Insulin resistance and fat
curvytattooedprincess
Posts: 34 Member
I've been told I'm IR and need to limit my dairy intake so how do I get enough fat in my diet without eating dairy?
Avocados are $3-4 each here so it's an occasional treat not a everyday food I can afford
Avocados are $3-4 each here so it's an occasional treat not a everyday food I can afford
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Meat1
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Pork butt, 73/27 ground beef, salmon, mackerel, herring, olive oil, avocado oil, chuck roast, rib eyes, olives, coconut, nuts, seeds, skin on chicken as a start.2
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Adding fat directly is easiest. Coconut oil, ghee, olive oil, etc.
Why no dairy? I don't think dairy restriction is a common treatment for IR. I could be wrong.
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Maybe your doctor meant milk? Milk is very high in carbs, especially skim. Real cheese, not American and other fake cheeses, are very low carb, high fat and supply calcium. Whipping cream for coffee is also a good idea.1
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Maybe your doctor meant milk? Milk is very high in carbs, especially skim. Real cheese, not American and other fake cheeses, are very low carb, high fat and supply calcium. Whipping cream for coffee is also a good idea.
Have you ever seen carbs/cup or 2 oz. given for heavy cream rather than per cubic angstrøm or nanøliter?0 -
curvytattooedprincess wrote: »I've been told I'm IR and need to limit my dairy intake so how do I get enough fat in my diet without eating dairy?
Avocados are $3-4 each here so it's an occasional treat not a everyday food I can afford
You should be able to eat cheese. It has a lot of fat and protein but very little carbs or sugars. Don't eat too much protein either since excess can be turned to glucose.
Cottage cheese and yogurt have more carbs (stuff I've looked at anyways). Cream has no carbs like already mentioned.1 -
For some of us who are insulin resistant, dairy can create an insulinogenic response, that is in this case a rise in insulin that is not proportionate to the amount of carbs in a food. This has a lot to do with whey, primarily, absent a casein sensitivity, by my understanding. However, further research I've done shows that sometimes using whey to increase insulin at the beginning of or appetizer-style before a meal can increase the insulin BEFORE the carbs arrive, which results in quicker processing of carbs within a meal leading to less blood glucose elevation that you might otherwise have, but that must be carefully managed and monitored.
That all being said, I still find it odd that we are the only species consuming the (breast)milk of another species, particularly when we know that milk is intended to increase a calf from around 500 pounds to well over 2000 pounds...and then we're surprised when that same dairy makes us gain weight... Definition of insanity, much? That being said, I'm insulin resistant, and I still consume dairy, though I do restrict or avoid it whenever I can.4 -
Thanks for all your feedback! My doctor mainly meant milk ( which I haven't had for 2 weeks anyways) but she did say too much cheese etc can also spike my insulin and just limit to one small serve a day.
How do you avoid eating too much protein when your eating eggs and meat at every meal?0 -
curvytattooedprincess wrote: »Thanks for all your feedback! My doctor mainly meant milk ( which I haven't had for 2 weeks anyways) but she did say too much cheese etc can also spike my insulin and just limit to one small serve a day.
How do you avoid eating too much protein when your eating eggs and meat at every meal?
There are multiple threads lately about protein. "Too much" can vary significantly from person to person. There are people on both extremes saying you have to keep it ridiculously low or others who say you have to have minimums that are pretty high to avoid losing lean mass.
The primary concern is typically not being able to get into or maintain ketosis if protein is too high. The fact you IR means you are more likely to have protein convert to glucose via gluconeogenesis. The more active you are, especially with strength training, the less likely this is to happen.
On the low end, your protein should be 0.8 g per kg of lean body mass. There are other groups that go as high as 2 g per lb of lean mass.
Drs. Phinney and Volek, who are likely the most well versed in keto say the number should be between 1.5 g and 2.0 grams per kg of your ideal body weight (0.68 g to 0.91 g per lb). So if you think your ideal body weight is 150 lbs, your protein intake should be between 102 and 136 g per day.
