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Bonny132
Posts: 3,617 Member
Cheers guys for listening as I know you guys are amazing in your knowledge.
Most of you already know I am struggling to sleep,, so I am going to go for CBT, but it is 2 weeks away.
I am to stay clear of drugs (never taken them but they are becoming more and more tempting) cigarettes (I once tried one and thought I was about to die) alcohol (a depressive apparently, but some nights at 1-2am I do give in and have a shot or two of vodka to get to sleep as I am so wound up, I log it, but I would honestly prefer to just go asleep.
I already turn the TV and laptop off before I go to sleep, I read, I do dot to dot (no laughing please) and even adult colouring in. I get so tired I cannot knit.
So I go to bed, and wake up again, and the circle continues. Now this circle should (I hope) be sorted between my doctor and my councillor.
I need to sleep a few nights for the next two weeks, any advice?
I have tried eating fatty foods late
No caffeine
No TV
No phone
Get up and Iron or what ever, then once chilled and relaxed, go back to bed
I also suffer stress (TMI projectile vomiting and the rest)
The lovely lady who will sort my brain out is busy for 2 more weeks.
Any advice guys?
Most of you already know I am struggling to sleep,, so I am going to go for CBT, but it is 2 weeks away.
I am to stay clear of drugs (never taken them but they are becoming more and more tempting) cigarettes (I once tried one and thought I was about to die) alcohol (a depressive apparently, but some nights at 1-2am I do give in and have a shot or two of vodka to get to sleep as I am so wound up, I log it, but I would honestly prefer to just go asleep.
I already turn the TV and laptop off before I go to sleep, I read, I do dot to dot (no laughing please) and even adult colouring in. I get so tired I cannot knit.
So I go to bed, and wake up again, and the circle continues. Now this circle should (I hope) be sorted between my doctor and my councillor.
I need to sleep a few nights for the next two weeks, any advice?
I have tried eating fatty foods late
No caffeine
No TV
No phone
Get up and Iron or what ever, then once chilled and relaxed, go back to bed
I also suffer stress (TMI projectile vomiting and the rest)
The lovely lady who will sort my brain out is busy for 2 more weeks.
Any advice guys?
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Replies
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Have you tried diphenhydramine(Benadryl) for sleep? I take 50mg every night. Seems to help. Also, I know of those who swear by melatonin. Just a thought. I can totally empathize. I wish you well.
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Have you tried melatonin? Magnesium?
I also have an app on my phone that really helps me fall asleep when I truly can't - it's a sleep hypnosis one, it certainly helps at last shut my mind off because I just listen to her talk.1 -
Benadryl, magnesium, dot to dots, colouring in, wine, nytol, ironing, turning off the TV, white noise, eating/no food, walks, colder bedroom, knitting, classical music... you name it...0
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Valerian?1
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I started listening to self hypnosis & guided meditation clips on YouTube. With headphones since some of them use binaural beats. They helped a great deal to quiet the mind, along with getting to bed in a timely fashion, sleeping in a cool and totally dark room, and sometimes Calm Forte or a half tab (~2.5mg) melatonin.
Here are some you could try:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=kLF8MswWO0c
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=QNiR7QCfeiY
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=1vx8iUvfyCY 2 -
Valerian, magnesium, melatonin all help me sleep (not all at once though). I know it is counter intuitive but I cannot sleep if I am cooler. I must be toasty to fall asleep - sometimes I have to wear wooly sox, fleece pants, a long sleeve T shirt and even a scarf to keep my neck warm when I go to bed after I get home from patrol, since I feel chilly inside. I already sleep under a sheet, Hudson Bay Point blanket, and down substitute duvet. Perhaps you are similar. Try a warming tea, a heating pad or MagicBag and a soft snuggly PJ set and see if it helps.
Alcohol also hypers me up, it does NOT depress my system, 2 servings helps me rave for 5 or 6 hours straight without sitting down (true story - no Ecstasy required).
I do know the studies say that most people can get to sleep faster with alcohol, but they wake more often and sleep is fitful.0 -
Have you tried melatonin? Magnesium?
I also have an app on my phone that really helps me fall asleep when I truly can't - it's a sleep hypnosis one, it certainly helps at last shut my mind off because I just listen to her talk.
