Low Stomach Acid / Indigestion / Nutrient Absorption Issues

KnitOrMiss

So any of my friends with low stomach acid, and preferably taking either Apple Cider Vinegar or Betaine HCl or other digestive enzymes, do you find that taking it the recommended 20 minutes prior to a meal instead of with or after a meal causes stomach discomfort?

I've noticed it a few times, and it's really intermittent, but I was just curious. Do you find that your supplements absorb better with the other acids? Just trying to find balance here...

FitToLead

Hi there, I have low stomach acids, BUT, had forgotten about apple cider vinegar. I will start tomorrow and let you know.

KnitOrMiss

@FitToLead I've been doing the ACV a few weeks now, and the digestion issues are at a minimum, but sometimes I forget to take it just at random, so until I end up with the burping and such, I don't take it. Since it takes a lot of acid to digest vitamins and such, I'm wondering if I should go ahead and take it with each meal, even if I don't get the gastro distress, just to ensure the best vitamin/mineral absorptions. I haven't noticed a dramatic difference with my supplements, but I've also switch to almost all new brands/types.

I've noticed that if I take a stronger dose, and I wait longer, I get kind of that dull ache that precedes nausea when sick...then I eat, and I'm good to go. I'm just absolutely terrible about timing many times, and so remembering something 20 minutes ahead while not too far ahead is such a darned headache sometimes!

KnitOrMiss

So, today I encountered something I hadn't had before - a slight discomfort bordering on low level pain that felt like a trapped gas bubble where my gallbladder pain was before I had it out.

I took slightly less than my normal ACV dose with breakfast today, because I'd done some accidental fasting through dinner last night, and I was concerned about triggering my major loose stools/bile issue. However, I ended up with loose stool, but not badly. Since this discomfort started over an hour after I ate, and was continuing, I went ahead and took another dose of the ACV, and the discomfort went from escalating to fading in moments. I'm just beginning to wonder if it could be a bile duct blockage or anything, because the pain is nearly identical to how my "passing gallstones" pain began...

That being said, does anyone have any ideas? @Dragonwolf @FitToLead @anglyn1 ??

Carnivorekat

can I ask a question re ACV - how much do you take - have been having a lot of gastro pain recently and was wondering whether to try it but unsure how much to take?

aylajane

I had WLS and have some vitamin absorption issues (nothing major) simply because nothing stays in my stomach long enough to break through the coating. I switched to powdered vitamins - specifically some label "instantized" - you dissolve in water/liquid and they are kind of like alka-seltzer with a fizz. They absorb MUCH better than pills - which have a coating to make easier to swallow, but means you need stomach acid to remove the outer coating in order to have the insides ready for your intestines to absorb. Any kind of time-release pills dont work at all for me for the same reason - they rely on that as well.

Just an idea! I do take 3 times a day with meals, but its a combination of several targeted ones - multivitamin one in the morning, special D3 complex at noon and a Magnesium heavy one in the evening. All instantized. Tastes kind of gross, but you get used to it.

KnitOrMiss

kathrout1973 wrote: »

can I ask a question re ACV - how much do you take - have been having a lot of gastro pain recently and was wondering whether to try it but unsure how much to take?

@kathrout1973 - I think the dose recommended is 1 TBSP dissolved/diluted in water up to 20 minutes before a meal. I cannot do it this far in advance - it causes me to have stomach aches similar to a stomach virus with vomiting. So I take it while I'm preparing or serving up my meal. Sometimes I take it during or after the meal if I start to notice signs of distress (like if I forgot before the meal or whatever). I do the 1 TBSP in make 1-2 oz of water like a shot. I do this with most meals, and if I take supplements far removed from the time I eat. So, 3-4 times a day. It's done wonders.

Others, like @Karlottap do 2 TBSP in 8-12 oz of water at least once a day, but she does more bulletproof coffee and such, more fasting with her job...so it's worth trying difference things. Here's another ongoing thread with info...

http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10388945/low-functioning-gallbladder#latest

Dragonwolf

Not really sure, but since most stones tend to be a relatively alkaline substance (salts, calcium, etc), it stands to reason that the acetic acid (which is a pretty strong acid) can break down small blockages, whether they're food or stones.

anglyn1

@KnitOrMiss I've had the pain you describe but I have no idea what causes it. I just call it phantom gallbladder pain. lol.

I find a shot of ACV soothes my stomach when it's hurting, nausea, heartburn. Most anything really.

