Tired at all times? Is it low carb effect?

2

Replies

  • KnitOrMiss
    KnitOrMiss Posts: 10,103 Member
    nomorepuke wrote: »
    KnitOrMiss wrote: »
    nomorepuke wrote: »
    BishopLord wrote: »
    KnitOrMiss wrote: »
    Most folks in the adaption phase of low carbing (at least the first 12 weeks), and sometimes far beyond that timeframe, need to supplement 3000-5000 MG of sodium REPLACING what is being dumped... So your 2000 a day seems quite low to me, personally.
    IMHO, that's way too high, especially for people with health issues. I have my level set for less than 2300 a day. I had a couple heart attacks last June and both my cardiologist and primary care physician recommended cutting salt out of my diet. I don't use salt anyway, but still get sodium from food.


    What types of food would recommend that are high in sodium?
    Thank you.

    @nomorepuke - Processed meats and cheeses have good levels (salami, pepperoni, etc.). Olives. Pickles. Sauerkraut. Pickle juice. Spice blends...

    I've completely cut out processed foods and I make my own homemade cheese. Thanks tho.

    That's awesome. Then maybe look into curing your own homemade foods...or fermenting your own foods. @Karlottap I think it was had some great information about fermented cabbage juice.
  • cstehansen
    cstehansen Posts: 1,984 Member
    nomorepuke wrote: »
    KnitOrMiss wrote: »
    nomorepuke wrote: »
    BishopLord wrote: »
    KnitOrMiss wrote: »
    Most folks in the adaption phase of low carbing (at least the first 12 weeks), and sometimes far beyond that timeframe, need to supplement 3000-5000 MG of sodium REPLACING what is being dumped... So your 2000 a day seems quite low to me, personally.
    IMHO, that's way too high, especially for people with health issues. I have my level set for less than 2300 a day. I had a couple heart attacks last June and both my cardiologist and primary care physician recommended cutting salt out of my diet. I don't use salt anyway, but still get sodium from food.


    What types of food would recommend that are high in sodium?
    Thank you.

    @nomorepuke - Processed meats and cheeses have good levels (salami, pepperoni, etc.). Olives. Pickles. Sauerkraut. Pickle juice. Spice blends...

    I've completely cut out processed foods and I make my own homemade cheese. Thanks tho.

    In that case salted broth may be the best option - with homemade bone broth being the best because you get to determine sodium content.
  • kpk54
    kpk54 Posts: 4,474 Member
    nomorepuke wrote: »
    BishopLord wrote: »
    KnitOrMiss wrote: »
    Most folks in the adaption phase of low carbing (at least the first 12 weeks), and sometimes far beyond that timeframe, need to supplement 3000-5000 MG of sodium REPLACING what is being dumped... So your 2000 a day seems quite low to me, personally.
    IMHO, that's way too high, especially for people with health issues. I have my level set for less than 2300 a day. I had a couple heart attacks last June and both my cardiologist and primary care physician recommended cutting salt out of my diet. I don't use salt anyway, but still get sodium from food.


    What types of food would you recommend that are high in sodium?
    Thank you.

    Beet greens is the 1st thing that comes to my mind. I grow beets in my garden and decided to cook the greens one time and was surprised at the ample sodium content for a vegetable.
  • RalfLott
    RalfLott Posts: 5,036 Member
    BishopLord wrote: »
    nomorepuke wrote: »
    RalfLott wrote: »
    You've read plenty of comments about electrolytes by now, I'm sure.

    Any idea what your sodium intake was for the last few days?

    I'd never paid attention to "electrolytes threads" cos I didn't really have knowledge on what they were and why we needed them.
    But, I will look into that. Thank you

    Look into Brawndo. It's go Electrolytes! :wink:

    http://brawndo.com/

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tbxq0IDqD04

    Makes you pee Gatorade, though... :s
  • Sunny_Bunny_
    Sunny_Bunny_ Posts: 7,140 Member
    Listen to the recording in this link starting at 25:50.

    https://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10512939/great-keto-faq-interview-with-jeff-volek#latest
    Specifically mentions sodium needs, why and how it causes many symptoms including low energy.
  • nomorepuke
    nomorepuke Posts: 320 Member
    edited February 2017
    In addition to salting all foods to taste. Simple ways to get a lot of sodium with least effort.