If you are not actively checking your BG and/or blood ketone level, then this is when you should start. Once you have stayed in this range for several days, you should be able to tell if you are within the tolerance range of your body. If your BG is spiking with this level or you are not getting into ketosis (assuming that is your goal), then start trying lower levels until you get the results you are looking to get.
The absolute bottom (0.8g per kg of lean mass with an ideal weight of 150 lbs and 25% bf) would be around 41 g of protein per day. Nearly all the experts will tell you that going below that will result in losing lean mass.1 -
KnitOrMiss wrote: »For some of us who are insulin resistant, dairy can create an insulinogenic response, that is in this case a rise in insulin that is not proportionate to the amount of carbs in a food. This has a lot to do with whey, primarily, absent a casein sensitivity, by my understanding. However, further research I've done shows that sometimes using whey to increase insulin at the beginning of or appetizer-style before a meal can increase the insulin BEFORE the carbs arrive, which results in quicker processing of carbs within a meal leading to less blood glucose elevation that you might otherwise have, but that must be carefully managed and monitored.
That all being said, I still find it odd that we are the only species consuming the (breast)milk of another species, particularly when we know that milk is intended to increase a calf from around 500 pounds to well over 2000 pounds...and then we're surprised when that same dairy makes us gain weight... Definition of insanity, much? That being said, I'm insulin resistant, and I still consume dairy, though I do restrict or avoid it whenever I can.
What about cheese? Very low carb but could cause too much protein if consume too much.0 -
curvytattooedprincess wrote: »Thanks for all your feedback! My doctor mainly meant milk ( which I haven't had for 2 weeks anyways) but she did say too much cheese etc can also spike my insulin and just limit to one small serve a day.
How do you avoid eating too much protein when your eating eggs and meat at every meal?
If you aren't choosing lean cuts, too much protein (whatever level you decide it is) should not be a problem. The fats will help fill you. If you are relying on protein to fill yourself, you may end up with a higher protein macro.KnitOrMiss wrote: »...That all being said, I still find it odd that we are the only species consuming the (breast)milk of another species, particularly when we know that milk is intended to increase a calf from around 500 pounds to well over 2000 pounds...and then we're surprised when that same dairy makes us gain weight... Definition of insanity, much? That being said, I'm insulin resistant, and I still consume dairy, though I do restrict or avoid it whenever I can.
LOL I try not to think about it. I haven't drank milk in years, but I do eat the more solid dairy items. They're less dairy-ish.
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KnitOrMiss wrote: »For some of us who are insulin resistant, dairy can create an insulinogenic response, that is in this case a rise in insulin that is not proportionate to the amount of carbs in a food. This has a lot to do with whey, primarily, absent a casein sensitivity, by my understanding. However, further research I've done shows that sometimes using whey to increase insulin at the beginning of or appetizer-style before a meal can increase the insulin BEFORE the carbs arrive, which results in quicker processing of carbs within a meal leading to less blood glucose elevation that you might otherwise have, but that must be carefully managed and monitored.
That all being said, I still find it odd that we are the only species consuming the (breast)milk of another species, particularly when we know that milk is intended to increase a calf from around 500 pounds to well over 2000 pounds...and then we're surprised when that same dairy makes us gain weight... Definition of insanity, much? That being said, I'm insulin resistant, and I still consume dairy, though I do restrict or avoid it whenever I can.
What about cheese? Very low carb but could cause too much protein if consume too much.
@blambo61 - You would have to consume A LOT of cheese, depending on the type of cheese, of course, to get "too much protein" in comparison to fats... You'd probably approach your calorie goal first, honestly...2 -
KnitOrMiss wrote: »KnitOrMiss wrote: »For some of us who are insulin resistant, dairy can create an insulinogenic response, that is in this case a rise in insulin that is not proportionate to the amount of carbs in a food. This has a lot to do with whey, primarily, absent a casein sensitivity, by my understanding. However, further research I've done shows that sometimes using whey to increase insulin at the beginning of or appetizer-style before a meal can increase the insulin BEFORE the carbs arrive, which results in quicker processing of carbs within a meal leading to less blood glucose elevation that you might otherwise have, but that must be carefully managed and monitored.