KarlaYP

Have you tried any fermented cabbage juice? The acv has helped my stomach, a lot! I don't have to drink it as much as I did (now just once a day, or if I feel heartburn). I've been using the cabbage juice too, and feel it's helping too (works on improving the gut bacteria). My peptic ulcer pain is almost gone (fingers crossed that it's healing!!)! I do use gastric enzyme supplement too.

Is there a possibility that you may have an ulcer? These can form in the duodenum (portion of the small intestine where the stomach contents empty) too.

As with everything, playing with it, and adjusting things, has become our way of life! I hope you find the balance that works, and keeps you pain free!

KnitOrMiss

@Karlottap Very unlikely on the ulcer. The pain is up where my gallbladder used to be. In fact, when it flared up, it freaked me out a bit, almost like a flashback, so I'll go with phantom pain, which is ODD AS HECK, because it's been over 15 years, and it's the first noticeable time it has ever happened. But yeah, ACV is now a lifelong friend. Another reason I like taking it like a shot is that it hits only my very back teeth if any, unless I can't chug it right down... I'm looking into the enzymes, though, and plan to discuss with my doc at the EOM...

KnitOrMiss

And I've looked into the fermented cabbage juice/how to make it, but honestly, it seems like too much atm. I can't even keep up my Kombucha brewing... Not only that I'd want to buy/try some before making such an investment. And naturally fermented things aren't my fave. I did drink just the juice from some barrel cured sauerkraut, and it was rough. LOL

Twibbly

KnitOrMiss wrote: »

And I've looked into the fermented cabbage juice/how to make it, but honestly, it seems like too much atm. I can't even keep up my Kombucha brewing... Not only that I'd want to buy/try some before making such an investment. And naturally fermented things aren't my fave. I did drink just the juice from some barrel cured sauerkraut, and it was rough. LOL

Bubbie's! It's fermented sauerkraut that you can buy in the refrigerated section at the health food store for $7 or $8 for a pretty big jar, and it tastes AWESOME.

KnitOrMiss

Twibbly wrote: »

KnitOrMiss wrote: »

And I've looked into the fermented cabbage juice/how to make it, but honestly, it seems like too much atm. I can't even keep up my Kombucha brewing... Not only that I'd want to buy/try some before making such an investment. And naturally fermented things aren't my fave. I did drink just the juice from some barrel cured sauerkraut, and it was rough. LOL

Bubbie's! It's fermented sauerkraut that you can buy in the refrigerated section at the health food store for $7 or $8 for a pretty big jar, and it tastes AWESOME.

They don't have that in the town where I live, and I don't get to a bigger city whenever I seem to have funds, but that brand is on the wish list - their pickles, too. I've been wanting to try fermented pickles again (it's been YEARS)...

And I only just branched out and braved sauerkraut late last year. The smell was always off-putting, and yes, I'm Polish, and I realize how crazy/insane that sounds...

Twibbly

KnitOrMiss wrote: »

They don't have that in the town where I live, and I don't get to a bigger city whenever I seem to have funds, but that brand is on the wish list - their pickles, too. I've been wanting to try fermented pickles again (it's been YEARS)...

And I only just branched out and braved sauerkraut late last year. The smell was always off-putting, and yes, I'm Polish, and I realize how crazy/insane that sounds...

...my family is Polish and German on one side. I never willingly ate sauerkraut until I found Bubbie's, as Dad likes the vinegary crap in a can.

KnitOrMiss

The stuff I get is legit, barrel-cured, actually fermented, no vinegar, etc. But I've heard good things about Bubbie's. I love vinegar pickles, but the smell of vinegar sauerkraut is very off-putting!

KarlaYP

I started with the juice from sauerkraut, but can't like the taste. Have been making my own. Shredded cabbage, water, acv, in a bowl (add salt and cover). Sits on the counter, and stirred daily. The recipe encourages tasting each day too. Then store in fridge for use. Tastes so much better, and has worked marvelously, for me!

RalfLott

Q - How do you learn that you have low stomach acid? (My test strips aren't long enough....)

baconslave

Sauerkraut is really very easy to make. It just takes a little time to cut up and properly bruise the cabbage to get the right level of juice. I'm about to put on my 7th batch so it's easy peasy now. The first time is the hardest. Maybe I'll blog the next time I make it.

baconslave

Also, I don't really love sauerkraut. I mean, I'm not going to sit there and eat it with a spoon. But it mixes well with cole slaw or warm food on your plate, so that's what I do. I mix in about a quarter cup in with my veggies. It gives them a nice kick without overpowering everything.

