Low carb, and non-diabetic reactive hypoglycemia
aylajane
Posts: 979 Member
I am not ultra low carb. I try to keep my total carbs under 100 because any more than that and I want to eat my arm off all day - the hunger is out of control. I have no in between - either I eat close to 100g or I end up eating 200+ because its is impossible to control. And I have a harder time maintaining my weight when I allow them to go higher (I could stand to lose 3-5 pounds, but not really trying - just dont want to gain).
The tough part for me is that I have reactive hypoglycemia... When I get up in the morning, I can go as long as I want without eating for the most part. I get hungry of course, but I can push it off and feel fine. The trouble starts the minute I eat anything - if I don't include some carbs, I will end up shaky and faint and anxiety-ridden. I feel like if I dont eat something like a candy bar, I will literally die (that is the panic state in my head). I dont like chocolate, but for some reason occasionally ONLY a snickers bar will do for me to "fix" this. The problem is that I over-react and eat too many carbs to squelch the feeling, then less than an hour later I crash hard (my BG will drop to near 40) and am right back in that panic mode.
All the advice for Reactive Hypo has to do with spreading your carbs throughout the day, etc. They tend to recommend 30-50g or so at each of 3 meals and 15-25 for snacks, so about 120g-150g depending on what you read. But much over 100 puts me in that constant hunger state. So my best effort right now is trying to figure out a ratio of carbs to protein/fat when I eat that will be enough carbs to not get shaky/panic, but not so many I crash or get that hunger monster.
Right now I am try to keep carbs about 10-15 per meal or snack, and keep the calories right around 300 for each meal snack. I eat 5-6 times a day (goal is about 1800-2000 calories a day in general). I also try not to eat as long as possible in the morning - I get up around 4am, so if I end up hungry all day I can easily hit 2500-3000 calories (I am 5'5" and 140 lbs, lots of muscle but not that much!).
I am definitely in experiment mode. But I have had a few days lately where I ended up with 250-300g carbs because of this roller coaster and extreme panic mode! A few days were much easier, I wasnt hungry and managed to keep control all day without panicking. I keep trying to figure out the pattern.
Protein and fat do not seem to be "satisfying" to me. I can eat bacon until I am literally bursting at the seams and still feel that panic-mode until I eat a few crackers - then I am ok. So I know I can up the fat, but it doesnt raise my BG enough I think? And protein doesnt satisfy me. I am hopeful I find a meal that would be high fat to satisfy me, and high enough protein to raise my BG and low enough carbs to keep the carb hunger monster at bay - I just havent found the ideal number setup yet.
Sorry for the long confusing intro
Just seeing if anyone had any experience with this, or other things to try.
Thanks in Advance!
The tough part for me is that I have reactive hypoglycemia... When I get up in the morning, I can go as long as I want without eating for the most part. I get hungry of course, but I can push it off and feel fine. The trouble starts the minute I eat anything - if I don't include some carbs, I will end up shaky and faint and anxiety-ridden. I feel like if I dont eat something like a candy bar, I will literally die (that is the panic state in my head). I dont like chocolate, but for some reason occasionally ONLY a snickers bar will do for me to "fix" this. The problem is that I over-react and eat too many carbs to squelch the feeling, then less than an hour later I crash hard (my BG will drop to near 40) and am right back in that panic mode.
All the advice for Reactive Hypo has to do with spreading your carbs throughout the day, etc. They tend to recommend 30-50g or so at each of 3 meals and 15-25 for snacks, so about 120g-150g depending on what you read. But much over 100 puts me in that constant hunger state. So my best effort right now is trying to figure out a ratio of carbs to protein/fat when I eat that will be enough carbs to not get shaky/panic, but not so many I crash or get that hunger monster.
Right now I am try to keep carbs about 10-15 per meal or snack, and keep the calories right around 300 for each meal snack. I eat 5-6 times a day (goal is about 1800-2000 calories a day in general). I also try not to eat as long as possible in the morning - I get up around 4am, so if I end up hungry all day I can easily hit 2500-3000 calories (I am 5'5" and 140 lbs, lots of muscle but not that much!).
I am definitely in experiment mode. But I have had a few days lately where I ended up with 250-300g carbs because of this roller coaster and extreme panic mode! A few days were much easier, I wasnt hungry and managed to keep control all day without panicking. I keep trying to figure out the pattern.
Protein and fat do not seem to be "satisfying" to me. I can eat bacon until I am literally bursting at the seams and still feel that panic-mode until I eat a few crackers - then I am ok. So I know I can up the fat, but it doesnt raise my BG enough I think? And protein doesnt satisfy me. I am hopeful I find a meal that would be high fat to satisfy me, and high enough protein to raise my BG and low enough carbs to keep the carb hunger monster at bay - I just havent found the ideal number setup yet.
