Dawn Phenomenon
grandmaJMB
Posts: 74 Member
Is anyone else dealing with dawn phenomenon. When I get up in the morning 4am I have a blood glucose readings from 100 to 121. I am not a diabetic, but I bought the meter so I could check my blood and ketone levels. When I test again around 10 am it is between 87 and 95. Any advise.........
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@PaleoInScotland @KnitOrMiss ...I think I remember one of you talking about this experience previously, yes?0
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I think @GaleHawkins may have been rowing the same boat...0
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I think @GaleHawkins may have been rowing the same boat...
Yeah, I sure some of the other LCHF peeps with personal experience will chime in here shortly.
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Yes my BG level drops up to 10 points after I first eat each morning. Being in deep nutritional ketosis and getting readings as high as 107 blew my mind. One researcher reports finding nine different hormone types that work to keep BG levels from going low.
The human body seems well equipped with many different systems so it does not die prematurely. 1 -
Go to Web MD & look up Dawn Phenomenon and the Somogyi Effect. If I knew how to post a link here I would but alas I don't.0
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I'm a T2 diabetic, for 11 years. I had traditional overnight Dawn Phenomenon in the early years, which I managed by working with my doc to adjust my medication timings. We tried various things, from exercise at night to having a carbohydrate snack to prevent the lows, but in the end, I split my meds and had a morning dose and evening dose, versus just one large morning dose.
My body now appears to go through a natural rise and fall of glucose that happens with or without food, albeit the addition of food obviously enhances thise swings. My BS usually hits its highest from 8am to 10am, regardless of when I wake, what I eat or when I exercise. I jokingly call this my mid-morning phenomenon.
Its probably worth a chat with your doc and having your hba1c checked so you can see if you're experiencing any other periods of higher blood sugar over time. I'd also recommend experimenting with your food timings, the volume of carbs you eat at the end of the day and the time of day that you exercise to see if you can improve those morning numbers.1 -
I just read this article this weekend... http://chriskresser.com/when-your-“normal”-blood-sugar-isn’t-normal-part-2/ In it he talks about lc diets. There is also another link within it to a blog called Hyperlipid. Both talk about it.
I've noticed a few higher for me FBG but my daytime and post meal numbers are great. However, before starting LC, I had not been testing regularly in a long time - so its possible my FBG had been climbing.1 -
That number going up to 120+ seems suspicious of insulin resistance... Good thing you're low carbing now
Anyway, it's natural for blood sugar to be higher in the morning because of the way the body wakes us from sleep. I don't know all the fine details but essentially, cortisol is released and glycogen from the liver. In an insulin sensitive body, this would probably have bg topping out barely over 100 because insulin responds and the cells are sensitive to it. If it's rising that high, sounds like some resistance is going on. Of course the best way to become more insulin sensitive is to eat in such a way that your body produces less insulin... And you are, so I would expect this improve in time.1 -
Fasting BG was 118 and BK (blood ketone level) was 0.07 at 8:30 this morning and 122 an hour later after eating with BK level of 0.06. I had mainly eaten nuts before the second reading. I have more glucose and keto strips coming for my Precision Xtra meter so I can drill down to learn more about my readings if this morning that was about 20-30 points higher. Those suckers have to nearly $1 and $3 each in open packages on eBay.
I really have not paid much attention to BG levels over the past year. I did eat a boat load of watermelon last night about 7 pm.1 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »Fasting BG was 118 and BK (blood ketone level) was 0.07 at 8:30 this morning and 122 an hour later after eating with BK level of 0.06. I had mainly eaten nuts before the second reading. I have more glucose and keto strips coming for my Precision Xtra meter so I can drill down to learn more about my readings if this morning that was about 20-30 points higher. Those suckers have to nearly $1 and $3 each in open packages on eBay.
I really have not paid much attention to BG levels over the past year. I did eat a boat load of watermelon last night about 7 pm.
Gale - Have you found a good source for the BK strips (other than pot luck on eBay)?
Thx.0 -
Just eBay pot luck. The last time I stocked up they were like $0.50/$1.50 each vs. $1/$3 like the other day.
I may put in a lot of low ball bids and see if that works. Normally I only do Buy It Now. Dates are not a big deal in my case but someone had some that expired like Sept 2016 yet still had a high price.1 -
Got it. I have been buying my BG strips in a similar way - huge lots (500+) that expire the following month.
With the market for BK strips so small, it probably takes more effort to find the deals, but I'll add them to my eBay list.
Thanks for the tip.0 -
@RalfLott if you're buying discounted name brand BG strips, you may want to try store brand ones from Walgreens or RiteAid, they're usually about 50% less then the full priced name brand ones. Im sure Walmart probably sells generic ones too. If the price balances out, I'd recommend generic strips over name brand expired strips. I don't miss that expense anymore!1
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@PaleoInScotland - Do you no longer test, or do you get your strips for cheap now?
FYI, I've been getting soon-expiring Bayer Contour Next strips off eBay in boxes of 100 for around $10. Amazon's best price for strips with 2017 expiration dates is a little over double that.
