Blood sugar tanked.
Scorpiotwin
Posts: 124 Member
I restarted trying to lose weight after an absurd holiday weight gain and I've been doing this for about a week. My carbs I try to keep around 100 plus I'm walking for about an hour plus and some light weight training. My blood sugar is usually in the mid 200's low 300's unless I take large amounts of Insulin. I'm on two insulins and metformin. Tonight I probably had what as I would describe as a tank in blood sugar. I took my sugar after I had some chocolate and cashews, trust me I needed it, and it was only 120 I can't even remember it being that low.
So my question is are there any diabetic/IR people that have experienced this? Should I up my carbs until I figure out the meds or should I back off the meds and stick to the plan? My original plan was to step down my carbs until I hit around 50 per day.
Sorry for the long post just looking for some advice.
So my question is are there any diabetic/IR people that have experienced this? Should I up my carbs until I figure out the meds or should I back off the meds and stick to the plan? My original plan was to step down my carbs until I hit around 50 per day.
Sorry for the long post just looking for some advice.
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Replies
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I am T2 and on metformin only. Before I started the LCHF, I was in the 200's and 300's almost every time I checked. Within about a week after starting LCHF, all my numbers were in the mid to high 100's. I am 4 months into a reasonably strict LCHF diet and my 30-day average is 117. My "soft" goal for carbs is 20 per day, and my "hard" goal is 29. I meet the "soft" goal almost every day now. When I first started the LCHF, my carb goal was 50, and I found that I seemed well suited to the way of eating. The glucose numbers really seemed to respond to the lower carbs. I was losing weight and felt good.
My counsel - bearing in mind that I am a novice at all this relatively speaking, and I am not a medical professional, etc. is that you should lower the carbs. Keep track of your numbers. Consult your doctor if you think the glucose levels are getting too low and let him/her adjust the meds.6 -
Should you increase carbs? Only if you don't want to reduce insulin... plus, 120 isn't low.
Anything from 70 to 100 is where you want to be.3 -
But, as someone who is used to being at 200-300, 120 can feel like a complete crash, I've been told... You may need to work on leveling out at your current space before stepping down again...
A 120 PP reading is close to optimal, to my understanding.3 -
I just wanted to add, contrary to what most doctors and diabetes web sources tell you, you are not doomed to a life of taking ever increasing doses of insulin and medications. You are not doomed to all of the chronic diseases associated with diabetes. You are not doomed to a condition they describe as a "progressive disease".
It's only progressive if you treat it with the ADA diet and big pharmas medications.
You already have evidence that what you eat is more powerful on your blood sugar in positive ways than the meds have proven to be. If you can achieve normal blood sugars without high doses and possibly without meds at all in the near future, then why do anything else?
My daughter is Type 1. Shortly after her diagnosis she would feel low blood sugars starting at 180 because she was so used to being over 300. She had every symptom of low blood sugar at that high level. She had to learn not to treat blood sugar with carbs unless it truly was low. Now, she only treats for blood sugar under 75 unless she has active fast acting insulin on board. But thats almost never an issue because even as a T1D, eating keto makes it possible for her to get by mostly on long acting insulin. She went from using about 150 units fast acting in addition to the long acting every day to less than 30 units fast and mostly managing with the long acting.
Her doctors and nurses want her eating carbs at every meal and 3 snacks a day just so she can take more insulin, but there's no reason to do that. You only need insulin for what you eat. If you don't eat all their carbs, you don't need all the insulin and your body can finally heal the insulin resistance. Exposure to high insulin is after all the cause of it. So how can it ever get better if the insulin never gets lowered?
My daughter developed insulin resistance within her first year after diagnosis taking all the insulin they told her to cover the carbs she was eating. Their advice made her insulin resistant. She would've been doomed to all the complications that go with it if she kept following their advice.18 -
Eating low carb will dramatically affect you're blood sugar numbers which is a good thing
I would suggest talking to your Dr about your new and improved ( 
)numbers, to see how about lowering your insulin. I went from taking Januvia, Actos, and Metformin to just Metformin in a couple of months with this way of eating. My A1C dropped from 7.8 to 5.1 since last May and my sugars usually stay around 80-100. This way of eating is the best way to manage and control diabetes in my opinion. Good luck and keto on! 10 -
You know what else i find weird?
