Endurance athletes: what's the food you take during long events?

lodro

At present, I do a lot of ultra cycling: think distances of 200 km to be completed in 13.5 hours total time (audaxing, randonneuring). I've been on keto for a year now. Last weekend I took part in the Dunwich Dynamo and really spectacularly crashed (food wise) on the latter part of the ride. In contrast, two weeks earlier, I rode 230 km in one day, and I arrived fresh. Since I was on the bike for a long time during this slow descent into food hell, I was able to think long and hard about the causes. I identified:

1. not enough fluids and not enough electrolytes - that one's easy to fix
2. I had a hard time getting the right foods in. I brought some stuff myself, but ran out on the first half of the ride and then had to resort to the stuff the food stops had on offer, but all that is carb laden, because that's how cyclists do it: they carb the F up and want lots of cake
3. too much solid food took a lot of energy to digest

I ended up with severe stomach cramps, had to empty my stomach, and felt awful on the way home (by ferry, took about 8 hours) and was very weak off the ferry, going home. In the end rode home at 18 km/h and arrived at a real low.

Since then I've done some research and it seems that

a. I need to be more cunning with drinking and adding salts to my intake (my nausea was mainly caused by kalium depletion)
b. I need to make some energy preparations to take while I'm underway: i was thinking of mct oil, super starch, amino acids

I think I can up the carbs, as long as I don't trigger an insulin response. Since I want to go for the big randonneur numbers (400 km, 600 km), I'm looking for others' experiences here. What worked and didn't work for you in doing endurance events on keto?

PS: I never thought that I would be competing i such events, but here I am!

KnitOrMiss

I'm not personally doing endurance events, but I will say this - with MCT oil, be sure to pair it with collagen and a small amount of liquid to dissolve, or something. MCT alone can cause stomach upset. Collagen is the only non-solid food item I've been able to pair it with that helps with not having a stomach ache with it. Additionally, you'll want to increase your tolerance to how much coconut oil/MCT oil you can handle daily. Start with the tsps, and can up to the TBSP. I've heard of folks tolerating 8-12 TBSP daily (considered therapeutic levels for dementia treatment) - and I think one person at 18 TBSP, though I don't recall the reason off hand. Most folks, if they don't step up slowly enough, find that more than 2-3 TBSP of CO can create massive digestive problems/bowel issues, which would likely create issues with needing to empty your stomach/bowels, etc.

Homemade electrolyte bombs can be made. Magnesium powder, potassium powder, salt, lemon juice, stevia (if preferred), and water. Can be concentrated and in solution or possibly even possible solidified somehow. There are electrolyte tabs you can buy that have all this without any sweeteners that you could pour in or pop a tab or 3 during any point on rides. Maybe something with pickle juice might also help??

Digestive enzymes can be added to any food/fat consumption. ACV pills are available, as are brands like NOW Brand vegetarian "Super Enzymes," etc.

Maybe things like nut butter packets? Coconut oil is sold in individual packets. Perhaps ketone supplements for extra ketones to use as energy? Could you make a vegetarian Keto granola bar? Coconut flakes, coconut oil/butter, nuts, chia, seeds, etc.? I know that agar-agar can be used to make gelatin-like snacks - maybe those could be your electrolyte bombs? Or fat bombs to be made room temperature stable??

What type of things did you make/take with you that worked in the first part of the race? There are two kinds of distance/endurance folks - those that strictly run keto for events - and those that carb up. Some have regained enough metabolic flexibility to do both, but in my experience those folks are rare. Something else that just occurred to me is that if you're near healthy weight, intentionally calorie-upping the few days prior to the race to add a bit of extra body fat to have available to burn while competing might help

Hopefully, @Dragonwolf @baconslave @FIT_Goat - or someone will have links to the keto groups (on reddit, I think) that deal more with the endurance side of things... With you being vegetarian, some things others might rely on like beef sticks/cheese, etc. might be harder to work around...though I'm honestly not sure.

