I've been wondering about increased carb sensitivity.
macchiatto
Posts: 2,890 Member
So I've been LCHF for a little over a year now, keto for most of that time.
Previously it seemed like I could easily maintain at about 100-120 gm carbs per day. Now (since I've been trying to be at maintenance since March) I've done some experimenting and it seems like I tend to struggle if I go over about 80 gm carbs/day (start gaining weight, increased cravings, etc.). What is that about? Any insights? I'm a little paranoid that I've messed up my metabolism and I'll *have* to stay keto/VLC for life. I'm fine with staying low carb for life but it would be nice to have some more flexibility within that range like I did before I tried keto.
Previously it seemed like I could easily maintain at about 100-120 gm carbs per day. Now (since I've been trying to be at maintenance since March) I've done some experimenting and it seems like I tend to struggle if I go over about 80 gm carbs/day (start gaining weight, increased cravings, etc.). What is that about? Any insights? I'm a little paranoid that I've messed up my metabolism and I'll *have* to stay keto/VLC for life. I'm fine with staying low carb for life but it would be nice to have some more flexibility within that range like I did before I tried keto.
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Well, it seems like eating VLC will make you more sensitive to carbs as we knew them...
I had a hydrogen breath test that required 50g of glucose after a fast. *Kitten* if my BG didn't skyrocket to 300 within an hour.
But my diabetes doc said not to worry - you'd need several days (not weeks!) of eating moderately low carb before a glucose tolerance test would be useful.0 -
I'm experiencing the same thing. since May I was roughly at 30-40 carbs total and when I increased to 60 grams and my fbs are at average 105 when they had plummeted to 80s when I first started. Now I'm back at 20 g (4 days a week when I'm at work) and up to 40 g on the weekends when I'm with my family. Just allows for flexibility. I'm curious why this happens. Hopefully one of our wonderful diabetic gurus can shed some light on it1
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Ok so I took my mfp friends advice @SuperCarLori and just Google it! I'm glad I did so basically what i understand is that eating at keto our bodies learn to process foods differenfly using different enzymes since fat breaks down differently than carbs. So after a while our bodies expect us to eat low carb so when we eat more carbs it scrambles to break it down which may increase our blood sugar. I hope by lowering my carbs again I will see those 80s again.2
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@genmon00 I was feeling like such a *kitten* yesterday. It definitely came through, didn't it? My bad
It's true though lol1 -
Ok so I took my mfp friends advice @SuperCarLori and just Google it! I'm glad I did so basically what i understand is that eating at keto our bodies learn to process foods differenfly using different enzymes since fat breaks down differently than carbs. So after a while our bodies expect us to eat low carb so when we eat more carbs it scrambles to break it down which may increase our blood sugar. I hope by lowering my carbs again I will see those 80s again.
Ugh. I guess I could google it too.
From what you saw, is this reversible?
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Well, it seems like eating VLC will make you more sensitive to carbs as we knew them...
I had a hydrogen breath test that required 50g of glucose after a fast. *Kitten* if my BG didn't skyrocket to 300 within an hour.
But my diabetes doc said not to worry - you'd need several days (not weeks!) of eating moderately low carb before a glucose tolerance test would be useful.
Wow!
Do you know if this is reversible or am I screwed for life?0 -
macchiatto wrote: »Well, it seems like eating VLC will make you more sensitive to carbs as we knew them...
I had a hydrogen breath test that required 50g of glucose after a fast. *Kitten* if my BG didn't skyrocket to 300 within an hour.
But my diabetes doc said not to worry - you'd need several days (not weeks!) of eating moderately low carb before a glucose tolerance test would be useful.
Wow!
Do you know if this is reversible or am I screwed for life?
No, you'd be back close to "normal", whatever that imay be, in not too long.1 -
macchiatto wrote: »Well, it seems like eating VLC will make you more sensitive to carbs as we knew them...
I had a hydrogen breath test that required 50g of glucose after a fast. *Kitten* if my BG didn't skyrocket to 300 within an hour.
But my diabetes doc said not to worry - you'd need several days (not weeks!) of eating moderately low carb before a glucose tolerance test would be useful.
Wow!
Do you know if this is reversible or am I screwed for life?
No, you'd be back close to "normal", whatever that imay be, in not too long.
Oh, got it, thank you. So like a gradual increase of carbs to whatever my "normal" was?
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macchiatto wrote: »macchiatto wrote: »Well, it seems like eating VLC will make you more sensitive to carbs as we knew them...
I had a hydrogen breath test that required 50g of glucose after a fast. *Kitten* if my BG didn't skyrocket to 300 within an hour.
