A shock ...

DietPrada

A little background. I'm 42yo female. 5'10". Currently 90.5kg.

Last year I had surgery, and stopped tracking for a bit while I was recovering. I gained weight at the rate of pretty much a KG a week - and I wasn't eating anything crazy. By July I got things back on track and started back filling in my diary every day. Weighing and recording EVERYTHING. Eating under calories and within macros about 99% of the time (I would have had maybe one meal per month or 6 weeks where I ate out but only keto foods - probably over calories a bit though). I don't eat much dairy. I'm familiar with the "reason's you're not losing weight on keto" - I've done all the reading, I'm great with maths, I'm in the "experienced" category I think after 4 years of this. I've gradually reduced my daily intake from the 1700 calories recommended by the keto calculator to about 1400. My fitness tracker and other calculators tell me my TDEE is about 2200 when I don't do much exercise, so I'm at a considerable deficit.

I do a bit of exercise (ride my horse, go for a walk at lunch time) and I don't eat back the exercise calories my fitness tracker gives me. I ate a little extra over Xmas but only gained a small amount. My health is good, my blood work is fine, there is no inflammation or hormonal issues.

Imagine my shock when I saw this today. 6 months. NO progress. At all. I was actually gutted when I saw it there on the screen.

canadjineh

I am hoping that is kilos and not lbs!! You had been trending up though for three months and only trending down lately for 1.5ish.... hang in there for another 1.5 to see the real results. You will get there! I seem to remember you have other confounding health issues that work against weight loss, no??
Do not give up hope!
You may be a 'snail' but you will be slimmer in the near future, I can see it!

DietPrada

Yeah it's KG. Yeah I gained weight on 1400 to 1600 cals a day. No I don't have any health issues.

I thought some of it might be bloating and still things settling down from the surgery (I had my tubes tied and an ablation). But still - that was 8 months ago.

ceilthegreat

It seems to me that whatever you are doing is working great, for maintaining your current weight. Up your exercise. Get in a couple really good workouts per week to start, and gradually increase the intensity and frequency.
Yes, losing weight is about calorie intake but I don't think you should drop your calories any lower than what they are. Just try to get in longer walks, maybe hold some light weights as you walk, or jump on a bike to change things up.
If you're not losing weight with what your doing now, then your body will be quite happy to keep on going just as it is until something changes.

solska

I would try upping the fat and lowering protein -- even if that means you will eat more calories. I didn't lose "eating keto" until I started eating more fat and moderate protein.

DietPrada

To be honest, I don't want to be more active than I am now. I am at a comfortable level with my fitness and daily activity - if I start consciously working out I will resent it and I will not stick to it. I am just not a gym junkie kinda girl. I ride my horse, I walk at lunch, I do normal every day activities, I don't feel I (or anyone else for that matter) need more than that. Fine if you want to but not necessary for good health or weightloss.

I really can't accept that 1400 to 1600 calories a day of LOW CARB is maintenance calories for someone 5'10" and 90kg. I just can't. At 1400 I'm actually starting to get quite hungry, a lot. If I'm hungry a lot I am going to struggle to stick to it, especially when the payoff isn't there.

For me low carb is for life, for health reasons, but calorie restriction is for weight loss reasons.

SuperCarLori

Do you measure, Ebony? Do your clothes fit the same?

Sunny_Bunny_

EbonyDahlia wrote: »

To be honest, I don't want to be more active than I am now. I am at a comfortable level with my fitness and daily activity - if I start consciously working out I will resent it and I will not stick to it. I am just not a gym junkie kinda girl. I ride my horse, I walk at lunch, I do normal every day activities, I don't feel I (or anyone else for that matter) need more than that. Fine if you want to but not necessary for good health or weightloss.

I really can't accept that 1400 to 1600 calories a day of LOW CARB is maintenance calories for someone 5'10" and 90kg. I just can't. At 1400 I'm actually starting to get quite hungry, a lot. If I'm hungry a lot I am going to struggle to stick to it, especially when the payoff isn't there.

For me low carb is for life, for health reasons, but calorie restriction is for weight loss reasons.

Did you see that Amy Berger blog I linked a while back talking about not losing body fat even when doing everything right?
She first gives all the usual, most obvious reasons why then in part 2 she goes into some less common possibilities. I don't recall exactly of course, but there are specific nutrients that make fat loss possible and she explains that some micronutrient deficiencies can prevent fat loss even if calories are low and you're eating the right diet for you.
If you didn't see it, I think I titled it something like 'not losing weight on low carb? Here's why. Not the usual suspects' ... something like that.

