Hello? Body?
Phrick
Posts: 2,765 Member
Ok Body, lets see if I've got this:
37g carb dinner, mostly coming from sweet potato = best sleep in years;
41g carb dinner, mostly from cheesy garlic bread = "haha, you get less than 4 hours."
Gotcha? Maybe? We'll try red potatoes tonight and see what happens.
37g carb dinner, mostly coming from sweet potato = best sleep in years;
41g carb dinner, mostly from cheesy garlic bread = "haha, you get less than 4 hours."
Gotcha? Maybe? We'll try red potatoes tonight and see what happens.
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Replies
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Interesting. Lol.
I can't say I've had sleepless nights on keto yet. (Well I have, but that's because of sinus infection and I couldn't breathe. Lol)
I've noticed that I skip my afternoon nap these days. But that's not a bad thing, that I've lost my afternoon slump.1 -
Shadowmf023 wrote: »Interesting. Lol.
I can't say I've had sleepless nights on keto yet. (Well I have, but that's because of sinus infection and I couldn't breathe. Lol)
I've noticed that I skip my afternoon nap these days. But that's not a bad thing, that I've lost my afternoon slump.
@Shadowmf023 - chronic awful insomnia has been my horrible companion for the better part of 13 years. That "best night's sleep in years" was 6h 34m in one night (I did get up to pee but that was it). A "typical" night is just under 4 hours, a bad night around 2 hours. I nap daily to compensate. It's bad. Low carb is OK but keto levels of LC make it worse.
In the last few months I've been introduced to the idea that eating carbs at dinner can help you sleep better and I have toyed with the idea but the last 2 nights decided to start trying it out. This experimenting is born out of that!2 -
Shadowmf023 wrote: »Interesting. Lol.
I can't say I've had sleepless nights on keto yet. (Well I have, but that's because of sinus infection and I couldn't breathe. Lol)
I've noticed that I skip my afternoon nap these days. But that's not a bad thing, that I've lost my afternoon slump.
@Shadowmf023 - chronic awful insomnia has been my horrible companion for the better part of 13 years. That "best night's sleep in years" was 6h 34m in one night (I did get up to pee but that was it). A "typical" night is just under 4 hours, a bad night around 2 hours. I nap daily to compensate. It's bad. Low carb is OK but keto levels of LC make it worse.
In the last few months I've been introduced to the idea that eating carbs at dinner can help you sleep better and I have toyed with the idea but the last 2 nights decided to start trying it out. This experimenting is born out of that!
See for you that's a bad thing and for me (who sleeps entirely too much and who's always tired) it's an advantage.
I've never slept less than 10hrs in my life. It's bad I know. But I think keto might bring it down to 8. Which is "normal" in my mind. 2 -
Sleep. My weekends are usually when I get the most. During the week I'm extremely lucky to get 6.0
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Ah, whew!
You don't have trouble napping if you were short on sleep the night before?1 -
@RalfLott, nope. I almost never have trouble napping. Occasionally if I've overdone the coffee it'll take an extra 20 min to fall asleep - or if it is too hot in our room (which we've solved with a window AC unit now so that shouldn't be an issue anymore I hope), but beyond that I'm usually Lights Out in under 5 minutes, nap time or bedtime. it's the STAYING asleep part that kills me. Even with heavy doses of meds (5mg valium + 150mg Trazodone + 400mg mag glycinate) at bedtime I generally wake after 2.5-3 hours most nights and on lucky nights I fall asleep again after that.1
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Yipes!
Is that the case for both night sleep and daytime naps?
Have you tried a quad shot of espresso before bed?1 -
All carbs are not created equally. The sweet potato should have been easier on your digestive system than the bread, making it easier to sleep while your body processed it. And if you haven't had refined starches in a while that could have caused even more digestive effort, which can easily disrupt sleep when you're an insomniac, even if you're not having any actual discomfort. Plus the sweet potato would have had a lesser impact on glucose/insulin levels, even if you're not diabetic, the natural rise and fall can be disruptive when you struggle to sleep.
