Whey Protein and Ketosis
ElizabethAN2017
Posts: 565 Member
Hi, I was reading on some posts that using whey protein can kick you out of ketosis. If you happen to have knowledge or personal exerience on this subject, would you mind giving me some feedback please? I use whey protein after my workouts (usually once a day). I just want to try to stay in ketosis when I get there (if I'm not already). I've been doing low carb for 3.5 days now and lost 3.6 lbs so far. I don't want to mess my progress by having the whey protein. Thank you so much 
~ Elizabeth Maryam
~ Elizabeth Maryam 0
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You can get zero carb whey protein.0
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@MaryamCh2013 it was not the carbs but the protein that was knocking me out of ketosis so I lowered my protein intake to 70-90 grams daily so I did not need the added whey.
About 1/2 of protein gets converted to glucose come hell or high water. This is also why carbs are not required for full health because the body did not want to die when people had to go days without food. The body does require about 80 grams of glucose daily but requires NO carbs to make it.0 -
You can get zero carb whey protein.
It's not about the carbs. Whey is relatively highly insulinogenic when it comes to protein. Since ketone production is modulated by insulin, the idea that it could interfere with ketosis is not entirely unfounded.
That said, I don't know of any studies on whey and ketone production, specifically. @wabmester, do you happen to have anything?
OP - Are you seeking ketosis for anything other than weight loss? Do you have PCOS or other known issue with high insulin (hyperinsulinemia)? If not, I wouldn't worry about it too much. Ketosis is not really required for weight loss, and your current rate of loss will slow down dramatically by week 2, regardless of what you do (or don't do), because the losses you're seeing now are almost entirely water weight.0 -
You can get zero carb whey protein.
Thank youGaleHawkins wrote: »@MaryamCh2013 it was not the carbs but the protein that was knocking me out of ketosis so I lowered my protein intake to 70-90 grams daily so I did not need the added whey.
About 1/2 of protein gets converted to glucose come hell or high water. This is also why carbs are not required for full health because the body did not want to die when people had to go days without food. The body does require about 80 grams of glucose daily but requires NO carbs to make it.
Wow, I didn't know that half our protein converts over to glucose. Where I live, you can only get an appointment with the dieticians who specialize in blood sugars ONLY if you are insulin dependent and my body makes too much insulin for some reason, and puts me into a severe hypoglycaemic state quite often.
Would you possibly be able to help me figure out an apx breakdown of what macros I should have? I am just a short person 5'1.5" (I go by 5'1"). I'm almost 49 (in July). I have a small bone structure. I am trying to do weight training and body weight exercises (Jillian Michaels BodyShred) and walking (perhaps may try jogging at some point in the future) to promote good health and try to maintain my muscle mass while losing weight. My goal weight is between 95 and 110 ... But as I get closer to 125, I am going to reassess my goals. I am present 152. I was as high as 189.
I have heard so much about having a high protein intake to ensure muscle mass is not affected; but I certainly don't want to mess with having a lot of glucose either.
I was about 100-110 lbs most of my life until I was around 44/45. I'm working my way back down and trying to find what works for me. Since having radiation and surgery and no longer having a thyroid, I now have problems with severe hypoglycaemia and two weeks ago, my dr had recommended LCHF to try, to see if it could help control it, as well as help me lose weight... and I can tell you, over the past "almost 4 days" of doing LCHF, I've lost 3.6 lbs... And my calories are not exceptionally low. To lose what I lost to date (before starting LCHF) I had to eat apx 800 cals and neither my dr or I were happy with this. That's why she wanted me to try this (before she started doing more investigative testing) and, it honesty seems to be very helpful and I feel good and my blood sugars have all been excellent.
So, if you wouldn't mind, would you mind suggesting what you think I should try to achieve for my macros? I would sincerely appreciate your help. Thanks, Elizabeth MaryamDragonwolf wrote: »You can get zero carb whey protein.
It's not about the carbs. Whey is relatively highly insulinogenic when it comes to protein. Since ketone production is modulated by insulin, the idea that it could interfere with ketosis is not entirely unfounded.
That said, I don't know of any studies on whey and ketone production, specifically. @wabmester, do you happen to have anything?
