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Weight Gain on Keto

ABeautifulDistraction
ABeautifulDistraction Posts: 348 Member
edited November 14 in Social Groups
Hi, all. I am new to the group and to Keto. I've been on the keto plan for going on two weeks. I use ketone strips twice daily, and have been in moderate ketosis for 5 days now. Before I started I had read a lot about losing inches before pounds, and that some people can work the program for 3-4 weeks before the weight starts coming off. I was mentally prepared for that. I was not prepared for a 5 pound weight gain. Has anyone else experienced a gain before they began to lose?
I have kept my food simple- organic virgin coconut oil, Kerry Gold butter, beef, pork, chicken, avocados, green peppers, anaheim peppers, eggs, bulletproof coffee, stinging nettle tea, organic apple cider vinegar with the mother, Garden of Life Perfect Food Super Greens, garlic powder, black pepper, sea salt, corainder, cumin, dill, rosemary. I did have a double quarter pounder with cheese from McDonald's on Sunday, ordered plain without the bun (so it was just the two patties and 1 slice of cheese, no ketchup or mustard). I couldn't finish it so I gave about a third of it to my husband and I had bottled water with it.
I'm editing to add that this diet was suggested by my doctor. I have Systemic Scleorderma with multiple co-morbidities including Rayanud's and Hashimoto's, which has compromised both my digestive system and my kidneys. I take ox bile and digestive enzymes with my meals. I have seizures, and the seizures and kidney function on top my my need to lose over 100 pounds is why my doctor suggested this food plan. I followed AIP prior to this and had an initial 60 pound weight loss, but in the last year I have gained it all back plus an addition 45 pounds.
I could use some keto friends, so feel free to add me!

Replies

  • 2t9nty
    2t9nty Posts: 1,628 Member
    I have been following a LCHF diet since late October in an attempt to control blood glucose levels. I am eating 20 - 50 net carbs a day and mostly end up around 30. I log everything and while I don't weigh everything, I am really close and don't think I am cheating there. In that three months I think I have only gone over the calories MFP gives me to lose a pound a week on three occasions. Those were not "fall off the wagon moments but were just a little over.

    I lost 6 pounds since starting the LCHF and recorded the last pound lost 12/16. Before a doctor's appointment yesterday, I checked and was at exactly the same place. Dr.'s scales said I had lost 6 pounds, and he was happy.

    Now - why on earth an I in this holding pattern? Who knows? The glucose levels are responding, and I am grateful for that. I am happy with the diet and it is sustainable for me I think. I am not any kind of expert in any of this. I just want to control the glucose levels and eventually lose some weight that I can keep off.

    It may be that the weight loss will come or be slower than you intended. How have the seizures and kidney function responded to the diet? It would be nice if you could see some gains there.
  • cimarrona27
    cimarrona27 Posts: 97 Member
    ABeautifulDistraction wrote: »
    I measure all my food, and yes my calories are restricted. I haven't been weighing my food. I have a scale, just always forget. I have a strict meds schedule, paced out every 3 hours, so even though I know weighing is better than measuring some part of me is probably resisting the added "hassel". Time to make that happen.
    THANK YOU ALL for the wonderful comments and info!!!

    This is advice I should follow, but here goes...

    Pre weigh your foods to make it easier. I for example, like to treat myself to sunflower seeds- 30 grams. I should put them into 30 gram portions in little bags to make it a quick grab and go. I dont, and then I "guesstimate" when I'm in a hurry- which we all know is a slippery slope.

    And I wanted to add: You got this!! Be patient and kind to yourself.
  • cstehansen
    cstehansen Posts: 1,984 Member
    kpk54 wrote: »
    cstehansen wrote: »

    From there, only eat enough fat to not be hungry. Your macros will work out from your body taking from fat storage.

    For a person with epilepsy? Are you sure about this? For a person with epilepsy who's physician suggested a ketogenic diet for Epilepsy (kidney disorder and weight).

    The OP may not be on a specifically prescribed 4:1, 3:1, 2:1, Low Glycemic or MCT Oil Diet Oil diet for Epilepsy but I'm not so sure the "only eat enough fat to not be hungry " is solid advice for all.

    I dunno but I don't think so.

    I missed the epilepsy part. There was a lot there. If weight loss is a goal, there does need to be some deficit. Being in ketosis does not require fat to be consumed if there is fat in your body. This is probably a question for the doctor recommending this diet to see how large to make the deficit/how fast or slow the weight loss should optimally be.

    To obtain the benefits of ketosis from the disease aspect, but still lose weight, it would seem being especially strict on the carb/protein combo would be more important than for weight loss alone.

