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Should I up my magnesium?
sh512266
Posts: 60 Member
Hi there! Taking 400mg of magnesium glycinate at night and drinking 4 cups of Ketoade daily. All other symptoms from the Keto-flu-that-keeps-on-going are gone except for some fatigue and some dull headaches daily. My sodium is well over 3000mg/day. Should I try upping my Magnesium at night to 600mg? I have 200 mg capsules. Advice much appreciated!
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For me, if sodium isn't upwards of 5000 mg daily AT A MINIMUM, NO JOKE, to replace what is being dumped, I feel miserable. I would up the sodium prior to the magnesium...
What is in your ketoade? How much of each thing? I know that when I add lite salt or potassium, it makes me dump magnesium (apparently I get enough from my food, but magnesium, I had to get a chelated glycinate I take twice a day before I got good and level)...
And if you do choose to up magnesium, I would split it, rather than all at one - take one in the am, one mid day if still needed, 1-2 at night. But I would definitely start with the sodium. Often a few pickles or some pickle juice, olives/juice, or broth can set you right as rain in a few minutes.1 -
Thanks for the reply! I have 1/4 tsp of salt + 1/4 tsp of nu-salt (potassium) twice daily.
I eat a ton of pickles daily, have a lot of diet drinks which are high in sodium and heavily salt my eggs and other foods. Sometimes I get up to 4500mg of sodium per day! Should I add in another Ketoade? I take my Mg at night, it puts me right to sleep. I don't think I could take it in the am or I would be so drowsy!0 -
Honestly, I would dial BACK on the ketoade and focus on getting more salt on it's own. That is a lot of added potassium compared to the amount of sodium and magnesium. It is very difficult for most average people to get 5000 mg of sodium in daily.
You are taking in approximately 795 mg of potassium with EACH ketoade... That is a lot if you're already getting some in your foods...chicken is a great source of potassium. USDA labeling doesn't require potassium to be tracked, so many labels simply don't list it, even though it is there. Check USDA.gov and/or fatsecret.com for more accurate listings...
The diet drinks are likely also contributing to this issue. Are you drinking just plain water at all? Make sure to get a full glass or bottle of water in between each other type of liquid you drink... Otherwise, you're just going to get dehydrated, which will just make you dump even more electrolytes...
If you haven't already, please be sure to check this thread for more suggestions.
http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10358179/keto-flu-dizzy-weak-tired-headaches-cramping-muscles-electrolyte-imbalance-may-be-your-problem#latest
And please, try getting some sodium without the potassium, just to see if it helps. If it doesn't, you can always add the nu salt in later, but to me, that would be the most likely culprit I see, since if I have a ketoade (which I only add 1/8 tsp of lite salt - which is half salt, half potassium, so I'm getting 1/4 of what you are per ketoade, but I also add magnesium chloride to it...and generally when I have a ketoade, unless I'm sweating up a storm or such, I have to dial back my magnesium at night...
But the sodium, I still have to add like crazy... Just for a personal testimony.1 -
What is your reason for using the ketogenic diet? How long have you been eating in this fashion? Fatigue and headaches are signs of under eating as well as signs of an electrolyte imbalance. Every BODY is different in regards to need for supplementation and food intake for proper day to day function. Initially, I needed increased sodium (guessing the range of 2000-4000 for me) to eliminate symptoms of "keto flu". Initially, I needed magnesium (100mg daily was enough for me) to eliminate leg cramps at night. Today I no longer need supplementation of either for keto-flu symptoms or leg cramps. Start with one of the 3 (increased sodium, increased magnesium, increased food intake) and see which works for you.
I tend to agree with @KnitOrMiss regarding sodium since my experience has been increasing sodium tends to have the fastest, most noticeable effect/remedy if low sodium/electrolyte imbalance is the problem.2 -
The most important ingredient of the ketoade, other than the water, is sodium. Why? Because if sodium level is good, it will keep your body from leeching the other electrolytes and will make you retain the appropriate level of water to hydrate your body. If you don't get enough potassium, ketoade is a good place to easily sneak it in. I've found that most people, now this is based on my experience and the experiences of other low-carbers, do just fine being precise on keeping the sodium and magnesium religiously dialed in, and let them take care of potassium preservation. And like Knitormiss said, they don't always even bother reporting potassium in foods, so a little bit less in the ketoade might not be a big deal.
IMO, sodium>magnesium>potassium
So if you are still feeling tired, and you know you are eating enough and getting enough fat, raise your sodium some more. The range is 3,000 to 5,000, cuz YMMV, but a lot of folks need that 5,000 minimum.
I personally have 2 ketoades daily. I measure my salt. I just do about 8 shakes of the potassium salt (Nu-Salt). I don't log them, but my sodium count without the ketoades is between 2000 and 3000. So with, I'm guessing I'm at 5000 or more.
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KnitOrMiss wrote: »For me, if sodium isn't upwards of 5000 mg daily AT A MINIMUM, NO JOKE, to replace what is being dumped, I feel miserable. I would up the sodium prior to the magnesium...
What is in your ketoade? How much of each thing? I know that when I add lite salt or potassium, it makes me dump magnesium (apparently I get enough from my food, but magnesium, I had to get a chelated glycinate I take twice a day before I got good and level)...
And if you do choose to up magnesium, I would split it, rather than all at one - take one in the am, one mid day if still needed, 1-2 at night. But I would definitely start with the sodium. Often a few pickles or some pickle juice, olives/juice, or broth can set you right as rain in a few minutes.
