Part Time LC
blambo61
Posts: 4,372 Member
Lately my waking bg has been higher than I like (110-120) and got a 130+ and a 140+. I am doing a 20:4 IF diet and lately eat about 50-60g protein and don't limit carbs but don't eat much refined sugars (140 and 130 reading were after eating sugary stuff night before). I used to eat whey and would take in 100g protein/day but didn't take readings then but wonder if that drove me to higher fasting levels since I know they were lower several months ago (dont know if I was taking whey then or not). Tonight I had 10- oz of chedder cheese and 5 eggs for about 100g of protein and about 3 oz of tart cherry juice (1500 kcals, 15g carbs). BG at 91 a couple hours later (instead of 120 to 130). Will be intetesting to see what it is in the morning. If good, I will probably do this 3 times a week for weight loss. I have never tried low-carb before for weight loss or bg control.
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If bg control is your goal, cutting carbs or taking meds are pretty much your choices.2
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@blambo61 I've been T2 diabetic for 11+years and for 10 years I tried to stay at around 100 grams carbs a day, no refined starches, all healthy whole grains, and that helped me keep my blood sugar manageable "with medication" for years, until my meds got a black box warning and my insurance wouldn't cover them any longer. Fast forward 6 years, I was on an ever increasing amount of insulin and gained 60lbs on my already heavy frame.
Just over a year ago I finally made a very low carb (20-35g/day, only veggie carbs) diet work for me, with high fat and moderate protein. I went from 310 units of insulin each day in order to manage my BG to 20 units of insulin a day in one month. After 4 more months, I was off my meds all together, I now continue manage my diabetes with diet alone.
I highly encourage you to try a low carb diet to manage your diabetes, along with the moderate protein you're already doing, you're likely to see incredible results. Just be sure to increase your fat as eating this way and eating low fat too doesn't really work, but there are plenty of healthy fats to choose from.
There's lots of great info in the stickies up top to help you get started. I wish I'd known years ago that eating this way could keep my BG under control without meds, and that it could be so easy, but it's never too late to try it.... 10 years of diabetes and I was still able to turn it around.6 -
Amen, @PaleoInScotland. That pretty much mirrors my wayward journey, except I'm not off meds (yet).
I came to the VLC party 10+ years after discovering T2D. How I wish I could turn back the clock to my clueless prediabetic days!3 -
Tested this morning and was 120 (was 91 when went to bed). This was with very low carbs (15g for the day and all last night). I think I'm getting too much protein at once. I think carbs don't help either.
I've not been diagnosed with T2d (unless you have all diagnosed me!). My bg history is: 1.5 yrs ago I was 6'1" and 250+. Had several morning bg readings of 110-120. Went on 20:4 IF diet (no carb restrictions and often ate desert) and lost 40-lbs. Morning bg readings were then under 100. Started taking whey protein and didn't take bg readings. Lately took some readings and they are above 100 (110 - 120 with mod protein but no carb restrictions). I had a couple really high fasted bg readings after some sugary stuff in the night with mod protein (130+ and 140+) and now have one data point with low carb but high protein which was 120. I think I may have been dorking myself up allowing all the carbs and also taking too much protein for too short of time. I will continue getting some low carb points with less protein and with more protein to see what is going on. Thanks0 -
High protein is converted into sugar so you need to keep your protein levels under control as well. I am for 70% fat, 25% protein and 5% carbs.1
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@blambo61 have you seen Marty Kendall's posts on the insulin index?
https://optimisingnutrition.com/2015/03/26/food-insulin-index/
You might be able to tweak the types of foods your eating during your OMAD.
He's got a lot of great posts on that site, definitely worth browsing around.2 -
Have not seen that, will give it a look. Thanks0
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Just because it was higher in the morning doesn't mean it was from your protein the night before.
The natural process of the body to wake itself involves glucose secretion and a rise in cortisol. So you will always have a higher morning bg.2 -
You need to be looking for bg rise after protein during the day. Not in your morning fasting numbers. And you always need to consider for variables from any carbohydrate or fat intake with it as well as your activity and possible stress levels at the time. Not just stress like "omg I'm so stressed about bad stuff in my life" but stress like "my kid just scared me to death with a practical joke and made my heart race"...1
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Sunny_Bunny_ wrote: »You need to be looking for bg rise after protein during the day. Not in your morning fasting numbers. And you always need to consider for variables from any carbohydrate or fat intake with it as well as your activity and possible stress levels at the time. Not just stress like "omg I'm so stressed about bad stuff in my life" but stress like "my kid just scared me to death with a practical joke and made my heart race"...
I know a little about the morning bg rise. I just haven't seen it in the past (after I lost weight) and I see it now. My bg was 91 two hours after eating the 100g of protein last night so that could be good I think. During the day when I fast, it will get down in the 70s to 80s. I hope I'm not fretting about nothing but the higher readings and the 130 and 140 reading caused me concern.
