T2D - Glucophage (name brand) > Metformin (generic) ?
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Let's see.... If your insulin is 10 and your A1c is 5 (congrats!), that means your body is requiring you to pump out more insulin than you'd like to keep your BG where you want it?
@RalfLott Looks like that's it, as far as I understand. It's a bit of a chicken-egg problem isn't it? Because I eat very few carbs, so my requirements on my body that way are very small.
::flowerforyou::2 -
KetoGirl83 wrote: »Let's see.... If your insulin is 10 and your A1c is 5 (congrats!), that means your body is requiring you to pump out more insulin than you'd like to keep your BG where you want it?
@RalfLott Looks like that's it, as far as I understand. It's a bit of a chicken-egg problem isn't it? Because I eat very few carbs, so my requirements on my body that way are very small.
::flowerforyou::
Why, yes it is!
If I've got them sorted out right.....
I get 4-8 eggs a day, but I have no clue what the chickens look like.2 -
Dr. Bernstein's latest Teleseminar has another discussion about the benefits of name-brand Glucophage XR over generic metformin, including the observation that Glucophage XR is more potent than generic Metformin - and therefore effective at a lower dose. (!)
https://youtu.be/MRH9W7hk7VE
Comnents about Glucophage start around 36:15. He also gives reasons in the same discussion for not recommending Januvia, and elsewhere he discusses possible beta cell regeneration with L-Carnisine and Actos.
My own experiment with Glucophage XR has been uneventful, but I haven't kept the other variables consistent enough to draw any conclusions.4 -
Dr. Bernstein's latest Teleseminar has another discussion about the benefits of name-brand Glucophage XR over generic metformin, including the observation that Glucophage XR is more potent than generic Metformin - and therefore effective at a lower dose. (!)https://youtu.be/MRH9W7hk7VE
Comnents about Glucophage start around 36:15. He also gives reasons in the same discussion for not recommending Januvia, and elsewhere he discusses possible beta cell regeneration with L-Carnisine and Actos.
My own experiment with Glucophage XR has been uneventful, but I haven't kept the other variables consistent enough to draw any conclusions.
Wow! That would be amazing! But now to suppress the autoimmune attacking them in T1D's.
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I was taking metformin for PCOS related insulin resistance (have since been able to get off it successfully)... but when I was taking it... here where I live my pharmacist stopped carrying the name brand metformin because the gov't subsidized medical plan would only cover the generic. Even though I don't qualify for subsidy, he went ahead and changed me over to generic without telling me. I went from having no stomach issues to non stop diarrhea. He INSISTED there was no difference, but after a couple weeks I convinced him to bring back the name brand one for me and my stomach issues totally stopped.6
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I remember when I was taking it, it changed over to the generic. The pills smelled like poop. I questioned them and they said they had heard similar comments from other patients. I only had diarreah at the start, but after a few days, it was not a problem.
Subsequently, I don't take them anymore, since I started the fermented food regimen.
Dan2 -
jetsamflotsam wrote: »I was taking metformin for PCOS related insulin resistance (have since been able to get off it successfully)... but when I was taking it... here where I live my pharmacist stopped carrying the name brand metformin because the gov't subsidized medical plan would only cover the generic. Even though I don't qualify for subsidy, he went ahead and changed me over to generic without telling me. I went from having no stomach issues to non stop diarrhea. He INSISTED there was no difference, but after a couple weeks I convinced him to bring back the name brand one for me and my stomach issues totally stopped.
Good for you! For getting off it and for wrastling your pharmacist into submission. I remember back when generic synthroid was wreaking havoc on poor, unsuspecting patients. I'll bet plenty of pharmacists continued to spout the "ain't no diffetence" mantra long after the jig was up....
Do you remember any difference in effectiveness?1 -
jetsamflotsam wrote: »I was taking metformin for PCOS related insulin resistance (have since been able to get off it successfully)... but when I was taking it... here where I live my pharmacist stopped carrying the name brand metformin because the gov't subsidized medical plan would only cover the generic. Even though I don't qualify for subsidy, he went ahead and changed me over to generic without telling me. I went from having no stomach issues to non stop diarrhea. He INSISTED there was no difference, but after a couple weeks I convinced him to bring back the name brand one for me and my stomach issues totally stopped.
Good for you! For getting off it and for wrastling your pharmacist into submission. I remember back when generic synthroid was wreaking havoc on poor, unsuspecting patients. I'll bet plenty of pharmacists continued to spout the "ain't no diffetence" mantra long after the jig was up....
Do you remember any difference in effectiveness?
Not particularly. I don't think I was on the generic long enough to really get a good idea though.1 -
The spread of ignorance is upon us...look up "narrow therapeutic index drug" & then you may be able to comprehend why some people require SYNTHROID over levothyroxine & why this nonsense with Metformin is utter *kitten*.
5% difference is statistically undetectable by a human being. Your lifestyle factors alone are enough influence to cause your BG fluctuations you claim to be caused by a generic.0 -
How do you know if it is generic? If script bottle says metformin does that mean anything?1
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treehugnmama wrote: »How do you know if it is generic? If script bottle says metformin does that mean anything?