This. I have to keep my sodium at around six or seven grand or I get dull, nausea inspiring headache. Sorry this is happening to you.2 -
SuperCarLori wrote: »KnitOrMiss wrote: »For me, if sodium isn't upwards of 5000 mg daily AT A MINIMUM, NO JOKE, to replace what is being dumped, I feel miserable. I would up the sodium prior to the magnesium...
What is in your ketoade? How much of each thing? I know that when I add lite salt or potassium, it makes me dump magnesium (apparently I get enough from my food, but magnesium, I had to get a chelated glycinate I take twice a day before I got good and level)...
And if you do choose to up magnesium, I would split it, rather than all at one - take one in the am, one mid day if still needed, 1-2 at night. But I would definitely start with the sodium. Often a few pickles or some pickle juice, olives/juice, or broth can set you right as rain in a few minutes.
This. I have to keep my sodium at around six or seven grand or I get dull, nausea inspiring headache. Sorry this is happening to you.
This must be what's happening to me lately. I've woken up with a dull ongoing headache each morning. I salt a lot of my foods so it's tough to gauge exactly how much I'm ingesting sometimes.1 -
SuperCarLori wrote: »KnitOrMiss wrote: »For me, if sodium isn't upwards of 5000 mg daily AT A MINIMUM, NO JOKE, to replace what is being dumped, I feel miserable. I would up the sodium prior to the magnesium...
What is in your ketoade? How much of each thing? I know that when I add lite salt or potassium, it makes me dump magnesium (apparently I get enough from my food, but magnesium, I had to get a chelated glycinate I take twice a day before I got good and level)...
And if you do choose to up magnesium, I would split it, rather than all at one - take one in the am, one mid day if still needed, 1-2 at night. But I would definitely start with the sodium. Often a few pickles or some pickle juice, olives/juice, or broth can set you right as rain in a few minutes.
This. I have to keep my sodium at around six or seven grand or I get dull, nausea inspiring headache. Sorry this is happening to you.
This must be what's happening to me lately. I've woken up with a dull ongoing headache each morning. I salt a lot of my foods so it's tough to gauge exactly how much I'm ingesting sometimes.
Yeah, a while back I was having headaches every morning, thought that five grand should be sufficient. Nope. Had to raise it. Now I go to bed with a quart jar of my famous salty *kitten* water next to me. I gulp before sleep and upon waking. If I forget, I know it!0 -
I'm kind of surprised that I have never upped my sodium and still have no issues even after switching from standard low carb to keto levels. I take a ridiculous amount of MSM for my carpal tunnel (13.5g/day), so I'm wondering if this is why since I know MSM interacts with sodium, potassium, magnesium, and selenium....maybe this is an alternative that somehow prevents the loss of these nutrients??? I haven't been able to find much in the way of anyone using MSM specifically for low carb supplementation...but it's an interesting concept, if anyone else is also keto and on MSM, I would love to hear about another individual's experience.2
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@tcunbeliever - I think @GaleHawkins and one other person, whose name is escaping me, are the only two I know who've played around with MSM...that would be frigging fantastic to find a combo nutrient-sparing supplement!0
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tcunbeliever wrote: »I'm kind of surprised that I have never upped my sodium and still have no issues even after switching from standard low carb to keto levels. I take a ridiculous amount of MSM for my carpal tunnel (13.5g/day), so I'm wondering if this is why since I know MSM interacts with sodium, potassium, magnesium, and selenium....maybe this is an alternative that somehow prevents the loss of these nutrients??? I haven't been able to find much in the way of anyone using MSM specifically for low carb supplementation...but it's an interesting concept, if anyone else is also keto and on MSM, I would love to hear about another individual's experience.
I don't add extra sodium very often either, but I can definitely feel when I need to. It is always after heavy exercise. It seems that for me, low carb alone doesn't cause a major electrolyte issue because I get enough dietary electrolytes (I also take magnesium supplements) unless I sweat more than normal. During times when I exercise and sweat a lot, then I sometimes (not always) encounter keto flu symptoms. In those cases, I usually eat high sodium foods (pickles, pickle juice, heavily processed meats, or just add salt to food) and the symptoms are resolved within an hour or so.1 -
MSM bonds with sodium, potassium, magnesium, and selenium and creates sulfate forms of these nutrients - it's possible that the sulfate forms are not as easily flushed as the original forms, or that they are absorbed by the cells in that form vs being stored in water (which is how they end up flushed in the first place).
Things that make you go hmmmm.2 -
@tcunbeliever - Out of curiosity, do you supplement Boron at all? Apparently, it's a poorly understood deficiency, nearly as prevalent as magnesium, and it has to do with strengthening cellular walls, among other things, to help prevent any accidental "bleed" of nutrients that isn't the body intentionally pulling resources to keep the blood balance.
http://www.health-science-spirit.com/borax.htm0 -
No boron specifically, my supplements are:
lots of MSM (carpal tunnel)
Thyroid Activator/Support and licorice root and nervous fatigue (hashimotos runs in my family and I'm trying to avoid becoming symptomatic)
DIM and raspberry leaf (perimenopause)
pychnogenol (anti-oxidant, purely a general preventative)
I'm not aware that any of them have high amounts of boron in them, but as several of them are plant based herbs I expect they would have some small amounts of boron in them since plants require it to grow properly. Plus I'm vegetarian, so I eat a lot of plants anyway. I will definitely have to read more about boron!!!
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tcunbeliever wrote: »MSM bonds with sodium, potassium, magnesium, and selenium and creates sulfate forms of these nutrients - it's possible that the sulfate forms are not as easily flushed as the original forms, or that they are absorbed by the cells in that form vs being stored in water (which is how they end up flushed in the first place).
Things that make you go hmmmm.
Veeeeeeeeery interesting @tcunbeliever ...thanks for posting!0
This discussion has been closed.