    There are recent studies suggesting that the body re-uses protein that is broken down and the minimum required may be less than we have long thought. Given the successes of Jason Fung with his long term fasting, this may prove true. I have not seen enough research to be fully convinced, but it may make sense to look at that 0.8 g / kg of lean mass as more of a hard number in this case and not just a minimum - meaning don't go over it either (or at least not by much).
  • canadjineh
    canadjineh Posts: 5,396 Member
    As the others have said, @ABeautifulDistraction, the main thing to focus on right now is the healing/lessening of symptoms... better thyroid panels, better digestion, better kidney function, fewer or smaller seizures. I would see that as the main focus of your ketogenic diet - any weight loss would be a bonus (although I am pretty certain that it will happen, given time).
    ABeautifulDistraction wrote: »
    I am both carb and calorie restricted, and MFP does not always like my calorie count. My target carbs are only 10 grams/day. I am not starving myself - I've been really surprised how hungry I am NOT with this WOE.
    I am surprised by how good I feel. I've only had 2 headaches so far.
    I will weigh myself Sunday to see if there has been any weight loss. I can say I seem to have lost some inches. Nothing spectacular, but my waistbands don't seem as tight.

    You are already seeing good effects! Keep it up!

  • DietPrada
    DietPrada Posts: 1,171 Member
    cstehansen wrote: »
    minimum level of protein needed (generally 0.8 g per kg of lean body mass each day).
    for me this would be 45g protein a day for a 5'10 42yo female. IMO that's way too low. Even at the stated upper limit of 1.2g per lean kg it would only be 68g of protein. This doesn't seem even close to enough to me.

  • Sunny_Bunny_
    Sunny_Bunny_ Posts: 7,140 Member
    EbonyDahlia wrote: »
    cstehansen wrote: »
    minimum level of protein needed (generally 0.8 g per kg of lean body mass each day).
    for me this would be 45g protein a day for a 5'10 42yo female. IMO that's way too low. Even at the stated upper limit of 1.2g per lean kg it would only be 68g of protein. This doesn't seem even close to enough to me.

    I agree. I've actually heard it as anywhere from .5 to 1.5g per pound of ideal body weight. Of course this is pounds and is a wide range, but the idea is that needs based on activity and protein tolerance due to hyperinsulinemia will vary widely from person to person as well. So, the middle ground is considered .8g to 1g per pound of ideal body weight. For me, at 1g would be around 120g, which is on the high end of my typical intake.
    I know there are many sources out there with different ways and suggestions on how to determine the right amount, but not going too low is quite important.
  • canadjineh
    canadjineh Posts: 5,396 Member
    It's per lb not per kg. Kind of a mixed message as the protein measure is in grams, but the body weight measure is in lbs. That might make more sense now.
  • kpk54
    kpk54 Posts: 4,474 Member
    edited January 2017
    .36 grams of protein per pound of body weight for an average and sedentary person OR
    .8 grams of protein per kilogram of body weight for an average and sedentary person.

    My understanding is these are minimum amounts which may not be optimal amounts depending on level of activity and other factors.

    ETA: note these are per pound of total body weight not per pound of lean body mass.
  • cstehansen
    cstehansen Posts: 1,984 Member
    EbonyDahlia wrote: »
    cstehansen wrote: »
    minimum level of protein needed (generally 0.8 g per kg of lean body mass each day).
    for me this would be 45g protein a day for a 5'10 42yo female. IMO that's way too low. Even at the stated upper limit of 1.2g per lean kg it would only be 68g of protein. This doesn't seem even close to enough to me.

    Those are the numbers for a completely sedentary person. It is what is NEEDED by your body and not a cap on what your body can use. The more active you are, the more you would likely need. However, "need" and "can use" are different.

    I think a lot of people pushed higher protein because there are only 3 macronutrients and they were afraid of fat. Maybe they were on board that 70% carb diet wasn't such a good idea, so the other calories had to come from somewhere.

    That said, there is a cap for how much protein someone can utilize. The bad part is it is not the same for everyone. Highly IR people are much more likely to convert any excess to glucose. I have been doing my own n=1 experiments and have been having upwards of 250 g of protein a day (this is out of 3300 calories, so still only about 30% of my calories) without any BG spikes. I am more active than most and recently found out I am more insulin sensitive than average, so YMMV.

    I know @GaleHawkins and others find going much over these minimums do cause BG spikes.

    The best advice, IMHO, is to do some experimentation keeping in mind that BG spike = insulin spike which = your body trying to store fat and not release it.
  • kpk54
    kpk54 Posts: 4,474 Member
    @EbonyDahlia

    I recall in a previous post you indicated you were just under 200 pounds or converted, just under ~90kg? Regardless, using a 200 lb body weight (~90kg body weight):

    200 pounds x .36 = 72 grams of protein
    90kg x .8 = 72 grams of protein

    Perhaps the source of confusion is that it was stated above by another poster somewhere that the .8/kg of body weight number applies to lean mass. My research shows the .8/kg applies to (Total) body weight, not lean mass. Keep in mind what I indicated above (in my other post): the calculation provides a minimum so some/many individuals might be better served at a protein amount higher than the minimum.

    I've never been "formally evaluated" (don't even know the proper term) for lean body mass but I do know the number on my body scale, which I believe to be reasonably accurate. My weight is usually 140 pounds. 140 (total) pounds x .36 = 50 grams of protein for me. Converted to kg my body weight is ~64kg. 64 x .8 = 51 grams of protein.

    Again, if you are using pounds, multiply total body weight (in pounds) by .36.
    If you are using kg, multiply total body weight (in kg) by .8.

