PT suggestion: Bike followed by long run

Djproulx

I know of plans that call for fairly short transition runs (say 10-20 minutes, 1-2 miles, etc.) following bike sessions to help athletes get used to the bike/run feeling in the legs.

What I'm asking about is this: Does anyone have experience with doing longer runs (60 min or more) after a bike ride as a way to simulate the muscle endurance needed to complete a longer distance race, such as a HIM distance? The reason I ask is that my PT suggested this approach might help with some issues that only surface during longer events.

Does anyone here do this type of brick workout, and if so, what are your goals in doing them?

Any thoughts are appreciated.

glevinso

If you feel the need to do this to give yourself the mental boost of knowing you are capable of doing it, then it can be valuable. It is not physiologically useful though.

You are always better off squeezing in as much quality work for your time as you can. Running for 60+ minutes off of a significant bike workout is not really a recipe for having a quality run.

What issues does your PT think surface during longer events? Also think about recovery. If you have a training session that brings you deep into some sort of dark pain cave (like simulating a long event) then you are bringing unnecessary damage onto yourself that you need to recovery from.

The last thing you want to do, for example, is do a session like this on a Saturday, and then be totally wrecked for your (very important) long run on Sunday. Or if you do this as your Sunday workout, then suddenly find yourself unable to get quality training in on Monday, or even Tuesday.

The goal of long training sessions is not to dig yourself into a deep hole that you must spend days recovering from. Your long sessions need to be appropriately sized such that you can push your boundaries just a bit, but still recover in time to train again the next day.


*** On this note, my coach has scheduled me for a 5hr ride next weekend followed up by a 40 minute transition run at tempo pace, so take what I say here with a grain of salt. However I am also hitting the very top of an Ironman build and my fitness is in a crazy high place right now.

Djproulx

@glevinso Yes, understand and agree with your points around reasons not to do such a long workout as a general practice. A bit more context around my PT's comments may help clarify:

I have been dealing with a recurring calf/achilles issue that is caused by a neurological problem. Specifically, my glute muscles don't always engage, particularly after long periods in hip flexion (eg 3 hr bike ride) . When the glute doesn't fire, then other muscles take over to do the work, such as my calf muscle. This leads to overuse problems, such as soreness, seizing, etc.

To combat this, PT has me doing strengthening work in the gym. I'm also doing frequent hip flexor stretches, immediately followed by glute activations ( a few quick squats) to train my body to make the transition from Hip flexion to glute activation more automatic for me.

With this in mind, I have made solid improvements, but the problem still occurs occasionally during long workouts. This season, as I trained for the Timberman race, I had an occurrence during mile 11 of a 13 mile Sunday long run. Most recently, during the Timberman race, I came off the bike feeling pretty good, but was hit with the calf cramping issue at mile 3 of the run segment and had to slow to almost a walking pace to bring it under control and I stayed at a reduced pace for the remaining 10 miles. Cost me roughly 15 minutes in my finishing time.

So the PT made 2 suggestions: 1) Be more vigilant in my stretching and drills, particularly pre workout, and 2) try to build up muscle endurance in the glutes to build up resistance to fatigue and the breakdown that seems to occurs during prolonged workouts. (3 hrs&)

Finally, my PT comes from a Gymnastics background and is not a triathlete, so she suggested I check with other sources, and perhaps a tri coach, to get suggestions on how to address this problem through training.

A bit long, but that's the context.

mleech77

My coach has me do a long bike followed by a long run brick a couple times leading up to longer races. This is solely so that I can dial in my nutrition in a controlled environment. Other than that it's always short run bricks.

BrianSharpe

Late in the game replying but with my club's Cast iron program (winter time dryland conditioning) we work up to a 2 hr indoor ride and up to a 1hr run after for the very reason you stated.

I credit this approach with preparing me for the 5150 at Tremblant (we have a regular cadre at the club that go every year)