LCD witness- covert operation exposed- help husband
SamandaIndia
Posts: 1,577 Member
Sure my husband knew I had a fluffy coffee for breakfast. He knew it had butter, not milk in it. This morning he came in the kitchen whilst the 16g of butter and 10g of oil (which he did not notice) sat in the blender waiting for the plunged coffee to be added. 4 months and I had always had it blended before he saw my coffee. Sprung!!
He asked, would it taste ok without the butter? Then you wouldn't have to burn off those calories later. I said that it kept me full until lunch and means I am not tempted to eat other stuff.
Having said that, I wish I had scientific articles and support that could help him see LCD as a viable strategy for him. He is off on treadmill exercising now. He is a low calorie angel by day and has trouble at night. He has bought into the calorie in/out story and has a family history of diabetes. Although he sees my weight loss, he attributes it to not eating sugar, restricting my choices, so I ate less and thus lowered calories and therefore lost weight.
Any great scientifically backed studies for an engineer with amazing analytical skills and belief in cal in / out equation?
He asked, would it taste ok without the butter? Then you wouldn't have to burn off those calories later. I said that it kept me full until lunch and means I am not tempted to eat other stuff.
Having said that, I wish I had scientific articles and support that could help him see LCD as a viable strategy for him. He is off on treadmill exercising now. He is a low calorie angel by day and has trouble at night. He has bought into the calorie in/out story and has a family history of diabetes. Although he sees my weight loss, he attributes it to not eating sugar, restricting my choices, so I ate less and thus lowered calories and therefore lost weight.
Any great scientifically backed studies for an engineer with amazing analytical skills and belief in cal in / out equation?
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Well, while I don't have studies for you, the part about him being an engineer made me think you might try connecting with Lisa MarcAurele who writes the blog Low Carb Yum - she is an engineer by day as well as a low carb food blogger, may be able to offer assistance! She's pretty active on Facebook, both on her Low Carb Yum FB page and in a couple of Low Carb/ Keto recipe groups too.2
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Thanks @Phrick ! Will investigate. He wants to be healthier and needs to find his own path but I am keen to put up a few good road signs that help.2
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Has he read Taubes? I started with Why We Get Fat and then read the more scientifically rigorous Good Calories, Bad Calories. I knew from my own n=1 studies over the years that low carb was the only way that I could sustainably lose weight and be healthier, but I always abandoned it because "they" said it was bad for you, etc. It was only after reading Taubes that I was convinced I could do this for life. Also, before I became a SAHM, I was working on my PhD in environmental engineering, so I am used to dissecting scientific studies. (Babies certainly have a way of derailing dissertations!)
Anyway, what I always want to shout at the CICO people is that you are assuming that you have a great deal of control over CO (and to a certain extent CI). (I restrain myself from shouting). Taubes hammers home the point that you are not fat because you are overeating, you are overeating because you are getting fat. This point was a huge psychological turning point for me. Of course when you lose weight you are burning more than you are taking in - the question is why
So that was a little ramble-y, but I hope it helps! My own husband is one of the lucky insulin sensitive eat what he wants and still weigh what he weighed in high school (138 lbs - men!). From time to time I point out to him that it'd help him with his endurance cycling to be keto, and it could be protective for his brain given that he had a seizure last summer, but he's having none of that. While I don't try to convert him, whenever he wants to argue with me about the way I eat, I tell him I can't really discuss it with him until he's read what I've read He still has those vague societal feelings that it's bad. He's an aeronautical engineer. He also says talking to me about it is like talking to a religious zealot, but I feel the same way about the CICO people. 6 -
There's no conflict between low-carb and CICO unless you make one.
The difference is between conscious calorie restriction and unconscious calorie restriction. I.e., it's all about natural appetite control on low-carb.
But it doesn't work for everybody. Low-carb works best for the insulin resistant. There are plenty of markers of insulin resistance other than insulin levels. Low HDL, high TG, high waist circumference, high fasting glucose, and high ALT (liver enzyme) are all suggestive.