By some strange fluke, my insomnia literally went away practically overnight about 5 years ago, but I'd suffered since I was 5 yrs old. I totally understand how challenging it can be to cope.
Keep experimentating with your carbs. I'd recommend trying more starchy veg first, even regular potatoes, or root mashes / root fries. Parsnips, celery root, rutabegas and carrots all make delicious additions to mashed potatoes and can also be sliced for yummy fries too.5 -
Yipes!
Is that the case for both night sleep and daytime naps?
Have you tried a quad shot of espresso before bed?
yep, that's the story. I fall asleep to nap in minutes but it's ultra-rare for me to nap longer than 45-50 minutes; bedtime same: asleep in short order but awake again within a 3 hours (or less) window.
I'm quite caffeine sensitive so no, I haven't tried espresso before bed LOL - any caffeine after 12:00 will affect my ability to fall asleep (a diet coke at 2:00 yesterday was enough to keep me awake till after 10:00 even though my typical bedtime is earlier) but as per usual, I was up for the day at 2:45 this morning. And actually that was a touch of "sleeping in" from the norm.1 -
PaleoInScotland wrote: »All carbs are not created equally. The sweet potato should have been easier on your digestive system than the bread, making it easier to sleep while your body processed it. And if you haven't had refined starches in a while that could have caused even more digestive effort, which can easily disrupt sleep when you're an insomniac, even if you're not having any actual discomfort. Plus the sweet potato would have had a lesser impact on glucose/insulin levels, even if you're not diabetic, the natural rise and fall can be disruptive when you struggle to sleep.
By some strange fluke, my insomnia literally went away practically overnight about 5 years ago, but I'd suffered since I was 5 yrs old. I totally understand how challenging it can be to cope.
Keep experimentating with your carbs. I'd recommend trying more starchy veg first, even regular potatoes, or root mashes / root fries. Parsnips, celery root, rutabegas and carrots all make delicious additions to mashed potatoes and can also be sliced for yummy fries too.
Thanks for those ideas! My mom was almost always a "path of least resistance" cook which means my starchy vegetable experience as a kid was limited to carrots and potatoes. I've experimented with rutabaga and celery root as an adult but never has a parsnip or turnip crossed my lips. I have planned already for tonight to have a couple small red potatoes in a hash with Hempler's Double Smoked Sausage (zero carb in the sausage and it's amazing), we'll see how that goes!
I have "only" been a poor sleeper since middle school, but it didn't get truly, really bad until I had kids. I had Postpartum Psychosis after my first was born, and was clinically diagnosed with bipolar disorder during my second pregnancy, although my psychiatrist now says it was most likely brought on by puberty. I couldn't agree more; I've been "mentally broken" since at least 7th grade. As well, I've had anxiety issues literally my entire life, from my very earliest memories. So although it brings about a great deal of frustration, it's hardly a surprise that sleep troubles are a part of the package!
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Have you ever tried a magnesium supplement before bed to help you sleep? It does help me. Research it a little bit if interested as some are better for sleep and some for constipation 2
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@Phrick - My sympathies!
I'm sure you've been through sleep studies, tried all sorts of meds, foods, incantations, etc.
Keep us posted on your progress, eh?
of course I'll update! And yes, you are correct: there have been sleep studies, specialists, and pages and pages of meds.. at one point my psychiatrist was filing the paperwork for Xyrem - that's sodium oxybate, the prescription version of GHB (you know, the "date rape drug" - never did try it because insurance denied, but still) - because we had tried pretty much everything else available, from "dinosaur drugs" like Dalmane (with a ton of side effects) to the then-cutting edge and super costly atypical antipsychotics, and everything in between. I even took a surgical sedative for about a year!2 -
@Phrick - My sympathies!
I'm sure you've been through sleep studies, tried all sorts of meds, foods, incantations, etc.
