Can I Trust "Net" Carbs?
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sas1uk
Posts: 37 Member
Hi
I don't often post, despite being committed to this WoE ( and having lost 80lbs.....can you see me blushing?!). I love this forum and just know I'll get a balanced response.....
OK, first off, I'm a fairly intelligent "girly", but I daren't believe I can include THESE in my food Plan
http://nuutrii.com/article/lidl-protein-bread-rolls-review
as the fibre cancels out the carb count!!!!
I'm trying to keep my net carbs below 25 as I've hit a bit of a plateau, so one of these rolls would be a great change!
Could someone please reassure me?
Thanks!
Sas
I don't often post, despite being committed to this WoE ( and having lost 80lbs.....can you see me blushing?!). I love this forum and just know I'll get a balanced response.....
OK, first off, I'm a fairly intelligent "girly", but I daren't believe I can include THESE in my food Plan
http://nuutrii.com/article/lidl-protein-bread-rolls-review
as the fibre cancels out the carb count!!!!
I'm trying to keep my net carbs below 25 as I've hit a bit of a plateau, so one of these rolls would be a great change!
Could someone please reassure me?
Thanks!
Sas
2
Replies
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cant reassure you , but wanted to say congrats on your amazing weight loss!!!! That is a most impressive journey! 1
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Many thanks kiwiapplepear, I just wish I'd discovered this WoE 30 years ago!!!!!
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I wouldn't subtract any fiber that doesn't come from green leafy vegetables since that's what net carbs was developed for.3
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Sunny_Bunny_ wrote: »I wouldn't subtract any fiber that doesn't come from green leafy vegetables since that's what net carbs was developed for.
That is a pretty interesting way to separate fiber from chaff.... (But what about psyllium?)
My rec (being a compulsive tester and fiber-friendly) would be to measure my blood glucose a few times before & after similar meals with & without the Delicacy and see if I can figure out what sort effect it actually has.1 -
Given this says there are more grams of fiber than of carbohydrate, I am 99.9% sure, they have already subtracted the fiber from the carb count and are listing net carbs since fiber IS a carb. And, obviously, you can't subtract 14.3 from 9.8 in the real world. That means the net carbs are 9.8, which would be pretty high if you are trying to keep below 25.
In addition to what @RalfLott said about BG, I would also add to be conscious of how your belly feels after jamming in very high doses of fiber like that. Personally, if I go over on total carbs by a large amount by having too much fiber, my belly doesn't like me much even if my net is still under my usual 20.2 -
Good call.0
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This doesn't appear to be a U.S. product. I'm pretty sure in the UK and maybe other countries the label shows net carbs so no further math should be done. That makes sense given what @cstehansen says about the fiber being more than the total carbs on the label.
Anyhow my advice regarding net carbs is basically trial and error. I think all us have slightly different reactions to things. Some people have no issues subtracting all of the fiber and sugar alcohols. Some find they can't subtract them all but are ok subtracting certain types. Others seem to react to the fiber and sugar alcohol both. So try it. If you test your glucose levels that would be telling. If not look for scale changes and differences in how you feel. Maybe you eat these and find you are hungrier for the rest of the day...in that case I wouldn't trust the net count as you are probably having an insulin reaction.2 -
Sunny_Bunny_ wrote: »I wouldn't subtract any fiber that doesn't come from green leafy vegetables since that's what net carbs was developed for.
Hi All, many thanks for your considered responses and apologies for not acknowledging them sooner, I've just returned from a funeral.
I had no idea this is what net carbs was developed for Sunny Bunny, so perhaps I need to rethink my approach!
As for them already subtracting the fibre from the carb count......hell!!! This is a minefield. Thanks for that cstehansen!
Tbh, these are a UK product and I manage almost the whole time without bread products in my diet, however, just occasionally, I'd like to think I could have a conventional sandwich, and I though this product would work here.
As you said Ralf and Anglyn, I suppose it depends on what effect it has on your "system"!!!
Thanks again for your help!
Sas 0 -
Fibre doesn't "cancel out" carbs any more than a diet coke cancels out a chocolate bar. If there is more fibre than carbs listed on the label then the fibre has already been subtracted. So it would have 9.8g carbs. If you can fit that into your macros go ahead.
