Supplements
Jo2926
Posts: 489 Member
I've been thinking a lot about suppliments as I am worried I'm not getting the full spectrum of nutrition I need (and a big part of this journey is health as well as weight loss). It seems a lot of KETO blogs recomend a long list of suppliments (from general multi vitamins, through magnesium, pottasium, collagen etc etc)
But it doesn't sit well with me, as it feels like the right diet shouldn't need huge amounts of supplements - so I wondered what others do.
I've started taking some trace mineral drops - to see if they have any affect. But what about other things? And if you do take things like Collagen what brand do you recomend (UK based please for brands)
Jo
But it doesn't sit well with me, as it feels like the right diet shouldn't need huge amounts of supplements - so I wondered what others do.
I've started taking some trace mineral drops - to see if they have any affect. But what about other things? And if you do take things like Collagen what brand do you recomend (UK based please for brands)
Jo
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I used to think like this. But then I read on many threads here than a lot of keto-ers do no supplements, not even the recommended ones like sodium, potassium and magnesium.
I personally don't take any supplements either except for the above (they are electrolytes basically - so in my mind, not really vitamins. Taking those three is no different to me than an athlete replacing electrolytes after running), and then a hair growth supplement. (This is not because I started losing my hair on keto or anything, it's just because I actually want to grow them out).
Look carefully at the vegetables allowed on keto, leafy greens, brocolli ect ect. They are all vegetables with a high concentration and variety of nutrients. Personally I think you would get everything you need without needing supplements.0 -
Added thought. You can also turn this thought around. "If I need so many supplements, how is this WOE good for me?"
Go pick up any loaf of bread in the store, and just look at all the vitamins and stuff added to it. Look how many vitamins and minerals are added to cereals.
Modern agriculture has leeched so many nutrients out of our food, that they actually have to add it back in.
I'm sure cavemen needed no supplementation, because their food was different and more nutrient dense.4 -
So the thing is, you don't need the supplements. But if you want to maximize your intake of them in a simple way, supplements make a lot of sense.
I take magnesium several times every day. Not because I believe I'm deficient but because I believe that providing the maximum amount my body can possibly use each day is best. I take about 2000mg of a highly absorbed form where most take 400-600mg. I also take high dose vitamin c. It has nothing to do with not eating fruit and everything to do with that I couldn't possibly eat enough fruit to supply the 10000-15000mg a day that I want to take in.
Same with collagen... I could drink several cups of bone broth every day but I don't want to have to make it often enough to supply that much plus, I just don't want to drink all that broth every day. So I just add hydrolyzed collagen to my coffee every morning. I buy all of my supplements from Bulk Supplements on Amazon.0 -
Anti-supplement bigot checking in. You absolutely do not need supplements. You don't need a multivitamin. You don't need electrolytes (except for some people during adaptation). You don't even need salt. There's no need to consume organ meats for nutrients, either. If you are worried about not eating enough veggies, don't. Veggies are filler more than a nutrient source. Actually, the fiber in veggies can make the absorption of nutrients more difficult.
If you are eating real, mostly unprocessed, foods then you are getting more than enough. This means your diet shouldn't be 90% keto replacement foods (faux breads, fat bombs, almond flour based monstrosities, etc.).3 -
If you are eating real, mostly unprocessed, foods then you are getting more than enough. This means your diet shouldn't be 90% keto replacement foods (faux breads, fat bombs, almond flour based monstrosities, etc.).
**Clings to keto bread for dear life and shoves a hand of spinach down throat**1 -
@FIT_Goat It can be argued that my homemade keto bread is unprocessed and real. Since I ground my own nut/seed flours from actual nuts/seeds, and everything going into it is "1-ingredient-ingredients", eggs, oil, salt ect ect. That is, if you consider everything that requires mixing as "processed".
Now if you are talking about store bought " keto-friendly" things with goodness knows what in them, then we are on the same page.
