Feeling rough experienced LCHF
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andysport1
Posts: 592 Member
I have followed LCHF off and on for quite sometime, since new year I've had issues at home meaning food and planning has been all over the place.
I'm feeling pretty rough at the moment headache, cold intolerance, lethargic.
Are these ill feelings just because I'm yo yoing in and out ? Or are they not related ?
I'm feeling pretty rough at the moment headache, cold intolerance, lethargic.
Are these ill feelings just because I'm yo yoing in and out ? Or are they not related ?
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Replies
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Sounds like it could be an electrolyte issue. You have a lot of fluctuations when you go in and out of keto so you'll need to watch that carefully.
http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10358179/keto-flu-dizzy-weak-tired-headaches-cramping-muscles-electrolyte-imbalance-may-be-your-problem#latest4 -
Sounds like it could be an electrolyte issue. You have a lot of fluctuations when you go in and out of keto so you'll need to watch that carefully.
http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10358179/keto-flu-dizzy-weak-tired-headaches-cramping-muscles-electrolyte-imbalance-may-be-your-problem#latest
That's a great read thanks, my sodium is 60% and pot 65% that's not taking into account any exercise/sweating1 -
Anytime I supplement potassium, I dump magnesium like a dump truck on full download. Most folks get enough potassium from foods, but magnesium is depleted almost completely in first world countries. If you are not solely eating organic and grassfed foods only, you're likely way under on magnesium.
And I found that over 18 months, the electrolyte issue could happen at any time given activity, hydration, different foods, sweating, being outdoors, random body adjustment (internal workings type stuff), or just with the darned moon cycle. Not always rhyme or reasons.
However, these issues are all also related to low thyroid function. Whenever we lower our insulin levels, which is a given eating lower carb, and we drop fortified foods like cereal or grains, we can identify underlying nutrient deficiencies and or pre-existing but camouflaged health conditions - or just finally deplete stored nutrients in the body. I would definitely have your thyroid checked with TSH, Free and Total T4, Total and Reverse T3. I would also look into a thyroid support formula, or just identify fortified foods you removed from your diet to see if there was anything you didn't add back in via food intake.
And absolutely, yo-yoing in and out of nutritional ketosis can add massive strain to the body. I'd recommend bumping up to stay out NK rather than allowing yourself to drop in and out of it... If that's part of the situation that's new, I'd recommend adding in some sort of adrenal support supplement, as that can be just enough of a strain on the body to tip you over into needing support.1 -
Apparently, blood tests might not be reliable indicators of potassium deficiency.
Here's are a couple short videos from Dr. Berg:
https://youtu.be/epNcLy6knx4
https://youtu.be/q2vPQYP0dpI
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Standard serum blood tests of electrolytes, @RalfLott , are not indicative of much, unless you're nearly to the point of needing to be admitted to the hospital for IV treatment.0
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KnitOrMiss wrote: »Standard serum blood tests of electrolytes, @RalfLott , are not indicative of much, unless you're nearly to the point of needing to be admitted to the hospital for IV treatment.
Hmm... Are symptoms all we have to go by?
If so, how do we know most people wouldn't benefit, even a little, from more potassium intake (from whatever source)?0 -
KnitOrMiss wrote: »Standard serum blood tests of electrolytes, @RalfLott , are not indicative of much, unless you're nearly to the point of needing to be admitted to the hospital for IV treatment.
Hmm... Are symptoms all we have to go by?
If so, how do we know most people wouldn't benefit, even a little, from more potassium intake (from whatever source)?
There are more tests - they just aren't commonly run. I don't remember the designations. It's like the equivalent of a Total T3, Free T3, and Reverse T3 ... etc. So what's usable, what's stored, and what's out there held in balance, etc.
EDITED TO ADD: I figure if adding potassium in Lite Salt makes me dump magnesium, food sources are enough for me without pursuing it specifically.0 -
KnitOrMiss wrote: »KnitOrMiss wrote: »Standard serum blood tests of electrolytes, @RalfLott , are not indicative of much, unless you're nearly to the point of needing to be admitted to the hospital for IV treatment.