What is the sleep app you use? It sounds like something I would definitely try out.
At the moment any meds is off the cards, because my CBT starts in 10 days my therapist wants to ensure it is therapy and not meds that helps me sleep, so my sleep pattern and quality of sleep will serve as an indicator of how successful we are. (My Fitbit will play a part in this as it records my sleep and restlessness) and I am now 100% med free. Last 48hrs I have had 6hrs sleep total.
If I recall correctly once my CBT starts it is 8 weeks of weekly meetings with my therapist (face to face) with the aim of turning my nights back to sleepy time, and she works with my GP so reports back to him with my progress as we progress through the program. I am feeling quite positive about trying therapy to resolve my sleeping issues that has plagued me on and off for years. Ideally I would love not to rely on meds to put me to sleep. The only times I appear to sleep well these days is when cuddled up to my other half lol Take him away and my sleep is disastrous.
@40DayFit Thank you! These I have yet to try.
@RalfLott you posted some great links a few months back, that I have tried to find, with podcasts etc is there an easy way to find your posts again? I have gone through pages manually to find them, but not been successful yet.
Edited as I cannot spell!!0 -
Nature's sunshine makes an herbal blend called Nervous Fatigue - it is designed for symptoms similar to what you are describing, where the body is tired but the brain will not settle into sleep, this is what I use on restless nights. It's not a sedative and will not make you drowsy no matter how late at night you take it. It's a blend of traditional chineese medicine (TCM) herbs that feeds and calms the adrenal system because they are overstimulated, usually by stress. You might be able to get it at a local herb shop too, any place that sells TCM formulas. I get the concentrated version, it's 3x stronger than the regular, you could get the regular and take more if you prefer.
Licorice root - hands down the best single plant for feeding the adrenals, easily available at any herb shop (even the vitamin shoppe) and will also treat overstimulated adrenals HOWEVER it can cause a slight rise in blood pressure, so it is not recommended for anyone who already has high blood pressure.1 -
If avoiding meds, I assume that means no supplements, too, so...
- carb up SLIGHTLY at dinner...helps boost serotonin naturally and knock you out. Usually a 1/2/3 recommendation for daily distribution of carbs - if your limit is 30, that would be 5 at breakfast, 10 at lunch, 15 at dinner...
- all electronic devices - blue screen filter AND turn off 2 hours or more before bed - not right before bed
- get into a routine - try to do the same things at the same times each day
- I use a piece of meditation music to help me fall asleep. I don't use this music for anything else. It will also put me right back to sleep if I wake up to pee or whatever in the middle of the night.
- Use a gentle waking alarm. Sleep Time has a 30 minute window before your HARD alarm time that it will wake you up in your lightest sleep. Improves quality across the board.
- Get brightest natural light upon waking, and just after lunch to reset your natural circadian rhythms. 15-30 minutes full skin contact. Cortisol spikes naturally in the am, sun boosts it just after lunch so that it will taper and the natural sleepy hormone will start - all on a normal schedule.
- Go to sleep AS SOON as you start to get sleepy. No exceptions. If you stay up to the point of getting a second wind, that's a burst of cortisol, and your sleep quality will be total crap if you manage to fall asleep.
- Drink a gentle warm beverage before sleep, but set the room temperature as cold as you can tolerate it. Best sleep temperature is supposed to be 65-68...
- Avoid any bright lights after 8 pm or so - anything like this can spike cortisol.
- Journal or write out your worries before bed so they won't invade your sleep. You can tell yourself, I've made a note, I can take care of it tomorrow. I also keep a note app on my phone so that if something wakes me up, I can record it, and go back to sleep without worrying...
As for meds, L-Theanine, with or without Melatonin is what helps you STAY asleep. Melatonin helps you fall asleep, L-Theanine helps you stay there.
I could also get into the whole neurotransmitter thing - because if you have leaky gut or vitamin deficiencies, none of this CBT will help MUCH until this is all addressed.
