So... what about 1/2-marathon training if "just" LC, not fully Keto?

Phrick

keto and I just do. not. get. along and my body has made that abundantly clear on both occasions that I've tried it. And I mean I really tried it, not halfway and for about 6 months before accepting the fact. So I eat low carb/moderate protein/high-ish fat at about a 20%/20%/60% ratio

I want to run the San Diego Holiday Half in December, and I know Keto adapted folks can run distances like that fasted but what about a not-fat-adapted person? Will I still need extra carbs during training? Will I still need to carb load like most racers do the day(s) before? etc.

Majcolorado

I aim for 15/25/60 and do a lot of Maffetone-style biking and light mountaineering. I consider myself fat adapted while also being able to burn some carbs without shocking my system.

I carry Bulletproof bars, Epic bars, roasted and salted mixed nuts and electrolytes while I'm on the trail and frequently have a zero carb breakfast before heading out. I've never felt the need to carb load or crack open the flask of energy gel I still carry out of habit.

Honestly I rarely even eat until after I'm back to the truck or at the nearest restaurant unless I'm out on a really long day.

wabmester

The brain requires about 500 kcal/day, and it's the main consumer of glucose in your body.

500 kcal = 125g carbs.

So if you're below that level (which you probably are at 20%), then you're making ketones, and you're fat adapted.

If you're exercising a lot, you're probably making more ketones than sedentary folks eating below 50g carbs.

In Volek's FASTER study, the fat-adapted low-carb athletes averaged around 70g/d for carb intake.

All of this is just to say that you're probably bonk-proof. But your training will tell you for sure.

KnitOrMiss

Honestly, as long as you've been low carb, I would argue that you are at least mostly fat adapted. That being said, to ask that question - do you "bonk" out where running - where you hit a wall and feel like you'll pass out without eating? If not, I think you're either fat adapted or have enough flexibility for your body to flip between carbs and fats easily...

I would not think that carb loading would help you at all... I would start experimenting. Aside from fluids/electrolytes, I'd be hugely surprised if you hit that wall when most carb burners would...

DorkothyParker

I agree with that others said. I would add to always, always, always train your race and race your training. Don't make any drastic changes between your training and the actual race itself. Don't try to run time faster than normal or change your eating (other than to provide the proper hydration for the distance). Do your race as trained.

I am assuming you will be building your long runs so you will probably find you are capable of going each of those distances without carb fuel just fine. But certainly, feel free to evaluate on the 7 or 8 mile long run. The longest long run in my training was 10 miles and since that went well, I felt more confident about my race-day fueling plans. Are you using a program?

I won't lie, I think those gel packs probably provide a slight edge on time with the "burst" of energy, but I don't think it's necessary. Mental training and recovery are really where you can build to overcome those near-bonk moments.

Phrick

DorkothyParker wrote: »

I agree with that others said. I would add to always, always, always train your race and race your training. Don't make any drastic changes between your training and the actual race itself. Don't try to run time faster than normal or change your eating (other than to provide the proper hydration for the distance). Do your race as trained.

I am assuming you will be building your long runs so you will probably find you are capable of going each of those distances without carb fuel just fine. But certainly, feel free to evaluate on the 7 or 8 mile long run. The longest long run in my training was 10 miles and since that went well, I felt more confident about my race-day fueling plans. Are you using a program?

I won't lie, I think those gel packs probably provide a slight edge on time with the "burst" of energy, but I don't think it's necessary. Mental training and recovery are really where you can build to overcome those near-bonk moments.

It's all theoretical at this point since I recently became injured (freaking hell) but since the race is not till December I don't really need to be full-on training yet either. I have stupid posterior tibial tendon dysfunction and I'm looking at 8-12 weeks of recovery time and I'm in the beginning of dealing with it so running is out of the question for now, a serious bummer.

But yes, I will be using a program to train, I think Hal Higdon since I bought his apps ages ago but didn't ever use them. My furthest distance to date was only 5mi so I have some work to do!

Foamroller

@Phrick. I don't know the extent of your injury...but are you sure it's a good idea stressing over "training for the race" when you have an injury? If I were you, I'd consider what protocols (training and diet) are best suited to recover as priority #1 rather than put added mental strain of a race in mind.

Re keto adaptation. If you can go +5-6 hours without feeling hungry or starving, you're keto adapted AFAIK:) Following logic: Without the glucose spikes, the ketones kick in when necessary. They're also appetite reducing, according to Dominic D'Agostino. So hunger feelings is actually a pretty good but albeit anecdotal measure of keto adaptation. Stomach growling is NOT hunger. It's when the tummy is used to be fed (like a pet). Just my thoughts.

Good luck with any choice you pursue!

Phrick

Foamroller wrote: »

@Phrick. I don't know the extent of your injury...but are you sure it's a good idea stressing over "training for the race" when you have an injury? If I were you, I'd consider what protocols (training and diet) are best suited to recover as priority #1 rather than put added mental strain of a race in mind.

Re keto adaptation. If you can go +5-6 hours without feeling hungry or starving, you're keto adapted AFAIK:) Following logic: Without the glucose spikes, the ketones kick in when necessary. They're also appetite reducing, according to Dominic D'Agostino. So hunger feelings is actually a pretty good but albeit anecdotal measure of keto adaptation. Stomach growling is NOT hunger. It's when the tummy is used to be fed (like a pet). Just my thoughts.

Good luck with any choice you pursue!

@Foamroller oh you're absolutely right and I'm not really "stressing" over training for the race especially since it is still 5 months away - I'm just so bummed that running is off the table again and for potentially so long. I actually have looked into several races that come shortly after this one in case I am unable to recover and adequately train in time - there's one in January, and another in March that I can buy if needed (and I haven't even bought this one! So I'm really not committed to anything yet).

I seriously am one of those "oddballs" who runs for the love of running - the freedom I feel, the lightness of spirit, the release of stress, the time to focus; it is almost meditative for me. All sorts of people tell me to just walk for now, and I do, but walking is SO NOT the same. Running has been "my thing" for a couple of years but I haven't been able to consistently do it for about the last 8 months due to various life circumstances (pain followed by surgery followed by recovery being the main issue) and it kills me that now that I'm cleared to run again, within the first month I'm sidelined AGAIN by this stupid injury. But I will do what is necessary to heal and recover, because I won't risk losing access to all the loves I listed above. I won't train through it, I won't do anything to compromise or extend the recovery time, because the want (and indeed, NEED) to run is so strong that it is a physical ache in my belly sometimes. I need to be able to get back to it, so whatever it takes, I'm doing. I'm just chomping at the bit and gnashing my teeth whilst restraining myself!

Foamroller

Ok that's good to know I hear your grief about not being able to run. I've had injury myself that has set me back a great deal. 2x physiotherapy/wk has helped but it IS frustrating that recovery can be so slow. At least now I can take off sweater without crouching (frozen shoulder). Health is underrated. Sounds like you have a pragmatical view towards recovery/training vokume. That will help you out