Bastardized Keto ("High protein, moderate fat")
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VKetoV
Posts: 111 Member
Who here follows this form of keto (not really keto)?
Anecdotally, this high protein (1+g/lb body weight) is used for weight loss with the proposed mechanism that Atkins works simply from the satiating effect of protein intake (along with fat to slow digestion) to lead to an overall net kcal deficit.
This form of "keto" is also commonly used by athletes, weight lifters, bodybuilders, etc. as a means of being low-carbohydrate yet meeting a caloric deficit but maintaining muscle mass via hitting a minimum 1g/lb bodyweight protein per day (better body composition for "cutting").
Thoughts/opinions/debate on which is better (high fat, low-moderate protein vs. moderate fat, high protein)? I think this comes down to the individual & his/her goal(s)...
Anecdotally, this high protein (1+g/lb body weight) is used for weight loss with the proposed mechanism that Atkins works simply from the satiating effect of protein intake (along with fat to slow digestion) to lead to an overall net kcal deficit.
This form of "keto" is also commonly used by athletes, weight lifters, bodybuilders, etc. as a means of being low-carbohydrate yet meeting a caloric deficit but maintaining muscle mass via hitting a minimum 1g/lb bodyweight protein per day (better body composition for "cutting").
Thoughts/opinions/debate on which is better (high fat, low-moderate protein vs. moderate fat, high protein)? I think this comes down to the individual & his/her goal(s)...
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I think you are right. It would be an individual thing.
I follow moderate protein and high fat, and I struggle to keep my protein above low. LOL I don't love most high protein foods. They are...okay. I suppose you could say high protein is satiating for me because I couldn't stomach it. LOL
I don't think I would switch to high protein even if I enjoyed it. I started keto due to high BG levels and some insulin resistance. High protein isn't going to help me out with that. It would just lead to higher insulin and possibly higher BG. Not helpful for my health goals.
I can see people who are keto for therapeutic reasons, sticking to moderate protein and high fat.
I've also had stomach issues for a long time, probably caused by a history of undiagnosed celiac disease. I find high fat seems to work the best with that. Granted I haven't given high protein a chance- heck, I was unhappy at 25% protein LOL - but I'm sticking with high fat based on the ever so logical viewpoint of "if it ain't broke, don't fix it". 3 -
I don't track but if I had to guess based on last time I tracked, I think I would be about 100g protein which is around 1g protein per pound of lean mass from an estimate. I was lifting 3 times a week from September to just a couple weeks ago. Fell off the wagon with Christmas and New Years and then not feeling great from dental work.. and blah blah, excuse excuse...
Anyway, I know I tend to fluctuate between 60g to 120g most days. It really varies from my past logging.
I'm not insulin resistant and so i have been able to eat a bit more protein and I really attribute it to the body changes I've experienced of getting smaller while not actually losing any weight.
Recently though, I read that if you eat a bit under the protein needed for maintenance the body will first use lean mass from places like extra skin, connective tissues for GNG in supplying the minimal required glucose, rather than muscle and that does make sense to me assuming enough calories are being consumed. That's an interesting idea since many of us that have been a lot heavier at times have skin we really want to tighten up.
As far as how my fat compares... I think I was typically around 120g a day. Not sure what those percentages come to. Carbs are less than 5g.
I may go enter today's food just to see...
Well from memory which is easy since I'm usually just eating once a day lately, I'm about a 30% protein 70% fat myself. And I've not been getting more than 70g protein lately. At least this week anyway. My calories have been extra low too though. Just recently because I've not been hungry.
I'm just rambling now... I guess I'm not really trying to eat high protein or anything but I know I was averaging higher than what most calculators suggested a good majority of the time when I tracked. And I felt like that was good for me.0 -
I've been meaning to try one of Lyle McDonald's cutting protocols for a while. Might be time!1
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I eat (strive for) 140g of fat and 60g combined carb/protein so no, I don't eat high protein. I'm pretty sick of fat. I'm neither wanting to lose weight nor lift extremely heavy things just straighten out the neck and ease the bobblehead. I have great definition in my left SCM and my right Trap though.
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We are having this exact discussion here:
http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10497732/keto-question2 -
I'm actually concerned with too much protein intake, as @nvmomketo mentioned, being diabetic and all, I try to just stick to ~20 g/carbs per day, about 60 g protein, and fill the rest in with fat...although my diary as of late would have you believe otherwise, because I've been experimenting with some new recipes.1
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Clarification/quantification: some people on this form of "keto" are averaging 200+g protein per day easily. When they expend around 4,000 kcals/day this is only 20+% yet still considered "high protein"....percentages can be deceiving.0
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One concern is that a high protein intake can trigger gluconeogenesis, where the body makes glucose from the excess protein, which then takes you out of ketosis. See https://www.dietdoctor.com/low-carb-high-fat-not-protein for a nice explanation.
However, everyone is different and just because it doesn't work for one person doesn't mean it won't for another.
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My concern about increasing protein, and for most people, not keeping up fat percentages would be "satiety".....isn't the appropriate fat the reason we (HfLc) easily suppress cravings?0
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This is exactly how I lost 20 pounds in 13 weeks and have kept it off for more than 18 months now. I didn't worry about being in or out of ketosis but I lost at a continual rate without any hunger or cravings. I'm fortunate in that I'd take a hunka-beef over a cupcake any day of the week so, if anything, I have to keep my protein within a reasonable range.