    Drink pickle juice/eat pickles or olives
    Drink salted water
    Take sodium tablets (available in your pharmacy)
    Drink salty broth. Using boullion is fine too if you're not sensitive to msg.

    You are REPLACING the sodium your body has lost.
    Since you have not been replacing it from day 1, I would advise you to supplement magnesium daily. You may also benefit from lightly supplementing potassium at least a few days. You don't ordinarily need to supplement potassium but when sodium gets low, your body must balance all of your electrolytes so you literally dump your magnesium and potassium as well in order to keep the balance.
    Your body is more concerned with balance than anything else.
    If you drink a lot water, you'll need more salt. If you sweat or are extra active one day, you'll need more salt.
    If your sodium gets low, your body dumps the others to increase the blood sodium level. This makes you tired, lightheaded, have headaches, get muscle cramps, get constipated and all sorts of other things.
    Low sodium is actually potentially dangerous. The thing that people call "keto flu" is nothing more than sodium deficiency and this is exactly why I hate that term. You have no doubt heard of keto flu, yet you were unaware of your increased sodium needs. Using that term is preventing the actual cause of those symptoms from becoming common knowledge.

    There was a lady in a group last week who's 13 year old daughter became so dehydrated after 3 weeks in keto that she was hospitalized and it is was solely because they had no idea of the sodium needs and just thought "keto flu" was a normal thing and she just kept pushing through all the while encouraging more and more water consumption. She was absolutely floored when she found out it was dehydration with the amount of water the kid was drinking. She was actually diagnosed with metabolic acidosis which was the result of SEVERE dehydration.

    If I never hear the term "keto flu" again in my life it'll be too soon! This useless term is doing nothing but creating a sense of normalcy out of a potentially dangerous, but insanely easily corrected condition

    Ok. Rant over. :)

    Wow! Thanks for the info! See I have so much to learn.
    I've heard/read a term "keto flu" , I thought you get a flu when you start doing a keto diet lol.

    I'm not a pure keto dieter tho. I was in a keto Facebook group and got booted for sharing my dinner which contained a ton of green vegetables and Greek yogurt and one of the ingredients was kiwi fruit. I remember I also talked about cutting out processed and fast food. I use kiwi at a minimal amount. I also got booted from a CICO group when I started running my mouth about Low Carb diet. I also got booted from Low Carb diet group because someone thought my carb intake was too low and they thought I was on Keto. I guess I don't belong anywhere but what I'm doing is working for me. Only complaint I had was being tired all the time.
  • ccrdragon
    ccrdragon Posts: 3,374 Member
    About the only reason that you would get booted from here would be to go on a rant and tell us all that we were stupid for not eating our daily weight in carbs... since I don't think you will be doing that, you got no worries! :D
  • KnitOrMiss
    KnitOrMiss Posts: 10,103 Member
    Hear, hear!!! I agree... This group covers anyone intentionally trying to restrict any type of carb (with regular intense exercise, this can easily be 150-200 grams of healthy carbs) all the way down through zero carb. We realize that there is no such thing as "one size fits all." You must find your own path that works for you!
  • KnitOrMiss
    KnitOrMiss Posts: 10,103 Member
    In addition to salting all foods to taste. Simple ways to get a lot of sodium with least effort.

    Drink pickle juice/eat pickles or olives
    Drink salted water
    Take sodium tablets (available in your pharmacy)
    Drink salty broth. Using boullion is fine too if you're not sensitive to msg.

    You are REPLACING the sodium your body has lost.
    Since you have not been replacing it from day 1, I would advise you to supplement magnesium daily. You may also benefit from lightly supplementing potassium at least a few days. You don't ordinarily need to supplement potassium but when sodium gets low, your body must balance all of your electrolytes so you literally dump your magnesium and potassium as well in order to keep the balance.
    Your body is more concerned with balance than anything else.
    If you drink a lot water, you'll need more salt. If you sweat or are extra active one day, you'll need more salt.
    If your sodium gets low, your body dumps the others to increase the blood sodium level. This makes you tired, lightheaded, have headaches, get muscle cramps, get constipated and all sorts of other things.
    Low sodium is actually potentially dangerous. The thing that people call "keto flu" is nothing more than sodium deficiency and this is exactly why I hate that term. You have no doubt heard of keto flu, yet you were unaware of your increased sodium needs. Using that term is preventing the actual cause of those symptoms from becoming common knowledge.