The Walmart price for 100 Relion test strips last time I checked was about $30, but I haven't looked for ones that expire soon. They could be a good bit cheaper.
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@PaleoInScotland - Do you no longer test, or do you get your strips for cheap now?
FYI, I've been getting soon-expiring Bayer Contour Next strips off eBay in boxes of 100 for around $10. Amazon's best price for strips with 2017 expiration dates is a little over double that.
The Walmart price for 100 Relion test strips last time I checked was about $30, but I haven't looked for ones that expire soon. They could be a good bit cheaper.
I'm apparently missing a money making opportunity. My daughter has an RX for 300 contour next strips per month that costs me $25. She only uses about 100 of them lately so we aren't filling the RX each month. I totally need to be selling these things! Same with the CGM for Medtronic mini med pump. Those things are crazy expensive and insurance is paying 100% right now and she's not even using them! I have $1300 worth sitting in a cabinet collecting dust!1 -
grandmaJMB wrote: »Is anyone else dealing with dawn phenomenon. When I get up in the morning 4am I have a blood glucose readings from 100 to 121. I am not a diabetic, but I bought the meter so I could check my blood and ketone levels. When I test again around 10 am it is between 87 and 95. Any advise.........
Me too. I am prediabetic. I was... well, I am again I guess. LOL
My highest BG reading of the day is usually around 7-8am, before I eat. It is especially high if I eat something at night (around 9-10pm). Oddly the carb content of a late snack seems to have no effect at all on what my BG will be in the morning. Plus my BG can be perfectly normal at bed yet up to 20-30 points higher in the morning.
My BG is usually above a 100 in the morning, even as high as 130, and then it falls for the rest of the day. Sometimes it can fall 30 points within the first couple of hours of getting up. And after breakfast. It drives me nuts.
I have no advice on how to handle it since I am not managing it well. Small tricks like apple cider vinegar at bed or cinnamon don't seem to help me. Supplements (from Dr Bernstein's Diabetes Solution book) haven't done anything noticeable. Eating in the evening is more likely to give me a higher fasting BG but it is not reliably true. The othe day I had a cookie at bed (bad me - kiddie birthday leftover) and woke with a 80 but the day before I had 1 slice of cheese before bed and woke with a 120. Exercise helps a bit but I can't get out in the evenings to walk (on most nights), and my afternoon exercise doesn't seem to help as much. You should try those tricks though (protein at bed, vinegar or wine, etc); you never know what might help.
I'm looking into metformin now.
Unfortunately, many would consider your fasting blood glucose numbers to be prediabetic - there is probably some insulin resistance there. Low carb is probably a good path for you now.1 -
Sunny_Bunny_ wrote: »@PaleoInScotland - Do you no longer test, or do you get your strips for cheap now?
FYI, I've been getting soon-expiring Bayer Contour Next strips off eBay in boxes of 100 for around $10. Amazon's best price for strips with 2017 expiration dates is a little over double that.
The Walmart price for 100 Relion test strips last time I checked was about $30, but I haven't looked for ones that expire soon. They could be a good bit cheaper.
I'm apparently missing a money making opportunity. My daughter has an RX for 300 contour next strips per month that costs me $25. She only uses about 100 of them lately so we aren't filling the RX each month. I totally need to be selling these things! Same with the CGM for Medtronic mini med pump. Those things are crazy expensive and insurance is paying 100% right now and she's not even using them! I have $1300 worth sitting in a cabinet collecting dust!
I'll betcha your local health department & homeless shelters would have some suggestions. (Animal shelters need the stuff, too. )
Insulin for Life (?) collects supplies for use in developing countries, where death rates for diabetes-related conditions can be pretty high. If I'm not mistaken, it had a pretty good review at Charity Navigator or one of the other rating services last time I looked at diabetes orgs (in contrast to the ADA, which had incurred over $50m in fundraising expenses in a single year..).1 -
@PaleoInScotland - Do you no longer test, or doap now?
FYI, I've been getting soon-expiring Bayer Contour Next strips off eBay in boxes of 100 for around $10. Amazon's best price for strips with 2017 expiration dates is a little over double that.
The Walmart price for 100 Relion test strips last time I checked was about $30, but I haven't looked for ones that expire soon. They could be a good bit cheaper.
@RalfLott That's a great price, tough to beat it! You might want to grab a bottle of test liquid just so you can test your strips periodically for accuracy if they're actually expired. Its good to have on hand if you receive an unexpected reading.
I definitely still test, I just don't live in America anymore My test strips are free here in the UK. Many diabetics pay for their own strips here if they take oral meds as NHS doesn't think that they'll change their behaviour based on the readings, so they won't prescribe strips, but as I'm still technically an insulin patient, I get all the strips I need. That's one of the reasons I'm hesitant to tell my doc that I rarely inject anymore. 1 -
That's great - less $ spent on supplies and fewer injections!
I bought a bottle of test juice with the first batch, and to my surprise, each of 3 free meters I picked up with large orders came with its own bottle as well.
My insurance co recently decided to start covering diabetes testing supplies - we'll see how that works in practice - quite possibly, there's a short list of eligible meters and strips; but it's not that limited in the policy language.