KnitOrMiss

P.S. Congrats on getting competitive in such an interesting arena, @lodro!

lodro

Thank you. Yes, who would have thought! Anyway

Some very good points about adding collagen to mct oil. I do take mct oil already, and have a pretty good tolerance, but not on rides!
And yes to making electrolyte bombs and quick energy packs with coconut oil.

What went right in the first part of the ride and the training ride a week before was that I could stick to my own rhythm, also in taking in solid food (very little), drinking regularly. In the Dunwich Dynamo I kind of panicked when it became obvious that I was running out of food and could find nothing (literally nothing) to eat at the foodstops. When I did find something suitable I really stocked up there and then, also because I was in a hurry, and it went downhill from there (not literally though, lots of nasty climbing in the last 40 miles).

For those who wonder what these events are:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7XlPDj_BOPA

lodro

Sooooo, a quick update to my tale of nutrition woe.

I decided to make a couple of changes:

1. set up my bike differently so I can eat and drink while riding. This allows me to sip and ride, and reduces the temptation to ride on instead of stop (in ultra events, you lose the most time by stopping.
2. not having to stop frequently in order to eat and drink, also makes it possible to factor in longer stops for breakfast, lunch and dinner. The added advantage is that I can portion my riding better, and have something to look forward to. So now the schedule is: three "long" stops for sit down meals, preferably somewhere nice, and the odd quick stop, mainly to replenish food and drink on the bike.

I've upped the MCT intake, and am developing fat bomb "energizers" in squeeze tubes.

Been testing this in the long rides I do on weekends: so far so good. I've started training for the Transcontinental Race of 2017 and my next big event is a 600 km early september, so we'll see how it goes.

Interesting that I thought I had to change the nature of the food I was taking, but it's more a matter of making food and drink properly accessible from the riding position, so that I can time food and drink intake better.

I'll keep you posted (ultra racing is exciting to the person doing it, but it's like watching the grass grow if you're not on the bike.

for those who are interested: this year's Transcontinental:

www. transcontinental.cc

KnitOrMiss

That's awesome. I hope you continue to enjoy the fruits of your planning labor!

lodro

We'll see what happens in september.

Fvaisey

You might want to read The Art and Science of Low Carbohydrate Performance by Phinney and Volek. These two docs live LCHF and are very active. Anyway, it sounds like you burned 12-15,000 calories on your ride. Even a lean athlete carries 40,000 calories in body fat. You don't actually need to eat anything at all on a ride of that duration. Once fat adapted your body can readily tap that huge fuel tank that we are all carrying around.

I know it sounds like sacrilege, which is why I recommend the book. The science is compelling. There are significant numbers of endurance athletes who are training this way. It sounds counter-intuitive when you have been living in the carbage world all your life but if you are really fat-adapted, you should try it on your next significant ride.

You can always take along a snickers for an emergency. :-)

lodro

No, doesn't sound like sacrilege at all, because that's how it went on my long ride this week. However, reading a book and how this plays out during a multi-day ultra event are two different things. I also want to make clear that my question isn't about whether or not to take carbohydrates during events, because I don't. Eating while riding is a discipline in and of itself. I ran out of food, during the Dunwich Dynamo, and the food stops were all about carbohydrates. They generally are: many riders consider cake to be the highpoint of their ride.

Anyway, to illustrate. Yesterday rode 150km. Breakfasted with a protein powder and double cream, did take sufficient fluids and electrolytes with me, rode out to the place where I would meet up with friends (100 km), had a tomato soup with some butter in it, a coffee and water. Then rode an additional 50 km to reach the ride's destination. Lots of drinking, no eating: did buy a bottle of coconut water, a small tub of raspberries and a cup of coconut yoghurt, ate that and drank some more. Someone on the conventional "carbohydrates every hour" regimen would not have been able to complete the ride like that.