Sorry for the long confusing intro
Just seeing if anyone had any experience with this, or other things to try.
Thanks in Advance!
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Replies
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I know the feels at the ~100g carb level. After a few practice runs, I've gone full keto. The reactive hypoglycemia and hunger is next to non-existent.
One other thought is to eat two times per day. BIG meals. Spaced out 12 hours apart. Making sure to eat fiber and fat and protein in equal portions at each meal. Your body will eventually learn to deal with the blood sugar at those times. And then the rest of the day keep your cals to <10/hr. Broth, tea, coffee with a little cream...5 -
Contrary to conventional belief, reactive hypoglycemia is essentially a form of diabetes. It's basically the very early stages. Basically, your body over produces insulin when eating and causes your blood sugar to crash. You can go for as long as you want without eating, because the internal mechanisms of keeping blood sugar up are still working properly. It's just the reaction to food that is malfunctioning right now.
(Doctors won't tell it to you that way, because most of them don't recognize it for what it is. Knowledge of glucose/insulin related disorders is surprisingly abysmal, especially among general practitioners.)
The good news is, though, you can correct it with low carb. A good way of doing it might be this:
Base your meals around meat and non-starchy vegetables. That should be where the bulk of you calories and food volume come from. Eat these, first, too. Then, add in a small serving of a "good" starch. Rice, sweet potato, oats, etc. These are starches with good fiber contents. Try to keep with whole foods (as opposed to refined stuff like crackers and pasta), and try to eat only enough to keep your blood sugar from crashing.
For all intents and purposes, this is basically the "slow carb" method. Slow carb is a way of eating that doesn't limit carbs as much (around 100g is common), but focuses on fibrous carb sources.
Now, you can stay there if you want and are having success with it. Or, you can start weaning off of the starch. You might have to go slowly, but start by taking a couple of tablespoons less every few days. Alternatively, monitor your blood glucose as though you were diabetic (read: closely), and reduce your starch portion according to the response on the meter.6 -
Thank you both! I have some things to think about and research and try.
Probably some background would have been helpful - I was obese most of my life, and had HBP and was more than likely on my way to T2D. But nearly 5 years ago I had WLS (sleeve). So I have a very small stomach. I read at the time that reactive hypo was a common consequence since when you start eating your body releases insulin in expectation of a certain amount of food (which pre-surgery would have been true). But then when you only eat a tiny amount, you still have all that insulin and it causes a crash.
I did read that 2-3 high volume meals spaced very far apart could really help this - so you eat an "appropriate" amount of food for the insulin released. But obviously, my stomach is not going to allow that. And in the first few years after surgery you almost have to eat fairly often to get enough calories (at least I did to support heavy weight lifting). So that probably exacerbated the condition. I did try something like this a year or two ago, and it failed since I couldnt really eat enough and was really hungry after just 2-3 hours. But I have NOT tried it with a high fat/low volume type of meal. I wasnt really following along with this then, so I am sure my "meal" was not high fat. I will have to see what I can work out that I can eat . Given it has been 5 years, my capacity is somewhat higher now, so it might be possible!
I tried Dargonwolf's approproach somewhat today and I think it was helpful! I ate about 5 oz chicken (a LOT for me) along with almost one serving of lentils (in a thick chili-like soup) where I made sure I got all the chicken in first. The lentils were enough carbs I didnt crash, and I made it about 3-4 hours before I was hungry, and no real crash. I cannot really eat a lot of veggies though... Broccoli, cauliflower, carrots - my taste buds and my stomach have changed a lot since surgery, and I have a really hard time just getting these down. It is an effort just to swallow them. I also tend to avoid them because they have soooo few calories but take up so much room - I struggled for a year to work up to 2000 calories a day, and there was just no way to fit those in and make it, given my capacity issues. I have been trying to work in more vegetable-type food, but the traditional ones just wont happen.
I will see if I can work out a "perfect" day on paper - combining a little of both approaches... Eating less often, but more at one time, concentrating on higher fat with the protein and smaller volume and make sure I have some kind of less processed carb to end with... If I can work out a few staple meals I am really good at routine
One more question for you both! I also have exercise-induced hypo... So halfway through a workout or training session, I get dizzy/faint/see stars and get a little weaker - especially after lifting really heavy. I have tried eating various things before, and not eating for a few hours before with mixed success. I also tried putting some diluted gatorade in my water bottle with a little success. Any suggestions?0 -
I completely agree with reactive hypo being a form of diabetes. As I had this and am now diabetic, I wish I had gone lower carb back then. It is important that you test your glucose every meal for a while to get a real picture of how your body reacts to food. Test in 30 min increments. You may also wish to use supplements. I highly recommend the book Prescription for Nutritional Healing which lists recommended behaviors as well as supplements. Best of luck.
