Is fat really necessary when low carbing?
witcherkar
Posts: 138 Member
I hace to track calories. I feel to out of control. If I eat low carb low fat and moderate protein, will I still have the same desired effects?
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Replies
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You will find this very difficult. By eating higher fat you are replacing the fuel you are no longer getting from carbs. If you eat very little fat AND carbs your body will struggle as it has no fuel. Fat has been given a bad name through the media but when doing a low carb diet you really need to get enough.
This is a good calculator to work out what your protein, carbs and fat (other wise know as macros) should be: http://keto-calculator.ankerl.com/
You can mess around with it a bit to find what works for you. Hope this helps!1 -
Hi! I'm a WLS patient, status post-VSG, more than 2 years out. After surgery, I lost 75 pounds, all in the first 6 months, then didn't lose anything at all for 8 months. Then lost another 10 pounds by eating almost nothing. I started eating around 1k calories a day after losing the 10 pounds. My carbs were typically in the net 20 to 30, maybe a little more a day range. fat in the 30 to 50 grams range, at the most. Protein in the 100 to 150 range.
I lost nothing. In fact, my weight was creeping up and I was starting to feel blech. And I was always hungry. So I'd slip and eat more carbs. And I'd gain weight. So if I stayed to my plan, I maintained. The occasional slip up made me gain and I couldn't get it off again. I was losing the battle.
I've been doing LCHF, eat almost 2k calories a day, protein about 100k, carbs in the 20 to 30 range, the rest is fat.
I'm eating more. The food tastes better. And I'm losing weight - 7 lbs so far. I'm still not sure about this WOE. Once I pass my previous low, in another 12 pounds, I'll believe, for sure, this WOE works. In the meantime, I'm happy to eat good food and see my weight drop.
I don't know if this information helps you or not. I'm not hungry. It's so nice not to be hungry.8 -
I guess it depends what you mean by low carb low fat, if your talking low like 50g of each or less daily, then no. That is highly unlikely to work and is usually part of the reason many people who are dieting fail. They try to restrict calories to the extreme and eat lean proteins and veggies. Great in theory, however protein is an incredibly poor energy source and you will find yourself feeling run down and weak as well as incredibly hungry, which will lead to binging.
We would need more info though to know exactly what you are thinking, what would your macros be set at and how many calories a day?1 -
My calories would be around 1200. My carbs would be around 20g. My protein around 100g. The rest would be fat. Around 75g.
My reasoning is I am nasous in the mornings from all my medications that I just have a protein shake. (Free that my insurance paid for). I go to a php. I don't get home until 4. If I brought for instance tuna and lettuce and mayo for lunch. I would have say sausage and eggs for dinner around 7. I wouldn't eat any more than that because I wouldn't be hungry since I would have been busy all day. Distractions are great lol I take a medication to help my binge eating disorder which once I'm full, I can throw it away and not care. But yes. Anyway. Those would be my macros. I could probably add a little extra mayo in my tuna. (Sorry can't do tuna in oil. Gross) and I add butter to my eggs. As a night time snack I might have some bacon. (Who doesn't love bacon for dessert???) I tried doing the whole bulletproof coffee. Butter and coffee don't mix for me. Nope. Never again. I gaged. I may have messed up. I didn't use a blender but blah. Oh I do take cla pills, which is safflower oil so that might up my fat intake a little? Anyway. What do you think? I'm sorry I ramble.1 -
Yes, Fat is really necessary. More specifically, stay away from anything labeled "low-fat", because it will most likely be high in sugar. That will just undermine your whole effort and you will be unable to sustain this.. Been there, done that.
If you haven't yet, check out the launch pad attached in the intro section to this group about the benefits of eating more fat.
Check this out :
The Skinny on Fat: Silencing Your Fear of Dietary Fat1 -
How low are you planning on taking your calories?
Low carb is usually under 100-150g of carbs per day. That can be as low as almost zero calories or as high as 600kcal for active people. Most of us are under 100g or 400kcal.
Protein is usually moderate. The very lowest someone should go is 0.36g protein/lb of body weight. To maintain muscle you should probably get closer to 0.45-0.55g/lb. That is roughly 2 kcal of protein per pound of body weight. People trying to put on muscle might eat1g/lb or 4kcal per lb. I weigh just over 150lb and eat about 80g of protein per day; my only exercise is walking.
Low fat is 10-20% of your total calories... That is often hard to maintain. Some can do it, like those on the Pritkin diet, but they eat high carb to fill themselves up. Moderate carb is around 20-40% of your total calories. Really, there is no reason to eat low fat unless you are one of the rare few who have their lipid panel (HDL, LDL) negatively affected by dietary fats. Most people's blood improves on a LCHF diet though.