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You don't need supplements unless you start to have symptoms indicating a deficiency somewhere, and there are usually food sources for any deficiency as well.1
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Shadowmf023 wrote: »If you are eating real, mostly unprocessed, foods then you are getting more than enough. This means your diet shouldn't be 90% keto replacement foods (faux breads, fat bombs, almond flour based monstrosities, etc.).
**Clings to keto bread for dear life and shoves a hand of spinach down throat**
I am not saying you can't have any. Just that they should not be 90% of your intake.Shadowmf023 wrote: »@FIT_Goat It can be argued that my homemade keto bread is unprocessed and real. Since I ground my own nut/seed flours from actual nuts/seeds, and everything going into it is "1-ingredient-ingredients", eggs, oil, salt ect ect. That is, if you consider everything that requires mixing as "processed".
Now if you are talking about store bought " keto-friendly" things with goodness knows what in them, then we are on the same page.
Nuts and seeds and full of antinutrients and other problem causing stuff. In small to moderate amounts, it is probably not enough to impact overall nutrient absorption. The breads are usually made with way more nuts and seeds than you would normally consume in a sitting. And, if you are eating a lot of keto "bread" made from nuts and seeds, you are consuming way more nuts and seeds than it is reasonable to assume our ancestors had access to.
Let's not even get me started on "oil" as that is certainly a plant oil, and almost all of those aren't something I consume when I can avoid them.
So, sorry, your bread would almost certainly fall under my umbrella of "fine for most people once in a while, but shouldn't be the majority of your diet."1 -
I have to agree with that. Just the fiber alone would tear up my belly for a good while.
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Fine... I'll keep my bread. Lol
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Shadowmf023 wrote: »Fine... I'll keep my bread. Lol
Lol. I'm just speaking in respect to supplements. If your primary nutrient source is from those sources, you might need to supplement. That is because they block the absorption of some nutrients or have forms that aren't very bioavailable. If they are a minor part of your diet, you should be getting plenty of nutrients through other means.0 -
Shadowmf023 wrote: »Fine... I'll keep my bread. Lol
Lol. I'm just speaking in respect to supplements. If your primary nutrient source is from those sources, you might need to supplement. That is because they block the absorption of some nutrients or have forms that aren't very bioavailable. If they are a minor part of your diet, you should be getting plenty of nutrients through other means.
What you and I consider to be minor may not be the same. For example, my breakfast might consist of keto oatmeal. (2.5 tablespoons each of dessicated coconut, chia seeds and flax meal mixed with water cinnamon and milk), the rest of my day is usually veg, cheese, meat/fish and eggs.
To me it's minor because I eat it once a day. Lol, well, some days. Like 3 times a week.0 -
Shadowmf023 wrote: »Added thought. You can also turn this thought around. "If I need so many supplements, how is this WOE good for me?"
Which is exactly what I am thinking.
[quote}
Modern agriculture has leeched so many nutrients out of our food, that they actually have to add it back in.
I'm sure cavemen needed no supplementation, because their food was different and more nutrient dense. [/quote]
Agree. But we are not able to have access to those foods, or other conditions they lived with. Food is a different quality in many respects to out ancestors..... and the life expentency is not always what I'm shooting for LOL
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Shadowmf023 wrote: »
**Clings to keto bread for dear life and shoves a hand of spinach down throat**
hahahahaha. I've tried a couple of recipies and not yet found anything particulary palatable. Share your recipie? (For occaisional use only!!)0 -
Funny that this thread popped up just as I finished researching a vitamin supplement. It was recommended in a podcast with Chris Kelly, a pro mountain biker, who has a website called Nourish Balance Thrive. Since I am NOT a scientist, NOT a nutritionist, NOT a doctor, I can't explain it here, but I am looking for anyone who is supplementing with Vitamin B-3 Nicotinamide 1000 mg. This vitamin, in this dosage, is supposed to help the body increase HDL, lower LDL and lower BG.0
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Sunny_Bunny_ wrote: »So the thing is, you don't need the supplements. But if you want to maximize your intake of them in a simple way, supplements make a lot of sense.