OP - Are you seeking ketosis for anything other than weight loss? Do you have PCOS or other known issue with high insulin (hyperinsulinemia)? If not, I wouldn't worry about it too much. Ketosis is not really required for weight loss, and your current rate of loss will slow down dramatically by week 2, regardless of what you do (or don't do), because the losses you're seeing now are almost entirely water weight.
It's sort of a combination of reasons - weight loss, blood sugars (managing severe hypoglycaemia) and helping some other basic things that are affected (I think) from the severe hypoglycaemia - ie. brain fog, depression, etc.
I haven't encountered any problems so far, and feel pretty good.
I see my dr tomorrow to update her and will be meeting with her again in a few more weeks.
I am really thankful for this group and the willingness of members to offer info and personal experience to benefit others. Thank you so much
Elizabeth Maryam0 -
@MaryamCh2013 first of all I am impressed how hard you work for better health.
While I eat just less then 50 grams of carbs almost daily I stay in nutritional ketosis about full time. My macro is 5% carbs, 15% protein and 80% but I seldom do any daily math because my Way Of Eating (WOE) does not vary very much. I do weight each morning.
Keep in mind I did not research this way of eating but just accidentally fell into this WOE trying to find a way to manage my 40 years of serious pain by diet because the doctors wanted me to start Enbrel injections. I had a hunch I could manage pain if I would just leave off sugar and all forms of all grains. Had to go off them cold turkey but in 30 days my pain was down from 7-8 levels to 2-3. Two weeks in my carb craving faded fast. Six months in my 40 years of serious IBS revolved, etc, etc which you may already have read.
In short I was in ketosis and found MFP by happenstance. In other words there are several others here more your age and are better teachers that will help you learn the details better than I ever could but I am not running out on you. I spend a lot of time researching and self testing of cancer protocols on myself as well as finding ways to boost cell and general health because I was so low physically when I found this WOE Oct 2014.
The reason I started researching cancer prevention/treatment/cures was in part because I lost a friend to pancreatic cancer but mainly because I was going to start Enbrel injections and wanted to get ahead of the cancer risk. Thankful LCHF knocked the fire out of my arthritis pain so I never started using Enbrel.
Hey ladies will you help Mary with her detailed questions as you all have helped others. Thanks and Mary I am not going anywhere. Thanks for finding your way here and I think you will feel at home as I did.
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@MaryamCh2013 I have been hoping around and did not realize I was on this group when I replied. 0
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Sorry- thought you were referring to using it solely as a protein source and were concerned about the sugar content in some. I consume it on as part of my total daily protein when I don't feel like eating meat. I still try to maintain protein at 20% of my daily macro intake.0
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I tossed out a rather large quantity of whey protein powder recently for two reasons, neither of which had to do with ketosis. First, it is explicitly illegal for the Specific Carbohydrate Diet (a very restrictive WOE meant to address digestive issues, not a weight loss plan.) Second, after finding out it wasn't allowed, I did some reading. What really caught my attention was that the Department of Agriculture was all starry eyed over the invention of whey protein products because they represented a money-making use for the otherwise throw-away by-product of cheese making. Kind of a solution in search of a problem.
Also note that whey protein is highly processed. It goes through a laundry list of changes before it makes it into the big plastic container, with plenty of opportunities for contamination. Muscle Milk bought themselves a million dollars worth of bad publicity when arsenic, cadmium, lead and mercury turned up in their products.
I was sad to say goodbye to my favorite powder; it was so convenient and made such a tasty drink. But alas .....1 -
Well glad I read this....as I'm drinking my first protein drink ever and am enjoying it....gee..haha0
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GaleHawkins wrote: »@MaryamCh2013 first of all I am impressed how hard you work for better health.
While I eat just less then 50 grams of carbs almost daily I stay in nutritional ketosis about full time. My macro is 5% carbs, 15% protein and 80% but I seldom do any daily math because my Way Of Eating (WOE) does not vary very much. I do weight each morning.
Keep in mind I did not research this way of eating but just accidentally fell into this WOE trying to find a way to manage my 40 years of serious pain by diet because the doctors wanted me to start Enbrel injections. I had a hunch I could manage pain if I would just leave off sugar and all forms of all grains. Had to go off them cold turkey but in 30 days my pain was down from 7-8 levels to 2-3. Two weeks in my carb craving faded fast. Six months in my 40 years of serious IBS revolved, etc, etc which you may already have read.