Whenever it's a T2 person, there's always the advice to talk to the doctor about lowering insulin. It's always a fixed dose on a fixed schedule. And any changes have to go through the doctor.
For a T1D, even as children, they are taught how to adjust their dosing on their own. Every single day may be a completely different amount from the day before and there's no phone call to the doctor. Even adjustments to long acting are fine that way. They tell you, "start here" and adjust based on your morning blood sugars.
The lack of patient empowerment by doctors in the T2D community is sad. They truly seem to make it all so glib and as if you aren't in control.
Sorry, this subject struck a nerve. Lol25 -
@Sunny_Bunny_ That's really interesting when you stop to think about it...3
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KnitOrMiss wrote: »@Sunny_Bunny_ That's really interesting when you stop to think about it...
And really scary7 -
Well, @Scorpiotwin I think you can see there are more than a few diabetic/IR people in this group. I will just add something Dr Mark Hyman said which seems appropriate which is when we are prescribed all these meds, it isn't because we are insulin deficient (unless you are T1), metformin deficient, januvia deficient, statin deficient, etc. There is an underlying issue causing a symptom which is treated by these drugs. Doesn't it make FAR more sense to treat the underlying issue rather than just the symptom?
By lowering your carbs (and 100g/day is a good start), you have seen you have started improving the underlying cause of the symptom. If the symptom reduces, the need for meds reduces. This is a good thing. I have gone from T2 to pre-diabetic without any meds. I took metformin for about 6 weeks before deciding I was going to beat this without any meds.
Everyone will respond to a different degree, but it sounds like you are already responding very favorably to the lower carbs. If you truly want to be healthy, stay the course with the lower carbs and keep track of how your BG progresses.
I think you will find you will begin to feel better. As this happens, if your BG is still not in the normal range (70-100 fasting, A1c below 5.5) without meds, you may decide to lower them more. I started with lower carbs like you. I now at am keto levels (under 20) without even trying. I have found foods I love and a way of eating that has lowered not only my BG, but my inflammation markers, triglycerides, stopped my snoring, made my wife happy because flatulence has all but disappeared, stopped the bloated feeling I didn't even realize I had until it was gone, etc.
The benefits of dumping sugar and processed carbs (bread, crackers, pasta....anything that has an ingredient that starts with the word "enriched"), will do wonders for how you feel in so many ways you won't believe it. It may not happen immediately. For me, it was when I decided to eat some of that and realized the way I felt afterwards was what I used to consider normal. With my new normal way of feeling, it was very easy for me to decide it just is not worth going back to eating that carbage.7 -
@Scorpiotwin, in case you haven't already gotten around to it, I would suggest you read Dr. Bernstein's Diabetes Solution and watch his insulin-themed Diabetes University videos on YouTube. They are extremely informative, and his approach is pure LC, with as little insulin and Metformin as necessary.
BTW he's his own best success story - still going strong in his 80s with T1D, on a LC diet for decades
, by studiously disregarding conventional medical and ADA exhortations to eat more carbs and take more insulin. 
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Go the the diabetes thread at the top of the group's home page to get a full education on LC and diabetes, tons of resources there to help you.3
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Sunny_Bunny_ wrote: »You know what else i find weird?
Whenever it's a T2 person, there's always the advice to talk to the doctor about lowering insulin. It's always a fixed dose on a fixed schedule. And any changes have to go through the doctor. ...
The lack of patient empowerment by doctors in the T2D community is sad. They truly seem to make it all so glib and as if you aren't in control.
