Bike Trainers
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ON first glance i thought you meant trainers as in what you wear on your feet!
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If you are super cheap like me, can search for free plans, and don't care about virtual rides, etc....you can get one super cheap on Amazon. It comes with riser and skewer. Oh, it's $55 + S&H.
I got my dumb trainer for $75 if I recall correctly. It was a couple of years back, and I shopped around for quite a while and got it on sale. It has served me well. I want to upgrade to a smart one for things like Zwift. The price is likely going to make it prohibitive at the moment since the ones I have seen recommended the best prices I can find in Canadian dollars is $800-1200 and at that level I can get a power meter for my bike which I would rather have. I am sure shopping around I can probably find something affordable.1 -
rileysowner wrote: »If you are super cheap like me, can search for free plans, and don't care about virtual rides, etc....you can get one super cheap on Amazon. It comes with riser and skewer. Oh, it's $55 + S&H.
I got my dumb trainer for $75 if I recall correctly. It was a couple of years back, and I shopped around for quite a while and got it on sale. It has served me well. I want to upgrade to a smart one for things like Zwift. The price is likely going to make it prohibitive at the moment since the ones I have seen recommended the best prices I can find in Canadian dollars is $800-1200 and at that level I can get a power meter for my bike which I would rather have. I am sure shopping around I can probably find something affordable.
Do you want a smart one because of tracking power? Otherwise, if you use the Garmin speed and cadence sensors (or any Ant+ or BTE speed/cadence sensors), those will work with Zwift and the other virtual riding sites / programs. Some of the sites will do an estimated power based on your cadence, etc. Like I said, I am super cheap, and have no budget for any of the fun toys, this always finding work-arounds.0 -
I just reckoned that a grand on an indoor trainer setup was cheaper over 2-3 years than the wear and tear on bikes riding outdoors, so said screw it and bought myself one... that was just over 5 years ago, and it's still paying dividends...
Plus, I'm worth it, there's nobody else here to lay claim to my money, and i'm buggered if there'll be anything left over when I die, because there's no bugger to leave it to! So, If I want something, sod it, I'm having it.
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rileysowner wrote: »If you are super cheap like me, can search for free plans, and don't care about virtual rides, etc....you can get one super cheap on Amazon. It comes with riser and skewer. Oh, it's $55 + S&H.
I got my dumb trainer for $75 if I recall correctly. It was a couple of years back, and I shopped around for quite a while and got it on sale. It has served me well. I want to upgrade to a smart one for things like Zwift. The price is likely going to make it prohibitive at the moment since the ones I have seen recommended the best prices I can find in Canadian dollars is $800-1200 and at that level I can get a power meter for my bike which I would rather have. I am sure shopping around I can probably find something affordable.
Do you want a smart one because of tracking power? Otherwise, if you use the Garmin speed and cadence sensors (or any Ant+ or BTE speed/cadence sensors), those will work with Zwift and the other virtual riding sites / programs. Some of the sites will do an estimated power based on your cadence, etc. Like I said, I am super cheap, and have no budget for any of the fun toys, this always finding work-arounds.
Yes I would like power tracking. I already toasted one speed and cadence sensor, so I really don't feel like putting another on the bike. When I ride outdoors I use a Moov Now for cadence and GPS in the app for speed and distance. It is indoor that I would like more. Albeit a speed cadence sensor is less expensive than a smart trainer.
The other thing I would probably want, and will likely have to save longer to get, is to have Zwift or similar apps adjust the resistance automatically. The whole idea of getting a smart trainer is something I just started shopping for, so it is likely not going to happen for a while so I have time to save for it.0 -
there's no pockets in shrouds guys, just buy something decent.
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If that is what you are looking for, you sadly just missed tons of cycling sales. I think the type of trainer you want typically goes in the $1k range. CycleOps has Hammer Direct Drive Train for example.0
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If that is what you are looking for, you sadly just missed tons of cycling sales. I think the type of trainer you want typically goes in the $1k range. CycleOps has Hammer Direct Drive Train for example.