If he has any of those markers, his focus should be improving health, and LC will help.7 -
If he likes CICO theory all you need to explain is that the butter is your CO, rather than oatmeal or toast. It's not extra calories, it is your calorie choice with a diffent macro focus.
But I do think wab has it right. Not everyone needs LCHF to successfully have CI<CO. LCHF is a blessing for those of us with IR, but if he is insulin sensitive, he may not need it.
That being said, he might like Peter Attia's blog. He was an engineer turned doctor. So was Bernstein who wrote my LCHF motivator, Dr Bernstein's Diabetes Solution. And then there is the LCHF bible, written by Phinney and Volek, The Art and Science of Low Carbohydrate Living, and the Art and Science of low Carbohydrate Performance.2 -
CI<CO requires so much discipline that he drops 10 then gains 15 and repeat. Will get reading, thanks!!3
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SamandaIndia wrote: »CI<CO requires so much discipline that he drops 10 then gains 15 and repeat. Will get reading, thanks!!
Ah, it isn't really working for him then.
LOL
My hubby is similar. He used to be able to increase his exercise a bit and drop an evening snack and he would lose weight quickly. Now though? The middle age spread has spread and he doesn't want to cut back on potatoes and bread. LOL6 -
I listened to a podcast last week where Dr Jason Fong talked about this....made sense that calories from suger like a can of coke compared to calories from a steak act differently in your body....this is the link:
https://itunes.apple.com/nz/podcast/robb-wolf-paleo-solution-podcast/id340221970?mt=2&i=368386812
I sometimes have podcasts playing while my husband and I are doing work around the house, hoping that he may take it in. I'm trying not to be pushy about my beliefs as he can get defensive. He's also an engineer and I know he would like the science behind LCHF and Keto if he looked into it a bit more.2 -
There's no conflict between low-carb and CICO unless you make one.
The difference is between conscious calorie restriction and unconscious calorie restriction. I.e., it's all about natural appetite control on low-carb.
But it doesn't work for everybody. Low-carb works best for the insulin resistant. There are plenty of markers of insulin resistance other than insulin levels. Low HDL, high TG, high waist circumference, high fasting glucose, and high ALT (liver enzyme) are all suggestive.
If he has any of those markers, his focus should be improving health, and LC will help.
@wabmester - those are all the flags that I was told indicated my hypothyroidism, not my insulin resistance. It makes me wonder how interrelated those two conditions really are, considering most thyroid issues can be prevalent and running rampant in the body over a decade before showing up on a standard screening.2 -
I found on you tube some videos made by "Butter Bob Briggs". the one that really got my attention was titled "why fat people get hungry". NOT calling you or your husband fat! but it might resonate with him like it did me.2
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Also, this one has lots of science explained well:
The World Turned Upside Down: The Second Low-Carbohydrate Revolution
by Richard David Feinman
https://www.amazon.com/World-Turned-Upside-Down-Low-Carbohydrate-ebook/dp/B00QZDORCI
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Wow some great ideas. Thanks!!0
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His blog site: https://feinmantheother.com/1
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What convinced me that CICO does Not work is that I was gaining huge amounts of weight while I was running an organic farm by myself (recent illness of my hubby).
I chase sheep and move fences, dig gardens and poo from sun up to sun down (it's raining today so I can't do the work I had planned). I can't afford to hire too many helpers and I refuse to get one of those ATVs that fat farmers ride around in. I walk most everywhere on the farm. But despite picking up the load of physical labor that my husband couldn't do, I gained and gained and gained. Admittedly I had recently quit smoking (and never went back to it - one good thing for my health). But if calories in and calories out were true, why did I gain over that year when I had doubled my physical activity level? My calories did not change because I was tracking them and knew exactly what I was eating.
