Keto without a gall bladder

WBB55

Hello folks, I'm 24 days into ketosis (based on ketostix confirmation of ketone bodies present in my urine). Average total carbs about 32/day, and for the most part things are fine, I'm over the worst of the flu issues. However, I'm still running into the issues I've had when I've tried to eat keto in the past, which is I'm clearly not digesting certain micros well, though I'm eating/supplementing them as highly as I dare without an actual MD/DO prescribing things.

My casual internet research leads me to believe sometimes folks without a gall bladder digest nutrients poorly on keto since they have more difficulty digesting fat. If I eat too much animal-based saturated fat all at once without sufficient fiber to slow it down, the results are disastrous cramping and sessions in the bathroom riding out the storm.

Does anyone have experience successfully convincing a gall bladder-less body to digest fat (and the micronutrients also present in the foods you eat). Or, if you don't have a gall bladder and haven't noticed these issues, describe to me the kinds of fat or meal schedule you eat.

Thanks for reading and any input.

Sunny_Bunny_

I haven't had a gall bladder for many years. I have had zero issues with Keto and the fat I eat. As a matter of fact, I used to occasionally have "phantom gall bladder" attacks prior to Keto but haven't had once in over a year now. Keto seems to have solved that issue.
I do not eat vegetable oils, margarine, things like that at all.
My typical day starts with coffee with 1Tbs coconut oil and 1Tbs butter. Lunch is often cheese and meat of some sort or bacon and eggs. Dinner is meat and small amount of vegetables because I find I do better with as little fiber as possible. If the meat is lean I make a cream sauce to add some fat to it.

RowdysLady

I echo @Sunny_Bunny_ I've been without a GB since my early 20s. (I think I'm 42 now, maybe 41) Keto has had no negative effects on me at all in that way. I've completely cut out the veggie oils as well. Only coconut oil and real butter for me. I also drink the BPC. I eat bacon, sausage or left over meat from dinner for lunch with eggs usually. At night I make some sort of meat and eat only that with usually a small salad. I usually add butter to my meat if I need extra fat for the day. On Thursdays I take my daughter to her music lessons and pass by a quick mart that has the BEST hot dogs I've ever eaten and I will admit I eat two without a bun usually for dinner. If anything was going to kill my poor system, I'd think those overly filled nitrate products would.

I do snack, and I see mixed reviews on snacking here...I like the sugar free candies and I like Atkins products where many do not.

Rarely I have a day where everything comes out pretty quickly after going in, but I don't think that's my lack of GB. I think some days my body just says purge. It's never painful or miserable though. Just when it's time to go, it's time to go.

From a nurse perspective I'd suggest minimizing itmes you eat and see if you can find a trigger. For example, if you eat coconut oil now, take it out for a day or two and see if your issues resolve. If they don't, add it back in and remove something else. If you can determine if it's something specific then go back to eating small portions of that item and slowly acclimate your body to it until you are up to a serving size.

Also, are you taking Mag now and were not before? Mag will cause issues if taken in too high a dose.

LemonMarmalade

I had my gallbladder out 11 or so days ago and I have not had any issues eating very low carb. I was nervous about it but so far I have felt 100% better all around since it's gone!

I hope you find a solution soon. It is tough to have issues like that with no answers as to why.

WBB55

My BIGGEST problem right now is not bathroom issues. In the past 24 days I've had maybe 2 incidents of ... urgency... which is I think the best I've done in that realm in 10 years. Essentially right now I'm doing a keto elimination diet (with the keto being the important part) with cutting out nearly all soy, sugar, milk, wheat/grains, beans, and i'm trying to not overdo it with fiber and artificial sugars (both of which can be triggers in too large amounts). Once I stabilize on keto, I'll start experimenting with things and different fats (like doing BPC). So right now, I'm kinda just building a knowledge database of what other folks without gall bladders successfully eat. That way, when I stabilize a bit on keto I can start experimenting more on what's causing the most... issues.

