Keto Cycling?
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Scochrane86
Posts: 374 Member
I am putting this here because the facebook group just attacked me and I need some serious insight and not just "that's not how we do keto so see ya later".
Has anyone actually tried, or does Keto cycling? I have been spending a lot of time following Jason Wittrock and he created the ketocycle and it just seems to make sense. I just want some advice on if you tried it and what your experience was? I don't want to here "that's not how you do keto"
Has anyone actually tried, or does Keto cycling? I have been spending a lot of time following Jason Wittrock and he created the ketocycle and it just seems to make sense. I just want some advice on if you tried it and what your experience was? I don't want to here "that's not how you do keto"
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Whew. That sounds like a nasty scene. Forced religion where science is needed...
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I was invited to "Low Carb Cycling " on Facebook too. I don't know how that works. If it's good or bad, I have no idea
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Are you asking specifically about Wittrock's protocol, or are you interested in other versions of cyclic keto?1
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I'm actually planning on switching over to his Keto Cycle program once my waist size gets down to where I want it. I would have already switched over, but I'm having such great success with doing the traditional Ketogenic diet right now, that I don't want to mess with a good thing while it lasts, ya know?
As you know, Jason has lots of good videos & he is featured in some REALLY good EAS videos regarding Keto. This guy gets paid to look good for a living & has good past experience with the medical / nutritional side of this diet too. So this guy is definitely no dummy.
Obviously traditional Keto works GREAT for fat loss, but I figure that if this super fit, muscular guy can indulge in carbs once a week or so & still look the way that he does (and get back into ketosis fairly quickly), then he must be doing something right still.
He created the program based on his own personal experience, after figuring out what works best for him & his goals, I'm sure (though he does have custom versions of it based on your specific goals). I know I won't be regularly working out as much as him, but I do plan on upping my workout some more once I start his program. I just don't want to end up as a skinny rail after my fat is gone..... and the occasional indulgence of carbs would be a nice treat too (as long as I maintain).
So yeah, his program makes sense to me too. And I fully intend on trying it out eventually -once my focus shifts from fat loss to more muscle gain.1 -
I have tried carb cycling - not specifically keto-cycling...it didn't work for me, just caused a lot of cravings on my low-carb days and I found it hard to keep them under control which made the low-carb days pretty miserable. I do much better with consistent LCHF, but I'm not eating at keto levels of carbs.2
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I've done carb cycling in the past with moderate results. Depending on how complicated the cycle is it can be cumbersome to keep up with the meal prep. If you're talking just a refeed day every 7-14-30 days then that's much more simple and I've known quite a few people who have had success that way. It does take tailoring to you! So experiment. Now one caveat to refeeds is needing some type of intense exercise to burn off new muscle glycogen to get back to a ketotic state faster. If your refeeds will be closer together than more intense exercise will be needed. Hard core tabata or HIIT come to mind.
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What's the difference between consistency and cycling? What does cycle do for your body? What's the science behind it?
If it's good. I'd love to have my boyfriend try it cos he wouldn't give up his high carb diet. He's not overweight but it's hard to live in the same household cooking separate meals everyday.0 -
nomorepuke wrote: »What's the difference between consistency and cycling? What does cycle do for your body? What's the science behind it?
If it's good. I'd love to have my boyfriend try it cos he wouldn't give up his high carb diet. He's not overweight but it's hard to live in the same household cooking separate meals everyday.
The anecdotal basis is replenishing muscle glycogen periodically for sustained resistance training. You'll see this is mostly strength and aesthetic athletes. The jury is still kinda out on whether or not you can build muscle on keto, so folks will cycle carbs to sustain heavy training and promote muscle growth.
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XavierNusum wrote: »nomorepuke wrote: »What's the difference between consistency and cycling? What does cycle do for your body? What's the science behind it?
If it's good. I'd love to have my boyfriend try it cos he wouldn't give up his high carb diet. He's not overweight but it's hard to live in the same household cooking separate meals everyday.
The anecdotal basis is replenishing muscle glycogen periodically for sustained resistance training. You'll see this is mostly strength and aesthetic athletes. The jury is still kinda out on whether or not you can build muscle on keto, so folks will cycle carbs to sustain heavy training and promote muscle growth.
Sounds good. He plays basketball at the gym 4-5 times a week. I'm gonna talk him into that. He may consider it if it has to do with muscle growth0 -
nomorepuke wrote: »XavierNusum wrote: »nomorepuke wrote: »What's the difference between consistency and cycling? What does cycle do for your body? What's the science behind it?
If it's good. I'd love to have my boyfriend try it cos he wouldn't give up his high carb diet. He's not overweight but it's hard to live in the same household cooking separate meals everyday.
The anecdotal basis is replenishing muscle glycogen periodically for sustained resistance training. You'll see this is mostly strength and aesthetic athletes. The jury is still kinda out on whether or not you can build muscle on keto, so folks will cycle carbs to sustain heavy training and promote muscle growth.
Sounds good. He plays basketball at the gym 4-5 times a week. I'm gonna talk him into that. He may consider it if it has to do with muscle growth
If he likes basketball, let him know that a ketogenic diet was the chosen diet of LeBron James for weight loss. Even during his off season, I'm fairly confident LeBron would remain interested in his overall health and stamina.