KnitOrMiss

EbonyDahlia wrote: »

To be honest, I don't want to be more active than I am now. I am at a comfortable level with my fitness and daily activity - if I start consciously working out I will resent it and I will not stick to it. I am just not a gym junkie kinda girl. I ride my horse, I walk at lunch, I do normal every day activities, I don't feel I (or anyone else for that matter) need more than that. Fine if you want to but not necessary for good health or weightloss.

I really can't accept that 1400 to 1600 calories a day of LOW CARB is maintenance calories for someone 5'10" and 90kg. I just can't. At 1400 I'm actually starting to get quite hungry, a lot. If I'm hungry a lot I am going to struggle to stick to it, especially when the payoff isn't there.

For me low carb is for life, for health reasons, but calorie restriction is for weight loss reasons.

@EbonyDahlia - Are you aware that most of us have an upper and a lower threshold for weight loss calories? I can lose around 1300-1400 calories, or I can lose around 1800 calories...but in that middle zone? Nothing, or I'll gain... If you haven't looked into metabolic testing to get your true calorie needs, and it's available to you, I would recommend it. The numbers might surprise you.

You also might look into calorie cycling - eating 1300 one day, 1500 the next, etc. to stay near your current average, but to shake up your metabolism. The human body's default is to want to get to stasis...where it maintains, neither losing nor gaining, etc. It likes it when we eat the same things and do the same activities. Anything to shake it up. Can you walk in the morning and ride your horse at lunch? I know it might not be possible. But anything to jolt your body into doing something different. Eat more calories at breakfast and less at dinner... Anything to switch it up on your body... The changes don't have to be major...just enough for your metabolism to wake back up and check it all out, wonder "what was that!?!?"

KnitOrMiss

This is the link @Sunny_Bunny_ was referring to: tuitnutrition.com/2015/12/why-not-losing-weight-2.html. I saved it because it resonated so strongly with my own situation.

But you've had major success on low carb in recent years, correct? Just that you've been maintaining the last year or so, right? So unless you depleted something or uncovered an underlying condition, I don't know if this will apply to you.

cstehansen

I know you are not a gym junkie, so this may not be the easiest solution, but making a change - any change - to your exercise might be helpful. I might be called a gym junkie by many. One thing that has always been successful for me is making at least some change to my workout every 6-8 weeks. It is not always a major change. Often it is just changing the lifts I do for each muscle group (i.e. replace leg press with lunges).

This week, I have just changed from doing my time on the treadmill before weights to doing it after weights.

The suggestion above about timing of activities is one that may work as well - both from a time of day as well as changing from fasted to non-fasted exercise or vice versa.

Micronutrients can also play a large part in your metabolism. You can't always assume you are getting what you need, and even if you are, you can't assume your body is properly processing it. The micronutrient testing I had done recently was an eye opener for me. Based on diet, my B vitamins should have been great. However, I was low in B-12 and borderline on all the others.

I know you are either diabetic or pre-diabetic or close to it. According to my new doctor (who is awesome) more than half of people are vitamin D deficient and among diabetics it is closer to 90% EVEN IF THEY SPEND PLENTY OF TIME IN THE SUN. For whatever reason diabetics frequently do not process vitamin D properly.

I am not an expert on which micronutrients do what. However, if you can get testing done to see if you are deficient in anything, I would recommend it.

Lastly, I will concur with the opinion above about not dropping calorie intake too low. This can have a negative impact on your metabolism long term - think "The Biggest Loser" article recently where the people were only able to maintain losses if they limited intake to 600-800 calories a day due to damaged metabolisms.

tcunbeliever

Maybe 2 weeks at maintenance calories would help? I try to cycle 2 weeks of maintenance after 6 weeks of deficit, it helps me for long term not feeling deprived, plus I seem to lose more weight in the maintenance weeks then in the deficit weeks as long as I keep maintenance to only 2 weeks, after that loss stops. I don't understand all the science behind it, but it works for me and might be worth a try.

allie2girlz

I wouldn't try to exercise more, it actually increases inflammation in your body and lowers your metabolism. I would try upping your fat intake

kpk54

Some tend to dismiss The Biggest Loser data because it is well...The Biggest Loser. I don't. Even the heavily favored (here) Dr. Jason Fung clearly states that a reduction in calories results a reduction in metabolism and personally I choose to believe it to be factual. His solution (as I recall) was to do the opposite of what one would expect to do which is "fast". Of course, I realize "intermittent fasting" is what Fung sells or what "sells Dr. Fung" books. I'm personally not in favor of IF as "a cure all" FWIW.