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One more question for you both! I also have exercise-induced hypo... So halfway through a workout or training session, I get dizzy/faint/see stars and get a little weaker - especially after lifting really heavy. I have tried eating various things before, and not eating for a few hours before with mixed success. I also tried putting some diluted gatorade in my water bottle with a little success. Any suggestions?
Hrm...that sounds more like a blood pressure issue than a sugar issue. I think you're on the right track with the diluted Gatorade, but unfortunately, Gatorade itself isn't actually great for electrolytes.
Have a look around here and on the internet for "keto-ade." It's a keto-friendly electrolyte drink that might prove useful for you. Also, sodium, potassium, and/or magnesium supplements might be useful for you, as well.3 -
I was going to say the same thing about the hypo being the beginning stage of what leads to diabetes. Hyperinsulinemia.
I tried to explain to my sister a couple years ago that the advice from her doctor to "eat more carbs" to prevent the hypos was the dumbest thing I've ever heard in my life but she didn't believe me. I told her she was going to end up with diabetes if she kept treating her hypos the way that doctor told her. She got defensive and said "I don't have high blood sugar! I have low blood sugar!" Unfortunately I didn't know to explain it to her well back then as I was just discovering how this stuff works.
Fast forward and she's diabetic now with an A1c of over 9 last I knew.
She still won't try low carb because "diet pop tastes bad"... Really. That's the actual reason. Smh
Anyway, my T1D daughter, on an insulin pump, has started Keto a few months ago, and has been using nuts to treat lows when she ends up taking too much insulin or is more active and goes low. That's completely against the typical advice of using glucose tablets or candy. Your liver will give you some glucose too so using the smallest amount of slow carbs can help get it back up without setting up a new crash. But, you do need to keep checking your bg while you're treating it to make sure that it does start responding. She can turn her insulin off, and makes none of her own, yours may not stop fast enough and you may need something faster acting at times. But using something like glucose tablets or smarties can help prevent you from going overboard and control the sugar dosage.2 -
I am not ultra low carb. I try to keep my total carbs under 100 because any more than that and I want to eat my arm off all day - the hunger is out of control. I have no in between - either I eat close to 100g or I end up eating 200+ because its is impossible to control. And I have a harder time maintaining my weight when I allow them to go higher (I could stand to lose 3-5 pounds, but not really trying - just dont want to gain).
The tough part for me is that I have reactive hypoglycemia... When I get up in the morning, I can go as long as I want without eating for the most part. I get hungry of course, but I can push it off and feel fine. The trouble starts the minute I eat anything - if I don't include some carbs, I will end up shaky and faint and anxiety-ridden. I feel like if I dont eat something like a candy bar, I will literally die (that is the panic state in my head). I dont like chocolate, but for some reason occasionally ONLY a snickers bar will do for me to "fix" this. The problem is that I over-react and eat too many carbs to squelch the feeling, then less than an hour later I crash hard (my BG will drop to near 40) and am right back in that panic mode.
All the advice for Reactive Hypo has to do with spreading your carbs throughout the day, etc. They tend to recommend 30-50g or so at each of 3 meals and 15-25 for snacks, so about 120g-150g depending on what you read. But much over 100 puts me in that constant hunger state. So my best effort right now is trying to figure out a ratio of carbs to protein/fat when I eat that will be enough carbs to not get shaky/panic, but not so many I crash or get that hunger monster.
Right now I am try to keep carbs about 10-15 per meal or snack, and keep the calories right around 300 for each meal snack. I eat 5-6 times a day (goal is about 1800-2000 calories a day in general). I also try not to eat as long as possible in the morning - I get up around 4am, so if I end up hungry all day I can easily hit 2500-3000 calories (I am 5'5" and 140 lbs, lots of muscle but not that much!).
I am definitely in experiment mode. But I have had a few days lately where I ended up with 250-300g carbs because of this roller coaster and extreme panic mode! A few days were much easier, I wasnt hungry and managed to keep control all day without panicking. I keep trying to figure out the pattern.
Protein and fat do not seem to be "satisfying" to me. I can eat bacon until I am literally bursting at the seams and still feel that panic-mode until I eat a few crackers - then I am ok. So I know I can up the fat, but it doesnt raise my BG enough I think? And protein doesnt satisfy me. I am hopeful I find a meal that would be high fat to satisfy me, and high enough protein to raise my BG and low enough carbs to keep the carb hunger monster at bay - I just havent found the ideal number setup yet.
Sorry for the long confusing intro
Just seeing if anyone had any experience with this, or other things to try.
Thanks in Advance!
WHen you start shaking, did you check your blood glucose levels with a BG meter? If so, what was the reading?
If not, why not?
And are you taking any meds?
