Net Carbs
amyhoss
Posts: 414 Member
I started Keto on Monday so this is only day three for me. I feel pretty good and I like it so far. I was wondering if I should be looking at total carbs or net carbs in my diet. I've heard net carbs are all that matter but I haven't seen much info on net carbs here in the forumn.
Also, I have an open diary and I'd love to find some Keto friends. Add me!
Also, I have an open diary and I'd love to find some Keto friends. Add me!
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Feel free to add me!
The total vs. net carb debate is ongoing and it seems like everyone does it a bit differently. I do a bit of a combo - i.e. I try to keep my total under 30 (mostly) but keep an eye on net and I don't sweat it if I go over a bit, knowing that some of that was fiber.
You are starting out so I would assume you are trying to get into ketosis, so the lower your carbs the better. Once you are fat adapted (can take several weeks) you may have a bit more flexibility.
This is very very much ymmv as everyone's body reacts differently. Over time you'll get better and better at figuring out what works for you but I think being pretty strict in the beginning will serve you later on as life happens and you have to figure out how to make choices going forward.
Good luck!3 -
I always counted total because it just made more sense to me. I never understood why there was a need to subtract fiber. I don't think subtracting sugar alcohols is a good idea. That could literally allow someone to think eating desserts all day every day was somehow Keto appropriate. That's not how it works.
If you typically eat 50g carbs a day and 15 of that is insoluble fiber, then the net count would be 35... I just don't know why 50g isn't a good enough number... why do the math just to get 35? Just eat 50g if you want. Or 35g... or 40 or 20... with or without math, it's all the same in the end. You still ate X carbs and X fiber... who cares what the subtraction is.
Sometimes the subtraction is used to fill the diet full of sweets. That's a bad idea.2 -
It makes me feel better when I do the math on my log. It's all a mind game. My daughter is low carb too and when she reads that 40% of the carbs are from fiber she feels better about her choice. So in this house we do the math. I agree with @Sunny_Bunny that at the end of the day it doesn't matter. I also agree that LCHF will not work if we choose to eat "junk" all day and subtract our sugar alcohols though I do subtract them when I eat sweets. We are not diabetic or insulin resistant here and I try not to eat that sort of stuff all the time (but I do have days) so we subtract it as well. For me personally, my calorie goal is lower considering my size and when I stay within my calories I couldn't even consider eating sweets as more than a treat because the calorie count is high and I'd be starving. Without the high fat my tummy grumbles - I'd rather take my calories in fat than sweet.
You are more than welcome to add me as a friend. I've been Keto since April and try to keep my net carbs at 20 or fewer. My daughter is LC and staying around 100 g carbs a day.2 -
I've heard people recommending doing total carbs ONLY because it helps keep you more honest. Like @Sunny_Bunny_ said before, you can have tons of chemically added fiber and sugar alcohols and think you are doing fine, so for newbies I've heard total is better than net. HOWEVER, if you can keep yourself honest and realize that sugar alcohols can cause insulin spikes similarly to how sugar does so you try to limit those and don't overload on high fiber protein bars in lieu of meals, then do net if you want
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Sunny_Bunny_ wrote: »Sometimes the subtraction is used to fill the diet full of sweets. That's a bad idea.
It can be but it isn't a bad idea for everyone
I use net. My total is always over 60...sometimes as high as 100 but my goal is net carbs <60grams per day. I eat a lot of nuts and will have quest bars and adkins bars and other things with differing levels of carbs so if i counted only total carbs i'd really have no idea where i was at.
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Feel free to add me. I try to keep to under 40g total carbs/day
I'm in the UK and total carbs seems to be more common here, I've never counted net. The less maths the better for me, also packaging labels in the UK show total carbs rather than net so it's easier for logging.
That said, whatever works and is sustainable for you.0 -
Hi you can add me I've been lchf since May. I do net carbs but aim for less than 50 grams total. I usually stay under 30. I like the feeling of a range :)I don't subtract sugar alcohols but I do avoid them since I feel like the affect my blood sugar (I'm a diabetic)3
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I've been doing LCHF for about a month or so and I had questions about net vs actual carbs as well. I found myself just counting actual carbs in order to keep myself in line, especially since I was haut starting out. I say count actual carbs and once you're in more of a rhythm you can play around and with adding more if you need to. Good luck with everything!1
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Feel free to add me.
I typically do total carbs around 30-40. If I'm on the high end and it's from fiber that's ok. Some say certain sugar alcohols don't count as "real" carbs but I don't "trust" that. So if I eat something like a protein bar or Halo Top ice cream that has 15-25 total carbs but says 5 net I generally try to make sure the rest of my day is super low to fit in the total carbs.1 -
Sunny_Bunny_ wrote: »Sometimes the subtraction is used to fill the diet full of sweets. That's a bad idea.
It can be but it isn't a bad idea for everyone
I use net. My total is always over 60...sometimes as high as 100 but my goal is net carbs <60grams per day. I eat a lot of nuts and will have quest bars and adkins bars and other things with differing levels of carbs so if i counted only total carbs i'd really have no idea where i was at.
I'm not saying a person shouldn't or couldn't include sweets. I'm saying there are some that will FILL their diet FULL of sweets because they believe these sugar alcohols don't count. They absolutely do. Maybe not at the full degree, of course. But the mental component of "needing" a dessert type food a couple times a day or even in an every single day basis, can be a long term problem.