I'm still trying to figure out how to arrange the communications between the physician, supply house, and insurance co. As far as I can tell, if I can persuade my endocrinologist to prescribe ketone test strips, even they might (theoretically) be covered. Yep, I'll believe it when I see 'em....0 -
We are on Anthem and CVS-Caremark. I recently asked my endo for a script for 6x daily testing with Glu strips instead of once daily. Imagine my surprise when my insurance actually came through for me! CVS had a three month supply of 600 strips for $25!!
My A1c was 7.4 three months ago. I have been on LCHF since third week of June. My overall glucose, premeal and 2 Hr monthly average is around 93! I was 179 lbs at my last visit and now am 164 pounds. I am on 1000 mg x2 ER Metformin and Jardiance every other day. Looking forward to my next visit and hope to drop Jardiance since I have had a few glu readings in the 60s.
Do I really need to ask for whole blood ketone meter and strips? My urine strips (bought at Wally World) shows a moderate amount of ketones.3 -
Forgot to mention my dawn phenom went from the 140's to the mid 90's after I started lchf. I am noticing a trend downward with all my readings as the weeks go by.2
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We are on Anthem and CVS-Caremark. I recently asked my endo for a script for 6x daily testing with Glu strips instead of once daily. Imagine my surprise when my insurance actually came through for me! CVS had a three month supply of 600 strips for $25!!
My A1c was 7.4 three months ago. I have been on LCHF since third week of June. My overall glucose, premeal and 2 Hr monthly average is around 93! I was 179 lbs at my last visit and now am 164 pounds. I am on 1000 mg x2 ER Metformin and Jardiance every other day. Looking forward to my next visit and hope to drop Jardiance since I have had a few glu readings in the 60s.
Do I really need to ask for whole blood ketone meter and strips? My urine strips (bought at Wally World) shows a moderate amount of ketones.
@Aquawave -Good for you!
You probably don't *need* the blood ketone strips (especially at the normal retail price), but if they're covered by insurance, it would be nice to get more accurate readings than what the peestix yield (which can be hydration-dependent).
Congrats on your terrific progress.0 -
I am dealing with high fasting blood glucose numbers - dawn phenomenon but otherwise normal lab work (all vitamin numbers came back in normal range - they never have been before, so this is all do to keto!) thyroid came back normal, cortisol came back normal, B's came back normal, A1C came back at 5.7 which was a huge reduction. so Keto works! But my fasting blood glucose has been averaging in the 140's. I am 8 months into Keto diet /lifestyle change and I had agreeed with Dr that at the 6 month mark, if it didn't change or reduce, I would agree to metformin. So as of almost 4 weeks ago, I got on 500mg extended release of met at night. no changes. Until last week, when I added 500mg of turmeric + 1000mg of Cinnamon+Chromium. Then my values decreased to around 115 FBG. I have been doing Keto for 8 months, hardcore, no cheats and only lost 35lbs. The insulin resisitance has been fierce (Dawn Phenomenon). I can't figure it out. No matter what I do, nothing is really fixing it and I am at stall after stall after stall. I stick to 20 g or under carbs per day with an occasional 30 or 40g day. It's frustrating.1
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email4jenp wrote: »I am dealing with high fasting blood glucose numbers - dawn phenomenon but otherwise normal lab work (all vitamin numbers came back in normal range - they never have been before, so this is all do to keto!) thyroid came back normal, cortisol came back normal, B's came back normal, A1C came back at 5.7 which was a huge reduction. so Keto works! But my fasting blood glucose has been averaging in the 140's. I am 8 months into Keto diet /lifestyle change and I had agreeed with Dr that at the 6 month mark, if it didn't change or reduce, I would agree to metformin. So as of almost 4 weeks ago, I got on 500mg extended release of met at night. no changes. Until last week, when I added 500mg of turmeric + 1000mg of Cinnamon+Chromium. Then my values decreased to around 115 FBG. I have been doing Keto for 8 months, hardcore, no cheats and only lost 35lbs. The insulin resisitance has been fierce (Dawn Phenomenon). I can't figure it out. No matter what I do, nothing is really fixing it and I am at stall after stall after stall. I stick to 20 g or under carbs per day with an occasional 30 or 40g day. It's frustrating.
As long as my health markers are improving across the board I'm hoping for the best long-term. We're all different and there's no such thing as a case study perfect results it seems. Keep up your great results and they should just keep getting better over time. I have been at this for about 2 years now and seeing steady Improvement.0 -
Me too. I am prediabetic. I was... well, I am again I guess. LOL
My highest BG reading of the day is usually around 7-8am, before I eat. It is especially high if I eat something at night (around 9-10pm). Oddly the carb content of a late snack seems to have no effect at all on what my BG will be in the morning. Plus my BG can be perfectly normal at bed yet up to 20-30 points higher in the morning.
My BG is usually above a 100 in the morning, even as high as 130, and then it falls for the rest of the day. Sometimes it can fall 30 points within the first couple of hours of getting up. And after breakfast. It drives me
EXACTLY!!!! Mine has no rhyme or reason. So crazy! I am already on Metformin.0
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