I hope this helps,
Dan the Man from Michigan
Keto / The Recipe Water Fasting / E.A.S.Y. Exercise Program
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I have had reactive hypoglycaemia for decades, many many years before I was prediabetic or at all overweight. It definitely became more noticeable in the past few years. I was getting the shakes every few hours!
When I went keto a year ago, it completely disappeared after a week. Gone. Once I was no longer relying on glucose for my fuel, I no longer had dips in blood glucose. My energy was steady.
If you do eat a fair bit of carbs, making sure they are slow carbs, and pairing them with protein and fat, will help.2 -
Dragonwolf wrote: »One more question for you both! I also have exercise-induced hypo... So halfway through a workout or training session, I get dizzy/faint/see stars and get a little weaker - especially after lifting really heavy. I have tried eating various things before, and not eating for a few hours before with mixed success. I also tried putting some diluted gatorade in my water bottle with a little success. Any suggestions?
Hrm...that sounds more like a blood pressure issue than a sugar issue. I think you're on the right track with the diluted Gatorade, but unfortunately, Gatorade itself isn't actually great for electrolytes.
Have a look around here and on the internet for "keto-ade." It's a keto-friendly electrolyte drink that might prove useful for you. Also, sodium, potassium, and/or magnesium supplements might be useful for you, as well.
I do take Magnesium supplements, and the gatorade was more for sugar since I assumed it was BG related not BP related! I definitely have some position low BP, so that is very possible! I will try using a meter to confirm whether it is or is not BG related next time! Thank you for the idea...
I probably do need sodium and potassium - I need to go back and see what my trends are with those. I will look into the keto-ade! THank you!1 -
Sunny_Bunny_ wrote: »I was going to say the same thing about the hypo being the beginning stage of what leads to diabetes. Hyperinsulinemia.
I tried to explain to my sister a couple years ago that the advice from her doctor to "eat more carbs" to prevent the hypos was the dumbest thing I've ever heard in my life but she didn't believe me. I told her she was going to end up with diabetes if she kept treating her hypos the way that doctor told her. She got defensive and said "I don't have high blood sugar! I have low blood sugar!" Unfortunately I didn't know to explain it to her well back then as I was just discovering how this stuff works.
Fast forward and she's diabetic now with an A1c of over 9 last I knew.
She still won't try low carb because "diet pop tastes bad"... Really. That's the actual reason. Smh
Anyway, my T1D daughter, on an insulin pump, has started Keto a few months ago, and has been using nuts to treat lows when she ends up taking too much insulin or is more active and goes low. That's completely against the typical advice of using glucose tablets or candy. Your liver will give you some glucose too so using the smallest amount of slow carbs can help get it back up without setting up a new crash. But, you do need to keep checking your bg while you're treating it to make sure that it does start responding. She can turn her insulin off, and makes none of her own, yours may not stop fast enough and you may need something faster acting at times. But using something like glucose tablets or smarties can help prevent you from going overboard and control the sugar dosage.
Actually that is something I tried this week and I think it works somewhat! I bought some glucose tablets (20 cals, 4g carbs/sugar) and a few times this week when I had a good meal of protein/fat and was perfectly (over) full but still starting to get that panic feeling and constantly thinking about food, I slowly ate a tab. I tried to wait a few minutes but it didnt do much, so I ate another. That did the trick - about 8g carbs apparently (at least of pure sugar). I dont want to rely on that if I can work out the proper slower carbs, but they are a good backup for when I dont have time to get it perfectly right. Thank you!
ANd yes, using sugar to combat lows is terrible - that whole roller coaster thing! But in the moment, you literally feel like your heart will explode if you dont get something RIGHT NOW, so its hard to make good choices! Planning ahead is a must I think....0 -
WHen you start shaking, did you check your blood glucose levels with a BG meter? If so, what was the reading?
If not, why not?
And are you taking any meds?
I hope this helps,
Dan the Man from Michigan
Keto / The Recipe Water Fasting / E.A.S.Y. Exercise Program
Yes I did for several days (my mom and her husband are both T2D and live with me - we have a dozen meters around the house!). The readings range from 40-55 usually during those times. One particular day where I was truly seeing actual stars it was 38. I have also taken my BG other times to get a baseline, including first thing in the morning with no food, and those range in the low to mid 70s most of the time. After eating within the first hour it will get in the 80-90 range, and once in a great while (probably food dependent) it will hit 100. But rarely any higher. The highest I have EVER seen it is 111.
I am on no meds, though working on supplements - I take all powdered/instantized/ionized/easily absorable ones that you mix with water to dissolve first, so that i get a little better absorption since things dont stay in my stomach long. I take a multi vitamin/mineral one in the morning, a D complex around noon and a Magnesium complex at night.
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I have had reactive hypoglycaemia for decades, many many years before I was prediabetic or at all overweight. It definitely became more noticeable in the past few years. I was getting the shakes every few hours!