I did have to give up or cut down on certain high fat items after spending six days in the hospital with acute pancreatitis. Knowing that the medical profession recommends "low fat everything" for every known ailment with the possible exception of a broken leg, I discounted the advice I got at discharge time to go "low fat" but I moderated my fat intake somewhat.2 -
140g fat and 60 combined protein, carbs=1500 calories. ~1260 daily calories in fat and ~240 calories combined protein, carbs. ~A 2:1 ratio of fat:protein,carbs in grams.
In regards to percentage of total, protein could be 20% of total calories with the gram split but it isn't. More like 15% max protein on any given day. I eat vegetables too. Since I don't have Premium MFP I work within the available 5% increments so currently have macros set to 80% fat, 5% carbs and 15% protein and usually the fat eaten is slightly over 80%. Given a case of hunger on any given day, my 1st choice is fat. Usually fat only. Think oil. To me, most cheese is not fat. Bacon is not fat. They're protein.0 -
Like you said it depends on the person.
I do 70% fat 20% protein and 10% carb...I'm thinking of switching to net carbs because soluble carbs are known to suppress hunger, but that's for another day. Without enough fat, I get grumpy and hungry...very, very hungry. It really affects my mood. I was going around grumpy and very, very hungry on my low fat diet until I found LCHF. I'll never go back.
Protein does not satiate me so much as fat does. I can over do proteins without a second thought so it is something I have to watch. I will gain weight when I over do the protein and reduce the fat. But with 70% fat, I'm not hungry and I'm happy. But it is a very slow weight loss. I'm only losing about 1/2 a pound a week. So in a year, I'm lucky to lose 26 pounds. But I'm not hungry.3 -
OK it seems you can NOT edit out mistakes after posting. So, I want to say that is suppose to be soluble fiber NOT soluble carbs, in the first line. Though fiber is listed in the carbs nutrition label in the US (but then sugar could be considered a soluble carb no?). Anyway sorry for the mistake.1
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Clarification/quantification: some people on this form of "keto" are averaging 200+g protein per day easily. When they expend around 4,000 kcals/day this is only 20+% yet still considered "high protein"....percentages can be deceiving.
Raally good point. My 70g of protein is only a 15-20% goal based on if I am in maintenance of trying to lose. My maintenance is about 2000kcal - half of yours.... That would be fun but harder on the food bill. 0 -
@cedarsidefarm
A post can be edited, there is, however, a time limit to make the changes.0 -
Also @cedarsidefarm, if you're within the hour time frame to edit and using the app versus website: when you tap the "gear" to edit, a little bar comes up on the bottom of the screen ( reads edit within) and you have to tap that bar to begin editing. You'll see the cursor move to the end of the post you're wanting to edit.
ETA: correction. Once you tap the edit bar you then have to tap wherever you want to edit within the post.1 -
My concern about increasing protein, and for most people, not keeping up fat percentages would be "satiety".....isn't the appropriate fat the reason we (HfLc) easily suppress cravings?
The satiety of LCHF could be caused by a few things: some think it is the fat. others the presence of ketones, and some believe it is the absence of a lot of carbs and/or low levels of insulin... And then there is ghrelin and other hormones. You know, sometimes I wish I'd taken more biochem.5 -
My concern about increasing protein, and for most people, not keeping up fat percentages would be "satiety".....isn't the appropriate fat the reason we (HfLc) easily suppress cravings?
The satiety of LCHF could be caused by a few things: some think it is the fat. others the presence of ketones, and some believe it is the absence of a lot of carbs and/or low levels of insulin... And then there is ghrelin and other hormones. You know, sometimes I wish I'd taken more biochem.
I want to add to that
It could also be that you're body becomes able to access stored fat efficiently therefore doesn't require you eat because it has food on board.2 -
I've been meaning to try one of Lyle McDonald's cutting protocols for a while. Might be time!
They work famously. Just make sure you hit your protein on point, supplement EFAs, and keep extra activity to a minimum, outside of a high-intensity lifting protocol. I neglected to do that last part on my last run. I shed fat fast as hell, but ended up having to jump ship halfway through, because my body was crashing.
Lifting four times per week with near-max poundages, and walking ten miles per day with a 40 lbs. weight vest, on 1250 kcals of near 95% protein will do that, apparently.1 -
Gallowmere1984 wrote: »I've been meaning to try one of Lyle McDonald's cutting protocols for a while. Might be time!
They work famously. Just make sure you hit your protein on point, supplement EFAs, and keep extra activity to a minimum, outside of a high-intensity lifting protocol. I neglected to do that last part on my last run. I shed fat fast as hell, but ended up having to jump ship halfway through, because my body was crashing.
Lifting four times per week with near-max poundages, and walking ten miles per day with a 40 lbs. weight vest, on 1250 kcals of near 95% protein will do that, apparently.
I'm not lifting at the moment -- broke my arm in October, had to get surgery with a plate installed, so I'm still on light duty. Figured it might be a good time to cut since I'm not burning many calories anyway. But I have read that cutting can hinder healing, so maybe I should wait a while longer.0