It is becoming quite clear that $1000 plus is what I will be looking at currently. Again, hopefully the prices will come down a bit in time, or I can discover a good sale.0 -
This is exactly what I was researching last night! Great discussion!
I got an email from nashbar that offered their low end liquid trainer for $135. I'm guessing it wouldn't satisfy me.
The Cycleops Fluid 2 is $300. That is probably the right price for me. Still pretty basic.
I might wish for power monitoring, but it would seem best to add that to the bike, not the trainer. Then you can use it while actually riding as well. (I might just find the info depressing.)1 -
Jthanmyfitnesspal wrote: »The Cycleops Fluid 2 is $300. That is probably the right price for me. Still pretty basic.
I might wish for power monitoring, but it would seem best to add that to the bike, not the trainer. Then you can use it while actually riding as well. (I might just find the info depressing.)
Nothing wrong with the Fluid 2, but look around and see if you can find a Kurt Kinetic Road Machine in the same price range. You probably will be able to. If so, the Kurt has the benefit of having a sealed fluid reservoir with the impeller magnetically coupled to the shaft and roller. In other words, there's no physical penetration of the fluid reservoir that can leak. The Cyclops, on the other hand, depends on an O-ring to keep fluid inside the chamber. In all honesty, the Cyclops will almost surely be fine, but there have been reports of some of them leaking fluid while I've never heard a report of that happening with the Kurt. In all other respects they are very comparable trainers.
And yes, if your choice is between power via trainer vs. power on the bike, go with power on the bike every time.
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(snip)
...yes, if your choice is between power via trainer vs. power on the bike, go with power on the bike every time.
yep - even if it means "on all the bikes" - which does get a bit spendy... I've drawn the line at my 2 "serious riding" bikes - the rest of the stable only get ridden for "smiles not miles" anyway, so advanced telemetry isn't really something thats worth another £400+ per bike - though getting a 1980's campag crankset with a powermeter would be a tough ask anyway...
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I have powermeters on everything but the mountain bike... and that's coming soon. For whatever it's worth, I have good justifications (at least to myself) for all of them:yep - even if it means "on all the bikes" - which does get a bit spendy... I've drawn the line at my 2 "serious riding" bikes- Road bike - no explanation needed
- 'Cross bike - up until this year it was my main winter training bike, what with the gravel roads across the street from my office being perfect for intervals
- TT bike - well.... how else are you going to pace a TT?
- Mountain bike - upcoming. Seems silly to have just this one bike with no PM, right?
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I would have to figure out if I could put a power meter on the crank of my current road bike. It is quite old (early 1980's when I got it used), but I like it and don't really want to spend money on a new one. Mountain bike is just for running around on and off road, usually used when camping or running errands where I have a bike trailer behind me. It was cheap and that is what I wanted. I can't see putting a power meter on it.0
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Amazon just dropped the price on the Kinetic Road Machine 2.0. (Basic fluid resistance with no electronics.) I'm leaning toward it.
I would stick with my Wahoo TICKR heart rate monitor to assess level of effort. I already have the Wahoo cadence as well. Could add the speedometer for modest $$. Relative LOE is most important to me since my absolute LOE isn't particularly impressive.1 -
Bottom line: Bought the Kinetic Road Machine 2.0 from Amazon. Came on Sunday (!). Using it with Wahoo fitness HRM, speed, and cadence. Pretty quiet on a concrete floor.1
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Jthanmyfitnesspal wrote: »Bottom line: Bought the Kinetic Road Machine 2.0 from Amazon. Came on Sunday (!). Using it with Wahoo fitness HRM, speed, and cadence. Pretty quiet on a concrete floor.
I think you will like it. That's about as bullet-proof a trainer as you'll find.
Mostly because I'm curious, how are you using the trainer? Do you have/are you using a training plan of any sort? TrainerRoad or Zwift? Sufferfest? Something else?0 -
I will probably just run my own workouts. I notice there are a few free training videos on YouTube.1
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Jthanmyfitnesspal wrote: »I will probably just run my own workouts. I notice there are a few free training videos on YouTube.