When I went keto a year ago, it completely disappeared after a week. Gone. Once I was no longer relying on glucose for my fuel, I no longer had dips in blood glucose. My energy was steady.
If you do eat a fair bit of carbs, making sure they are slow carbs, and pairing them with protein and fat, will help.
That is awesome! I am trying to switch to "slow" carbs - I dont know that I can go full on keto, but I might if I baby step down to it. I like the energy levels I have at 100g carbs, and I dont have a good 1-2 months where I can allow myself to go through the "keto-flu" and adaption periods yet. Maybe next year I will have a lull time where low energy for a bit wont matter, but definitely do not right now! So 100g is my "sweet spot" at the moment, but I definitely need to work on switching to better carbs to fill those - I think that is my issue, along with the timing of them and how they are spread.
Lots of great ideas here, so its just the experimenting and documenting and interpretting I need to work on
Thanks everyone!0 -
I have had reactive hypoglycaemia for decades, many many years before I was prediabetic or at all overweight. It definitely became more noticeable in the past few years. I was getting the shakes every few hours!
When I went keto a year ago, it completely disappeared after a week. Gone. Once I was no longer relying on glucose for my fuel, I no longer had dips in blood glucose. My energy was steady.
If you do eat a fair bit of carbs, making sure they are slow carbs, and pairing them with protein and fat, will help.
That is awesome! I am trying to switch to "slow" carbs - I dont know that I can go full on keto, but I might if I baby step down to it. I like the energy levels I have at 100g carbs, and I dont have a good 1-2 months where I can allow myself to go through the "keto-flu" and adaption periods yet. Maybe next year I will have a lull time where low energy for a bit wont matter, but definitely do not right now! So 100g is my "sweet spot" at the moment, but I definitely need to work on switching to better carbs to fill those - I think that is my issue, along with the timing of them and how they are spread.
Lots of great ideas here, so its just the experimenting and documenting and interpretting I need to work on
Thanks everyone!
Keto flu is entirely preventable, because it's just a drop in electrolytes. Keep sodium and potassium up and you'll be fine.3 -
I've had reactive hypoglycemia since childhood. Going LCHF seemed to do the trick for me, but I consume more in the neighborhood of 50-80 g per day. It is possible that 100 g is simply still too high for you. I second the notion that the keto flu is preventable, and it is not likely to last more than a week or two, if that, especially since you already eat lowish carb.1
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I have had reactive hypoglycaemia for decades, many many years before I was prediabetic or at all overweight. It definitely became more noticeable in the past few years. I was getting the shakes every few hours!
When I went keto a year ago, it completely disappeared after a week. Gone. Once I was no longer relying on glucose for my fuel, I no longer had dips in blood glucose. My energy was steady.
If you do eat a fair bit of carbs, making sure they are slow carbs, and pairing them with protein and fat, will help.
That is awesome! I am trying to switch to "slow" carbs - I dont know that I can go full on keto, but I might if I baby step down to it. I like the energy levels I have at 100g carbs, and I dont have a good 1-2 months where I can allow myself to go through the "keto-flu" and adaption periods yet. Maybe next year I will have a lull time where low energy for a bit wont matter, but definitely do not right now! So 100g is my "sweet spot" at the moment, but I definitely need to work on switching to better carbs to fill those - I think that is my issue, along with the timing of them and how they are spread.
Lots of great ideas here, so its just the experimenting and documenting and interpretting I need to work on
Thanks everyone!
Like @Dragonwolf said, keto flu is not mandatory. I went through it because I couldn't believe that increasing sodium to 3000-5000 mg per day could help, but as soon as I did it I felt very good. For me, replacing the lost salt meant adding a partial teaspoon of salt to a cup of water in the morning. I even grew to like the taste of it. LOL
Anyway, if keto interests you, don't let the possible threat of an electrolyte imbalance scare you off - it is completely preventable. 1 -
I've knocked myself out of keto a couple times, and re-entering ketosis/fat adaption was no big deal, including energy levels, with good planning, especially since you're already low carb. Your body knows what to do, you just need to remind it.1
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If you feel any "Keto flu" symptoms at all, you can pretty much remedy it within 15 minutes. There's no reason to go weeks, days or even hours feeling lightheaded, tired or foggy. It's absolutely preventable and quickly corrected if you happen to experience it.
I've said it many times that I don't even like the term "Keto flu" because it seems to be spoken of as it's a given. That you're going to have it and it's going to last weeks and there's nothing you can do about it. That's a bunch of baloney! I never experienced even an hour of any of those symptoms because I was lucky enough to find out about it before I even started.