But my diabetes doc said not to worry - you'd need several days (not weeks!) of eating moderately low carb before a glucose tolerance test would be useful.
Wow!
Do you know if this is reversible or am I screwed for life?
No, you'd be back close to "normal", whatever that imay be, in not too long.
Oh, got it, thank you. So like a gradual increase of carbs to whatever my "normal" was?
I feel like the choice of carbs you introduce will matter a lot too.
I'd go with sweet potato and certain fruits before I'd try white potato or grains or sugar of course.5 -
Sunny_Bunny_ wrote: »
I feel like the choice of carbs you introduce will matter a lot too.
I'd go with sweet potato and certain fruits before I'd try white potato or grains or sugar of course.
Definitely. That's what I want to try.0 -
I've added sweet potatoes, some fruit, rice, and low carb wraps back into my diet, but I will rotate through them where it's only about one to two times a week. My body freaks out with inflammation and pain if wintry to have any more than that. This has seemed to work for my maintenance. I'm not gaining weight and am happy with that.4
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@karlottap that's great! Thanks for sharing.0
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Ugh. I guess I could google it too. From what you saw, is this reversible?
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Nope lol if you increase your excerise then it may help bring the fbs down but what I got that once your lchf then it's basically a "eat and see" to figure out your carb cap. I think mine maybe be 40-50 but I'm just trying this out this week0 -
Wow, that's depressing! Though since I'm getting conflicting answers here I may need to do some more research.0
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macchiatto wrote: »Wow, that's depressing! Though since I'm getting conflicting answers here I may need to do some more research.
Awww I didn't mean to get you depressed! Every one is different so who knows if it may be different for you I hope so! I'm trying my anytime absolute best to stay only on metformin to control my diabetes i think if iincreased it my dosage i could eat more carbs but i don't want too Pls follow up with what you find out about this subject inquiring minds want to know
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macchiatto wrote: »Wow, that's depressing! Though since I'm getting conflicting answers here I may need to do some more research.
Awww I didn't mean to get you depressed! Every one is different so who knows if it may be different for you I hope so! I'm trying my anytime absolute best to stay only on metformin to control my diabetes i think if increased it my dosage i could eat more carbs but i don't want too Pls follow up with what you find out about this subject inquiring minds want to know
Yep. You can be your very own 2017 science project!
@cstehansen posted this great BG testing protocol. You'll never know which end of the curve you're on without a 'sperimint.
https://chriskresser.com/how-to-prevent-diabetes-and-heart-disease-for-16/
Good news - once you've got your n=1 figured out, you can coast (for a while)!1 -
Interesting! I don't test BG but I did have prediabetes before (and my parents, both grandmothers, aunt and sister all have T2D) and my fasting blood sugars have been around 80 pretty consistently the past 2 years.1
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Hm looks like most of my results have been in the "ideal" range from that link except my A1C. It was either 5.5 or 5.6 even after I'd been eating keto for about 4 months (it was last tested in March). I wonder if it's any better now.0
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macchiatto wrote: »Interesting! I don't test BG but I did have prediabetes before (and my parents, both grandmothers, aunt and sister all have T2D) and my fasting blood sugars have been around 80 pretty consistently the past 2 years.
Sorry, I had you in the T2D camp. If you were diagnosed as prediabetic with such skimpy FBGs, though, I suspect your post-prandial levels must be high enough to offset the low FBG and elevate your HbA1c into the prediabetic range.
If you're inclined - you can get a Bayer Contour Next Meter (top ranked by Consumer Reports) for around $10, as well as soon-expiring Contour Next test strips off eBay for pretty cheap.
Testing is good because it gives you information about how you handle different foods in different quantities - and some of info will likely be pleasantly surprising! (For me, it was discovering that some well-aged cheeses, cream cheese, and live-culture yogurts are ok, even though other dairy isn't.)2 -
macchiatto wrote: »Interesting! I don't test BG but I did have prediabetes before (and my parents, both grandmothers, aunt and sister all have T2D) and my fasting blood sugars have been around 80 pretty consistently the past 2 years.
Sorry, I had you in the T2D camp. If you were diagnosed as prediabetic with such skimpy FBGs, though, I suspect your post-prandial levels must be high enough to offset the low FBG and elevate your HbA1c into the prediabetic range.
If you're inclined - you can get a Bayer Contour Next Meter (top ranked by Consumer Reports) for around $10, as well as soon-expiring Contour Next test strips off eBay for pretty cheap.
Testing is good because it gives you information about how you handle different foods in different quantities - and some of info will likely be pleasantly surprising! (For me, it was discovering that some well-aged cheeses, cream cheese, and live-culture yogurts are ok, even though other dairy isn't.)