Yes there are. GCN (Global Cycling Network) has a fair number of them.0 -
So to run something like Zwift or TrainerRoad with a dumb trainer, what is needed?0
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rileysowner wrote: »So to run something like Zwift or TrainerRoad with a dumb trainer, what is needed?
In both cases, the only requirement is a speed sensor. From that, assuming a "known" trainer, i.e. one that the software has a power curve for, either program can derive a "virtual power" number. Assuming you control the variables, notably tire pressure and trainer tension, it's a very consistent and usable way to train.0 -
rileysowner wrote: »So to run something like Zwift or TrainerRoad with a dumb trainer, what is needed?
In both cases, the only requirement is a speed sensor. From that, assuming a "known" trainer, i.e. one that the software has a power curve for, either program can derive a "virtual power" number. Assuming you control the variables, notably tire pressure and trainer tension, it's a very consistent and usable way to train.
That sounds simple enough to put together with my current dumb trainer. It probably won't be a known trainer since it was quite inexpensive, but it will hopefully do well enough. I guess I will have to look into it more.1 -
rileysowner wrote: »So to run something like Zwift or TrainerRoad with a dumb trainer, what is needed?
A lot of videos just say "warm up," "increase effort," "sprint," and stuff like that. It's just to keep you from sitting back in your comfort zone. It can be quite helpful.
To know how hard you're pushing, I've found that the heart rate monitor (HRM) is very helpful. First, you need to get a sense of your "max" heart rate (MHR). Just do a solid set of sprints at max effort, then add 10BPM to the highest value you get. Also determine your resting HR (RHR), measured when you first wake up before you move (average several days, it may be high the day after a major workout or race)
Now you can define your training zones:
Zone= RHR + PCT*(MHR - RHR)
Where PCT is the percentage of the training level. For example, my MHR is about 178, my RHR is 55, so my Zone 4 range is 153-166BPM.
The MHR estimate of 220 - AgeInYears is just approximate. It would put my MHR at 165, which I hit almost every time I do cardio. Pshaw!
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rileysowner wrote: »That sounds simple enough to put together with my current dumb trainer. It probably won't be a known trainer since it was quite inexpensive, but it will hopefully do well enough. I guess I will have to look into it more.
You might be surprised. TrainerRoad in particular has a pretty massive list of supported trainers. Do you know what brand and model yours is?
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Jthanmyfitnesspal wrote: »rileysowner wrote: »So to run something like Zwift or TrainerRoad with a dumb trainer, what is needed?
A lot of videos just say "warm up," "increase effort," "sprint," and stuff like that. It's just to keep you from sitting back in your comfort zone. It can be quite helpful.
To know how hard you're pushing, I've found that the heart rate monitor (HRM) is very helpful. First, you need to get a sense of your "max" heart rate (MHR). Just do a solid set of sprints at max effort, then add 10BPM to the highest value you get. Also determine your resting HR (RHR), measured when you first wake up before you move (average several days, it may be high the day after a major workout or race)
Now you can define your training zones:
Zone= RHR + PCT*(MHR - RHR)
Where PCT is the percentage of the training level. For example, my MHR is about 178, my RHR is 55, so my Zone 4 range is 153-166BPM.
The MHR estimate of 220 - AgeInYears is just approximate. It would put my MHR at 165, which I hit almost every time I do cardio. Pshaw!
All good info. Just always keep in mind that HR training, while better than nothing, is still subject to a lot of variables including, but not limited to, heat, stress, caffeine intake, and rest (or lack thereof). That's why training with power, even virtual power with just a speed sensor and TrainerRoad/Zwift/Perfpro/etc is a better solution: there aren't as many variables. 200 watts is 200 watts is 200 watts, whether you've had a bunch of caffeine and no sleep or you're well-rested and topped up on nothing but water.
I realize I sound like a commercial sometimes, but I'm just a firm believer that the tools are out there now, they don't have to be terribly expensive (if you have a speed sensor and some technical savvy you can use Golden Cheetah for free), and they work much better than training with a secondary metric like HR.
Good luck!
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Jthanmyfitnesspal wrote: »rileysowner wrote: »So to run something like Zwift or TrainerRoad with a dumb trainer, what is needed?