Anyway, the way you describe feeling upon working out, is what Keto flu is. Electrolyte imbalance. So it can be experienced at any low carb level. Just have to be more proactive with sodium if you plan to run on ketones.1 -
Wow ok so maybe I will go ahead and give it a shot sooner! I am still a little worried about energy levels, and the whole dizzy thing, plus my life is kind of a disaster of events at the moment that dont allow me to organize and cook and be as prepared like I want... So I will spend a few weeks planning my approach (including SODIUM!) and pick a "start" date that will be as reasonable as possible.
I will also need to make up a WRITTEN list of what to do when I start to feel the panic (because part of the panic mode is that my brain does not function normally, so I cant make entirely rational decisions - its all impulsive save-my-life at that exact moment) as well as options for if I start to feel the "keto-flu", what options for sodium I can keep readily available, and what I can do proactively to try and prevent it.
I will also spend the next few weeks experimenting with options during workouts and see if I can resolve that sooner.
Thank you everyone! You have all been incredibly helpful 2 -
You might want to ease into it to avoid any panic or shocking your body. Lower you carbs every few weeks or days, and then you'll know that you can handle it fine. No need to slash carbs all at once. 5
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Wow ok so maybe I will go ahead and give it a shot sooner! I am still a little worried about energy levels, and the whole dizzy thing, plus my life is kind of a disaster of events at the moment that dont allow me to organize and cook and be as prepared like I want... So I will spend a few weeks planning my approach (including SODIUM!) and pick a "start" date that will be as reasonable as possible.
I will also need to make up a WRITTEN list of what to do when I start to feel the panic (because part of the panic mode is that my brain does not function normally, so I cant make entirely rational decisions - its all impulsive save-my-life at that exact moment) as well as options for if I start to feel the "keto-flu", what options for sodium I can keep readily available, and what I can do proactively to try and prevent it.
I will also spend the next few weeks experimenting with options during workouts and see if I can resolve that sooner.
Thank you everyone! You have all been incredibly helpful
And don't forget, it doesn't have to be 20g. 50g or less is considered Keto. Some can do it at a higher level but with your carb sensitivity, I suspect you'll improve your insulin resistance even faster if you go as low as you can manage. But do think of what you can do comfortably going forward also.
If nothing else, it should be an enlightening experiment. 2 -
Sunny_Bunny_ wrote: »Wow ok so maybe I will go ahead and give it a shot sooner! I am still a little worried about energy levels, and the whole dizzy thing, plus my life is kind of a disaster of events at the moment that dont allow me to organize and cook and be as prepared like I want... So I will spend a few weeks planning my approach (including SODIUM!) and pick a "start" date that will be as reasonable as possible.
I will also need to make up a WRITTEN list of what to do when I start to feel the panic (because part of the panic mode is that my brain does not function normally, so I cant make entirely rational decisions - its all impulsive save-my-life at that exact moment) as well as options for if I start to feel the "keto-flu", what options for sodium I can keep readily available, and what I can do proactively to try and prevent it.
I will also spend the next few weeks experimenting with options during workouts and see if I can resolve that sooner.
Thank you everyone! You have all been incredibly helpful
And don't forget, it doesn't have to be 20g. 50g or less is considered Keto. Some can do it at a higher level but with your carb sensitivity, I suspect you'll improve your insulin resistance even faster if you go as low as you can manage. But do think of what you can do comfortably going forward also.
If nothing else, it should be an enlightening experiment.
Yes - i will definitely be starting out at the upper end - I might even try stepping down - 70-80 first, then 50-60, etc with a few weeks at each. Not real sure yet. I am excited to get some real data
Oh and just because I am so excited about even small victories - I had my lunch about an hour and a half ago - 2 turkey sausages with cheese and a small bowl of madras lentils - 340 cals, 16 fat, 25 protein and 20 carbs (hopefully the better kind). And an hour later not only am I full and satisfied but so far no shakes and not hunting for food Wow. I need about a dozen more combos like that lol. I am going to see how long I can go this afternoon without eating before I either get the shakes (I dont think is going to happen) or I get really hungry. I think I will buy the pork sausage next time instead of turkey - that will make it 500 calories, with 38 fat, 21 protein and 16 carbs. ANd compare if the increase in calories and fat let me go even longer, and still not get the shakes despite a small drop in carbs - and with identical volume . 5 -
Awesome! 2
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One more question for you both! I also have exercise-induced hypo... So halfway through a workout or training session, I get dizzy/faint/see stars and get a little weaker - especially after lifting really heavy. I have tried eating various things before, and not eating for a few hours before with mixed success. I also tried putting some diluted gatorade in my water bottle with a little success. Any suggestions?
I experienced that while on Metformin after dropping a bit of weight and that caused me to go off of it completely to avoid the problem. What did help a little while I was on the med was to suck on a Werther's caramel during the workout or try a roll of Smartees before you start the workout. I'd go through 2 or 3 caramel's during the workout and that seemed to get me through.