No probs. Thanks for the info!
The prediabetes was about 4 years ago. At the time I had a 2-hr oral GTT and my fasting blood sugar was 107 and my 1-hr (I think it was the 1-hr; it was supposed to be below 140) was in the 140s. I did the Dukan Diet at the time, lost about 10% of my body weight and reversed the prediabetes. I've had good numbers since then, although my A1C isn't quite as low as I'd like.
I also had high tri's at the time of the prediabetes (250s) and got those down to 52. I have PCOS and think I have insulin resistance and with my family Hx and the previous prediabetes, I do try to be careful!0 -
Prediabetic range for A1C starts at 5.7, correct? Or is that outdated?0
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Well, it depends whom you want to believe. If it seems sensible, I tend to go with the lower thresholds (since you only live once, and, all things being equal, I'd prefer to keep my toes, eyesight, and sanity).
Here's a chart I like. The risk levels are set lower than many. (My personal HbA1c goal is 5.0 or below, which takes mild CVD into account. I'm rarely there, though):
http://www.rajeun.net/HbA1c_glucose.html2 -
I hear you. My younger sister has A1C's that are often around 12 and really struggles to keep her diabetes under control. She's only 34 and her neuropathy is already really bad. I worry about her.
She is planning to try keto now though. Really hoping it works out for her! 0 -
I need to find my blood work from March again and find out exactly what it is. If it's 'bad' even on keto I'm not sure what to do. I am definitely eager to find out what it is when I have my next annual physical this coming March though! Hopefully it will be at least in the "OK" range if not lower!0
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macchiatto wrote: »I need to find my blood work from March again and find out exactly what it is. If it's 'bad' even on keto I'm not sure what to do. I am definitely eager to find out what it is when I have my next annual physical this coming March though! Hopefully it will be at least in the "OK" range if not lower!
There was a discussion about this a long time ago too. There is info out there that suggests an A1c on keto can actually show a higher average bg simply because the red blood cells live longer than they did prior to keto. So because they are older cells, they actually just have more stuck to them and it actually becomes an inaccurate measure.
You could get a better idea of your actual average bg if you asked your doctor to set you up to wear a CGM (continuous glucose monitor) for a week. It checks bg every 15 minutes for a full week. You would be able to trust its info.1 -
macchiatto wrote: »I need to find my blood work from March again and find out exactly what it is. If it's 'bad' even on keto I'm not sure what to do. I am definitely eager to find out what it is when I have my next annual physical this coming March though! Hopefully it will be at least in the "OK" range if not lower!
If you're really concerned about your prediabetes/diabetes/insulin resistance and have the time and energy to deal with it in your current life circumstances, my humble advice would be --->
!! Don't wait for an annual physical to check your BG!!
Keep a careful food log and start testing regularly - that is, multiple times daily, not once yearly, until you know what your own healthy food choices are.
Make it your promise to yourself for a healthy 2017?2 -
Well, I wasn't concerned about my current state until this thread. I *thought* my A1C was OK and just below prediabetes range, my blood sugar levels have been good (I also had non-fasted blood work recently and blood sugar was still in the 90s, about 2 hrs after a meal) and my symptoms of hypoglycemia have totally cleared up. Like I stay low carb and try to keep my weight down so the prediabetes doesn't come back but I hadn't thought/realized I should be checking my blood sugar on a regular basis or thought my A1C was bad before that chart. Not sure what to think!
Thanks for your input, @RalfLott and @Sunny_Bunny_ ! You've both given me good food for thought and I want to do some more research now!0 -
You're probably in good shape. It may be worth checking 1-hour post-meal levels, as that tends to be more telling for many T2Ds.
Worst case scenario - you blow a little $$ on a meter and some test strips assuring yourself that you're doing fine!1 -
I've also had no real medical advice about this. When I had that oral GTT, my PCP actually said, "Your results are normal; not sure why you've been having those symptoms of hypoglycemia. Must be your MS!" He is now my ex-PCP. :tongue My diabetic sister told me the 107 was a little high so I researched myself and found out my results were in the prediabetes range.
By the time I found a new PCP and had more testing done, I had already lost the weight and my blood work was great. I have been through several PCP's in the past few years (they keep moving on me; hopefully the newest one will stick). They're all aware of my family and personal Hx and thankfully have been supportive of my WOE and said to just keep doing what I'm doing, that it seems to be working. I definitely want to research this some more though before I talk to my newest PCP again! (She had a sign in her exam room recommending low carb for weight loss, which I was glad to see!)1 -
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