I take magnesium several times every day. Not because I believe I'm deficient but because I believe that providing the maximum amount my body can possibly use each day is best. I take about 2000mg of a highly absorbed form where most take 400-600mg. I also take high dose vitamin c. It has nothing to do with not eating fruit and everything to do with that I couldn't possibly eat enough fruit to supply the 10000-15000mg a day that I want to take in.
Same with collagen... I could drink several cups of bone broth every day but I don't want to have to make it often enough to supply that much plus, I just don't want to drink all that broth every day. So I just add hydrolyzed collagen to my coffee every morning. I buy all of my supplements from Bulk Supplements on Amazon.
Thanks - I know I have a history of magnesium deficiency, which is one of the reason for the trace minerals. Might be all in my mind but certainly feel like I slept better last night, and less aches and pains today.
The collagen (whilst appreciating different brands in the US) does it have sweetner? Struggling to find any without here.
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Anti-supplement bigot checking in. You absolutely do not need supplements.
I think this is probably my default position usually, but my nutrient profile on here is coming up short on most things each day so I really need to sort it out. Agree the food I eat is probably the best way to do it. But for example calcium I'm short unless my carbs are over.
But, the nagging voice in my head says its either possible via food or the wrong WOE for me. So you saying its absolutely possible gives hope!If you are worried about not eating enough veggies, don't. Veggies are filler more than a nutrient source. Actually, the fiber in veggies can make the absorption of nutrients more difficult.
If you are eating real, mostly unprocessed, foods then you are getting more than enough.
What sort of things do you consider staples for providing nutrients? Do you worry about RDAs etc or just trust in the food?
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Sunny_Bunny_ wrote: »So the thing is, you don't need the supplements. But if you want to maximize your intake of them in a simple way, supplements make a lot of sense.
I take magnesium several times every day. Not because I believe I'm deficient but because I believe that providing the maximum amount my body can possibly use each day is best. I take about 2000mg of a highly absorbed form where most take 400-600mg. I also take high dose vitamin c. It has nothing to do with not eating fruit and everything to do with that I couldn't possibly eat enough fruit to supply the 10000-15000mg a day that I want to take in.
Same with collagen... I could drink several cups of bone broth every day but I don't want to have to make it often enough to supply that much plus, I just don't want to drink all that broth every day. So I just add hydrolyzed collagen to my coffee every morning. I buy all of my supplements from Bulk Supplements on Amazon.
Thanks - I know I have a history of magnesium deficiency, which is one of the reason for the trace minerals. Might be all in my mind but certainly feel like I slept better last night, and less aches and pains today.
The collagen (whilst appreciating different brands in the US) does it have sweetner? Struggling to find any without here.
The collagen I use is just hydrolyzed collagen. Nothing else.
I don't know if it's available where you are but a search for that term in Amazon or other online source should get you just collagen. I've never heard of it being sweetened. Are you thinking of gelatin maybe? Same benefits but it's usually used to make jello so I guess it's usually sweetened. Hydrolyzed collagen is made from gelatin. I don't know exactly how but it is almost identically the same thing but doesn't gel.0 -
Sunny_Bunny_ wrote: »
The collagen I use is just hydrolyzed collagen. Nothing else.
I don't know if it's available where you are but a search for that term in Amazon or other online source should get you just collagen. I've never heard of it being sweetened. Are you thinking of gelatin maybe? Same benefits but it's usually used to make jello so I guess it's usually sweetened. Hydrolyzed collagen is made from gelatin. I don't know exactly how but it is almost identically the same thing but doesn't gel.
No it's collagen and hydrolysed. But most of the brands in coming across are flavoured - such as My Protein brand. I'm sure there are good ones out there but it's knowing what to trust if I do go down that route.
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Sunny_Bunny_ wrote: »
The collagen I use is just hydrolyzed collagen. Nothing else.