The only reason to go low fat is if you are going very low calories and that isn't healthy or sustainable over the long term.
I eat 5% carbs (about 20g), 20% protein (80g), and 75% fat (120g). I lost 2-3lbs per week doing that. High fat can help with feeling full and keeping you healthy.2 -
witcherkar wrote: »My calories would be around 1200. My carbs would be around 20g. My protein around 100g. The rest would be fat. Around 75g.
My reasoning is I am nasous in the mornings from all my medications that I just have a protein shake. (Free that my insurance paid for). I go to a php. I don't get home until 4. If I brought for instance tuna and lettuce and mayo for lunch. I would have say sausage and eggs for dinner around 7. I wouldn't eat any more than that because I wouldn't be hungry since I would have been busy all day. Distractions are great lol I take a medication to help my binge eating disorder which once I'm full, I can throw it away and not care. But yes. Anyway. Those would be my macros. I could probably add a little extra mayo in my tuna. (Sorry can't do tuna in oil. Gross) and I add butter to my eggs. As a night time snack I might have some bacon. (Who doesn't love bacon for dessert???) I tried doing the whole bulletproof coffee. Butter and coffee don't mix for me. Nope. Never again. I gaged. I may have messed up. I didn't use a blender but blah. Oh I do take cla pills, which is safflower oil so that might up my fat intake a little? Anyway. What do you think? I'm sorry I ramble.
Not intentional low fat. Just because I'm staying low calorie and don't know where else to get more fat only at night.0 -
@witcherkar, I'm in total agreement with all the advice and suggestions others have offered. My only other thought is you may want read the blog by @DittoDan. He has a wealth of information about LCHF and his story is well worth the read.2
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witcherkar wrote: »My calories would be around 1200. My carbs would be around 20g. My protein around 100g. The rest would be fat. Around 75g.
My reasoning is I am nasous in the mornings from all my medications that I just have a protein shake. (Free that my insurance paid for). I go to a php. I don't get home until 4. If I brought for instance tuna and lettuce and mayo for lunch. I would have say sausage and eggs for dinner around 7. I wouldn't eat any more than that because I wouldn't be hungry since I would have been busy all day. Distractions are great lol I take a medication to help my binge eating disorder which once I'm full, I can throw it away and not care. But yes. Anyway. Those would be my macros. I could probably add a little extra mayo in my tuna. (Sorry can't do tuna in oil. Gross) and I add butter to my eggs. As a night time snack I might have some bacon. (Who doesn't love bacon for dessert???) I tried doing the whole bulletproof coffee. Butter and coffee don't mix for me. Nope. Never again. I gaged. I may have messed up. I didn't use a blender but blah. Oh I do take cla pills, which is safflower oil so that might up my fat intake a little? Anyway. What do you think? I'm sorry I ramble.
My opinion is that these macros are very do-able. Especially if your hunger is under control. If you have days when it's not, having more fat can help you feel more satisfied for a longer time.
I think the type of fat is important though. You want to avoid vegetable and soybean oils as much as possible in preference for animal fats, coconut oil, olive and avocado oil and butter. Full fat dairy is good too, but cheese and milk products are troublesome for some people.
Your body NEEDS healthy fat to be the best it can be, and we want to make it prefer to burn fat over glucose so we do need to "teach it" what to expect by giving it the fuel we expect it to keep using. But... We also want it to burn up our excess body fat so if hunger is under control, and a basic minimum amount of healthy fats are consumed, we don't have to specifically force down extra fat calories just for the heck of it. Your body can get the rest from storage like we want it to.
Now at some point, your storage will start to get low and you will likely find that hunger increases and at that point, it's a good idea to satisfy the increased hunger with fat.1 -
Okay, can you blend butter or coconut oil into your morning shake? I have protein coffee in the morning. I add psyllium, apple fiber, and coconut oil now. Also cinnamon and allspice and almond milk. It's delicious. But without the blender, would have been a no go. I have to have the fiber because of bowel issues caused by spinal stenosis. And the fiber helps fill me up also. the net carb on the psyllium is 0, on the apple fiber, it is 5 carbs if i eat a tablespoon. That fits my macros.
So, I hear you on the coffee. All you can do is try it your way and see if it works. If you lose weight and you're not hungry and nothing is triggering a binge, then go for it. If you find your weight wavering, up down up down up down, maybe consider going higher calorie and adding fat for those calories.
I'd like to know your results. I hope you'll post them. I was very surprised to find I could eat so much fat and lose weight. Truly surprised. and so many calories. I'm flabbergasted. But...my jury is still out, but so far, it's working for me.0 -
Sunny_Bunny_ wrote: »Your body NEEDS healthy fat to be the best it can be, and we want to make it prefer to burn fat over glucose so we do need to "teach it" what to expect by giving it the fuel we expect it to keep using. But... We also want it to burn up our excess body fat so if hunger is under control, and a basic minimum amount of healthy fats are consumed, we don't have to specifically force down extra fat calories just for the heck of it. Your body can get the rest from storage like we want it to.