How will fat effect things? Thanks for your input.0 -
Sunny_Bunny_ wrote: »You need to be looking for bg rise after protein during the day. Not in your morning fasting numbers. And you always need to consider for variables from any carbohydrate or fat intake with it as well as your activity and possible stress levels at the time. Not just stress like "omg I'm so stressed about bad stuff in my life" but stress like "my kid just scared me to death with a practical joke and made my heart race"...
I know a little about the morning bg rise. I just haven't seen it in the past (after I lost weight) and I see it now. My bg was 91 two hours after eating the 100g of protein last night so that could be good I think. During the day when I fast, it will get down in the 70s to 80s. I hope I'm not fretting about nothing but the higher readings and the 130 and 140 reading caused me concern.
How will fat effect things? Thanks for your input.
Protein will affect blood sugar much more slowly and later than glucose. You would get more info continuing the check at 3, 4 and 5 hours after eating. Without also eating anything new.
Fat slows down glucose... at least glucose from carbs... I am making an assumption that there could be a slowing effect with protein because of that. I have no idea but it would be worth noting the fat intake in your records to look for any patterns.
It is concerning to have your morning fasting bg suddenly getting higher for sure. It could certainly be the protein since it was so much in one meal but you've said you don't really limit carbs. That you're just doing IF.
The single most blood glucose affecting factor is the carbs. They hit faster and start the cycle of over producing insulin to which the liver responds by secreting glucose which signals more insulin which signals more glucose...
the hyperinsulinemia is what causes you to be more sensitive to eating a lot of protein at one time by increasing the demand for glucose in your body which raises the demand for gluconeogenesis.
with actual low carb, having your carbs come only from green veggies, fruit like avocado or berries, you would reduce the overreaction of the pancreas to overproduce insulin.
If you decide to keep high sugar fruits, you can pair them with a fat to slow down the sugar hitting the blood, but you won't get as much control over bg as if you didn't eat them at all.
Many people can reverse the hyperinsulinemia and go back to eating fruit like apples and bananas within reason, without further issues assuming you don't go back to eating SAD standard level carbs on the regular. That's just going to recreate the resistance again.1 -
Sunny_Bunny_ wrote: »Sunny_Bunny_ wrote: »You need to be looking for bg rise after protein during the day. Not in your morning fasting numbers. And you always need to consider for variables from any carbohydrate or fat intake with it as well as your activity and possible stress levels at the time. Not just stress like "omg I'm so stressed about bad stuff in my life" but stress like "my kid just scared me to death with a practical joke and made my heart race"...
I know a little about the morning bg rise. I just haven't seen it in the past (after I lost weight) and I see it now. My bg was 91 two hours after eating the 100g of protein last night so that could be good I think. During the day when I fast, it will get down in the 70s to 80s. I hope I'm not fretting about nothing but the higher readings and the 130 and 140 reading caused me concern.
How will fat effect things? Thanks for your input.
Protein will affect blood sugar much more slowly and later than glucose. You would get more info continuing the check at 3, 4 and 5 hours after eating. Without also eating anything new.
Fat slows down glucose... at least glucose from carbs... I am making an assumption that there could be a slowing effect with protein because of that. I have no idea but it would be worth noting the fat intake in your records to look for any patterns.
It is concerning to have your morning fasting bg suddenly getting higher for sure. It could certainly be the protein since it was so much in one meal but you've said you don't really limit carbs. That you're just doing IF.
The single most blood glucose affecting factor is the carbs. They hit faster and start the cycle of over producing insulin to which the liver responds by secreting glucose which signals more insulin which signals more glucose...
the hyperinsulinemia is what causes you to be more sensitive to eating a lot of protein at one time by increasing the demand for glucose in your body which raises the demand for gluconeogenesis.
with actual low carb, having your carbs come only from green veggies, fruit like avocado or berries, you would reduce the overreaction of the pancreas to overproduce insulin.
If you decide to keep high sugar fruits, you can pair them with a fat to slow down the sugar hitting the blood, but you won't get as much control over bg as if you didn't eat them at all.
Many people can reverse the hyperinsulinemia and go back to eating fruit like apples and bananas within reason, without further issues assuming you don't go back to eating SAD standard level carbs on the regular. That's just going to recreate the resistance again.
Thanks for the info. After my real high readings, I've been no refined sugar for a couple of weeks but still allowed carbs, have high readings in the morings doing that. Also had high reading this morning with low carb (15g) but high protein (100 g) also had high fat (probably about 100g also). I will log my macros. I may, if I'm diligent enough logging, try to model it all with some regression equation to see what is going on. Thanks again.0 -
Tested this morning and was 120 (was 91 when went to bed). This was with very low carbs (15g for the day and all last night). I think I'm getting too much protein at once. I think carbs don't help either.