That all being said, I still find it odd that we are the only species consuming the (breast)milk of another species, particularly when we know that milk is intended to increase a calf from around 500 pounds to well over 2000 pounds...and then we're surprised when that same dairy makes us gain weight... Definition of insanity, much? That being said, I'm insulin resistant, and I still consume dairy, though I do restrict or avoid it whenever I can.
What about cheese? Very low carb but could cause too much protein if consume too much.
@blambo61 - You would have to consume A LOT of cheese, depending on the type of cheese, of course, to get "too much protein" in comparison to fats... You'd probably approach your calorie goal first, honestly...
I can eat a lot of cheese! Please don't underestimate me I don't really count cals so I don't worry about that. My IF diet kind of takes care of that for me. Actually a few days ago I decided I was going to try LC for awhile to help with morning glucose levels. First night I put down 5 eggs and about 10 oz of mild chedder cheese. Don't know if I will do that again! 1 -
@blambo61 - There are a few threads already about getting fasting glucose levels to lower, but with Dawn Phenomenon, the fasting levels are of far less concern to most than postprandial testing and A1C values.
@RalfLott @cstehansen - Please confirm the testing and numbers information.0 -
Dr Nally says his AM FBG is consistently around 105 but his A1c is consistently at 5.2. Dawn phenomenon happens for most as cortisol is released to get you moving when you first wake up and that elevates BG. If you are IR, the effect is greater. It is not uncommon for for someone with IR and keto to have their highest reading of the day be their AM FBG reading. Most experts I have heard and read seem to think having your PP readings in the normal range is more important.
On a side note @blambo61 I brought my lunch today which is 8 eggs and about 6 oz of cheese and a jalapeño. I have a little plastic thing that lets me make a 4 egg omelette in the microwave. Of course I will make 2. After all, eggs are not just for breakfast anymore. I am limiting the cheese at lunch because I had about double that last night with dinner. Cheese is one thing that makes nearly every food better - along with bacon and jalapeños.1 -
KnitOrMiss wrote: »@blambo61 - There are a few threads already about getting fasting glucose levels to lower, but with Dawn Phenomenon, the fasting levels are of far less concern to most than postprandial testing and A1C values.
@RalfLott @cstehansen - Please confirm the testing and numbers information.
Thanks, I've been reading some. Going low carb this last 5 days (first ever experiment with this) has resulted in good morning and PP numbers even with getting 80g or some of protein in one sitting. Last night was 98 before bed (about 3-hrs after eating) and this morning was 85 I believe. After my 23 hour fast before dinner tonight it was 73. I start feeling it at about 75 I think.2 -
cstehansen wrote: »Dr Nally says his AM FBG is consistently around 105 but his A1c is consistently at 5.2. Dawn phenomenon happens for most as cortisol is released to get you moving when you first wake up and that elevates BG. If you are IR, the effect is greater. It is not uncommon for for someone with IR and keto to have their highest reading of the day be their AM FBG reading. Most experts I have heard and read seem to think having your PP readings in the normal range is more important.
On a side note @blambo61 I brought my lunch today which is 8 eggs and about 6 oz of cheese and a jalapeño. I have a little plastic thing that lets me make a 4 egg omelette in the microwave. Of course I will make 2. After all, eggs are not just for breakfast anymore. I am limiting the cheese at lunch because I had about double that last night with dinner. Cheese is one thing that makes nearly every food better - along with bacon and jalapeños.
I concur with the bacon and jalapenos! Yum, Yum
Last night I had an omelet 7 eggs with .75 cups of grated cheese and mushrooms, onions, celery, spinach, olives topped with home made salsa (no sugar added). Finished with a cup of blackberries and probably about 5 tbsp of heavy whipping cream!