Best of luck.4 -
@Bonny132 - Here are a few to get the eyelids heavy.. .
http://blog.dansplan.com/category/sleep/
(From Dan Pardi's website. He's also got a lot of great info on YouTube interviews with Rhonda Patrick & Dr. Mercola)
https://justgetflux.com (blue light filter for computers - there are also simple smartphone apps)2 -
I am so sorry you are going through this. I've struggled like this most of my life and because I know you won't judge here I'll say there were periods of time where I'd have a very strong mixed drink to fall asleep - which usually meant passing out and falling into sleep. That's how bad it's been at time for me. There isn't anything I haven't tried from scripts to OTC drugs to alcohol. From herbs to the sleep induction videos/recordings noted above. I also saw a Naturopath who said get all the electronics out of the room etc. If it's been suggested by anyone or there was a hint something would help I was all about it. I even had someone try to do hypnotic imagery with me at night - so yes, someone sat in my room with me and try to hypnotize me into sleep.
I have wonderfully sleep filled nights almost every night now without any "outside help". Below is the only thing I can think of that makes any sense for me as to why it changed.
I fully attribute it to being in a safe, secure relationship in which I know I can trust and count on my partner. When Rowdy and I met my problems with sleep went almost 100% away. Before him I had never had anyone in my life I could trust or count on the way someone should be able to do. I was in relationships in which I was either not safe or I had no partner I could count on if things got tough (that's a therapy session or 80 in itself, I know).
I believe my mind could never stop and allow sleep because I always had something to worry about and knew if I didn't worry or fix it it wouldn't get fixed. That's no longer the case for me. When something big happens that causes a bump in the road, I may still toss and turn some nights but I get more sleep in a week these days than I did in 3 months before.
I'm not suggesting you have the wrong partner but I wonder if there is some deep seated thing that's a struggle in your life, maybe subconsciously that's making it this way for you. My only suggestion is to do some reflection and see if you have something in your life that could be contributing to the sleeplessness vs. trying to mask the issue with a drug, therapy, or exercise. None of those ever helped me...ever...
I wish you so much luck with this. I can feel every bit of the pain that you have with this and I'm so sorry you are going through it.5 -
My DH and I both struggle with insomnia in different ways.
DH drinks vodka before bed in large amounts to shut off his unending racking mental harddrive. He has always struggled with this the 19 years we've been together. 3 of those were before we were married, and he lived with his parents while going to college.
Mine is "staying asleep" insomnia. Even when my dry eye isn't acting up super badly due to Sjogren's-like symptoms, I wake up over and over, even though I fall right asleep when we go to bed. Sometimes I can't fall back asleep right away, or for a long time.
Lack of sleep wears on you, I know. It's been well over a year since I've slept through the night. and I have 4 kids, so I've had many many sleep deprived nights before that as well. I do the blue light filter before bed. I take a sleep encouraging herbal blend (with theanine). It doesn't really help so far. Maybe I need to take more?
I hope some of the suggestions you've received help.1 -
@RowdysLady when with the SO I sleep like a baby, hence he struggles ti understand how I can struggle to sleep so much when he is not around. Last night I managed a whole 2hrs 23mins (got to love the FitBit)
@baconslave I can fall asleep, it is that Staying asleep I seem to struggle with, and once I start waking up, I might as well give up. Mine is "staying asleep" insomnia. Even when my dry eye isn't acting up super badly due to Sjogren's-like symptoms, I wake up over and over, even though I fall right asleep when we go to bed. Sometimes I can't fall back asleep right away, or for a long time. This is me to a T apart from the dry eye
@KnitOrMiss I already follow most of your advice, apart from the warm beverage, as any drinks before bed makes sure I do wake up to have a wee at least once. My bladder enjoys making itself known and making sure I get those extra exercise steps in.
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Having a tracker track my sleep would probably keep me awake. Do you to wear this thing to bed?0
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I know this is a low carb group.... But in addition to some of the suggestions I'll add carbs before bed are supposed to help you sleep. Edit- oh I now see @KnitOrMiss already covered this.
Might be worth tryin?
I'm doing a calculated "low" carb diet. I'm only on day 4. So far an hour of exercise earns me 50 grams of carbs. I ate 200 grams yesterday (travel) and walked 2 hours and swam 30 minutes today (off work).. and was in ketosis this afternoon.
Not sure if calcium has been mentioned and there are some teas that are okay. I think alcohol disturbes sleep- does for me, but I think I'm alcohol intolerant. You may also have your hormones checked.