Also the winner of the Tour De France eats a ketogenic diet for endurance. I think it might be both the #1 and #2 finishers of the race but not positive about that. Google will give more details.3 -
I'm following this too. Like a previous poster, I also intend to ease up the carb limitations once I have got down to my target (hopefully around 15% body fat or less). The reason being I want to get back some of the muscle mass I lost since last summer. I just don't know if I'll up my daily limit, or up it only on workout days, or introduce one carb day per week. I also wonder what stresses one places on their body over the long term going in and out of ketosis. I've read some of Jason's stuff on Bodybuilding.com and through forums. Interested. There seems to be a growing segment of the bodybuilding think-tank that champion the concept of intermittent fasting and low carb through the daytime, working out around 5 or 6 PM (if your schedule permits), then consuming more calories and carbs in the evening feeding window. Jason Ferruggia's Renegade Diet and John Kiefer's Carb Back-Loading come to mind.0
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I'm following this too. Like a previous poster, I also intend to ease up the carb limitations once I have got down to my target (hopefully around 15% body fat or less). The reason being I want to get back some of the muscle mass I lost since last summer. I just don't know if I'll up my daily limit, or up it only on workout days, or introduce one carb day per week. I also wonder what stresses one places on their body over the long term going in and out of ketosis. I've read some of Jason's stuff on Bodybuilding.com and through forums. Interested. There seems to be a growing segment of the bodybuilding think-tank that champion the concept of intermittent fasting and low carb through the daytime, working out around 5 or 6 PM (if your schedule permits), then consuming more calories and carbs in the evening feeding window. Jason Ferruggia's Renegade Diet and John Kiefer's Carb Back-Loading come to mind.
A lot of Kiefer's research and mechanism have come under serious scrutiny over the past few years. I wanted to believe that backloading had serious benefits but when he talked of a dozen doughnuts I checked out and went another way.
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XavierNusum wrote: »I'm following this too. Like a previous poster, I also intend to ease up the carb limitations once I have got down to my target (hopefully around 15% body fat or less). The reason being I want to get back some of the muscle mass I lost since last summer. I just don't know if I'll up my daily limit, or up it only on workout days, or introduce one carb day per week. I also wonder what stresses one places on their body over the long term going in and out of ketosis. I've read some of Jason's stuff on Bodybuilding.com and through forums. Interested. There seems to be a growing segment of the bodybuilding think-tank that champion the concept of intermittent fasting and low carb through the daytime, working out around 5 or 6 PM (if your schedule permits), then consuming more calories and carbs in the evening feeding window. Jason Ferruggia's Renegade Diet and John Kiefer's Carb Back-Loading come to mind.
A lot of Kiefer's research and mechanism have come under serious scrutiny over the past few years. I wanted to believe that backloading had serious benefits but when he talked of a dozen doughnuts I checked out and went another way.
Didn't he end up with the beetus, or am I thinking of another backload fanatic that used sugary baked crap?1 -
XavierNusum wrote: »A lot of Kiefer's research and mechanism have come under serious scrutiny over the past few years. I wanted to believe that backloading had serious benefits but when he talked of a dozen doughnuts I checked out and went another way.
Yeah, Kiefer's form of cycling carbs was a bit extreme, but the common denominator I was noticing was IF combined with low carb until post workout. It reminded me of another form of cycling touched upon by the OP. Beyond that, what published/monetized nutrition or exercise plan DOESN'T come under scrutiny, lol. There's no consensus on anything but drinking water instead of whiskey.0 -
There's no consensus on anything but drinking water instead of whiskey.
We're getting closer!
http://hotair.com/archives/2013/02/09/finally-research-shows-beer-healthier-than-water/
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Gallowmere1984 wrote: »
Didn't he end up with the beetus, or am I thinking of another backload fanatic that used sugary baked crap?
Would not surprise me one bit!Yeah, Kiefer's form of cycling carbs was a bit extreme, but the common denominator I was noticing was IF combined with low carb until post workout. It reminded me of another form of cycling touched upon by the OP. Beyond that, what published/monetized nutrition or exercise plan DOESN'T come under scrutiny, lol. There's no consensus on anything but drinking water instead of whiskey.
I didn't want to use the word "debunked" but he was publicly massacred by more than one more knowledgeable people in the industry. To the point I don't even here his name other than a reference to what "doesn't work" in the podcast/blog fitness world.
Now I have known people personally that would slam a 12oz reg coke and/or reg sized snickers post workout during contest prep. One good friend swore by the technique to stay "full" and not be completely flat when time to step on stage. But you are right, there are not many hard and fast rules, but some flat fail the test.0 -
XavierNusum wrote: »Gallowmere1984 wrote: »
Didn't he end up with the beetus, or am I thinking of another backload fanatic that used sugary baked crap?
Would not surprise me one bit!Yeah, Kiefer's form of cycling carbs was a bit extreme, but the common denominator I was noticing was IF combined with low carb until post workout. It reminded me of another form of cycling touched upon by the OP. Beyond that, what published/monetized nutrition or exercise plan DOESN'T come under scrutiny, lol. There's no consensus on anything but drinking water instead of whiskey.
I didn't want to use the word "debunked" but he was publicly massacred by more than one more knowledgeable people in the industry. To the point I don't even here his name other than a reference to what "doesn't work" in the podcast/blog fitness world.
Now I have known people personally that would slam a 12oz reg coke and/or reg sized snickers post workout during contest prep. One good friend swore by the technique to stay "full" and not be completely flat when time to step on stage. But you are right, there are not many hard and fast rules, but some flat fail the test.
A lack of carbs on stage day absolutely will screw you, but it's a very delicate balance. Not enough, you come in flat (lack of glycogen bulk). Too much, you come in soft (subcutaneous water). Sodium and water intakes also play a big role. Unfortunately, every person responds differently to varying amounts, so it requires a lot of self-experimentation with timing and quantities.1 -
This was the interview I was trying to find earlier. The OP mentioned Jason Wittrock, and keto cycling, and he touches on it in this interview. Lots of great stuff here though I suppose most of you have seen it. It's kinda long so save it to your watch later list and play when you have the time. I watched it over two spinning sessions.
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