I noticed I can tolerate a lot of uncooked cheese than I can cooked (like in the omelet). Slower released fat if uncooked.
Here is a treat you would appreciate and might be very familiar with.
Half a bunch of jalapenos and de-vain and de-seed
Put in oven and cook tell getting a little soft
Fill the halves with a mixture of cream cheese and bacon bits
Top with a piece of shrimp
Put in oven on broil tell the cheese start to get some brown spots
Enjoy! I make these every Christmas and Thanksgiving usually for the last several years (jalapeno poppers)2 -
KnitOrMiss wrote: »@blambo61 - There are a few threads already about getting fasting glucose levels to lower, but with Dawn Phenomenon, the fasting levels are of far less concern to most than postprandial testing and A1C values.
@RalfLott @cstehansen - Please confirm the testing and numbers information.
Thanks, I've been reading some. Going low carb this last 5 days (first ever experiment with this) has resulted in good morning and PP numbers even with getting 80g or some of protein in one sitting. Last night was 98 before bed (about 3-hrs after eating) and this morning was 85 I believe. After my 23 hour fast before dinner tonight it was 73. I start feeling it at about 75 I think.
You seem to be doing well. I'm guessing BG issues are not going to plague you.
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curvytattooedprincess wrote: »I've been told I'm IR and need to limit my dairy intake so how do I get enough fat in my diet without eating dairy?
Avocados are $3-4 each here so it's an occasional treat not a everyday food I can afford
You should be able to eat cheese. It has a lot of fat and protein but very little carbs or sugars. Don't eat too much protein either since excess can be turned to glucose.
Cottage cheese and yogurt have more carbs (stuff I've looked at anyways). Cream has no carbs like already mentioned.
Not so! Cream, in the tiny amounts recited in the nutritional info box, has close enough to no carbs that it gets winkingly rounded down to 0.
But you may get an insulin/glucose reaction if you civilize your morning espresso with a mouth-tickling 3 oz.' worth. Mmmmmmm.....
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If you are talking about heavy cream, it is about 6.4 grams of carbs per cup. If you are talking about cream cheese, that is generally 1-2 grams of carbs per 1 oz/2 TBSP serving, depending on brand.1
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KnitOrMiss wrote: »If you are talking about heavy cream, it is about 6.4 grams of carbs per cup. If you are talking about cream cheese, that is generally 1-2 grams of carbs per 1 oz/2 TBSP serving, depending on brand.
Ha! Where did you find the per cup data?
Good to know - thanks!0 -
The cream cheese is from me watching packages. Generally the expensive stuff is lower, because it has less added whey. The generic brand and/or Aldi's brand lists 2 grams per serve, Philly lists 1 gram per serve. Main difference on ingredients is added/additional whey ... or something like xantham gum, which is pretty low on carbs, too.
The heavy cream - my favorite site is fatsecret.com. I've spent a lot of time on google, and that was the best site that was coming up for reliable data when I was hard keto about 2 years ago. You can adjust serving sizes to see the difference between an ounce and a cup, etc. It's really useful. usda.gov is another good site, if you learn how to search it well, but not as versatile in the serving size manipulation... @RalfLott1 -
KnitOrMiss wrote: »The cream cheese is from me watching packages. Generally the expensive stuff is lower, because it has less added whey. The generic brand and/or Aldi's brand lists 2 grams per serve, Philly lists 1 gram per serve. Main difference on ingredients is added/additional whey ... or something like xantham gum, which is pretty low on carbs, too.
The heavy cream - my favorite site is fatsecret.com. I've spent a lot of time on google, and that was the best site that was coming up for reliable data when I was hard keto about 2 years ago. You can adjust serving sizes to see the difference between an ounce and a cup, etc. It's really useful. usda.gov is another good site, if you learn how to search it well, but not as versatile in the serving size manipulation... @RalfLott
Great, thx! 1 -
@RalfLott - Any time, my friend!1
This discussion has been closed.