revelation years ago
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PaleoInScotland wrote: »I never did volumetrics, but I love to eat and always planned my meals to ensure the most amount of food possible, so I ate a lot of low cal stuff, like popcorn and salads and big servings of lean meats. I was low carb, low fat for years before I finally went LCHF over the last year and I faced similar concerns as yours.
What I discovered was how incredibly satisfied I was with my food when I traded my remaining carbs in for fat. Adding fat into my diet was the missing link! I achieved a level of food satisfaction that I have literally never experienced in my life. I don't feel full and sick like I would if I over ate, but I don't feel like I'm constantly starving like I did when eating low fat. It's changed my relationship with food in ways i never thought possible.
The first couple of weeks can be tough as you work through the carb cravings, but when you come out the other side, you wish you could have experienced this revelation years ago
Ah, it sounds like you ate similar to how I do. It's really going to take some adjusting for me but I'm really curious to try. It just stinks because I have to eat pretty low calorie to lose weight...to eat 120g of fat when I'm only eating 20 now is probably going to feel like I'm not "eating" much, in the sense that my plate is going to look so little.0 -
arditarose wrote: »to eat 120g of fat when I'm only eating 20 now is probably going to feel like I'm not "eating" much, in the sense that my plate is going to look so little.
Yes, but you will be satisfied and not feel the need for more volume. Your brain hunger will take some adjusting though. Welcome to the yummy side!!
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carsonheim wrote: »arditarose wrote: »to eat 120g of fat when I'm only eating 20 now is probably going to feel like I'm not "eating" much, in the sense that my plate is going to look so little.
Yes, but you will be satisfied and not feel the need for more volume. Your brain hunger will take some adjusting though. Welcome to the yummy side!!
We'll see about that....lol. Maybe I should test the waters before trying leto. Something like 75g of carbs per day...
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You may find success with the higher end of the low carb spectrum. Keto is helpful for diabetics and people who may have trouble with insulin. I have neither but the low carb levels really helps control my cravings and mental need for lots of carby foods.
I have been having less than 20g of net carbs the past few days and have never felt deprived. I don't even want sweets or bread.0 -
Same problem, at some point you just need more volume on keto. A good food for increasing volume protein wise is gelatin (extremely low density kcal wise, mostly water and amino acids). Other high volume foods include cabbage, broccoli, kale, lettuce, etc.; dressed or emulsified with plenty of fat of course. You might need to use greens as your only carbohydrate source (trade off for some on keto).
Others on here will use soups or broths (going back to gelatin) too.
20-35g fat is nothing on keto; be more liberal with fats, they will slow down GI emptying rate as well. If still concerned, use cooking sprays instead of oils (balance volume with kcals). I think you might find out you can be more liberal with kcal budget on keto...with fat content at least0 -
When I was on Weight Watchers, I totally employed the strategies you described. I've been doing LCHF since Jan 1 and have felt zero need to increase my volume of food. I eat as much as I want (as long I'm still LCHF). I think you may find this change not as much of a problem as you are expecting.0
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arditarose wrote: »carsonheim wrote: »arditarose wrote: »to eat 120g of fat when I'm only eating 20 now is probably going to feel like I'm not "eating" much, in the sense that my plate is going to look so little.
Yes, but you will be satisfied and not feel the need for more volume. Your brain hunger will take some adjusting though. Welcome to the yummy side!!
We'll see about that....lol. Maybe I should test the waters before trying leto. Something like 75g of carbs per day...
I sometimes wish more people would go this route. There is no rush. Getting in the fats, sodium and magnesium did not happen over night for me to get figured out.
However getting in to nutritional ketosis typically will stop carb cravings. It is posted in another thread but I will repost below where Dr. D'Agostino explains how ketones does that magic. I think it is at 59:00 on the video. Keep in mind cancer prevention/cures using ketones is his research baby so he goes on to talk about that. What the last 3 minutes talking a keto line for chips, crackers, cookies, etc coming onto the market.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=lQ7pSXIWHrI0 -
BalmyD took the words out of my mouth...errr ....keyboard. I was a former WW too before doing LCHF. I also was constantly planning ways to eat more with fewer calories. I was successful with WW but gained all the weight back when I quit smoking.
I started with the Always Hungry? Book and it was a great way for me to get into LCHF because it encourages you to listen to your body and eat the serving size that satisfies you. So, I didn't have to plan for large volumes of bland food. I got to eat such rich and delicious sauces thst you really don't want more. It really does fill you up with no hunger. But it took me about 44 days before this happened and I started losing weight. Other LCHF plans could probably get you there quicker.0 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »arditarose wrote: »carsonheim wrote: »arditarose wrote: »to eat 120g of fat when I'm only eating 20 now is probably going to feel like I'm not "eating" much, in the sense that my plate is going to look so little.
Yes, but you will be satisfied and not feel the need for more volume. Your brain hunger will take some adjusting though. Welcome to the yummy side!!
We'll see about that....lol. Maybe I should test the waters before trying leto. Something like 75g of carbs per day...
I sometimes wish more people would go this route. There is no rush. Getting in the fats, sodium and magnesium did not happen over night for me to get figured out.