Keep us posted on your progress, eh?
of course I'll update! And yes, you are correct: there have been sleep studies, specialists, and pages and pages of meds.. at one point my psychiatrist was filing the paperwork for Xyrem - that's sodium oxybate, the prescription version of GHB (you know, the "date rape drug" - never did try it because insurance denied, but still) - because we had tried pretty much everything else available, from "dinosaur drugs" like Dalmane (with a ton of side effects) to the then-cutting edge and super costly atypical antipsychotics, and everything in between. I even took a surgical sedative for about a year!
Well, you still have a good attitude - congrats on that minor miracle!
Maybe if you concentrate real hard on what you inadvertently may not have tried....2 -
Hey @Phrick
This might sound weird, but I have been reading about using Magnesium oil rather than tablets(hate those nasty horse pills). I read through lists of reviews on Amazon and people are reporting good sleep results when applying to bottom of your feet 20 minutes before bed. Hokum?!?! I dont know. But I am willing to give it a try - I ordered some to see if it works for me.4 -
Wow. Let us know how it works!0
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@NonnaTurtle thanks for the tip! I have some magnesium oil at home, I will definitely have to give that a shot!
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Phrick,
Are you a "woman of a certain age?"
I ask because severe chronic insomnia has been a companion of mine for many years, since the onset of peri-menopausal symptoms.
The only thing that has ever really helped (aside from Ativan, which is lovely and dangerously addictive and to be avoided if possible) is my bio-identical progesterone. Progesterone worked so well that for the first time in many years I started sleeping 7 hours a night. It was like a miracle, I kid you not.
Last year my partner was diagnosed with cancer and my sleep degraded again from the stress and worry and became quite bad again.
My ND has just adjusted my dose up a bit and that, along with the tips I got here, has put my sleep back to the 6 hours a night realm, which is a huge relief. I'm hoping that once I feel better my sleep will improve a bit more.4 -
In the last few months I've been introduced to the idea that eating carbs at dinner can help you sleep better and I have toyed with the idea but the last 2 nights decided to start trying it out. This experimenting is born out of that!
How interesting! I really hope it helps with your sleep issues!ProCoffeenator wrote: »Sleep. My weekends are usually when I get the most. During the week I'm extremely lucky to get 6.
I'm the same way @ProCoffeenator! lol0 -
Phrick,
Are you a "woman of a certain age?"
I ask because severe chronic insomnia has been a companion of mine for many years, since the onset of peri-menopausal symptoms.
The only thing that has ever really helped (aside from Ativan, which is lovely and dangerously addictive and to be avoided if possible) is my bio-identical progesterone. Progesterone worked so well that for the first time in many years I started sleeping 7 hours a night. It was like a miracle, I kid you not.
Last year my partner was diagnosed with cancer and my sleep degraded again from the stress and worry and became quite bad again.
My ND has just adjusted my dose up a bit and that, along with the tips I got here, has put my sleep back to the 6 hours a night realm, which is a huge relief. I'm hoping that once I feel better my sleep will improve a bit more.
hehe, not quite yet - I'm 38 (but did have a hysterectomy in May of this year -kept ovaries though). Even Ativan doesn't do the trick for me I'm in the really heavy duty stuff now (valium every night, hate to think of when I stop taking that).1 -
so 44g of carbs from red potatoes this evening, chopped up and fried with zero carb sausage. Yummy! Now I'll just have to see how sleep is tonight!0
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My sleep got a lot worse doing keto... at least for the first 5 weeks... Then I dropped my carbs from 50 net carbs to 30 net carbs... and about a week later I noticed I was getting sleepy around 10 PM and then was falling asleep as soon as I went to bed (that never happens unless I'm in crash and burn mode from a long stretch of insomnia), sleeping soundly, and waking up without an alarm between 7:30 to 8:30 AM, feeling refreshed... WTH??! I thought it was just a one off, a two off... a three off... but now it's been over two weeks now and I'm still sleeping great and waking up rested... Not sure if that might help... but from one tired insomniac to another it feels like a flippin' miracle!!2
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I've noticed eating before bed helps me sleep! My go to night time snack is cottage cheese and natural peanut butter. About 10g total carbs in one sitting.1
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@RalfLott, nope. I almost never have trouble napping. Occasionally if I've overdone the coffee it'll take an extra 20 min to fall asleep - or if it is too hot in our room (which we've solved with a window AC unit now so that shouldn't be an issue anymore I hope), but beyond that I'm usually Lights Out in under 5 minutes, nap time or bedtime. it's the STAYING asleep part that kills me. Even with heavy doses of meds (5mg valium + 150mg Trazodone + 400mg mag glycinate) at bedtime I generally wake after 2.5-3 hours most nights and on lucky nights I fall asleep again after that.