    I think you will agree the 70 grams of protein (as a minimum) is sufficient for a person about 200 pounds. Gender, height, age may be relevant variables to adjust (as well as activity level). The formula is based on total body weight.
  • DietPrada
    DietPrada Posts: 1,171 Member
    kpk54 wrote: »
    @EbonyDahlia

    I recall in a previous post you indicated you were just under 200 pounds or converted, just under ~90kg? Regardless, using a 200 lb body weight (~90kg body weight):

    200 pounds x .36 = 72 grams of protein
    90kg x .8 = 72 grams of protein

    Perhaps the source of confusion is that it was stated above by another poster somewhere that the .8/kg of body weight number applies to lean mass. My research shows the .8/kg applies to (Total) body weight, not lean mass. Keep in mind what I indicated above (in my other post): the calculation provides a minimum so some/many individuals might be better served at a protein amount higher than the minimum.

    I've never been "formally evaluated" (don't even know the proper term) for lean body mass but I do know the number on my body scale, which I believe to be reasonably accurate. My weight is usually 140 pounds. 140 (total) pounds x .36 = 50 grams of protein for me. Converted to kg my body weight is ~64kg. 64 x .8 = 51 grams of protein.

    Again, if you are using pounds, multiply total body weight (in pounds) by .36.
    If you are using kg, multiply total body weight (in kg) by .8.

    I think you will agree the 70 grams of protein (as a minimum) is sufficient for a person about 200 pounds. Gender, height, age may be relevant variables to adjust (as well as activity level). The formula is based on total body weight.
    kpk54 wrote: »
    @EbonyDahlia

    I recall in a previous post you indicated you were just under 200 pounds or converted, just under ~90kg? Regardless, using a 200 lb body weight (~90kg body weight):

    200 pounds x .36 = 72 grams of protein
    90kg x .8 = 72 grams of protein

    Perhaps the source of confusion is that it was stated above by another poster somewhere that the .8/kg of body weight number applies to lean mass. My research shows the .8/kg applies to (Total) body weight, not lean mass. Keep in mind what I indicated above (in my other post): the calculation provides a minimum so some/many individuals might be better served at a protein amount higher than the minimum.

    I've never been "formally evaluated" (don't even know the proper term) for lean body mass but I do know the number on my body scale, which I believe to be reasonably accurate. My weight is usually 140 pounds. 140 (total) pounds x .36 = 50 grams of protein for me. Converted to kg my body weight is ~64kg. 64 x .8 = 51 grams of protein.

    Again, if you are using pounds, multiply total body weight (in pounds) by .36.
    If you are using kg, multiply total body weight (in kg) by .8.

    I think you will agree the 70 grams of protein (as a minimum) is sufficient for a person about 200 pounds. Gender, height, age may be relevant variables to adjust (as well as activity level). The formula is based on total body weight.

    Correct, the poster said "per lean kg of bodyweight". Not total bodyweight. I was pointing out the quoted numbers were way too low and possibly incorrect. I generally eat 75 to 90g protein.
  • BeckyTibbits
    BeckyTibbits Posts: 1 Member
    cstehansen wrote: »
    First I would like to echo that the other health aspects are more important than weight. There are studies out the ying yang showing the other health issues (lowering BG, reduced seizures, etc.) frequently occur before and independent of weight loss.

    That said, the most common mistake I have read in the various threads from people trying to lose weight is they are adding fat to hit a certain macro. If you want to lose weight, then you want to burn some of the fat you already have stored in your body. Focus on 1) keeping your carbs at or below the cap you have set (generally 20 g a day for keto) and 2) hit your minimum level of protein needed (generally 0.8 g per kg of lean body mass each day).

    If you are insulin resistant, be sure to not go too high on protein. I think a safe cap from what I have seen is around 1.2 g per kg of lean body mass.

    If you are not familiar with conversions, that would be protein of between 0.37 grams and 0.55 grams per lb of lean body mass. Note this is LEAN body mass and not total. Here is a link to a calculator that should help you with figuring out an approximation of your lean body mass.

    http://www.calculator.net/lean-body-mass-calculator.html?ctype=standard&cage=46&csex=m&cheightfeet=6&cheightinch=1&cpound=185&cheightmeter=180&ckg=60&x=60&y=9

    From there, only eat enough fat to not be hungry. Your macros will work out from your body taking from fat storage. Some days you will likely find you eat well under your calorie target because you are just not hungry. Other days you may go over a bit. Tracking is good to make sure you are not consistently going over, but don't sweat doing it here and there.

    As to when these "not hungry" days will happen, it seems to really vary. I frequently hear people talking about how it happened right away. Others talk about it happening after a few weeks.

    For me, hunger dropped a little at first. From there, it seems like it is really random. I am in maintenance now, but did overeat just because of social settings a bit over the holidays. I wasn't hungry - I just ate more. It is like my body knew it and the last several days I have eaten well below (600-1000 calories below) what I normally would just because I am not hungry. I think my body has fully adapted to my new "normal" weight and is actually trying to get those extra lbs off again - and half of it is gone since last week.

    OMG this is the first time I've seen that I should base my macros off my LEAN body mass! This is going to shift things drastically! :open_mouth:
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