I must have been very lucky with my endocrinologists. For all intents and purposes, I am a well-controlled diabetic who is otherwise "healthy", but I'm fat. In the pursuit of losing the weight, I've been given permission to adjust and play about with my insulin (types, doses and timing) to my heart's content, providing I am testing regularly and providing appropriate feedback to my medical team. I feel sorry for people whose doctors don't permit them the same flexibility and insist on a regimen that is potentially harmful over the longer term.
@Scorpiotwin, I found when I first started my treatment for diabetes some ten years ago that I felt low any time I dropped below 180 or so. I was carrying an a1C of almost 14 at that time, so it took a while for my body to adjust to the new normal as it dropped. Now I don't feel low unless I'm under 60. I've been a bit sloppy on my LC eating recently; ideally I want to be under 50g net per day. That makes it easier to keep my sugars stable. You will start to feel normal at level blood sugar levels, but in the meantime, know that you're not physically unsafely low at 120. You just feel a bit funny 5 -
Sunny_Bunny_ wrote: »You know what else i find weird?
Whenever it's a T2 person, there's always the advice to talk to the doctor about lowering insulin. It's always a fixed dose on a fixed schedule. And any changes have to go through the doctor.
For a T1D, even as children, they are taught how to adjust their dosing on their own. Every single day may be a completely different amount from the day before and there's no phone call to the doctor. Even adjustments to long acting are fine that way. They tell you, "start here" and adjust based on your morning blood sugars.
The lack of patient empowerment by doctors in the T2D community is sad. They truly seem to make it all so glib and as if you aren't in control.
Sorry, this subject struck a nerve. Lol
I'm T2 and my doc empowered me to adjust my own insulin. I wasn't aware that other T2s prescribed insulin were not provided with the same type of support, not really sure how someone could take the same amount of bolus insulin every day. However, if they're just taking basal insulin, it would make more sense for that to be more of a steady routine.
But if you're referring to advice in forums like this, I think it's wise for everyone to hedge prescription recommendations with "but please discuss with your doc as what worked for me may not work for you." None of us are medical professionals with a full medical history from our peers here in the group, so we're not qualified to give medical advice, so we should be careful in the way we offer our opinions.
To the OP, I was taking 310 units of insulin a day just over a year ago. In my first 30 days, I got down to 20 units a day. About 4-5 months in, I was off insulin all together and I've been a diabetic for 11 years. Just sharing so you know it is possible to take back control of your body and your life. I know how challenging and frustrating it can be to be insulin dependent. It is such a relief to me to feel more in control of my life. It's not easy and I continue to fight and struggle every day when I'm faced with food temptations, but knowing how far I've come gives me the strength to stay away from carbs.9 -
Here's the latest meta-analysis on low-carb and diabetes: "Low to moderate carbohydrate diets have greater effect on glycemic control in type 2 diabetes...The greater the carbohydrate restriction, the greater glucose lowering"
This was shared by Nina Teicholz today. I thought you might find it helpful.
http://drc.bmj.com/content/5/1/e000354?utm_content=buffer9b482&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer8 -
Sunny_Bunny_ wrote: »I just wanted to add, contrary to what most doctors and diabetes web sources tell you, you are not doomed to a life of taking ever increasing doses of insulin and medications. You are not doomed to all of the chronic diseases associated with diabetes. You are not doomed to a condition they describe as a "progressive disease".
It's only progressive if you treat it with the ADA diet and big pharmas medications.
You already have evidence that what you eat is more powerful on your blood sugar in positive ways than the meds have proven to be. If you can achieve normal blood sugars without high doses and possibly without meds at all in the near future, then why do anything else?
My daughter is Type 1. Shortly after her diagnosis she would feel low blood sugars starting at 180 because she was so used to being over 300. She had every symptom of low blood sugar at that high level. She had to learn not to treat blood sugar with carbs unless it truly was low. Now, she only treats for blood sugar under 75 unless she has active fast acting insulin on board. But thats almost never an issue because even as a T1D, eating keto makes it possible for her to get by mostly on long acting insulin. She went from using about 150 units fast acting in addition to the long acting every day to less than 30 units fast and mostly managing with the long acting.