    There was a lady in a group last week who's 13 year old daughter became so dehydrated after 3 weeks in keto that she was hospitalized and it is was solely because they had no idea of the sodium needs and just thought "keto flu" was a normal thing and she just kept pushing through all the while encouraging more and more water consumption. She was absolutely floored when she found out it was dehydration with the amount of water the kid was drinking. She was actually diagnosed with metabolic acidosis which was the result of SEVERE dehydration.

    If I never hear the term "keto flu" again in my life it'll be too soon! This useless term is doing nothing but creating a sense of normalcy out of a potentially dangerous, but insanely easily corrected condition

    Ok. Rant over. :)

    @Sunny_Bunny_ This is devastating. I hope the young lady doesn't have any permanent damage from the experience. That's so sad and scary. I've gotten into the mantra, "The so-called keto flu is 100% preventable." I think the reason folks buy into the misery so easily is that we're hard wired to think that worthwhile things must be hard and torturous to earn or they aren't worth anything... So sad.
  • RalfLott
    RalfLott Posts: 5,036 Member
    I heard there's an FB keto group that permits unlimited carbs...

    ...
    in suppositories. :s
  • ccrdragon
    ccrdragon Posts: 3,374 Member
    KnitOrMiss wrote: »
    @Sunny_Bunny_ This is devastating. I hope the young lady doesn't have any permanent damage from the experience. That's so sad and scary. I've gotten into the mantra, "The so-called keto flu is 100% preventable." I think the reason folks buy into the misery so easily is that we're hard wired to think that worthwhile things must be hard and torturous to earn or they aren't worth anything... So sad.

    This ^^^ so much! The standard approach to a 'diet' here in America is that is can't work unless it involves suffering and misery and drama to accomplish the simple task of weight loss. If there is one thing that would probably cause a massive break through in the diet industry (and probably put all of the sham diets out of business) it would be to change this mindset!
  • cstehansen
    cstehansen Posts: 1,984 Member
    ccrdragon wrote: »
    KnitOrMiss wrote: »
    @Sunny_Bunny_ This is devastating. I hope the young lady doesn't have any permanent damage from the experience. That's so sad and scary. I've gotten into the mantra, "The so-called keto flu is 100% preventable." I think the reason folks buy into the misery so easily is that we're hard wired to think that worthwhile things must be hard and torturous to earn or they aren't worth anything... So sad.

    This ^^^ so much! The standard approach to a 'diet' here in America is that is can't work unless it involves suffering and misery and drama to accomplish the simple task of weight loss. If there is one thing that would probably cause a massive break through in the diet industry (and probably put all of the sham diets out of business) it would be to change this mindset!

    WHAT?!?!?! You mean eating bacon and frying my veggies in bacon grease whenever I want isn't torture?!?!?! :D
  • 2t9nty
    2t9nty Posts: 1,631 Member
    KnitOrMiss wrote: »

    And try to avoid table salt. It can actually create dehydration issues. Stick to sea salts or natural salts where possible.

    I am curious about this. I have been aware of the salt thing. I drink a gallon of iced tea every day in addition to cups o' coffee, a glass of water from time to time, whatever. I claim fluid intake is pretty good for me. I have been making a point of salting food, but I am using table salt. Should I run to the kitchen and have some shots of pickle juice?

    I have been eating low carb since October. I have felt quite good most of that time, but in the past week I have been feeling a little run down and have had some achiness in leg muscles.

  • nomorepuke
    nomorepuke Posts: 320 Member
    ygg1zi59cx97.jpg
    Yup! Made sure to use more salt
  • RalfLott
    RalfLott Posts: 5,036 Member
    nomorepuke wrote: »
    Yup! Made sure to use more salt

    Wow! What exotic things have you created?

  • nomorepuke
    nomorepuke Posts: 320 Member
    edited February 2017
    RalfLott wrote: »
    nomorepuke wrote: »
    Yup! Made sure to use more salt

    Wow! What exotic things have you created?

    lol it's not that exotic
    I forgot the name of the fish. I have very low knowledge on fish. I used olive oil and pesto
    Salad : hard boiled egg, raw spinach, cucumber, red bell pepper, avocado
    Salad dressing: Greek yogurt, spinach, cucumber, tomato, avocado and kiwi fruit. I use it as a salad dressing but it's actually my smoothie I drink every morning for breakfast.
  • KnitOrMiss
    KnitOrMiss Posts: 10,103 Member
    2t9nty wrote: »
    KnitOrMiss wrote: »

    And try to avoid table salt. It can actually create dehydration issues. Stick to sea salts or natural salts where possible.