Hmm... Are symptoms all we have to go by?
If so, how do we know most people wouldn't benefit, even a little, from more potassium intake (from whatever source)?
There are more tests - they just aren't commonly run. I don't remember the designations. It's like the equivalent of a Total T3, Free T3, and Reverse T3 ... etc. So what's usable, what's stored, and what's out there held in balance, etc.
EDITED TO ADD: I figure if adding potassium in Lite Salt makes me dump magnesium, food sources are enough for me without pursuing it specifically.
Aha. That would be a problem!
How did you determine cause & effect?0 -
KnitOrMiss wrote: »KnitOrMiss wrote: »Standard serum blood tests of electrolytes, @RalfLott , are not indicative of much, unless you're nearly to the point of needing to be admitted to the hospital for IV treatment.
Hmm... Are symptoms all we have to go by?
If so, how do we know most people wouldn't benefit, even a little, from more potassium intake (from whatever source)?
There are more tests - they just aren't commonly run. I don't remember the designations. It's like the equivalent of a Total T3, Free T3, and Reverse T3 ... etc. So what's usable, what's stored, and what's out there held in balance, etc.
EDITED TO ADD: I figure if adding potassium in Lite Salt makes me dump magnesium, food sources are enough for me without pursuing it specifically.
Aha. That would be a problem!
How did you determine cause & effect?
Cause and effect of adding potassium making me dump magnesium? I'd be level, no cramps, no keto electrolyte related issues.... I'd add lite salt, and start all the mess. I'd up mag, to the point of digestive upset, to only partial avail. Dropped it back down. Still a mess. Dropped lite salt completely? Mess full on disappeared.
So extensive testing, over 6 weeks? Repeatable results?
I can add a few shakes to an entire prepared dish, but adding a few shakes to my plate alone triggers it, so I only use it if I know my guy needs some too (he refuses supps, but I can sneak that in without his awareness when needed).
I can do the keto-ade if I'm outdoors for more than 30 minutes, doing extensive physical labor (like when we moved), or if I'm sweating buckets...but since I add more magnesium powder in that formula, I have to dial back my pill supplement when I do that...so as not to have digestive pyrotechnics.
@RalfLott - is that what you meant - or were you talking about the testing stuffs?2 -
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Cause and effect of adding potassium making me dump magnesium? I'd be level, no cramps, no keto electrolyte related issues.... I'd add lite salt, and start all the mess. I'd up mag, to the point of digestive upset, to only partial avail. Dropped it back down. Still a mess. Dropped lite salt completely? Mess full on disappeared.
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This is fascinating to me. I purchased lite salt and have tried it this week. I got weird leg/foot cramps last two nights and couldn't figure out why.
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@mmultanen - We generally get enough potassium from food, but magnesium is depleted over 90% in most first world countries due to lack of crop rotation, use of pesticides, GMO modified foods, and such. Because of that, unless you are eating all organic and grassfed foods, you're very very unlikely to be able to get enough magnesium through food. And because it is used in over 400 bodily process, when it hits us, it his hard! Make sure you get a good form (avoid OXIDE - you'll have to move in the bathroom and have your mail forwarded), and take it twice a day if you can, as it has a 12 hour efficacy.
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KnitOrMiss wrote: »KnitOrMiss wrote: »KnitOrMiss wrote: »Standard serum blood tests of electrolytes, @RalfLott , are not indicative of much, unless you're nearly to the point of needing to be admitted to the hospital for IV treatment.
Hmm... Are symptoms all we have to go by?
If so, how do we know most people wouldn't benefit, even a little, from more potassium intake (from whatever source)?
There are more tests - they just aren't commonly run. I don't remember the designations. It's like the equivalent of a Total T3, Free T3, and Reverse T3 ... etc. So what's usable, what's stored, and what's out there held in balance, etc.