In short I was in ketosis and found MFP by happenstance. In other words there are several others here more your age and are better teachers that will help you learn the details better than I ever could but I am not running out on you. I spend a lot of time researching and self testing of cancer protocols on myself as well as finding ways to boost cell and general health because I was so low physically when I found this WOE Oct 2014.
The reason I started researching cancer prevention/treatment/cures was in part because I lost a friend to pancreatic cancer but mainly because I was going to start Enbrel injections and wanted to get ahead of the cancer risk. Thankful LCHF knocked the fire out of my arthritis pain so I never started using Enbrel.
Hey ladies will you help Mary with her detailed questions as you all have helped others. Thanks and Mary I am not going anywhere. Thanks for finding your way here and I think you will feel at home as I did.GaleHawkins wrote: »@MaryamCh2013 I have been hoping around and did not realize I was on this group when I replied.
Thank you. I almost died when I was 44/45 from "out of control" blood pressure that the drs could not figure out the source of the problem nor could they manage it (even with 3 different drugs. After about 8 months of having very high blood pressure, it went back to normal (like it was before) and despite many extensive tests, they never did figure out why it happened. But, this was when I gained the weight, as any activity at all made my blood pressure even worse and they thought I might have a stroke or heart attack. It was awful to be restricted with movement. But, I want to get back to where I was, weight wise, and also have better health overall than I did (and personally I think I am better now than I was when I was 44 (before my bp skyrocketed). Now my blood pressure is in the ideal range, actually its even lower than when I was an active teenager/20-30 year old. When my bp was high, I cut out a number of medications I was taking (since having radiation and surgery), some of which were for chronic pain ... so perhaps the lchf diet will help with my pain, like it did yours. I'm glad you have had so much success with this WAE and that you have a better quality of life and feel better.
Don't worry, I know you are not abandoning me. I do appreciate your help. I am interested in the cancer research you are following and seeking out. I appreciate that you share the information with us. And, yes, I do feel at home already. People have been very nice here ... especially compared to the regular forum ... lol. I would never post there ... Again, thanks Elizabeth Maryam 0 -
Sorry- thought you were referring to using it solely as a protein source and were concerned about the sugar content in some. I consume it on as part of my total daily protein when I don't feel like eating meat. I still try to maintain protein at 20% of my daily macro intake.
No worries I was asking about the connection as I had read in some other post's comments about this subject and didn't exactly understand what they were talking about, and being new to LCHF and "ketosis", etc. I figured it was better to go ahead and ask. The whey protein I have, is solely a protein powder and doesn't have any other macros/contents. I am the same as you ... there are times when I really am not interested in having more meat/poultry/etc and just want a quick drink that has the protein I need. My protein is presently set at 70g, so once I take a look at the lc/keto calculators (suggested by another commenter), I may change it, if it recommends another number. Thanks again Elizabeth Maryam 0 -
Sunny_Bunny_ wrote: »
Thank you. I will take a look at the link and input my information to see what it suggests. Thank you Elizabeth Maryam 0 -
mandycat223 wrote: »I tossed out a rather large quantity of whey protein powder recently for two reasons, neither of which had to do with ketosis. First, it is explicitly illegal for the Specific Carbohydrate Diet (a very restrictive WOE meant to address digestive issues, not a weight loss plan.) Second, after finding out it wasn't allowed, I did some reading. What really caught my attention was that the Department of Agriculture was all starry eyed over the invention of whey protein products because they represented a money-making use for the otherwise throw-away by-product of cheese making. Kind of a solution in search of a problem.
Also note that whey protein is highly processed. It goes through a laundry list of changes before it makes it into the big plastic container, with plenty of opportunities for contamination. Muscle Milk bought themselves a million dollars worth of bad publicity when arsenic, cadmium, lead and mercury turned up in their products.
I was sad to say goodbye to my favorite powder; it was so convenient and made such a tasty drink. But alas .....
Thank you for sharing your information. Did you discontinue it because of digestive issues you have yourself? If so, did you find an improvement since you discontinued it? Or was that just a note you were mentioning for my information?