Crashing during the workout really sucks and I was seeing 50 point drops without crashing at times. Cardio workouts were fine, but strength/fitness training caused a huge problem.
Good luck!1 -
Sunny_Bunny_ wrote: »Wow ok so maybe I will go ahead and give it a shot sooner! I am still a little worried about energy levels, and the whole dizzy thing, plus my life is kind of a disaster of events at the moment that dont allow me to organize and cook and be as prepared like I want... So I will spend a few weeks planning my approach (including SODIUM!) and pick a "start" date that will be as reasonable as possible.
I will also need to make up a WRITTEN list of what to do when I start to feel the panic (because part of the panic mode is that my brain does not function normally, so I cant make entirely rational decisions - its all impulsive save-my-life at that exact moment) as well as options for if I start to feel the "keto-flu", what options for sodium I can keep readily available, and what I can do proactively to try and prevent it.
I will also spend the next few weeks experimenting with options during workouts and see if I can resolve that sooner.
Thank you everyone! You have all been incredibly helpful
And don't forget, it doesn't have to be 20g. 50g or less is considered Keto. Some can do it at a higher level but with your carb sensitivity, I suspect you'll improve your insulin resistance even faster if you go as low as you can manage. But do think of what you can do comfortably going forward also.
If nothing else, it should be an enlightening experiment.
Yes - i will definitely be starting out at the upper end - I might even try stepping down - 70-80 first, then 50-60, etc with a few weeks at each. Not real sure yet. I am excited to get some real data
Oh and just because I am so excited about even small victories - I had my lunch about an hour and a half ago - 2 turkey sausages with cheese and a small bowl of madras lentils - 340 cals, 16 fat, 25 protein and 20 carbs (hopefully the better kind). And an hour later not only am I full and satisfied but so far no shakes and not hunting for food Wow. I need about a dozen more combos like that lol. I am going to see how long I can go this afternoon without eating before I either get the shakes (I dont think is going to happen) or I get really hungry. I think I will buy the pork sausage next time instead of turkey - that will make it 500 calories, with 38 fat, 21 protein and 16 carbs. ANd compare if the increase in calories and fat let me go even longer, and still not get the shakes despite a small drop in carbs - and with identical volume .
Awesome! Sounds like a good plan with the sausage too.
Very excited for you!2 -
One more question for you both! I also have exercise-induced hypo... So halfway through a workout or training session, I get dizzy/faint/see stars and get a little weaker - especially after lifting really heavy. I have tried eating various things before, and not eating for a few hours before with mixed success. I also tried putting some diluted gatorade in my water bottle with a little success. Any suggestions?
I experienced that while on Metformin after dropping a bit of weight and that caused me to go off of it completely to avoid the problem. What did help a little while I was on the med was to suck on a Werther's caramel during the workout or try a roll of Smartees before you start the workout. I'd go through 2 or 3 caramel's during the workout and that seemed to get me through.
Crashing during the workout really sucks and I was seeing 50 point drops without crashing at times. Cardio workouts were fine, but strength/fitness training caused a huge problem.
Good luck!
I am very similar! I can walk/run on the treadmill for 30 minutes with no issues, but a few heavy deadlifts and I can barely stand up. I am still not sure now if it is sugar related, electrolyte related, blood pressure related. I plan to experiment a little. I may try the caramel thing as one part of the experiment - that would be awesome if it worked because I love those but want to try the keto-ade too, and check my sugar during the workout to see if it is really even that.
Total side note - when I was first trying to "run" (at age 43, first time in my life and swore I couldnt because my jaw would hurt and I would get side stitches and gasp for air) I kept trying to get up to 2 miles at once and just could not do more than a few minutes at a time... One day I had a cough left over from a cold and put a methol type lemon cough drop in my mouth as I was starting. HOLY COW! 1) it forced me to close my mouth while running and breath through my nose - which I could never do before and mouth breathing is what made my jaw hurt and (2) the methol cleared up my sinuses so much breathing through my nose was easy. I made it the whole two miles in one shot that day for the first time. It was AWESOME Lol - now I keep a stash
Hey - those have a little sugar in them, I may try them in my experimenting too with weights! 1 -
Sunny_Bunny_ wrote: »Sunny_Bunny_ wrote: »Wow ok so maybe I will go ahead and give it a shot sooner! I am still a little worried about energy levels, and the whole dizzy thing, plus my life is kind of a disaster of events at the moment that dont allow me to organize and cook and be as prepared like I want... So I will spend a few weeks planning my approach (including SODIUM!) and pick a "start" date that will be as reasonable as possible.