Fibre + sugar = total carbs so this labelling is a bit hinky and not to be trusted.2 -
Thanks E.D.! 1 -
EbonyDahlia wrote: »Fibre doesn't "cancel out" carbs any more than a diet coke cancels out a chocolate bar.
Bwaahahahaa!
Nice.
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EbonyDahlia wrote: »Fibre doesn't "cancel out" carbs any more than a diet coke cancels out a chocolate bar.
Bwaahahahaa!
Nice.
Some people actually believe this ... which is concerning. Like if something has 10g fibre and 5g carbs it has negative 5g carbs. I saw someone post a recipe with almond flour and cream and all sorts of other ingredients claiming it had -14g carbs per serving.
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I have yet to find a food that advertises based on "net carbs" to have a carb count even remotely resembling it's claim.
As a diabetic I test every food I eat. A good example is a Quest Bar - Chocolate Brownie flavor (my wife's favorite) is advertised as '6g net carbs' but my blood glucose reacts to this particular bar EXACTLY as it would to any 20g carbohydrate snack.
I've tested several other foods with similar claims, so I simply no-longer consider anything but the total carbohydrate count when it comes to foods.6 -
albertabeefy wrote: »I have yet to find a food that advertises based on "net carbs" to have a carb count even remotely resembling it's claim.
As a diabetic I test every food I eat. [GOOD GOING!] A good example is a Quest Bar - Chocolate Brownie flavor (my wife's favorite) is advertised as '6g net carbs' but my blood glucose reacts to this particular bar EXACTLY as it would to any 20g carbohydrate snack.
I've tested several other foods with similar claims, so I simply no-longer consider anything but the total carbohydrate count when it comes to foods.
Bingo! No way you can evaluate your body as your own pet science project if you don't test obsessively!
In my own n=1 experience, plant fiber in its original form (not the stuff synthesized from corn starch, for example), doesn't have much of a glucose-elevating effect, unlike many sugar alcohols and proteins. YMMV, of course.
(My formula du jour is to add back all the sugar alcohol (except for erythritol) and 1/2 the protein that's dairy-derived. So for Chocolate Brownie Quest Bars, my back-of-the-envelope calculation would be to take the original 7 "net" carbs then add 10g for the whey and milk protein for a total of 17g effective carbs.
http://www.questnutrition.com/protein-bars/quest-low-carb-protein-bar-chocolate-brownie )
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When my daughter was being taught how to use insulin for Type 1 D, I asked the question about counting fiber. They said she needed to count every gram.
Of course, this comes from an establishment that advises eating more carbs to treat chronic low blood sugars without addressing the fact that they are caused by over medicating on insulin in the first place... so it's hard to take anything the traditional teaching offers as solid information.
They also tend to like patients to run high numbers as a safety against the dangers of going low so that again, makes me feel like if the fiber didn't count, they would rather have a person taking too little insulin than too much. But like I said, their advice is contradictory throughout all the educational literature we ever received...0 -
albertabeefy wrote: »I have yet to find a food that advertises based on "net carbs" to have a carb count even remotely resembling it's claim.
As a diabetic I test every food I eat. [GOOD GOING!] A good example is a Quest Bar - Chocolate Brownie flavor (my wife's favorite) is advertised as '6g net carbs' but my blood glucose reacts to this particular bar EXACTLY as it would to any 20g carbohydrate snack.
I've tested several other foods with similar claims, so I simply no-longer consider anything but the total carbohydrate count when it comes to foods.
Bingo! No way you can evaluate your body as your own pet science project if you don't test obsessively!
In my own n=1 experience, plant fiber in its original form (not the stuff synthesized from corn starch, for example), doesn't have much of a glucose-elevating effect, unlike many sugar alcohols and proteins. YMMV, of course.