I didn't realize that whey protein was made from a "waste" (my word) product from cheese production. And, its interesting to note that it does go through a lot of processing ... which I know is not good. I'm not ready to throw away what I have; but, I will consider this info in the future, as I have considered having a diet of no/low processed food. So I appreciate you mentioning it. Thanks Elizabeth Maryam 0 -
@MaryamCh2013 You and I have very similar stories. 52yrs./5'1" Highest 189 pounds/ current 147. Most of my life I was 110 pounds. Gained my weight over the few years between 45-50 years old. I've been doing LCHF for 10 months and lost 40 pounds.
I walk and love Jillian DVDs. I lift weights.
My macros are now at 1200cals/30carbs/80F/90P.
When I was not doing LCHF I also had to eat less calories (under 1K) and always felt tired. With less carbs more fat I can eat higher calories and still lose weight.
I used Isopure protein after my workouts for a while in the beginning few months. Truthfully, while I didn't see any harm in terms of weight loss, I did lose interest and taste for it after a while. I found I do better with more fats and less protein in terms of satiety. I buy steaks and ground meat products which seems to fill me longer and doesn't give me that bloated tummy feeling I had with the protein shake. The gassy feeling was my only complaint with protein shakes. Also, cooking meat in coconut oil and butter just tasted better. Since at my height and activity level I need to keep my total calories lower I found eating 2-3 cooked meals - consisting of eggs, meats, butter, cheese, w/ a leafy veg more satisfying.
Like others have said, it depends on which protein shake you are using. Not all created equal. I liked the shakes because I found it to be quick and easy and I don't particularly enjoy cooking or have the time. Now, I cook my meals on Sunday for the week portion them out and freeze. The Keto calculator Sunny_bunny provided is a great way to get a baseline for your protein. I'd suggest around 90g. or a bit under is probably your target range for starters, adjust accordingly. Hope this helps.0 -
emilybeaver wrote: »Well glad I read this....as I'm drinking my first protein drink ever and am enjoying it....gee..haha
I'm glad you're enjoying your "first" protein drink. The first one I had was disgusting and grainy; but, after going to a nutrition store, I was able to get a good quality one that blends really nice and smooth. *bottoms up Take care Elizabeth Maryam 0 -
@MaryamCh2013 I think when we wind up here after knowing what did not work for us and experienced some real health issues ourselves and or with close family it can help our focus for sure.
I got started in a panic because of the approaching date the doctor want me to start on Enbrel injections to knock down my immune system that was already in bad condition.
Once I took a deep breath and chilled I decided to just learn my way forward and stop getting hyper so I could just work my macro things went better. Just getting my pain levels down convinced me I was on the right Way Of Eating for the first time in my life. The changes of the past 18 months is far beyond what I thought possible 24 months ago when my HOPE was fading fast.
Best of continued success as you build on your past experiences with new info and experiences.0 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »@MaryamCh2013 I think when we wind up here after knowing what did not work for us and experienced some real health issues ourselves and or with close family it can help our focus for sure.
I got started in a panic because of the approaching date the doctor want me to start on Enbrel injections to knock down my immune system that was already in bad condition.
Once I took a deep breath and chilled I decided to just learn my way forward and stop getting hyper so I could just work my macro things went better. Just getting my pain levels down convinced me I was on the right Way Of Eating for the first time in my life. The changes of the past 18 months is far beyond what I thought possible 24 months ago when my HOPE was fading fast.
Best of continued success as you build on your past experiences with new info and experiences.
I'm glad you found answers for yourself. I find it is a journey that never seems to end, but I am glad I am finding answers along the way. Take care
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slimzandra wrote: »@MaryamCh2013 You and I have very similar stories. 52yrs./5'1" Highest 189 pounds/ current 147. Most of my life I was 110 pounds. Gained my weight over the few years between 45-50 years old. I've been doing LCHF for 10 months and lost 40 pounds.
I walk and love Jillian DVDs. I lift weights.
My macros are now at 1200cals/30carbs/80F/90P.
When I was not doing LCHF I also had to eat less calories (under 1K) and always felt tired. With less carbs more fat I can eat higher calories and still lose weight.