Even on LCHF, I gained and it took me 44 days before I saw any weight loss.
There is more going on in our bodies and I think science is just starting to figure it out. Maybe your hubby will start to see the disconnect between the theory of CICO and the actual results.3 -
arkansasteriann wrote: »I found on you tube some videos made by "Butter Bob Briggs". the one that really got my attention was titled "why fat people get hungry". NOT calling you or your husband fat! but it might resonate with him like it did me.
Good tip!
I think Butter Bob is a great exponent of LCHF and a bright and earnest guy.
Some (including me) find him accessible and engaging, while others may find him too "guy on the street" in his presentation and language. Surely his vids deserve a place in the Launch Pad!
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My hubby just does not understand the butter!
In his words...thought you were on a diet!0 -
My hubby just does not understand the butter!
In his words...thought you were on a diet!
Oh, really? Could you shame him into telling you what his medieval understanding of "diet" is ?
(It's your call, of course, whether to mock and deride him, or just politely explain that earth is, alas, not flat..... The peace-making gift of a box of extra small condoms would be optional, of course.)1 -
arkansasteriann wrote: »I found on you tube some videos made by "Butter Bob Briggs". the one that really got my attention was titled "why fat people get hungry". NOT calling you or your husband fat! but it might resonate with him like it did me.
Good tip!
I think Butter Bob is a great exponent of LCHF and a bright and earnest guy.
Some (including me) find him accessible and engaging, while others may find him too "guy on the street" in his presentation and language. Surely his vids deserve a place in the Launch Pad!
@RalfLott, don't forget if we find things to add to the Launch Pad, we just need to tag @baconslave or the other mods to get this added!0 -
SamandaIndia wrote: »Although he sees my weight loss, he attributes it to not eating sugar, restricting my choices, so I ate less and thus lowered calories and therefore lost weight.?
He's right about this though. You lose weight on low carb because you've cut out sugar, and are less hungry, thus lowered calories. You would not be losing weight if you had not lowered your calories.
There are, however, other benefits of low carb over the traditional low fat high carb diet as far as diabetes, inflammation, and a whole heap of other health concerns. This is the bit that would be beneficial to him to understand. That yes, he can lose weight on the same amount of calories, but lowering his sugar/carbs will benefit him in other ways. Thin people can develop diabetes if they have a high carb diet, it's not just a fat people disease.
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Belated bump for 2017.0
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You might want to start with - CICO and LCHF are not mutually exclusive. Many LCHF still track calories, but find it easier to stay within goal levels due to the appetites suppressing which is a common side effect of LCHF. Many people find fat more satiating to eat and therefore are not subject to cravings when eating it aplenty. If he struggles to stay on target in the evenings he could try just upping his fat earlier in the day and seeing how he feels in the evenings - does the additional fat intake make the evening consumption less of a struggle to keep within his target boundaries?1
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My hubby just does not understand the butter!
In his words...thought you were on a diet!
Oh, really? Could you shame him into telling you what his medieval understanding of "diet" is ?
(It's your call, of course, whether to mock and deride him, or just politely explain that earth is, alas, not flat..... The peace-making gift of a box of extra small condoms would be optional, of course.)
We really need a 'lol' button, and not one just in the emoticons....!!
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tcunbeliever wrote: »You might want to start with - CICO and LCHF are not mutually exclusive. Many LCHF still track calories, but find it easier to stay within goal levels due to the appetites suppressing which is a common side effect of LCHF. Many people find fat more satiating to eat and therefore are not subject to cravings when eating it aplenty. If he struggles to stay on target in the evenings he could try just upping his fat earlier in the day and seeing how he feels in the evenings - does the additional fat intake make the evening consumption less of a struggle to keep within his target boundaries?
Seems obvious (er, to us....). Here's a vid that eloquently makes your point about the endocrine theory encompassing CICO - and more.
https://youtu.be/8t1JN0RgvO4 2
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