KarlaYP

I read an article posted here a while back that stated most heartburn is from the results of not having enough acid in the stomach (another issue that's completely opposite to conventional medical wisdom!). The higher pH actually relaxes the lower esophageal sphincter (LES), which allows the stomach contents to back up into the throat, creating heartburn symptoms. Once you add acid (lowering the pH) the LENS functions properly, thereby correcting the heartburn. The acv does this for the stomach.

So, to answer your question, it's really based on symptoms, and response to treatment. There is a diagnostic pH test that can be done, though I've never had that done. I'm going to check my bookmarks and see if I can find the thread!

KarlaYP

http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10303046/heartburn/p1

Here is the thread that may help. The article is in there, and was originally posted by @Dragonwolf, if I remember correctly (the memory loss I have noticed from the PPIs is real!).

sethanddomsmom

Have you considered kombucha? Has high acid content, tastes better than ACV and is probiotic. Some but very little carbs if just drinking small aperitif type amounts. Can culture at home to reduce the carb concentration by culturing longer. It has helped by upper GI (and lower GI) issues a lot

KnitOrMiss

I drank kombucha regularly from August through December - almost the entire time I started having the low stomach acid reactions. They did not dramatically improve the way they have with ACV. I brewed it at home myself, and I could not get the sugars down low enough (even with NO sweetness to the taste when drinking it) to not have insulin reactions, and yes, I reacted similarly to store bought stuff as well. My current brew batch is at least 2 months in, and is definitely Kombucha vinegar, but I have no real interest in drinking it... I burned myself out on this heavily by triggering my insulin reactions and roadblocked fat losses. (I'm insulin resistant, among other issues, if I didn't mention it above.)

KarlaYP

I tried Kombucha too, but the carbs created a pain response for me. The acv and cabbage juice works wonderfully! I believe my ulcer is finally healing! The pain is almost nonexistent, and no medications are needed anymore! Progress!

RalfLott

Bump for @pitbullmamaliz

Riche120

RalfLott wrote: »

Q - How do you learn that you have low stomach acid? (My test strips aren't long enough....)

My nutritionist was the one who diagnosed low stomach acid. I would get stomach cramps and bloating whenever I ate anything that required a high acidity to digest. An elimination diet for a while confirmed it. There are probably more exact tests though.

I've found that taking digestive enzymes with "difficult to digest" meals (protein heavy), helps quite a bit. I haven't been brave enough to try ACV, it just smells icky.

KnitOrMiss

@Riche120 - ACV is pretty disgusting if you do it in a shot, like I do, barely diluted, but if you ever hit acid reflex or that burping effect and bile burps, etc., it works inside a hot minute. Definitely worth it. But you can get ACV in pill form too. Look for one with decent Acetic Acid. It's supposed to still have the mother culture, though I've not been able to verify that. However, I was going for the acidic benefits, not the culture benefits... I use Nature's Life brand from amazon. I thought I'd started healing, as I was able to go without the ACV pills for a while, but once again, I kind of faceplanted after accidentally ordering the tablet form instead of the capsules...and it all reared back up. I lived on the liquid stuff until my pills came in!

KnitOrMiss

RalfLott wrote: »

Q - How do you learn that you have low stomach acid? (My test strips aren't long enough....)

@RalfLott - I didn't see above that I'd ever answered you, myself, though @Karlottap did quite eloquently.

I started with this article: nobunplease.com/diarrhea-low-carb-keto-diet/

Which lead me to this article: scdlifestyle.com/2012/03/how-to-supplement-with-betaine-hcl-for-low-stomach-acid/

Both lead me down the path to starting to figure it out. It was @anglyn1 who cued me in on which supps to try, etc.

retirehappy

KnitOrMiss wrote: »

The stuff I get is legit, barrel-cured, actually fermented, no vinegar, etc. But I've heard good things about Bubbie's. I love vinegar pickles, but the smell of vinegar sauerkraut is very off-putting!

I am a fan of Bubbie's but Costco now has Wildbrin, raw organic sauerkraut and I have to stop myself from eating the whole huge jar ever time I open it up and start eating any of it. Most saurkraut is pasterized, which kills the good stuff off. Wildbrin is not.

I love ACV, can drink it straight up in fact. I know it isn't good for the throat that way but sometimes, I just go for it anyway. I know, I am very weird when it comes to all things fermented. :0

macchiatto

I also looove ACV and could drink it straight up. I really love it on cooked spinach or kale though.

I've been thinking about going back on PPI's but posts here make me nervous about that. I really need to try other options. I actually have tons of organic ACV on hand so I just recently started having that again.