My biggest issue right now is (I believe) the electrolyte and micronutrients issue. I'm clearly not digesting the ones I'm eating/taking. I'm over the flu symptoms, but my leg cramps are making me question my micros and electrolyte absorption.

I note both of you use coconut oil. I use a lot of olive oil, and I'd read MCTs can help with fat digestion. I'll probably be adding coconut oil to more things, based on what I've read about its digestibility. But like I said, really, I'm trying to build a base of knowledge to start experimenting with. Keto has a lot of positive side effects for me that make it worth the effort of figuring out the absorption problem.

BUZZIEST

You can add a digestive enzyme supplement that contains oxbile to help with fat digestion.

KarlaYP

No gallbladder since well before beginning keto, and have had no problems digesting fats. I have suffered leg cramps to the point of causing pulled muscles. I have to keep my sodium intake at 5000mg (mostly from salt tablets), minimum, everyday, and take 400mg of magnesium citrate two times a day. I will take a potassium supplement if the cramps "breakthrough" the sodium and magnesium. I'm unable to eat enough to maintain my electrolytes with food alone.

Sunny_Bunny_

Leg cramps are related to low sodium and magnesium. It's probably less of an absorption problem than it is insufficient intake. It's a very very common low carb symptom. We lose a lot of water and with it goes sodium and magnesium and potassium but that one isn't as difficult to get in food, so supplementing isn't always necessary. But it is necessary for many of us to get the sodium and magnesium by supplementation.
I suggest getting a magnesium supplement and taking no less than 400mg a day in 2 half doses.
The best form would be magnesium chloride with magnesium carbonate or glycinate being a good second choice. With your digestive symptoms I would not (and I don't recommend it for anyone) to take magnesium oxide, but in your case I would also avoid magnesium citrate as it too tends to be more laxative. You would need pretty high doses to get the laxative effect from the ones I mentioned. I take 750-1000mg a day of carbonate myself with depending on how much vegetables I eat in any given day. Since the fiber in them can give me digestion issues, I take the higher doses in those days and I'm good to go. Lol

bametels

I've got gallbladder surgery scheduled at the end of the month. I was thrilled with LCHF eating and then keto over these past three months. Lost weight without hunger and cravings. Then this gallbladder problem came out of nowhere. Although, it does run in my family. I've had to reduce my fat intake dramatically. I'm somewhat hopeful, but still worried, about what I'll be dealing with post-surgery.

LemonMarmalade

@bametels Please do not stress too hard over this surgery. I was nervous but I restarted my lchf diet days before surgery just to hopefully ease into post surgery lc. Thankfully, so far, i have not had any problems eating lchf without a gb at all. Since surgery, I have eaten fatty cuts of steak, salad with full fat dressings, Boston butt, fast food ( lc monster thick burgers, kfc grilled chicken), sausage with cheese... Etc

I am two weeks out of surgery today and my weight loss has started again...it's a beautiful thing to have no discomfort when eating!

After your surgery the first few days will be hard moving around in bed but healing is pretty fast. The healing is noticeable on a day by day after the 2nd or 3rd day out. I am probably at 90% and the last 10% will be the incisions healing since the glue has fallen off.

I pray you have a good experience and I hope you keep us informed on how you are doing!

bametels

Thanks for sharing this information, 5marshallsstrong! I'm glad that you are doing so well. Hopefully, my experience will mirror yours. I really want to continue eating LCHF. It's been hard to cut back on the fat these past few weeks but it's been necessary. I've continued to lose weight because I'm still keeping my carbs fairly low. Eating low carb and low fat means I'm eating about 500 fewer calories a day. Can't wait until this is over. It's not how I planned on starting my summer!

anglyn1

I had my gallbladder out 10 years ago. I have less stomach issues now on LCHF that I ever did eating high carb. I eat mostly fatty meats, butter, heavy cream, and occasional olive oil as fat sources. I don't care for coconut oil so I rarely eat it.