A lot of videos just say "warm up," "increase effort," "sprint," and stuff like that. It's just to keep you from sitting back in your comfort zone. It can be quite helpful.
To know how hard you're pushing, I've found that the heart rate monitor (HRM) is very helpful. First, you need to get a sense of your "max" heart rate (MHR). Just do a solid set of sprints at max effort, then add 10BPM to the highest value you get. Also determine your resting HR (RHR), measured when you first wake up before you move (average several days, it may be high the day after a major workout or race)
Now you can define your training zones:
Zone= RHR + PCT*(MHR - RHR)
Where PCT is the percentage of the training level. For example, my MHR is about 178, my RHR is 55, so my Zone 4 range is 153-166BPM.
The MHR estimate of 220 - AgeInYears is just approximate. It would put my MHR at 165, which I hit almost every time I do cardio. Pshaw!
All good info. Just always keep in mind that HR training, while better than nothing, is still subject to a lot of variables including, but not limited to, heat, stress, caffeine intake, and rest (or lack thereof). That's why training with power, even virtual power with just a speed sensor and TrainerRoad/Zwift/Perfpro/etc is a better solution: there aren't as many variables. 200 watts is 200 watts is 200 watts, whether you've had a bunch of caffeine and no sleep or you're well-rested and topped up on nothing but water.
I realize I sound like a commercial sometimes, but I'm just a firm believer that the tools are out there now, they don't have to be terribly expensive (if you have a speed sensor and some technical savvy you can use Golden Cheetah for free), and they work much better than training with a secondary metric like HR.
Good luck!
I was thinking the same thing. Ideal world I would get a power meter or a smart trainer that has one built in. Right now that is out of my financial reach, but I can save up for it and maybe get one (probably and power meter) once I have the money for it. The advantage there is the prices may come down. Right now, getting a speed/cadence sensor to replace the one I broke is and affordable option, and I do have a BT Smart HRM strap that I use with other apps on my Droid. Since Spring is drawing closer, outside rides will replace inside one on the trainer, and then I have other tools to work with. It is more the time on the trainer I want to make more challenging and more interesting.1 -
I think this is a great example of "we are all right!" HR is a great tool as is power. Get 'em all, if you can! We are lucky that so many people sell the sensors and the prices are coming down. I love my Wahoo fitness stuff.1
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I'd amend this to say "if you are not training, a power meter is nothing more than an expensive gadget."if you are not racing, a power meter is nothing more than an expensive gadget. Even if you have one and dont know how to analyze the data, its an expensive gadget to spout off numbers to your friends
Powermeters are tools to help you get stronger, faster, and more fit. Nothing more, nothing less. One doesn't need to be a racer to have any or all of those three as goals. Training for a century? Gran Fondo? Sportive in the Alps riding iconic climbs? MS150? Those are just as valid as the local crit/road race/etc.
If you are trying to get faster as a cyclist, a powermeter can absolutely help you. The caveat is that you either need to understand how to analyze data and be willing to spend the time doing it, or you need to hire a coach to do it for you. To a lesser degree you can use software that will lay out plans and guide you through them, but even then it helps to have enough of an understanding about training with power to be able to analyze results and modify things if needed.
All that said, powermeters are absolutely not necessary. A speed sensor and dumb trainer along with TrainerRoad/Zwift/Perfpro/Fulgaz/et al absolutely can make you stronger and faster without the requirement to spend $$ on a direct force power meter.
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well - here we're very much into needs vs wants, aren't we...
I'm realistic enough to know that these days i'm not fit enough, strong enough, light enough and durable enough to NEED any bike sufficiently evolved to be in any way different to the kind of bike I was riding back when I WAS racing, and fit, strong, light and tough as a b'stard cored b'stard, encrusted with extra b'stards...
So anything much more than a 14 Geared steel framed bike that weighed in at 25lb or so is probably better than I need for anything I do.