I've not been diagnosed with T2d (unless you have all diagnosed me!). My bg history is: 1.5 yrs ago I was 6'1" and 250+. Had several morning bg readings of 110-120. Went on 20:4 IF diet (no carb restrictions and often ate desert) and lost 40-lbs. Morning bg readings were then under 100. Started taking whey protein and didn't take bg readings. Lately took some readings and they are above 100 (110 - 120 with mod protein but no carb restrictions). I had a couple really high fasted bg readings after some sugary stuff in the night with mod protein (130+ and 140+) and now have one data point with low carb but high protein which was 120. I think I may have been dorking myself up allowing all the carbs and also taking too much protein for too short of time. I will continue getting some low carb points with less protein and with more protein to see what is going on. Thanks
If your doctor had performed your 130+ and 140+ tests, you would have a diagnosis of T2 diabetes. The criteria, based on BG tests is 2 fasting readings above 126. So - based on the numbers - you have T2 diabetes.
BG is most responsive to carbohydrates - the most substantial response is within about an hour of eating. Focus on that, rather than other factors that are likely to have much less influence. (I don't know have any measurable response to protein - others have some, but it is generally far smaller than the response to carbohydrates.)
Fasting blood glucose is the last thing to come down. Everyone experiences dawn phenomenon - to some degree. It is worse for T2 diabetics. The biological point of the dawn phenomenon is that your liver is dumping glucose pre-dawn to give you enough energy to wake up. I use it to measure how tight my control is - but it would be the first test I'd dump, because it is the least critical to maintaining control.
If I were in your shoes (and didn't want a diabetes diagnosis) I'd start testing at 1 hour, 2 hours, and (if necessary) 3 hours after your first bite. If your blood glucose goes above 140 (some set the number lower), start cutting your carbs. After your blood glucose stays consistently below 140 after eating, your fasting BG should also (slowly) come down.
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Tested this morning and was 120 (was 91 when went to bed). This was with very low carbs (15g for the day and all last night). I think I'm getting too much protein at once. I think carbs don't help either.
I've not been diagnosed with T2d (unless you have all diagnosed me!). My bg history is: 1.5 yrs ago I was 6'1" and 250+. Had several morning bg readings of 110-120. Went on 20:4 IF diet (no carb restrictions and often ate desert) and lost 40-lbs. Morning bg readings were then under 100. Started taking whey protein and didn't take bg readings. Lately took some readings and they are above 100 (110 - 120 with mod protein but no carb restrictions). I had a couple really high fasted bg readings after some sugary stuff in the night with mod protein (130+ and 140+) and now have one data point with low carb but high protein which was 120. I think I may have been dorking myself up allowing all the carbs and also taking too much protein for too short of time. I will continue getting some low carb points with less protein and with more protein to see what is going on. Thanks
If your doctor had performed your 130+ and 140+ tests, you would have a diagnosis of T2 diabetes. The criteria, based on BG tests is 2 fasting readings above 126. So - based on the numbers - you have T2 diabetes.
BG is most responsive to carbohydrates - the most substantial response is within about an hour of eating. Focus on that, rather than other factors that are likely to have much less influence. (I don't know have any measurable response to protein - others have some, but it is generally far smaller than the response to carbohydrates.)
Fasting blood glucose is the last thing to come down. Everyone experiences dawn phenomenon - to some degree. It is worse for T2 diabetics. The biological point of the dawn phenomenon is that your liver is dumping glucose pre-dawn to give you enough energy to wake up. I use it to measure how tight my control is - but it would be the first test I'd dump, because it is the least critical to maintaining control.
If I were in your shoes (and didn't want a diabetes diagnosis) I'd start testing at 1 hour, 2 hours, and (if necessary) 3 hours after your first bite. If your blood glucose goes above 140 (some set the number lower), start cutting your carbs. After your blood glucose stays consistently below 140 after eating, your fasting BG should also (slowly) come down.
Thanks, I will take some measurements after eating at different intervals. I have not seen anything high after eating but right now I'm doing lower carb so I may not see it either. I may purposely do a higher carb meal and see what happens.
Tonight I was 85 before eating (fasted all day). Was 120 when woke up (without drinking water). Started eating at 5:00 PM and stopped at about 7:30. 38g carbs, 80g protein, 133g fat (1630 cals consumed and about 450 cals burned this morning in exercise). BG at 9:18 is 92. I didn't take any readings earlier which I will start doing.0 -
I have problems with FBG readings too. They were down nice and low while I was losing but they crept back up within 6 months and they still stay high.