EDITED TO ADD: I figure if adding potassium in Lite Salt makes me dump magnesium, food sources are enough for me without pursuing it specifically.
Aha. That would be a problem!
How did you determine cause & effect?
Cause and effect of adding potassium making me dump magnesium? I'd be level, no cramps, no keto electrolyte related issues.... I'd add lite salt, and start all the mess. I'd up mag, to the point of digestive upset, to only partial avail. Dropped it back down. Still a mess. Dropped lite salt completely? Mess full on disappeared.
So extensive testing, over 6 weeks? Repeatable results?
I can add a few shakes to an entire prepared dish, but adding a few shakes to my plate alone triggers it, so I only use it if I know my guy needs some too (he refuses supps, but I can sneak that in without his awareness when needed).
I can do the keto-ade if I'm outdoors for more than 30 minutes, doing extensive physical labor (like when we moved), or if I'm sweating buckets...but since I add more magnesium powder in that formula, I have to dial back my pill supplement when I do that...so as not to have digestive pyrotechnics.
@RalfLott - is that what you meant - or were you talking about the testing stuffs?
No, that was exactly the question! (The one I would have asked had I been precise instead of vague.)
I've tinkered around with variations on Keto-ade and not had radical consequences (yet). Sometimes I feel quite a bit peppier than other times; though I carefully measure the electrolytes I add, trying to accurately tally intake from dietary sources is hopelessly imprecise, and even the variables I can identify and control are almost impossible to hold constant.
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I purchased lite salt and have tried it this week. I got weird leg/foot cramps last two nights and couldn't figure out why.
As @KnitOrMiss suggests, that does indeed sound like a magnesium shortfall. Drs. Volek and Phinney (keto gurus) recommend spreading 3 tabs of slow-release magnesium (Slo-Mag or a knockoff equivalent) throughout the day, with the final tablet before bed, for a 2-3 weeks.
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Thanks guys! I've used natural vitality, natural calm mag. supplement with sea salt added for years and never experienced the leg/foot cramping until I substituted light salt this last week. Admittedly I don't know how natural vitality supplements rate, but it dramatically improved my sleep and energy when it was recommended to me about 3 years ago.1
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@mmultanen - Our body MUST keep a very delicate balance of electrolytes in the blood. Therefore, it will dump excesses - which results in dumping all things in some quantity. It will also leech the heck out of stores in muscles, and bones, etc., if it gets very low in something for whatever reason, which is where we end up with muscle cramps and such. Because if you have too much water/sodium/potassium, your body will make you pee extra, which will also dump magnesium, even if it wasn't low. Then, the mag might end up super low, so your body will go, "let's steal the magnesium from your calf muscles" and take it...and then any mild trigger, and you're in muscle cramp Hades.
I hadn't heard of the 3 times a day on magnesium, @RalfLott. I know it's recommended generally at twice a day due to it having a 12 hour life, but many can't tolerate the sleepy side effects in the mornings. I know some folks who take a different form in the AM and PM...or smaller dose in the AM, larger in the PM, etc.
And despite folks talking about the glories of slo-mag, it's always been a turn-off for me that it's mag oxide. Slow or not, my body does not tolerate oxide....like AT ALL. Three days of normal doses and I'm baby to infancy, making a BM in my sleep without warning. No need to repeat that again, EVER.
Correction - I must have been reviewing a generic brand when I'd looked at it before, because it shows to be magnesium chloride, which is supposed to be great for most people. Oh, I know, maybe it was the calcium that scared me off? I'd been warned firmly against EVER taking calcium as a supplement, and definitely only at night and ALONE if taking it, definitely not multiple times a day. That much calcium, and I'd have to double or triple my K2 consumption just not to clutter my arteries/worsen my heart risk! Must have been another recommended version of mag I was not happy with the formulation.
EDITED TO ADD: The maltodextrin in the formula probably didn't make me a fan, either. Or Talc. Mineral Oil. Dyes? Ugh, no thanks!0
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