    I am curious about this. I have been aware of the salt thing. I drink a gallon of iced tea every day in addition to cups o' coffee, a glass of water from time to time, whatever. I claim fluid intake is pretty good for me. I have been making a point of salting food, but I am using table salt. Should I run to the kitchen and have some shots of pickle juice?

    I have been eating low carb since October. I have felt quite good most of that time, but in the past week I have been feeling a little run down and have had some achiness in leg muscles.

    @2t9nty - Some people are more prone to this than others. Most pickles just use table salt, too, as far as I know. Granted, liquid version (there are other random nutrients in pickle juice, too) will nearly always be better absorbed. I just know that if I'm crazy low on salt, any salt will help, but for long term salt - I need the Sea Salt...or I get dehydrated, no matter how many sodium chloride pills I take, etc.

    I would think that Celtic Grey Sea Salt or Pink Himalayan Sea Salt would be better options (Red Hawaiian, Black Lava Salt - literally dozens if not hundreds of options, depending on how fancy you want to get). Walmart and most normal grocers have some form of white sea salt and pink sea salt. The others tend to require online or more specialized stores to purchase, etc.
  • KnitOrMiss
    KnitOrMiss Posts: 10,103 Member
    edited February 2017
    nomorepuke wrote: »
    RalfLott wrote: »
    nomorepuke wrote: »
    Yup! Made sure to use more salt

    Wow! What exotic things have you created?

    lol it's not that exotic
    I forgot the name of the fish. I have very low knowledge on fish. I used olive oil and pesto
    Salad : hard boiled egg, raw spinach, cucumber, red bell pepper, avocado
    Salad dressing: Greek yogurt, spinach, cucumber, tomato, avocado and kiwi fruit. I use it as a salad dressing but it's actually my smoothie I drink every morning for breakfast.

    Be careful having spinach (or any green) every day, especially raw, as it can create toxicity. I can look up the articles that mention this... I know spinach, kale, and bok choy are on the list to not have raw every day...

    Generally, it is recommended to rotate greens. Parsley one day, Kale another, Spinach another, Cilantro another, Basil another, etc.
  • RalfLott
    RalfLott Posts: 5,036 Member
    KnitOrMiss wrote: »
    nomorepuke wrote: »
    RalfLott wrote: »
    nomorepuke wrote: »
    Yup! Made sure to use more salt

    Wow! What exotic things have you created?

    lol it's not that exotic
    I forgot the name of the fish. I have very low knowledge on fish. I used olive oil and pesto
    Salad : hard boiled egg, raw spinach, cucumber, red bell pepper, avocado
    Salad dressing: Greek yogurt, spinach, cucumber, tomato, avocado and kiwi fruit. I use it as a salad dressing but it's actually my smoothie I drink every morning for breakfast.

    Be careful having spinach (or any green) every day, especially raw, as it can create toxicity. I can look up the articles that mention this... I know spinach, kale, and bok choy are on the list to not have raw every day...

    Generally, it is recommended to rotate greens. Parsley one day, Kale another, Spinach another, Cilantro another, Basil another, etc.

    Uh oh.... If you would be so kind! <3
  • cstehansen
    cstehansen Posts: 1,984 Member
    RalfLott wrote: »
    KnitOrMiss wrote: »
    nomorepuke wrote: »
    RalfLott wrote: »
    nomorepuke wrote: »
    Yup! Made sure to use more salt

    Wow! What exotic things have you created?

    lol it's not that exotic
    I forgot the name of the fish. I have very low knowledge on fish. I used olive oil and pesto
    Salad : hard boiled egg, raw spinach, cucumber, red bell pepper, avocado
    Salad dressing: Greek yogurt, spinach, cucumber, tomato, avocado and kiwi fruit. I use it as a salad dressing but it's actually my smoothie I drink every morning for breakfast.

    Be careful having spinach (or any green) every day, especially raw, as it can create toxicity. I can look up the articles that mention this... I know spinach, kale, and bok choy are on the list to not have raw every day...