My husband had this problem for years. It got slightly better when we changed to LCHF but nowhere near normal sleep. Then he tried a new doctor who prescribed LDN before sleep (it had to be taken between 10pm and midnight). It was a miracle. He started having full eight hour sleep nights. He took it for a year, stopped a couple months ago and so far the sleep stays normal.
I researched it at the time and the use for this end is fringe at best but it did work where nothing else would. You may want to try this, if the potatoes fail you.
There's lots of info online, this is the wikipedia page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Low-dose_naltrexone
::flowerforyou::2 -
anewlifeat40 wrote: »My sleep got a lot worse doing keto... at least for the first 5 weeks... Then I dropped my carbs from 50 net carbs to 30 net carbs... and about a week later I noticed I was getting sleepy around 10 PM and then was falling asleep as soon as I went to bed (that never happens unless I'm in crash and burn mode from a long stretch of insomnia), sleeping soundly, and waking up without an alarm between 7:30 to 8:30 AM, feeling refreshed... WTH??! I thought it was just a one off, a two off... a three off... but now it's been over two weeks now and I'm still sleeping great and waking up rested... Not sure if that might help... but from one tired insomniac to another it feels like a flippin' miracle!!
I legit love keto and want to have the benefits that people talk about - improved sleep, improved stability of mood, decreased hunger, decreased pain (arthritis and migraine for me), better training performance... unfortunately I have a big "BUT" with it:
I have bipolar disorder and try as I might, my brain just can't handle keto levels of low carb. I have now given it nearly a year's worth of trial in two chunks, the first being 4 months and the second just over 6 months, and in both instances the purported benefits just did not manifest for me. I became in fact MORE irritable, MORE anxious, MORE volatile, MORE tearful, unstable, and depressed. I gave up the first attempt after becoming suicidal and nearly being hospitalized (however I had missed several days in a row of medication and wasn't sure if that or the diet or both was the factor so I tried it again with more or less same result - but at least I didn't let it get to suicidal this time).
I am trying to find the sweet spot where I can still be low carb without all that. It appears my "happy zone" is between 50 ad 75g carbs/day so I set my goal as 65g. I rarely hit it, which is actually something I need to pay more attention to honestly. Yesterday right up until dinner, I was at 9g carbs for the whole day and was quite irritable, anti-social, and EXTRA tired (beyond usual haha) - not sure if it was the wheat the day before (garlic bread) or the very very low carb count that did me in (or the combination) but it is something worth noting and paying attention to.2 -
@KetoGirl83 thanks for that, it's making for interesting reading this morning! I have a pretty progressive doctor and there is a compounding pharmacy in my town, i think I will ask him about it when I get home.1
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@KetoGirl83 do you meal plan ahead of time? Maybe that could help you reach your macros and help you not trigger the yucks from eating high carb foods?0
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7/24 update: 2 small(ish) red potatoes knocked me right out, and for about 7 hours - unfortunately, it was an almost immediate effect so I ended up asleep for the night at 6:30 (and consequently, up for the day at about 1:30 this morning). So far definitely the most effective sleep agent. I wonder if quantity plays a role too (because asleep for the night at 6:30 is too early even for me, and I kind of wonder if the 44g carbs from the taters was just too much).2
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