OTOH, this year's transcontinental riders seem to be mainly in search of food. The cool thing about keto for distance events is that it gives enormous freedom, if done right during the ride. How that works is what I'm hoping to find out .

lodro

Interestingly, I read an article in Cycling Weekly on the benefits of a ketogenic diet for ultra cycling, and now this, in Road.cc about ketone supplements. BTW, I use ketocana on occasion, and it's brilliant, but vile tasting and pretty expensive.
http://road.cc/content/news/199976-could-be-end-carb-loading-endurance

"One of the people to answer this call was University of Oxford biochemist, Professor Kieran Clarke. With Dr Richard Veech at the National Institutes of Health, she assembled a team who invented the ketone ester drink, and this is the first efficacy study to show that the taking ketone can improve performance for certain types of activities. Safety studies have already been conducted and the drink does not have any adverse effects."

Of course, the weird thing is: you can produce this by going ketogenic!

lodro

And another one: Juliana Buhring, ultra cyclist, went keto. She explains: http://julianabuhring.com/keto-baby/

The most obvious and exciting effect for me in comparison to my previous high carb diet is the incredible mental and physical energy I feel even at the end of a long 300+ km day on the bike. In the past, I would collapse on the couch, unable to do much else after a hard ride, the exhaustion in my body meant my brain was in a useless fog. I would simply want to eat and sleep. Now when I come home, I can go straight into working, writing, socialising with no drop in my usual energy. I have often come back having cycled 12 hours on a capfull of coconut oil, a handful of nuts, a few slices of cheese and a couple protein bars and feel no hunger to the point that I can wait a few hours before eating a meal without turning into the Incredible Hulk–which was me on a carb diet when I did not refuel immediately. Here’s the best part: no bonking!

KnitOrMiss

That is simply amazing - and a true testimony to what lifestyle changes can really do for life quality!

lodro

I surprised my mother the other week when I stopped there after a 225 km ride, with enough energy to get into town to grab something to eat from the supermarket, then watched a movie with her. "I would have thought you'd pass out, but you didn't". All that on lots of electrolyte drink and two tubs of sour cream.

TXMary2

If you are on Facebook there is a group called "The Ketogenic Athlete" you may get some good responses there.

lodro

thanks for the tip. in the transcontinental group, post-ride, there now is an interesting discussion on heat stress, fluid intake and electrolytes.

lodro

not a group for me. people posting their 10 mile rides and lifting routines interspersed with thinly disguised ads for their blogs, websites and supplements.

KnitOrMiss

That would never work for me either. I think there is another gent here who does long rides. Mayne he'll pop in. On my phone so can't look up his name.

KnitOrMiss

@mwyvr is of whom I was thinking. Maybe he can weigh in here.

lodro

Interesting! I've posted a "what's your way of eating and would you change anything" to this year's TransCon riders and a a N=1 thing, I'm trying things out on this year's BoB and the Valleycat in Wales, 3 weeks later. I also posted a question on sleep deprivation management. I come from a background of mini transat racing, so these things are very interesting to me

rjc992

This is a great thread. I have just went Keto and normally do multi day tours with about 100 miles/day. Nutrition on the bike and fueling via Keto has been a concern. I am going on my next tour in 2 weeks and current training of 50 to 70 moles so far on Keto seems to be working OK.

lodro

That'll be true for your longer touring days as well, is my experience. Last week went on a "oh let's see where I end up" ride, that turned into 80 km. I started out by cycling to a favorite coffee stop with my wife, no breakfast, just electrolyte drink. We had coffee, she cycled home, I decided to first visit a very nice lake area. En route passed the mega roadbike warehouse, popped in there, had a look around, cycled on at a pretty fast pace to a place on the lake where I had lunch: goat cheese salad, delicious, not too substantial. I kept on drinking the eletrolyte drink, took 3 750ml bottles with me, emptied one and a half, filled up, threw in tablets. And cycled on with a detour through the lake area, then onto the river front and so back to Rotterdam. Ate something when I got home, other than that nothing. All the while I felt fine. The occasional weekend warrior racing type in full team lycra passed me a few times, and I could sprint to keep up and even attack before letting them go. The freedom is: no hunting for carbs every hour!

One thing I learned through experience: drink more than you did when you were not on keto and watch the electrolytes. If you have to choose between something sweet and something salty, take something salty and add salt! (i even add salt to my favorite tubs of sour cream: I take along a small container of sellery salt for that)

ride on!