    Generally, it is recommended to rotate greens. Parsley one day, Kale another, Spinach another, Cilantro another, Basil another, etc.

    Uh oh.... If you would be so kind! <3

    I second this since I have a tendency to have weeks where I will go through 3-4 of the 10 oz bags of spinach. The bag claims to be 3 1/2 servings, so that is 11 1/2 to 15 servings in a week.
  • RalfLott
    RalfLott Posts: 5,036 Member
    cstehansen wrote: »
    RalfLott wrote: »
    KnitOrMiss wrote: »
    nomorepuke wrote: »
    RalfLott wrote: »
    nomorepuke wrote: »
    Yup! Made sure to use more salt

    Wow! What exotic things have you created?

    lol it's not that exotic
    I forgot the name of the fish. I have very low knowledge on fish. I used olive oil and pesto
    Salad : hard boiled egg, raw spinach, cucumber, red bell pepper, avocado
    Salad dressing: Greek yogurt, spinach, cucumber, tomato, avocado and kiwi fruit. I use it as a salad dressing but it's actually my smoothie I drink every morning for breakfast.

    Be careful having spinach (or any green) every day, especially raw, as it can create toxicity. I can look up the articles that mention this... I know spinach, kale, and bok choy are on the list to not have raw every day...

    Generally, it is recommended to rotate greens. Parsley one day, Kale another, Spinach another, Cilantro another, Basil another, etc.

    Uh oh.... If you would be so kind! <3

    I second this since I have a tendency to have weeks where I will go through 3-4 of the 10 oz bags of spinach. The bag claims to be 3 1/2 servings, so that is 11 1/2 to 15 servings in a week.

    Yep, that's a common pattern for me, too, (especially if the spinach looks more appetizing to palate or pocketbook while I'm shopping... ).
  • Cadori
    Cadori Posts: 4,810 Member
    cstehansen wrote: »
    RalfLott wrote: »
    KnitOrMiss wrote: »
    nomorepuke wrote: »
    RalfLott wrote: »
    nomorepuke wrote: »
    Yup! Made sure to use more salt

    Wow! What exotic things have you created?

    lol it's not that exotic
    I forgot the name of the fish. I have very low knowledge on fish. I used olive oil and pesto
    Salad : hard boiled egg, raw spinach, cucumber, red bell pepper, avocado
    Salad dressing: Greek yogurt, spinach, cucumber, tomato, avocado and kiwi fruit. I use it as a salad dressing but it's actually my smoothie I drink every morning for breakfast.

    Be careful having spinach (or any green) every day, especially raw, as it can create toxicity. I can look up the articles that mention this... I know spinach, kale, and bok choy are on the list to not have raw every day...

    Generally, it is recommended to rotate greens. Parsley one day, Kale another, Spinach another, Cilantro another, Basil another, etc.

    Uh oh.... If you would be so kind! <3

    I second this since I have a tendency to have weeks where I will go through 3-4 of the 10 oz bags of spinach. The bag claims to be 3 1/2 servings, so that is 11 1/2 to 15 servings in a week.

    Thirded. Meal plan for next week was egg salad on raw spinach for lunch.
  • cstehansen
    cstehansen Posts: 1,984 Member
    I am interested in how cooking it changes things since a couple of those servings are likely to be sauteed and put in as part of an omelette.
  • 2t9nty
    2t9nty Posts: 1,631 Member
    KnitOrMiss wrote: »

    @2t9nty - Some people are more prone to this than others. Most pickles just use table salt, too, as far as I know. Granted, liquid version (there are other random nutrients in pickle juice, too) will nearly always be better absorbed. I just know that if I'm crazy low on salt, any salt will help, but for long term salt - I need the Sea Salt...or I get dehydrated, no matter how many sodium chloride pills I take, etc.

    I would think that Celtic Grey Sea Salt or Pink Himalayan Sea Salt would be better options (Red Hawaiian, Black Lava Salt - literally dozens if not hundreds of options, depending on how fancy you want to get). Walmart and most normal grocers have some form of white sea salt and pink sea salt. The others tend to require online or more specialized stores to purchase, etc.

    I am outrageously cheap thrify. It looks as if Hain has some sea salt at Walmart I will try. It may not be much better than table salt, but it is bound to be an improvement and I can see what I think of it before taking the plunge in the deep end of one grey/black/red/pink sea or another.