However getting in to nutritional ketosis typically will stop carb cravings. It is posted in another thread but I will repost below where Dr. D'Agostino explains how ketones does that magic. I think it is at 59:00 on the video. Keep in mind cancer prevention/cures using ketones is his research baby so he goes on to talk about that. What the last 3 minutes talking a keto line for chips, crackers, cookies, etc coming onto the market.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=lQ7pSXIWHrI
This is how I approached it, although Keto was not my initial goal. For me I had a lot of bad habits to give up, and I needed to do research to make sure I was doing the right modifications for me. doing it all at once would seem daunting. I started by cutting out processed and fast foods, white breads, pastas, rice and refind sugars and added more whole fresh foods. I also had a bad wine habit I had to deal with. These steps alone were a lot and it meant I needed to relearn how I cooked, how to shop, how to relax, and what I reached for as a snack. This was a huge hurdle for me, way bigger then going into Keto.
I kept with it and adjusted my food as the weeks went by, reducing and finally eliminating all wheat and grains completely. The more I read about them the more I was convinced they are not the health food our governments want us to think! (Our last loaf of bread turned to mold unopened, and we haven't bought more since.) I had dropped carbs to around 70-100 before finally doing Keto. At that point going into Keto was a much smaller step of reducing fruits and legumes, and upping fats. I love Keto but yeah, it could be a lot to do in one big swallow!0 -
Well this week I decided to actually try to stick to my goal of 75 net carbs. I feel like that's a good start. Luckily I don't really eat bread, oats, fruit so there are a few things I need to moderate. It's kind of fun because when I used to pre-log my day and watch for protein first and just fill in carbs and fats as I pleased I was constantly trying to figure out how to take calories OUT of the day. Now I'm left with calories and when I look at my day it looks pretty full. I have 150 calories to spare. Instead of trying to add in an entire new snack or tiny meal I will try to switch out my lean meat or add a little oil somewhere.0
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Sounds like a good start. I wasn't familiar with the term volumetrics but previously when I did WW or low carb/low fat I was also trying to get more volume of food with fewer calories. I was amazed over time at how I didn't feel the need for that any more after switching to LCHF. Now I get uncomfortably full if I try to eat that way. I do still eat leafy greens but I try to read my body and stop before I get that uncomfortable feeling.0
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I'm a high volume, mostly plant based eater, and while I'm certainly not keto, or all that low carb, I don't see volumetrics and low carb as being in conflict. In fact, I bet Dr. Atkins would have agreed!
I'd stick with the "net" carbs notion, as that seems most complimentary with heavily plant based diets. It might look a bit like a lower carb south beach than anything else, but thats ok!
I look forward to following your journey.0 -
Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »I'm a high volume, mostly plant based eater, and while I'm certainly not keto, or all that low carb, I don't see volumetrics and low carb as being in conflict. In fact, I bet Dr. Atkins would have agreed!
I'd stick with the "net" carbs notion, as that seems most complimentary with heavily plant based diets. It might look a bit like a lower carb south beach than anything else, but thats ok!
I look forward to following your journey.
I guess it's not the low carb aspect, but perhaps trying to actually get a decent amount of fats in. I'm so low it's getting to the point where it's ridiculous. The last time I dipped this low I literally lost my libido (sorry if that's tmi).
Anyway, today was really nice. It was interesting to pre-log and plan my day with this new goal and honestly the olive oil in my salad tasted amazing. I didn't even have any in the house before this afternoon.0 -
carsonheim wrote: »arditarose wrote: »to eat 120g of fat when I'm only eating 20 now is probably going to feel like I'm not "eating" much, in the sense that my plate is going to look so little.
Yes, but you will be satisfied and not feel the need for more volume. Your brain hunger will take some adjusting though. Welcome to the yummy side!!
This! ^^^^^^ so true.. Delicious foods that fill and service your body, heart, and mind.0 -
I jumped right in with both feet and went 20g or less from the get go. I'm in this to lose weight and it has changed my life I'm rarely hungry unless I allow myself to become so for intermittent fasting. Even then I don't feel hungry. I never would have thought you could lose weight by eating three eggs scrambled with whipping cream, cooked in bacon fat from the three steps of bacon I have for a side dish. Trust me, you eat that and you won't be hungry for hours and hours. Dinner might be a 16oz rib steak with a Pat of butter and a few green beans. Again, stuffed. No cravings for carbs. Good luck and welcome to the group.0
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What are your stats and goals? If increased satiety is the only variable, then upping the sat fats will help. I often drink 1-2 tbs of olive oil...
Re libido. Fats are important Lego blocks for many hormones, including testosterone.
BHB ketones are appetite reducing, according to Rhonda Patrick. I'm afraid that if you want the full effects that many people anecdotally report in this group...your preliminary goal would be to become keto adapted (KA). Mitochondrial biogenesis (bigger burn), enzyme up regulation for increased fat oxidation etc. I did it at 70g with fasting and exercise. But many have to go lower. YMMV.0 -
arditarose wrote: »Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »I'm a high volume, mostly plant based eater, and while I'm certainly not keto, or all that low carb, I don't see volumetrics and low carb as being in conflict. In fact, I bet Dr. Atkins would have agreed!
I'd stick with the "net" carbs notion, as that seems most complimentary with heavily plant based diets. It might look a bit like a lower carb south beach than anything else, but thats ok!
I look forward to following your journey.
I guess it's not the low carb aspect, but perhaps trying to actually get a decent amount of fats in. I'm so low it's getting to the point where it's ridiculous. The last time I dipped this low I literally lost my libido (sorry if that's tmi).
Anyway, today was really nice. It was interesting to pre-log and plan my day with this new goal and honestly the olive oil in my salad tasted amazing. I didn't even have any in the house before this afternoon.
Not TMI, but yeah, it sounds like some good healthy fats would be in order! Don't forget the yummy avocados and nuts too.0