My FBG looks bad. It will often hit 110-120, but that is my highest reading of the entire day. Including after meals. I don't eat much in the morning besides cream or coconut oil in my coffee. Why bother if BG is 120? That number falls throughout the day an is below 100 at bed, unless I have been pigging out on something.
It worries me. As far as I can tell, I am creeping towards metformin. According to my FBG I could be called a T2D if they tested me on a high morning, but I changed my diet when I was just prediabetic. Keto helps with my PP numbers but it isn't doing much for FBG.
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I have problems with FBG readings too. They were down nice and low while I was losing but they crept back up within 6 months and they still stay high.
My FBG looks bad. It will often hit 110-120, but that is my highest reading of the entire day. Including after meals. I don't eat much in the morning besides cream or coconut oil in my coffee. Why bother if BG is 120? That number falls throughout the day an is below 100 at bed, unless I have been pigging out on something.
It worries me. As far as I can tell, I am creeping towards metformin. According to my FBG I could be called a T2D if they tested me on a high morning, but I changed my diet when I was just prediabetic. Keto helps with my PP numbers but it isn't doing much for FBG.
What is PP numbers? Yea, I hope I'm not creeping in the wrong direction. I was before starting the diet but it seemed under control after I lost some weight so I didn't take any more readings for a long time. I was reading here about not using all protein and it converting to glucose if consumed a lot at one time and I got curious and took some measurements and have discovered it has crept up. This might have been going on for several months now without me knowing. Good luck to both of us.0 -
I have problems with FBG readings too. They were down nice and low while I was losing but they crept back up within 6 months and they still stay high.
My FBG looks bad. It will often hit 110-120, but that is my highest reading of the entire day. Including after meals. I don't eat much in the morning besides cream or coconut oil in my coffee. Why bother if BG is 120? That number falls throughout the day an is below 100 at bed, unless I have been pigging out on something.
It worries me. As far as I can tell, I am creeping towards metformin. According to my FBG I could be called a T2D if they tested me on a high morning, but I changed my diet when I was just prediabetic. Keto helps with my PP numbers but it isn't doing much for FBG.
What is PP numbers? Yea, I hope I'm not creeping in the wrong direction. I was before starting the diet but it seemed under control after I lost some weight so I didn't take any more readings for a long time. I was reading here about not using all protein and it converting to glucose if consumed a lot at one time and I got curious and took some measurements and have discovered it has crept up. This might have been going on for several months now without me knowing. Good luck to both of us.
Sorry. Post prandial or after meal BG. After meals I might hit a 6 (around 110) but not often. My PP numbers are good, thanks to keto. Keto just didn't solve my dawn phenomenon... Darn overactive liver.
I don't know how high protein has to be before it is too much. I go with moderate numbers of about 20% or 70-90g (usually closer to 70g). I think the high protein that affects BG is quite high. Into the 200g's for men and somewhat lower for women. 40% or more I would guess.
Edited to add that I think weight loss can really help with numbers, during the loss. Once I stopped losing was when mine started creeping bck up.1 -
Edited to add that I think weight loss can really help with numbers, during the loss. Once I stopped losing was when mine started creeping bck up.
Losing (eating at a deficit) seems to make a difference for me - not the loss itself. (My BG response is pretty much the same as it was 73 lbs ago. When my fasting BG numbers are in the unquestionably diabetic range is when I am at a significant calorie deficit.
(Since the ADA line has always been lose X% of your body weight and your diabetes will disappear, I want to distinguish between the process of loss (which does seem to help - when the calorie deficit is extreme) and the state of weighing less (which doesn't help me at all))
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Edited to add that I think weight loss can really help with numbers, during the loss. Once I stopped losing was when mine started creeping bck up.
Losing (eating at a deficit) seems to make a difference for me - not the loss itself. (My BG response is pretty much the same as it was 73 lbs ago. When my fasting BG numbers are in the unquestionably diabetic range is when I am at a significant calorie deficit.
(Since the ADA line has always been lose X% of your body weight and your diabetes will disappear, I want to distinguish between the process of loss (which does seem to help - when the calorie deficit is extreme) and the state of weighing less (which doesn't help me at all))
Interesting! Maybe when were at a deficit, the body digests quickly to get all it can and the BG spikes. My BG was 103 this morning so I'm happy about that.0 -
@blambo61 have you seen Marty Kendall's posts on the insulin index?
https://optimisingnutrition.com/2015/03/26/food-insulin-index/
You might be able to tweak the types of foods your eating during your OMAD.
He's got a lot of great posts on that site, definitely worth browsing around.
Way to mess up my plans for the day kirkor! I followed the link read a bit then downloaded his 140 page pdf. Read a bit of that then followed a link to a PhD thesis from Australia. Got back to the pdf and read a bit more before following another great link. Kept reading during lunch, bad habit. I now realize it's 2:30 PM and I haven't checked my morning emails yet. A lot of info there.2
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