Good luck!4 -
@RowdysLady when with the SO I sleep like a baby, hence he struggles ti understand how I can struggle to sleep so much when he is not around. Last night I managed a whole 2hrs 23mins (got to love the FitBit)
@baconslave I can fall asleep, it is that Staying asleep I seem to struggle with, and once I start waking up, I might as well give up. Mine is "staying asleep" insomnia. Even when my dry eye isn't acting up super badly due to Sjogren's-like symptoms, I wake up over and over, even though I fall right asleep when we go to bed. Sometimes I can't fall back asleep right away, or for a long time. This is me to a T apart from the dry eye
@KnitOrMiss I already follow most of your advice, apart from the warm beverage, as any drinks before bed makes sure I do wake up to have a wee at least once. My bladder enjoys making itself known and making sure I get those extra exercise steps in.
@Bonny132 - I have a compromised bladder myself (prolapse), so I'm far to familiar with middle of the night urination, but consider taking a salt pill or something late at night. It can help your body USE more water... I think someone said the average bladder holds 14 oz of processed fluids at a time during daylight hours and 21 oz at night... And it doesn't have to be much...maybe 2 oz?
Plus, there is scientific data out there that talks about how most strokes happen between 2-4 am, and it often has an increased risk factor because most older folks don't like to drink after 7 or 8 pm, because they don't want to have to get up to pee, but that creates a dehydration scenario at 2-4 am that happens for most people. I don't know about you, but if I can cut my risk of stroke by drinking more at bed time and getting up to pee, I will do it every single time! So I consider having enough fluids in my body to have to pee at night my stroke prevention therapy! LOL2 -
@KnitOrMiss . I knew about strokes in the wee small hours. I did not know it was linked to dehydration. Thanks for this. I don't drink much after tea time. So ..... changing habits, thank you.
I cannot add anything to the sleep discussion. I was a good sleeper until menopause. And now, it is more about my restless, snoring partner so I change beds every now and again to catch up. You all have my sympathies. I have resorted to sleep meditations at times so I do understand sleepless nights. I cannot imagine having the problem so seriously as some of you. I hope you find solutions.1 -
Hugs to all the insomniacs! I am a sleeping sleeper, not bragging because it can seriously get in the way of a normal routine. I am having to take supplements to KEEP from sleeping, get more energy during the day.0
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1. Exercise during the day?
2. Get sunlight rays on your upper chest and arms?
Both those helped me.2 -
Gaba helps me if I am having a problem.1
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JessicaLCHF wrote: »1. Exercise during the day?
2. Get sunlight rays on your upper chest and arms?
Both those helped me.
Puts on short sleeved shirt and walking shoes. Thanks for the reminder.
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Check out this episode of Keto Talk. The second question they answer is about insomnia. It mentions some things I hadn't ever heard about before and that you didn't mention above.
Might help.
http://livinlavidalowcarb.com/blog/keto-talk-episode-28-cardiomyopathy-nusi-hall-study-diet-soda-insomnia-high-blood-pressure-on-keto/264891 -
tshirtartist wrote: »Gaba helps me if I am having a problem.
Aha! Can you shed a little light on how you use GABA and how it works (such as timing, dose, side effects, etc.)?
My absolutely naive understanding is that it increases HGH, which may increase blood glucose in diabetics....
Thx!0 -
I am no authority but think it is an amino acid not a HGH. I actually only take it maybe a few times a month either when I feel crazy stressed or at night if I can't calm down to sleep. I just take a small dose. 250mg and it works in a few minutes. It's awesome!!!!
I haven't heard of it having any side effects. I have tried a few brands but really prefer enzymatic therapy.0 -
Sunny_Bunny_ wrote: »Check out this episode of Keto Talk. The second question they answer is about insomnia. It mentions some things I hadn't ever heard about before and that you didn't mention above.
Might help.
http://livinlavidalowcarb.com/blog/keto-talk-episode-28-cardiomyopathy-nusi-hall-study-diet-soda-insomnia-high-blood-pressure-on-keto/26489
I am listening to this tonight. Thank you.
As some has wondered about my sleep, from my FitBit. Good sleep is dark blue, pink is awake, light blue is restless/awake and not good quality sleep.
As you can see I have yet to master quality sleep.
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