Metformin is generic. Glucophage is the brand name.0 -
Yep, you're right. Metformin is the generic, Glucophage is the name-brand.
FYI, it takes some doing to get insurance to cover name-brand Glucophage. It took a while, but I finally managed to get an exception.
I'm hopeful the higher copay will be offset in part by being able to halve the dose and stretch the same number of pills to double the days.
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1st month report - cautious optimism!
Starting month two, I find I needed only about 60% of the dose of brand-name Glucophage XR compared to generic Metformin XR the previous month in order to keep fasting and 2-hour post-prandial BG generally < 110 (and usually < 100).
Also, I only needed 30% as much Imodium. (Never thought I'd see the day! )
Some variables lived up to their names, however. More exercise, less coffee, more magnesium, fish oil & Vitamin D, etc.
Stay tuned!6 -
That's great news on reducing medication! Just curious: Where were your numbers on fasting and post prandial BG before (with or without medication) ? Are you doing IF too?0
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@Foamroller - Howdy! Yes, they were close to identical with the higher dose of Metformin (aka Notformin'), and I work in 2-3 16-hr IFs per week.
I am hoping to try a Glucophage holiday, if I can work my way down to 1x 500mg per day with A1c < 5.5.
Not putting money on it, though!4 -
Quick update a month down the road - results are holding steady.
Grades:- Glucophage XR: A
- Metformin XR (various generics): B / D+
Currently:- Glucophage XR - 2-3x 500 (usually 2x now, down from 4x 500 generic metformin)
- Imodium 2-4 (down from 6-12)
- Diet: about the same
- Weight: very slowly losing.
- A1c 5.1 - 5.5
- Waking BG 70-105, highest 145 (after taking only 1x Glucophage with lunch the previous day)
- Post-prandial BG (1.5-2 hrs) : 90-140 (usually not above 125)
Dr. Bernstein's June Teleseminar takes up metformin v. glucophage as the first topic
(starts around 1:00)4 -
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@genmon00 - Check out this discussion (title: "Keto - major TMI help")0
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Dangit. I am looking into this now...but not sure if I can afford it on my Obamacare (stupid insurance barely covers anything and it's not cheap).0
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@bjwoodzy -
I'll try to address your points in the other thread here as well.... sorry for the length, but I think you're a bit of a fact hound.
Insurance - I didn't have any problem getting my doctor to submit a request for a name-brand exception for Glucophage, but it did take a lot of hounding the insurance carrier.
Digestion - In learning to get by in public without asbestos underwear, I eventually got to be pretty good at timing doses of LOT of Imodium and generic metformin. So it is possible to get by on the generics, but they seem to vary quite a bit as to effectiveness and incendiary strength. Glucophage XR is clearly an improvement for my combustion chamber, though many people seem to tolerate the generic metformin just fine, even the immediate release version.
Usefulness - I've experimented reducing or eliminating metformin a few times pre- and post- LCHF, but I've always been disappointed by high BGs that followed. So I'm pretty much resigned to taking at least 2-3x 500 as long as I can swallow.
Huh? - If you're running around fasting BG=200, then I don't get why your doctor would refuse to prescribe metformin, (except in the unlikely event you have one of the few conditions mentioned in the product info - link below).
Advantages - Here are some:- It has been around a long time and has a good safetly profile,
- If you can tolerate the immediate release generic versions, it is cheap - free at some large retailers' pharmacies,
- It tends to work well for T2Ds,
- It appears to have other health benefits, and
- It doesn't tend to pose a danger of hypoglycemia.
I've had BG readings into the low 50s on metformin since starting LCHF - which I found alarming, though they episodes did not produce any symptoms, like confusion, light-headedness, headache, etc. It seems that folks who are keto-adapted can tolerate lower BG levels, according to my endo as well as Phinney and Volek.
Dosing - Note the recommendation of a maintenance dose of 2000 mg/day!Glucophage dosing information
Usual Adult Dose for Diabetes Type 2
Immediate-release:
Initial dose: 500 mg orally twice a day or 850 mg orally once a day
Dose titration: Increase in 500 mg weekly increments or 850 mg every 2 weeks as tolerated
Maintenance dose: 2000 mg daily
Maximum dose: 2550 mg daily
Comments: Take in divided doses 2 to 3 times a day with meals. Titrate slowly to minimize gastrointestinal side effects. In general, significant responses are not observed with doses less than 1500 mg/day.
Extended-release:
Initial dose: 500 to 1000 mg orally once a day
Dose titration: Increase in 500 mg weekly increments as tolerated
Maintenance dose: 2000 mg daily
Maximum dose: 2500 mg daily
Comments: If glycemic control is not achieved with once a day administration of an extended-release product, consider dividing doses. If higher doses are required, may switch to immediate-release product.
https://www.drugs.com/glucophage.html
I don't really know enough to offer useful suggestions if your fasting BG is running around 200 on LCHF.
Q - How long is your fast, and how much metformin are you taking now? Have you had thyroid or adrenal tests?
Bookworms @dragonwolf @foamroller @midwesterner85 @wabmester @nvmomketo @GaleHawkins or @Sunny_Bunny_ might have some valuable insights!
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