I don't know if it's available where you are but a search for that term in Amazon or other online source should get you just collagen. I've never heard of it being sweetened. Are you thinking of gelatin maybe? Same benefits but it's usually used to make jello so I guess it's usually sweetened. Hydrolyzed collagen is made from gelatin. I don't know exactly how but it is almost identically the same thing but doesn't gel.
No it's collagen and hydrolysed. But most of the brands in coming across are flavoured - such as My Protein brand. I'm sure there are good ones out there but it's knowing what to trust if I do go down that route.
It's so crazy how different these kinds of things can be. I've never seen any flavored ones. Lol1 -
Shadowmf023 wrote: »Shadowmf023 wrote: »Fine... I'll keep my bread. Lol
Lol. I'm just speaking in respect to supplements. If your primary nutrient source is from those sources, you might need to supplement. That is because they block the absorption of some nutrients or have forms that aren't very bioavailable. If they are a minor part of your diet, you should be getting plenty of nutrients through other means.
What you and I consider to be minor may not be the same. For example, my breakfast might consist of keto oatmeal. (2.5 tablespoons each of dessicated coconut, chia seeds and flax meal mixed with water cinnamon and milk), the rest of my day is usually veg, cheese, meat/fish and eggs.
To me it's minor because I eat it once a day. Lol, well, some days. Like 3 times a week.
I think that would be minor, once a day. I literally am talking like when stuff like that accounts for the majority of your calories.2 -
What sort of things do you consider staples for providing nutrients? Do you worry about RDAs etc or just trust in the food?
It is important to remember that the RDAs are guesses based on really safe margins for avoiding deficiency while eating a carb-heavy diet. The required nutrients can be expected to be vastly different when eating low carb. An easy example is vitamin C. The need for it goes way down when it isn't being used for carb processing. Iron is similar, especially since animal sources are many, many times more available to the body. So, in short, I do not know what the RDAs are for a carnivore. I trust the experience and research of those who have gone before me. And, that all says meat alone (even without organs) have an abundance of all you need.
My staples for nutrients? Fresh meat. Mostly beef l, but also lamb and chicken. I eat a fair amount of eggs (from time to time). I often go without them for months, then will have a period where I eat 8-12 a day. That is it. My doctor was/is appalled, but every lab she runs comes back right in the normal values. I don't eat plants, pretty much ever unless I fall off the wagon. I don't consider them part of my diet.
So yeah, I am way out in quack territory. But, if I can make it without vitamins on meat alone, then you veggie-munchers should easily be putting my nutrient intake to shame and thus be fine.
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Shadowmf023 wrote: »
**Clings to keto bread for dear life and shoves a hand of spinach down throat**
hahahahaha. I've tried a couple of recipies and not yet found anything particulary palatable. Share your recipie? (For occaisional use only!!)
I've recently made this one http://lowcarbyum.com/coconut-flour-psyllium-husk-bread-recipe-paleo/
It's not as strong tasting as the ones made with nutflour. It was pretty nice. I'd still like to try my hand at cloud bread some day.2 -
Shadowmf023 wrote: »Shadowmf023 wrote: »
**Clings to keto bread for dear life and shoves a hand of spinach down throat**
hahahahaha. I've tried a couple of recipies and not yet found anything particulary palatable. Share your recipie? (For occaisional use only!!)
I've recently made this one http://lowcarbyum.com/coconut-flour-psyllium-husk-bread-recipe-paleo/
It's not as strong tasting as the ones made with nutflour. It was pretty nice. I'd still like to try my hand at cloud bread some day.
@Shadowmf023 - Cloud Bread is very eggy and cream cheesey...though I desperately want to try the variation more like the original Atkins Revolution Rolls - with mayo instead of cream cheese. I just keep forgetting about it. Kind of hard to explain the flavor of the cloud bread - and you have to KILL those egg whites with super whip or your bread won't turn out well. I'm looking forward to experimenting with Soul Bread eventually (when I'm dying for a sandwich or something - usually I'm quite content without bread, but every once in a blue moon, the desire is there). @ladipoet has shared her great experiences with it!1 -
I have saved recipes for 4 different kinds of keto bread, but only tried the oopsie rolls. My oopsie rolls were flat and nasty! Mainly, I am afraid to find one that I like because soon after, I will abuse them!