KnitOrMiss

WBB55 wrote: »

Hello folks, I'm 24 days into ketosis (based on ketostix confirmation of ketone bodies present in my urine). Average total carbs about 32/day, and for the most part things are fine, I'm over the worst of the flu issues. However, I'm still running into the issues I've had when I've tried to eat keto in the past, which is I'm clearly not digesting certain micros well, though I'm eating/supplementing them as highly as I dare without an actual MD/DO prescribing things.

My casual internet research leads me to believe sometimes folks without a gall bladder digest nutrients poorly on keto since they have more difficulty digesting fat. If I eat too much animal-based saturated fat all at once without sufficient fiber to slow it down, the results are disastrous cramping and sessions in the bathroom riding out the storm.

Does anyone have experience successfully convincing a gall bladder-less body to digest fat (and the micronutrients also present in the foods you eat). Or, if you don't have a gall bladder and haven't noticed these issues, describe to me the kinds of fat or meal schedule you eat.

Thanks for reading and any input.

@WBB55 - I could have written this letter. Rather than retype all of the recent stuff, here are the links to 3 recent related posts in group.

http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10385680/low-stomach-acid-indigestion-nutrient-absorption-issues#latest

http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10391838/gallbladder-issues-with-high-fat#latest

http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10388945/low-functioning-gallbladder#latest

@baconslave could we add references in the Sticky Post to the gallbladder posts? I keep having to go find them and give myself a headache doing it! LOL


That being said, my life has CHANGED since adding the digestive enzymes and ACV. My doctor just told me Tuesday that you can get ACV capsules when I expressed concern about the acid on my teeth.

http://www.nowfoods.com/Super-Enzymes-90-Capsules.htm

I got these to add to my routine, but I'm not sure if I like them yet. They're similar but not quite the same. http://www.amazon.com/Now-Foods-Betaine-HCl-Capsules (In reading more, looks like I might need to use more pills per meal, titered up...)

That was the suggestion @anglyn1 made, if I remember correctly, and she also link a site I can't find now that lead me to realized my stomach acid was low. This is another good discussion.

http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10372587/biotin-hair-loss#latest

KnitOrMiss

Sorry, realized I didn't include the pertinents. Had my gallbladder out at 24, 7 weeks after my daughter was born. I'll be 40 in a few weeks. I have hit a wall twice while on keto with my fats, malabsorption, all of that. Low stomach acid, possibly related to candida overgrowth/leaky gut. ACV and enzymes make all the difference.

I haven't added coconut or MCT oil back in yet, but I eat pretty much all the other healthy and saturated fats, as much as I want, and since I added these things back in, I'm GOLDEN. Helps with my supplement and nutrient absorption too. Let me know if I missed any of the original questions!

baconslave

KnitOrMiss wrote: »

WBB55 wrote: »

Hello folks, I'm 24 days into ketosis (based on ketostix confirmation of ketone bodies present in my urine). Average total carbs about 32/day, and for the most part things are fine, I'm over the worst of the flu issues. However, I'm still running into the issues I've had when I've tried to eat keto in the past, which is I'm clearly not digesting certain micros well, though I'm eating/supplementing them as highly as I dare without an actual MD/DO prescribing things.

My casual internet research leads me to believe sometimes folks without a gall bladder digest nutrients poorly on keto since they have more difficulty digesting fat. If I eat too much animal-based saturated fat all at once without sufficient fiber to slow it down, the results are disastrous cramping and sessions in the bathroom riding out the storm.

Does anyone have experience successfully convincing a gall bladder-less body to digest fat (and the micronutrients also present in the foods you eat). Or, if you don't have a gall bladder and haven't noticed these issues, describe to me the kinds of fat or meal schedule you eat.

Thanks for reading and any input.