The idea of counting net carbs came from Michael Eads book Protein Power. He has said during interviews that the way people are using the net carb count is not what he intended. In his book, counting net carbs was introduced as a way to encourage people to eat more green vegetables. NOT to allow for bulking fiber and sugar alcohol. He said he found that people were restricting their green vegetable intake because they were trying so hard to keep the carbs low. He believes that green vegetables should be a large part of the diet and so introduced the idea to get people to feel comfortable allowing larger portions of them. It was even a mind game then. There was no reason those people couldn't have just raised the total count higher to allow for them. But he realized that people believe the lower number is somehow better.
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Sunny_Bunny_ wrote: »
I'm not saying a person shouldn't or couldn't include sweets. I'm saying there are some that will FILL their diet FULL of sweets because they believe these sugar alcohols don't count. They absolutely do. Maybe not at the full degree, of course. But the mental component of "needing" a dessert type food a couple times a day or even in an every single day basis, can be a long term problem.
The idea of counting net carbs came from Michael Eads book Protein Power. He has said during interviews that the way people are using the net carb count is not what he intended. In his book, counting net carbs was introduced as a way to encourage people to eat more green vegetables. NOT to allow for bulking fiber and sugar alcohol. He said he found that people were restricting their green vegetable intake because they were trying so hard to keep the carbs low. He believes that green vegetables should be a large part of the diet and so introduced the idea to get people to feel comfortable allowing larger portions of them. It was even a mind game then. There was no reason those people couldn't have just raised the total count higher to allow for them. But he realized that people believe the lower number is somehow better.
As i'm a protein power grad it make sense why I've come to be comfortable with net carbs then I just find that given the fact that I eat a variety of foods that i need to watch my consumption due to carb content but it varies daily I wouldn't be able to count total and have a good sense of where I was at...so net carbs works well for me. It's not a bout a number that's higher or lower for me(although I can see that point for some). And for the record I only really do that for fiber and the one Adkins bar I might have a few times a week. It mostly keeps me in line with my nuts consumption 
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@Sunny_Bunny_ I call that the Weight Watchers effect - i.e. as long as you don't eat over your points its all okay...until it isn't and you're living on a cup of ice cream and thinking its still going to work for you!2
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Thank you for all the info. *Most* of my carbs are coming from green vegetables so that was my main reason for asking. Broccoli is my favorite and I could eat it all day long but a cup is 12 total carbs or 7 net carbs. I've been keeping my total carbs around 35g so far.1
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I do 50g net (ish--I'm not super strict, but my average is 40-60 net).
I will say I don't think there are many people who overdo the sugar alcohols more than once or twice... not unless they are secretly into purging...3 -
Net carbs is what matters. You subtract the fiber because it not used by the body, it's just bulk that passes through the intestines. I don't even understand why fiber is included in the carb count in nutritional info.
Stay away from sugar alcohols, they are not your friends! First, SA are not all equal and many of them are actually metabolized by the body, and most of them do have a glycemic index, some almost equal to sugar.1 -
I do 50g net (ish--I'm not super strict, but my average is 40-60 net).
I will say I don't think there are many people who overdo the sugar alcohols more than once or twice... not unless they are secretly into purging...
hahaha (not really), yeah that was a rude reality the first time I discovered SAs and ate like an entire box of "sugar free" chocolates.
Then to add a further insult, it kicked me out of ketosis, took me a few days to get back so I lost almost a week of weight loss potential. 1 -
When I did log I used net totals only on the veggies I consumed. I don't use sugar alcohols, so this didn't come into play for me. I only eat veggies about once a week, at this point. I've found that having them daily bloated my belly terribly! So, it's really a moot point, for me, now.0
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I havent logged in a few months. At this point I have a very good handle on my WOE and no longer really need to log. When I was logging I "did the math" mainly for psychological benefit. I was focused on staying under 20g per day so on days when I was at 25 or so it made me feel better about my progress if I subtracted the fiber and stayed under 20. The reality is that my carb count was so low it didn't really matter.1
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Part of the decision about net v. total depends on why you are eating low carb. I'm controlling my diabetes by diet. What matters for my purposes is net carbs, because the fiber does not convert to blood glucose. As a general rule, as long as I keep below 20 net carbs in any 2 hours period, my blood glucose remains in the normal range.2
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silverfiend wrote: »I do 50g net (ish--I'm not super strict, but my average is 40-60 net).
I will say I don't think there are many people who overdo the sugar alcohols more than once or twice... not unless they are secretly into purging...
hahaha (not really), yeah that was a rude reality the first time I discovered SAs and ate like an entire box of "sugar free" chocolates. Then to add a further insult, it kicked me out of ketosis, took me a few days to get back so I lost almost a week of weight loss potential.
To add to the beauty of the SA sneak attack scenario, different SAs appear to have different ways to trip your purge circuit.
Sorbitol and mannitol seem to wait for the same 4-foot fuse to burn every time and >poof!< - an explosion of porcelain pyrotechnics! Xylitol, on the other hand, is like someone leaning further and further toward the edge of your canoe: you take it one inch too far, and suddenly ....
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yeah, and they are different for everyone. Maltitol, which is what they use in most SF candies, is the one that gets me. The others just cause a little discomfort and gas.
What I don't like is that all the packaging treat them as zero calorie, but its not true. Many of them are metabolized, they are just slower than sugar (some more than others). So you read the label and say "great! these won't affect my diet/ketosis/etc", but some ARE carbs and will sabotage your diet.0