Have you tried zig-zagging your daily calories in a methodical fashion rather than periodically eating a bit over during a holiday/vacation/recuperation which may or may not have involved tracking? Perhaps try something like a keto version of the JUDD Diet since your desire is to stay on a keto. It might be worth a shot. 4 years is a very long time to be eating at a deficit and as someone mentioned above 1400 appears to have become your maintenance (metabolism slowdown possibility). A very low maintenance calorie amount (as you or someone mentioned) for your stats when 1400-1600 should be a deficit.

My understanding from your original post is " health is good, my blood work is fine, there is no inflammation or hormonal issues" and in a previous post you spoke of a family history of diabetes and that you WERE pre-diabetic but no longer are and not on meds. Alternating food volume may not be problematic.

swezeytba

I can't say I'm an expert by any means since I've only been on keto for 1 month, but I do know that I had set my daily calorie goal pretty low as I wasn't sure what my actual TDEE was and I thought it was better to go lower than higher. After my initial 1st week of water weight loss I stalled out and wasn't losing anymore....I decided maybe my calorie goal was too low and it wouldn't hurt as an experiment to up it by 100 calories a day to see what happened.

Incredibly enough I started losing again about 1 lb per week.

I would say fiddle around with your macro goals a bit and see what happens.

nvmomketo

I would just give it time too. You were lower before Christmas. Weighing in after the holidays to look for progress is just a cruel thing to do to yourself.

What you were doing is working. That was some nice and steady losses. A bit on the slow end, but it was a losing trend. Ignore the holidays and go back to what you were doing and I bet you'll lose steady again.

You know what to do. When you do it you lose. Just hang in there.

... and pictures and measurements... Do you do those? Even with no losses you may be shrinking. @Sunny_Bunny_ has some amazing photos that show that extremely well.

solska

Indeed, evidence shows that calories aren't always the same and that one will lose more if one eats the same amount of calories in a shorter period of time. I posted the link to the Science journal article somewhere here at one point.

kpk54 wrote: »

Some tend to dismiss The Biggest Loser data because it is well...The Biggest Loser. I don't. Even the heavily favored (here) Dr. Jason Fung clearly states that a reduction in calories results a reduction in metabolism and personally I choose to believe it to be factual. His solution (as I recall) was to do the opposite of what one would expect to do which is "fast". Of course, I realize "intermittent fasting" is what Fung sells or what "sells Dr. Fung" books. I'm personally not in favor of IF as "a cure all" FWIW.

Have you tried zig-zagging your daily calories in a methodical fashion rather than periodically eating a bit over during a holiday/vacation/recuperation which may or may not have involved tracking? Perhaps try something like a keto version of the JUDD Diet since your desire is to stay on a keto. It might be worth a shot. 4 years is a very long time to be eating at a deficit and as someone mentioned above 1400 appears to have become your maintenance (metabolism slowdown possibility). A very low maintenance calorie amount (as you or someone mentioned) for your stats when 1400-1600 should be a deficit.

My understanding from your original post is " health is good, my blood work is fine, there is no inflammation or hormonal issues" and in a previous post you spoke of a family history of diabetes and that you WERE pre-diabetic but no longer are and not on meds. Alternating food volume may not be problematic.

DietPrada

KnitOrMiss wrote: »

This is the link @Sunny_Bunny_ was referring to: tuitnutrition.com/2015/12/why-not-losing-weight-2.html. I saved it because it resonated so strongly with my own situation.

But you've had major success on low carb in recent years, correct? Just that you've been maintaining the last year or so, right? So unless you depleted something or uncovered an underlying condition, I don't know if this will apply to you.

Thank you all for your responses. I have had long periods where I've done calorie cycling, a few low days and a few higher days each week (with the average sitting at about 1400 cals) didn't make any difference. I wouldn't say I've had "major success" over the last 4 years, or rather health-wise I have (no longer prediabetic) but a 30kg loss in total is not great. About 140g per week. And I've had to fight for every gram. The scary thing is (as I found out last year when I had that surgery) I can stop tracking and still stick to low carb eating but obviously higher calorie (not really high though) and gain 1kg per week.