(My formula du jour is to add back all the sugar alcohol (except for erythritol) and 1/2 the protein that's dairy-derived. So for Chocolate Brownie Quest Bars, my back-of-the-envelope calculation would be to take the original 7 "net" carbs then add 10g for the whey and milk protein for a total of 17g effective carbs.
http://www.questnutrition.com/protein-bars/quest-low-carb-protein-bar-chocolate-brownie )
I am of a similar camp to this. If there is a "low carb" product that is low carb because of sugar alcohols, I just don't eat it at all anymore. If it is because of jacking up the fiber in an artificial way, I limit it significantly and only subtract about half of that fiber. I also rarely eat these products anymore. If it is naturally occurring fiber via real whole foods like spinach or celery which are both part of my regular diet, then I subtract all the fiber. If I go over my protein, which is nearly everyday, I treat about half of my overage as if it were carbs since I have found when I go over significantly it does affect my BG. So if I know I am going to have an especially high protein day because of really wanting a certain meal, I will limit my carbs even more.
I have changed my food such that the only things I regularly eat that are not on the outside aisles of the grocery store (meat, produce, dairy - fresh foods) are nuts, seeds and frozen veggies. A couple of years ago, the bulk of my food intake was from those center aisles of processed food. To me, that seems to have made more of a difference in my BG than just looking at "net carbs" on labels.3 -
Sunny_Bunny_ wrote: »They also tend to like patients to run high numbers as a safety against the dangers of going low so that again, makes me feel like if the fiber didn't count, they would rather have a person taking too little insulin than too much. But like I said, their advice is contradictory throughout all the educational literature we ever received...
Dr. Bernstein attributes the ADA's long-standing predisposition not to treat to normal, non-diabetics BG levels to the fact that 1 bad case of hypoglycemia in 10,000 (n a diabetic who doesn't appropriately reduce meds when converting to LC) creates more liability risk that 5,000 cases of elevated BG that increases the patients' risk of CVD, Alzheimer's, cancer, etc, in the long run.4 -
Sunny_Bunny_ wrote: »They also tend to like patients to run high numbers as a safety against the dangers of going low so that again, makes me feel like if the fiber didn't count, they would rather have a person taking too little insulin than too much. But like I said, their advice is contradictory throughout all the educational literature we ever received...
Dr. Bernstein attributes the ADA's long-standing predisposition not to treat to normal, non-diabetics BG levels to the fact that 1 bad case of hypoglycemia in 10,000 (n a diabetic who doesn't appropriately reduce meds when converting to LC) creates more liability risk that 5,000 cases of elevated BG that increases the patients' risk of CVD, Alzheimer's, cancer, etc, in the long run.
Yes. And I think he's right! It's really a shame!0 -
Sunny_Bunny_ wrote: »Sunny_Bunny_ wrote: »They also tend to like patients to run high numbers as a safety against the dangers of going low so that again, makes me feel like if the fiber didn't count, they would rather have a person taking too little insulin than too much. But like I said, their advice is contradictory throughout all the educational literature we ever received...
Dr. Bernstein attributes the ADA's long-standing predisposition not to treat to normal, non-diabetics BG levels to the fact that 1 bad case of hypoglycemia in 10,000 (n a diabetic who doesn't appropriately reduce meds when converting to LC) creates more liability risk that 5,000 cases of elevated BG that increases the patients' risk of CVD, Alzheimer's, cancer, etc, in the long run.
Yes. And I think he's right! It's really a shame!
It is indeed. I don't know how you negotiated your way through the swamp of good and bad info, but somehow you scored a major success with your daughter's T1D, so you must have figured it out!2 -
U.K. Food labels already subtract the fibre so this label already shows you net carbs.
I remember the old days on Atkins forums we constantly had uk newbies subtracting sugar and fibre from their labels and coming up with all kinds of low carb bread and sweets. The Atkins book never mentioned that it's all already done for us in the UK, so it could be super confusing.
The text of the article below the ingredients list confirms that it's just under 10g carbs per roll.
Very occasionally I have a slice of livlife bread - they have tiny slices at about 3.8g carbs each. I've only had one slice in the last 3 months though (when I was ill and couldn't face meat) as I don't really feel I need bread.
It can be useful on mfp if you're adding vegetables to search for a uk supermarket brand as they'll already show net carbs.1