I used Isopure protein after my workouts for a while in the beginning few months. Truthfully, while I didn't see any harm in terms of weight loss, I did lose interest and taste for it after a while. I found I do better with more fats and less protein in terms of satiety. I buy steaks and ground meat products which seems to fill me longer and doesn't give me that bloated tummy feeling I had with the protein shake. The gassy feeling was my only complaint with protein shakes. Also, cooking meat in coconut oil and butter just tasted better. Since at my height and activity level I need to keep my total calories lower I found eating 2-3 cooked meals - consisting of eggs, meats, butter, cheese, w/ a leafy veg more satisfying.
Like others have said, it depends on which protein shake you are using. Not all created equal. I liked the shakes because I found it to be quick and easy and I don't particularly enjoy cooking or have the time. Now, I cook my meals on Sunday for the week portion them out and freeze. The Keto calculator Sunny_bunny provided is a great way to get a baseline for your protein. I'd suggest around 90g. or a bit under is probably your target range for starters, adjust accordingly. Hope this helps.
Thank you. And I appreciate you accepting my friend request. What does your dr think of you going LC? I was updating my doctor today and she just wants to be sure I consume some carbs and not have a zero; but I told her I am staying around 20. I may up it a bit perhaps, as I see your number is 30 ... so maybe I have mine too low. I see my dr again on April 27 to see how things are going and to ensure my blood sugars are okay. I'm still trying to figure out fats, as before I went LC, most of my fat came from a bit of butter; but moreso from having potato chips and other things that truly didn't make me feel better. Take care 0 -
In answer to Maryam's question about whether eliminating whey protein powder had helped with digestive issues: I've eliminated so many things since embarking on the Specific Carbohydrate Diet that I can't point to any one item as the culprit. Avoiding grains made a huge improvement even before I got serious about the SCD and cutting out almost all dairy seems to be carrying on the good work.1
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mandycat223 wrote: »In answer to Maryam's question about whether eliminating whey protein powder had helped with digestive issues: I've eliminated so many things since embarking on the Specific Carbohydrate Diet that I can't point to any one item as the culprit. Avoiding grains made a huge improvement even before I got serious about the SCD and cutting out almost all dairy seems to be carrying on the good work.
That's super that the diet has helped you, even though you're not certain what helped. Take care and I'm glad you're feeling better. Elizabeth Maryam 0 -
@MaryamCh2013 My doctors gave me 2 thumbs up for going LCHF. My primary doctor has done low carb and he lost a lot of weight too. Tho, I don't have any pre-existing medical issues that I needed to specifically address (knock on wood).
I would set marcos lower on carbs, (keto and all), but I do eat Brussels sprouts, spinach, broccoli, cauliflower, berries, so at the end of the day I average 25-31 anyway. I enjoy the variety and it is more sustainable for me long term then just eating meats and eggs. There are plenty of folks here who do moderate carbs. and have great success. There's a thread ongoing now which is an interesting read. However, lately, if my carbs get over 60g., I end up with nasty IBS issues (a collorary to the "poop" thread going on now) 
LOL. Yea, even a few potato chips not being a friend in this journey. I just can't eat them on this WOE or there are consequences.
After I posted, I re-ran my macros on another keto calculator. I had not done that at my new lower weight. It came out that my protein should be around 75g and my fats around 90g. Since I do weight bearing exercise, I don't mind that I've been eating a bit higher protein, than the macro calculators suggest. I also try not to obsess over 15g plus or minus any macro. I think the key is to be consistent and mindful of what I'm eating. Planning my meals out in advance for the week gives me a safety plan built into the day and keeps me from grabbing anything available. The following week I can review to see if that menu "worked" for me in terms of not feeling tired, hungry, while losing a bit of weight. Usually now .5 to 1 pound a week. It is frustratingly slow, but really adds up over a year. I wanted to make a lifestyle change in my health and fitness. Feeling weak and tired were always my downfall with other diets. I also would lose 10 and then gain it back after I couldn't keep the diet going. This way, I can tweak one or two foods on my meal plan each week and then again measure what degree of 'success' that does. Success not just being the scale, but also my measurements, my ability to work out, ability to have the energy to do cardio in the evening, and frankly, just my ability to get up in the morning and get going!1 -
Thank you. I'm not feeling good tonight after having a piece of pizza ... I regret my choice and will be glad when I get back on track. 1
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