I will also need to make up a WRITTEN list of what to do when I start to feel the panic (because part of the panic mode is that my brain does not function normally, so I cant make entirely rational decisions - its all impulsive save-my-life at that exact moment) as well as options for if I start to feel the "keto-flu", what options for sodium I can keep readily available, and what I can do proactively to try and prevent it.
I will also spend the next few weeks experimenting with options during workouts and see if I can resolve that sooner.
Thank you everyone! You have all been incredibly helpful
And don't forget, it doesn't have to be 20g. 50g or less is considered Keto. Some can do it at a higher level but with your carb sensitivity, I suspect you'll improve your insulin resistance even faster if you go as low as you can manage. But do think of what you can do comfortably going forward also.
If nothing else, it should be an enlightening experiment.
Yes - i will definitely be starting out at the upper end - I might even try stepping down - 70-80 first, then 50-60, etc with a few weeks at each. Not real sure yet. I am excited to get some real data
Oh and just because I am so excited about even small victories - I had my lunch about an hour and a half ago - 2 turkey sausages with cheese and a small bowl of madras lentils - 340 cals, 16 fat, 25 protein and 20 carbs (hopefully the better kind). And an hour later not only am I full and satisfied but so far no shakes and not hunting for food Wow. I need about a dozen more combos like that lol. I am going to see how long I can go this afternoon without eating before I either get the shakes (I dont think is going to happen) or I get really hungry. I think I will buy the pork sausage next time instead of turkey - that will make it 500 calories, with 38 fat, 21 protein and 16 carbs. ANd compare if the increase in calories and fat let me go even longer, and still not get the shakes despite a small drop in carbs - and with identical volume .
Awesome! Sounds like a good plan with the sausage too.
Very excited for you!
Me too! I have hope for a change And tons of things to try - I was thinking I was running out of options 2 -
Sounds like you have gotten great advice already so I'm just here to cheer you on. Dang it this thing deleted my whole post
keep us updated! 2 -
safety reminder: please do not operate machinery, cars when you are low. Your lows are pretty severe! Glad you are planning ahead .2
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safety reminder: please do not operate machinery, cars when you are low. Your lows are pretty severe! Glad you are planning ahead .
Oh I know - I actually had a blood test (routine blood work) at the docs office and then left to go home one morning. They called me as I was walking in the door and said "if you are driving, pull over" lol - by BG was 40 on their test. But actually that was one time I didnt feel it other than being a little weak.
I keep snacks in the car just for this occasion, and I have a deathly fear of getting on an elevator with no food - if it breaks down, I *need* to have food with me 0 -
WHen you start shaking, did you check your blood glucose levels with a BG meter? If so, what was the reading?
If not, why not?
And are you taking any meds?
I hope this helps,
Dan the Man from Michigan
Keto / The Recipe Water Fasting / E.A.S.Y. Exercise Program
Yes I did for several days (my mom and her husband are both T2D and live with me - we have a dozen meters around the house!). The readings range from 40-55 usually during those times. One particular day where I was truly seeing actual stars it was 38. I have also taken my BG other times to get a baseline, including first thing in the morning with no food, and those range in the low to mid 70s most of the time. After eating within the first hour it will get in the 80-90 range, and once in a great while (probably food dependent) it will hit 100. But rarely any higher. The highest I have EVER seen it is 111.
I am on no meds, though working on supplements - I take all powdered/instantized/ionized/easily absorable ones that you mix with water to dissolve first, so that i get a little better absorption since things dont stay in my stomach long. I take a multi vitamin/mineral one in the morning, a D complex around noon and a Magnesium complex at night.
Thats the opposite of me (bg levels)... but when I was taking diabetic meds, (insulin) I would go low all the time. Dozens of times. It is one of the worst feelings I have ever had.
The very worst time I went low (I live alone), once I woke up in the middle of the night, after several minutes of trying to think, I checked my BG and it registered a 19! By the grace of God, I made it to the fridge to eat something sugary.
Since you don't have trouble with high BG (almost everyone on this discussion group tries to get their BG's down)...Are you a skinny person?
I finally made it off all my meds with low carb/keto:
How I Got Off of Diabetic Prescriptions Drugs Since I Started Keto
In metabolic syndrome, our BG's go high, the body stores the sugar/carbs as fat and we gain weight. That's why most on this group ~ do low carb (and among many other health benefits) ~ we don't give our bodies a chance to go high.
I believe all these metabolic issues stem from a screwed up microbiota in our digestive system. I suspect one day the scientists will determine how correct it through a blend of probiotics.
Have you looked into gut microbiota? Their are some very healthy probiotic foods you could try, Milk Kefir is a very good one, its easy to make, and is a superfood. Kombucha if you're not doing dairy. Fermented foods and broad spectrum probiotics help too.
I hope this helps,
Dan the Man from Michigan
Keto / The Recipe Water Fasting / E.A.S.Y. Exercise Program
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