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Anti-supplement bigot checking in. You absolutely do not need supplements. You don't need a multivitamin. You don't need electrolytes (except for some people during adaptation). You don't even need salt. There's no need to consume organ meats for nutrients, either. If you are worried about not eating enough veggies, don't. Veggies are filler more than a nutrient source. Actually, the fiber in veggies can make the absorption of nutrients more difficult.
If you are eating real, mostly unprocessed, foods then you are getting more than enough. This means your diet shouldn't be 90% keto replacement foods (faux breads, fat bombs, almond flour based monstrosities, etc.).
Whoa, this all sounds distinctly immoderate.....0 -
Anti-supplement bigot checking in. You absolutely do not need supplements. You don't need a multivitamin. You don't need electrolytes (except for some people during adaptation). You don't even need salt. There's no need to consume organ meats for nutrients, either. If you are worried about not eating enough veggies, don't. Veggies are filler more than a nutrient source. Actually, the fiber in veggies can make the absorption of nutrients more difficult.
If you are eating real, mostly unprocessed, foods then you are getting more than enough. This means your diet shouldn't be 90% keto replacement foods (faux breads, fat bombs, almond flour based monstrosities, etc.).
Whoa, this all sounds distinctly immoderate.....
It does, but so does a high fat diet after being raised to believe that fat is bad. Most of the stuff we "know" about nutrition is not correct. It is even worse when it comes to supplements, where we have just been lied to. Even the government health agencies, which usually get things wrong, say that supplements are not needed and should be avoided outside of any specific deficiency.
In the end, we need to ask ourselves how humanity survived the winters or even whole years without plants or supplements. They clearly aren't necessary.1 -
Anti-supplement bigot checking in. You absolutely do not need supplements. You don't need a multivitamin. You don't need electrolytes (except for some people during adaptation). You don't even need salt. There's no need to consume organ meats for nutrients, either. If you are worried about not eating enough veggies, don't. Veggies are filler more than a nutrient source. Actually, the fiber in veggies can make the absorption of nutrients more difficult.
If you are eating real, mostly unprocessed, foods then you are getting more than enough. This means your diet shouldn't be 90% keto replacement foods (faux breads, fat bombs, almond flour based monstrosities, etc.).
Whoa, this all sounds distinctly immoderate.....
It does, but so does a high fat diet after being raised to believe that fat is bad. Most of the stuff we "know" about nutrition is not correct. It is even worse when it comes to supplements, where we have just been lied to. Even the government health agencies, which usually get things wrong, say that supplements are not needed and should be avoided outside of any specific deficiency.
In the end, we need to ask ourselves how humanity survived the winters or even whole years without plants or supplements. They clearly aren't necessary.
If you believe most of what we think we know about nutrition is wrong, isn't it at least possible that the anti-plant, anti-fiber, anti-supplement doctrine does not present a complete and accurate picture of everyone's best nutritional approach?
Unlike owls, we're not strictly carnivores and are a long way from wise....
Isn't the basic question not what's not strictly "necessary", but rather what are the best alternatives in each individual's unique circumstances?
(BTW, even Loren Cordain has recommended supplements....)
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Shadowmf023 wrote: »Shadowmf023 wrote: »
**Clings to keto bread for dear life and shoves a hand of spinach down throat**
hahahahaha. I've tried a couple of recipies and not yet found anything particulary palatable. Share your recipie? (For occaisional use only!!)
I've recently made this one http://lowcarbyum.com/coconut-flour-psyllium-husk-bread-recipe-paleo/
It's not as strong tasting as the ones made with nutflour. It was pretty nice. I'd still like to try my hand at cloud bread some day.
My tip for cloud bread, bake them on a sheet pan with bacon fat. Not to much, but they soak it up and taste super savory4
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