Now at some point, your storage will start to get low and you will likely find that hunger increases and at that point, it's a good idea to satisfy the increased hunger with fat.
Quick question, please. So, if after, say, four to six weeks when adaptation happens, perhaps lowering fat intake some would be smart, so the body will automatically turn to its stores? Is there a recommendation for adjusting macros for this? Or is it more intuitive and fine tuning?
Thank you.0 -
Thanks guys! I'm going to be going on a fast for a couple days (thursday and friday) for bowel issues. I have taken almost everything I can think of so now I'm being forced to take something gross. I don't want to add extra food on top of the rest of the process. Sorry tmi! So I'll start the rest on Saturday and let yall know how it goes and my progress!!0
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So you're only eating around 1200 calories? If you're feeling ok and not having urges to binge, I guess that's ok. But likely you can eat more calories and still lose at a very steady pace.
I second the suggestion to add fat to the morning shake, if/when you find you get cranky or moody eating at 1200 calories (MCT oil is tasteless and blends with just about anything blend-able). Last night I made "fat bombs" for the first time (mostly coconut oil and cocoa). What a delicious way to get extra fat at night as a treat!0 -
Bullet proof coffee MUST be blended. Then it is creamy rather than gross. Same deal when adding oil to other beverages, in my opinion3
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SamandaIndia wrote: »Bullet proof coffee MUST be blended. Then it is creamy rather than gross. Same deal when adding oil to other beverages, in my opinion
Thanks! I wish I had read that somewhere before I tried my first, and only, BPC.
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SuperCarLori wrote: »Sunny_Bunny_ wrote: »Your body NEEDS healthy fat to be the best it can be, and we want to make it prefer to burn fat over glucose so we do need to "teach it" what to expect by giving it the fuel we expect it to keep using. But... We also want it to burn up our excess body fat so if hunger is under control, and a basic minimum amount of healthy fats are consumed, we don't have to specifically force down extra fat calories just for the heck of it. Your body can get the rest from storage like we want it to.
Now at some point, your storage will start to get low and you will likely find that hunger increases and at that point, it's a good idea to satisfy the increased hunger with fat.
Quick question, please. So, if after, say, four to six weeks when adaptation happens, perhaps lowering fat intake some would be smart, so the body will automatically turn to its stores? Is there a recommendation for adjusting macros for this? Or is it more intuitive and fine tuning?
Thank you.
I think it's probably intuitive. I believe in following hunger signals. Real hunger signals, not to be mistaken for cravings or boredom.
What has always worked for me is start each day right off with about 20g to 30g of fat from coconut or MCT oil and butter or HWC devided between my 2 cups of coffee. That's breakfast at 6:30am. I can go to 2:30 ish before needing to eat again. If I'm having a "hungry day", I tend to be more generous with added fats to things. If I'm under control, I don't bother adding butter or whatever fat to stuff and let it come from my belly (hopefully!)
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witcherkar wrote: »My calories would be around 1200. My carbs would be around 20g. My protein around 100g. The rest would be fat. Around 75g.
My reasoning is I am nasous in the mornings from all my medications that I just have a protein shake. (Free that my insurance paid for). I go to a php. I don't get home until 4. If I brought for instance tuna and lettuce and mayo for lunch. I would have say sausage and eggs for dinner around 7. I wouldn't eat any more than that because I wouldn't be hungry since I would have been busy all day. Distractions are great lol I take a medication to help my binge eating disorder which once I'm full, I can throw it away and not care. But yes. Anyway. Those would be my macros. I could probably add a little extra mayo in my tuna. (Sorry can't do tuna in oil. Gross) and I add butter to my eggs. As a night time snack I might have some bacon. (Who doesn't love bacon for dessert???) I tried doing the whole bulletproof coffee. Butter and coffee don't mix for me. Nope. Never again. I gaged. I may have messed up. I didn't use a blender but blah. Oh I do take cla pills, which is safflower oil so that might up my fat intake a little? Anyway. What do you think? I'm sorry I ramble.
That actually sounds like a really reasonable plan. If you do find yourself getting hungry add a little fat snack. Fat is only needed to fill you to satiety.2 -
I don't go out of my to eat fat and I've done just fine...I have plenty of energy, don't feel hunger and feel really good overall. I do eat cheese and put mayo in my tuna and use ranch dressing on my salads. I also eat a lot of meat, which has fat. I'm probably getting the right amount of fat, but it's not 75% percent of my diet for sure.2