@WBB55 - I could have written this letter. Rather than retype all of the recent stuff, here are the links to 3 recent related posts in group.

http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10385680/low-stomach-acid-indigestion-nutrient-absorption-issues#latest

http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10391838/gallbladder-issues-with-high-fat#latest

http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10388945/low-functioning-gallbladder#latest

@baconslave could we add references in the Sticky Post to the gallbladder posts? I keep having to go find them and give myself a headache doing it! LOL


That being said, my life has CHANGED since adding the digestive enzymes and ACV. My doctor just told me Tuesday that you can get ACV capsules when I expressed concern about the acid on my teeth.

http://www.nowfoods.com/Super-Enzymes-90-Capsules.htm

I got these to add to my routine, but I'm not sure if I like them yet. They're similar but not quite the same. http://www.amazon.com/Now-Foods-Betaine-HCl-Capsules (In reading more, looks like I might need to use more pills per meal, titered up...)

That was the suggestion @anglyn1 made, if I remember correctly, and she also link a site I can't find now that lead me to realized my stomach acid was low. This is another good discussion.

http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10372587/biotin-hair-loss#latest

NP. I'll get that done by the afternoon.

KnitOrMiss

You're the best, @baconslave!

bametels

Thank you, baconslave! This is so timely for me.

WBB55

@baconslave and @KnitOrMiss I appreciate the resources and your time.

KnitOrMiss

I hope this helps!! It literally has changed my life in the last couple months since I started!!!!

FitToLead

@baconslave and @KnitOrMiss Thanks so much for your efforts that benefit us all so much.

phxteach

My naturopathic doctor recommend a magnesium fulvic kind that does not cause diarrhea. It is a liquid.

Also Megazyme is an excellent product that helps digest your food. My mom found it helped relieve pain she lived with for years.

Best wishes on figuring out what works well.

KnitOrMiss

I give my thanks to @anglyn1 and @dragonwolf as they both pushed/prodded/suggested the ACV and digestive enzymes stuff. I can't voice enough how improved my side effects stuff is these days!!!!

baconslave

http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10402567/no-gallbladder-and-lchf?new=1

Under FAQs and General LC Info.
Also under Open Threads of Interest

baconslave

baconslave wrote: »

http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10402567/no-gallbladder-and-lchf?new=1

Under FAQs and General LC Info.
Also under Open Threads of Interest

Edited to better reflect the range of issues addressed, as @KnitOrMiss pointed out they are often quite interrelated issues.
http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10402567/gallbladder-stomach-distress-and-lchf#latest

KnitOrMiss

baconslave wrote: »

baconslave wrote: »

http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10402567/no-gallbladder-and-lchf?new=1

Under FAQs and General LC Info.
Also under Open Threads of Interest

Edited to better reflect the range of issues addressed, as @KnitOrMiss pointed out they are often quite interrelated issues.
http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10402567/gallbladder-stomach-distress-and-lchf#latest

@baconslave - Yay! Once again I'm a special kind of screwed up. LOL

KnitOrMiss

I finally found the link from @anglyn1. http://nobunplease.com/diarrhea-low-carb-keto-diet/

It was actually started on a thread about keto and diarrhea, so it took me forever to find it in my notes!

baconslave

I'll get it this afternoonish. Off to errand run.

bjwoodzy

Bumping for my friend, Megan @megzgoneaway

Aquawave

Lost my gall bladder 20 years ago. I am convinced it was due to a Dr ordered very low fat diet that I was on trying to lower my cholesterol. I have had three phantom attacks since then. Started my lchf diet 6 months ago and consume quite a bit of olive oil, coconut oil, butter, cheese and fatty food. I have had zero problems other than a stomach virus two weeks ago. In fact, sometimes am stopped up a bit and have had to add more fiber to my diet.

KnitOrMiss

@Aquawave - I had my gallbladder out in 2000. I did not start having issues with my diet until what 7-9 months on full keto...and again with my reboots. So just stay aware that issues can develop, but it's not guaranteed that they will or won't.

MissyCHF

My gallbladder was removed in 1977, no keyhole surgery then so I just have the scar to remind me. I seldom suffer from indigestion. I am more than happy to be rid of it.