I do think there's something seriously wrong with my metabolism. I don't know what to do about it though. If I eat at a deficit I can keep my weight under control, maybe lose a few grams here and there, but if I "take a break" and eat a bit more I rapidly gain weight. Taking time off from low carb isn't an option (because of aforementioned family history of diabetes).

I would still like to lose a bit more weight. At 90kg I can do most things I want to do, but I'm still in a size 16 - 18 with a BMI of 29 (overweight now, not obese). My ideal weight range is apparently 57 to 76kg. At 56kg I'm pretty sure I'd be dead. But 75 to 80 would be acceptable.

Thank you for the links above, I'll have a read when I get a moment. Other than that I guess I just keep plugging away, thankful I'm not on insulin.

KnitOrMiss

Just because the average over time is less than you'd like, @EbonyDahlia - I wouldn't say it is a lack of success!! For me at my heaviest, 66 pounds or 30 kg would still have been 21% of my body weight gone! And kept off now for a while... According to nearly all medical sites/classifications I've heard of, in this age of gain gain gain, that is practically unheard of!

That being said, on your comment about calorie cycling, the way you worded it seems like you did say 1200 M, T, W, and 1600 Th, F, Sa, and then 1400 on Sunday or something. If that is the case, then I would suggestion you alternate days. For my other friends who have struggled after time or with losses coming out as slow averages, it would be like M-1200, Tu-1600, W-1200, Th-1400, F-1200, Sa-1600, Sun-1200, etc. (adjusting for hungrier days/less hungry days)... If this is what you were doing, then disregard. And as I understand it, you would need to do that for 2 weeks, then two weeks around your average calories, then 2 weeks cycling - up to 12 weeks -- or 12 weeks of JUST cycling... - before determining if it actually made a difference. It takes about that long for our bodies to have a true scale response.

Maybe it is time to focus on intentional maintenance for a little while and get some tests run to make sure that age and time haven't unveiled something you previously didn't know you were up against. Personally, I know that when my insulin levels went too low, it stunned my thyroid function - and it did this time each time I hit the deepest stages of nutritional ketosis and ketogenic adaption. I have labs showing it happening 3 separate times over 18 months. If something has flared up and affected your thyroid or your adrenals, you may have to stop focusing on weight loss for a bit and focus on restoring your baseline health.

All of this is theoretical, of course, based on my own experiences and those of folks I personally know.

That being said, I hope that article includes great information for you yourself, and that you find something actionable within it's contents. Please keep us in the loop as you continue experimenting!

tcunbeliever

If I plug in your height/weight stats and an estimated 50% body fat, then I do get about 1600 as maintenance tdee - however, that's just a guess, is it possible your body fat is that high, and if so, that would at least explain why you are maintaining on such a small intake.

I know that you don't enjoy working out, but you do enjoy riding horses - is there any chance that you could motivate yourself to workout if you were working out in such a manner that it would improve your riding? Things like weightlifting and yoga will improve your body in ways that will enhance your ability to ride, would that possibly be something you would not resent over time? If you actually saw results in the form of improved riding, would that be motivating enough to keep you wanting to workout?

You mentioned feeling like you were metabolically damaged, so if you want to tackle it from that angle then the things I would start with are estrogen dominance (given your age), thyroid issues (a struggling thyroid will not show on tests, but will still hamper metabolism), or adrenal fatigue (given the stress of long term dieting). I don't know enough about you to know which is likely, however if you do some googling you may find that one of them fits what you are dealing with and maybe even find some potential solutions.

DietPrada

KnitOrMiss wrote: »

That being said, on your comment about calorie cycling, the way you worded it seems like you did say 1200 M, T, W, and 1600 Th, F, Sa, and then 1400 on Sunday or something. If that is the case, then I would suggestion you alternate days.

I didn't word it that well but yes, I've done alternate days. I've tried this off and on over the years (for long periods each time), trying low and high days or doing every day the same to my calorie target.

DietPrada

tcunbeliever wrote: »

If I plug in your height/weight stats and an estimated 50% body fat, then I do get about 1600 as maintenance tdee - however, that's just a guess, is it possible your body fat is that high, and if so, that would at least explain why you are maintaining on such a small intake.

I would say not possible I'm even close to 50% body fat. I'd be around 30%. Based on the below, I should be able to lose easily on 1400 to 1600 cals. I will look into the other things again but I didn't get far last time with my Dr.