  • kpk54
    kpk54 Posts: 4,474 Member
    2t9nty wrote: »
    KnitOrMiss wrote: »

    @2t9nty - Some people are more prone to this than others. Most pickles just use table salt, too, as far as I know. Granted, liquid version (there are other random nutrients in pickle juice, too) will nearly always be better absorbed. I just know that if I'm crazy low on salt, any salt will help, but for long term salt - I need the Sea Salt...or I get dehydrated, no matter how many sodium chloride pills I take, etc.

    I would think that Celtic Grey Sea Salt or Pink Himalayan Sea Salt would be better options (Red Hawaiian, Black Lava Salt - literally dozens if not hundreds of options, depending on how fancy you want to get). Walmart and most normal grocers have some form of white sea salt and pink sea salt. The others tend to require online or more specialized stores to purchase, etc.

    I am outrageously cheap thrify. It looks as if Hain has some sea salt at Walmart I will try. It may not be much better than table salt, but it is bound to be an improvement and I can see what I think of it before taking the plunge in the deep end of one grey/black/red/pink sea or another.

    I'm right there with you. Cheap frugal. I just looked at the amount of sodium in 1/4 tsp of table salt (on the container) and it is 590mg. The Sea Salt container says it has 560 per 1/4 tsp. I'll stop there...
  • RalfLott
    RalfLott Posts: 5,036 Member
    Packets of salt at McDonald's priceless free.
    (Add ketchup and saltines to impress your non-keto date with your cheapness frugality!)
  • KnitOrMiss
    KnitOrMiss Posts: 10,103 Member
    @cstehansen @RalfLott @Cadori

    I couldn't remember the exact details of why before, and I know I have about a dozen more articles on this, but it has to do with the antinutrients and other things that CAN build up in toxicity in your blood. I think this is more of an issue with raw than cooked, but my initial comment was in response to a pesto/salad dressing situation, neither of which are cooked to my understanding.

    Here is one article I found quickly that addresses the concerns. I'll hit back when I find the rest of the article I have.

    incrediblesmoothies.com/green-smoothies/why-and-how-you-should-rotate-your-leafy-greens/
  • KnitOrMiss
    KnitOrMiss Posts: 10,103 Member
    2t9nty wrote: »
    KnitOrMiss wrote: »

    @2t9nty - Some people are more prone to this than others. Most pickles just use table salt, too, as far as I know. Granted, liquid version (there are other random nutrients in pickle juice, too) will nearly always be better absorbed. I just know that if I'm crazy low on salt, any salt will help, but for long term salt - I need the Sea Salt...or I get dehydrated, no matter how many sodium chloride pills I take, etc.

    I would think that Celtic Grey Sea Salt or Pink Himalayan Sea Salt would be better options (Red Hawaiian, Black Lava Salt - literally dozens if not hundreds of options, depending on how fancy you want to get). Walmart and most normal grocers have some form of white sea salt and pink sea salt. The others tend to require online or more specialized stores to purchase, etc.

    I am outrageously cheap thrify. It looks as if Hain has some sea salt at Walmart I will try. It may not be much better than table salt, but it is bound to be an improvement and I can see what I think of it before taking the plunge in the deep end of one grey/black/red/pink sea or another.

    @2t9nty - Sea salt of any kind is better than table salt. I'm also in the whole FRUGAL/CHEAP category, because I've never been the type for whimsical luxuries - probably mainly because I couldn't AFFORD it...but I will (sometimes) invest in quality, because sometimes quantity when quality lacks will do more harm than good...other times, it's a negligible difference.

    (Side note: Watch for symptoms of needing to including more iodine rich foods in your diet. Most folks don't naturally eat iodine rich foods, which was part of why they started adding iodine to table salt in the first place... You may be fine and not need more iodine - it can hurt some folks - but it may benefit you heavily, too.)

    A plain white sea salt just means it has likely been bleached for color. The main differences in colors of salts have to do with the minerals in that particular type of salt. Exploring the different types and colors can be fun, but I tend to stick with the standard pink stuff that's not too pricey, and the white stuff when I can't afford the pink. I had to get some Red Hawaiian for a recipe once, and it was interesting, but nothing I'd go out of my way to buy. However, I bounced around on Amazon one day and found some samplers that made me drool at the variety! LOL
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