But - it's not about needs. I need a car, so I've got a small compact 3 door hatchback, that's nearly 17 years old. I need a roof over my head, so I've got a small 2-bedroom semi-detached... When it comes to "objects of desire" - like items for my hobbies, or recreation, I don't go for what I need, I go for what I WANT - within reason, obviously, I don't spend money that infringes on paying for the things I need - food, shelter, getting to/from work - obviously... BUT - why wear a outfit cut from used hessian (burlap) sacks, when you can wear proper clothes, why eat bread and water when you can eat your favourite meal, why drink only streamwater when you could drink Good Barolo...
Life's too short to waste it "making do" with "good enough" - I'm single, no kids, no dependents or close family, and It's my avowed intention to leave this mortal coil having spent every cent I own so none of the *kitten* in the government can get their hands on it - and hopefully, any of my remaining friends will be able to sell off my toys to raise enough money to have me burned and the ashes scattered on some mountain pass in Italy, and hopefully there'll be enough money left over for everyone to get pissed one last time on me...
I don't NEED a Carbon Bike...
I don't NEED a powermeter on either of the Bikes that I have one on...
I don't NEED a smart-trainer, and the computer it links to, or the 48" screen it displays on...
I don't NEED a beautiful old classic steel bike that's hung on the wall maybe 360 days of the year and only sees tarmac on the other 5 days.
I don't NEED the various HR monitors, assorted Garmins or the other impedimenta.
But I Enjoy Having Them - and that makes me happy. And Being happy is what we're really put on this world to be - everything else is, or should be working towards that...
Be it Being in Relationships, Having an Enjoyable Job, Nice Car, Nice House, Nice Bike, Making a Difference to the World, or the community, or just to a single other person - even in the most extreme case, going off to war and putting your life on the line to make the world a better place - it's all about making yourself happy in the process - and if it's not, then you've failed at the game of Life.
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well - here we're very much into needs vs wants, aren't we...
I'm realistic enough to know that these days i'm not fit enough, strong enough, light enough and durable enough to NEED any bike sufficiently evolved to be in any way different to the kind of bike I was riding back when I WAS racing, and fit, strong, light and tough as a b'stard cored b'stard, encrusted with extra b'stards...
So anything much more than a 14 Geared steel framed bike that weighed in at 25lb or so is probably better than I need for anything I do.
But - it's not about needs. I need a car, so I've got a small compact 3 door hatchback, that's nearly 17 years old. I need a roof over my head, so I've got a small 2-bedroom semi-detached... When it comes to "objects of desire" - like items for my hobbies, or recreation, I don't go for what I need, I go for what I WANT - within reason, obviously, I don't spend money that infringes on paying for the things I need - food, shelter, getting to/from work - obviously... BUT - why wear a outfit cut from used hessian (burlap) sacks, when you can wear proper clothes, why eat bread and water when you can eat your favourite meal, why drink only streamwater when you could drink Good Barolo...
Life's too short to waste it "making do" with "good enough" - I'm single, no kids, no dependents or close family, and It's my avowed intention to leave this mortal coil having spent every cent I own so none of the *kitten* in the government can get their hands on it - and hopefully, any of my remaining friends will be able to sell off my toys to raise enough money to have me burned and the ashes scattered on some mountain pass in Italy, and hopefully there'll be enough money left over for everyone to get pissed one last time on me...
I don't NEED a Carbon Bike...
I don't NEED a powermeter on either of the Bikes that I have one on...
I don't NEED a smart-trainer, and the computer it links to, or the 48" screen it displays on...
I don't NEED a beautiful old classic steel bike that's hung on the wall maybe 360 days of the year and only sees tarmac on the other 5 days.
I don't NEED the various HR monitors, assorted Garmins or the other impedimenta.
But I Enjoy Having Them - and that makes me happy. And Being happy is what we're really put on this world to be - everything else is, or should be working towards that...
Be it Being in Relationships, Having an Enjoyable Job, Nice Car, Nice House, Nice Bike, Making a Difference to the World, or the community, or just to a single other person - even in the most extreme case, going off to war and putting your life on the line to make the world a better place - it's all about making yourself happy in the process - and if it's not, then you've failed at the game of Life.
Well said, sir. Well said indeed.
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