Her doctors and nurses want her eating carbs at every meal and 3 snacks a day just so she can take more insulin, but there's no reason to do that. You only need insulin for what you eat. If you don't eat all their carbs, you don't need all the insulin and your body can finally heal the insulin resistance. Exposure to high insulin is after all the cause of it. So how can it ever get better if the insulin never gets lowered?
My daughter developed insulin resistance within her first year after diagnosis taking all the insulin they told her to cover the carbs she was eating. Their advice made her insulin resistant. She would've been doomed to all the complications that go with it if she kept following their advice.
So true! I have a bit of reactive hypoglycemia, so my BG falls very quickly within a couple of hours of eating. When I did an oral glucose tolerance test, my BG hit 170 within an hour, but by the second hour my BG had fallen to about 80 which was lower than where I started. I felt horrible, but I was not actually low. In fact, that 80 was pretty good but the fall from 170 to just below an 80 in under an hour felt horrible!
For me, it's the fast fall of BG levels that made me feel hypo (cold sweats, shakes, mild brain fog, weak) but I was not ever actually hypo.
On the bright side, the less I rely on carbs for fuel, the less frequently that happened. A low carb diet can help even out those highs and lows. Now my BG stays between 80 and 110 almost all of the time. 8 -
Thank you for all of the advice. Until I can get in to the doctor. I've decided to just keep taking the metformin and cut back on the levemir. I am still taking my fast acting insulin as well but a lot less of it.4
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I hope you're testing obsessively as you go through this transition...
I never started insulin, but I take the full 2000mg of Glucophage XR (brand metformin). Combined with LC, it does the trick for me (thank god!).
Still, I had no ability to predict my BG on the basis of how I felt. The first month or so, I could be as far as 40 points off when I guessed at my BG level. Now, the patterns are more predictable, but I'm often wrong.
Bottom line - There's no substitute for knowing how you're doing, if you want to know how you're doing!
Glad you're able to lower your insulin! Sounds like you're making great progress.9 -
Sunny_Bunny_ wrote: »You know what else i find weird?
Whenever it's a T2 person, there's always the advice to talk to the doctor about lowering insulin. It's always a fixed dose on a fixed schedule. And any changes have to go through the doctor.
For a T1D, even as children, they are taught how to adjust their dosing on their own. Every single day may be a completely different amount from the day before and there's no phone call to the doctor. Even adjustments to long acting are fine that way. They tell you, "start here" and adjust based on your morning blood sugars.
The lack of patient empowerment by doctors in the T2D community is sad. They truly seem to make it all so glib and as if you aren't in control.
Sorry, this subject struck a nerve. Lol
yes Mam , my husband is a type 1 diabetic and has been since he was 19 and he is now 58 , he has to adjust his dosage all the time , when he works 12 hour days he takes less, if he is home and being lazy he takes more , he also has very low blood sugar readings and also has high ones , but for 80% of the time he is good , we have been married for 26 years and he has had 6 seizures in those 26 years , from low blood sugar . BUt he has to take his sugar test up too 5 times a day . (sometimes) He does it himself , yes he sees a doctor every 3 months , but it is up to my husband to keep himself in check2 -
@Scorpiotwin, in case you haven't already gotten around to it, I would suggest you read Dr. Bernstein's Diabetes Solution and watch his insulin-themed Diabetes University videos on YouTube. They are extremely informative, and his approach is pure LC, with as little insulin and Metformin as necessary.
BTW he's his own best success story - still going strong in his 80s with T1D, on a LC diet for decades, by studiously disregarding conventional medical and ADA exhortations to eat more carbs and take more insulin.
I second the suggestion to read Dr. Bernstein's Diabetes Solution. What an awesome guy. His story and his life are amazing. He was actually an engineer (with Type 1) who got fed up with the medical stupidity going on and decided to become an MD himself to help other diabetics. I thoroughly enjoyed his book because even though he is an MD I can see the engineer as well, heh. Do check him out. 3 -
120 right after eating something is good.
If you are 120 while fasting, it is too high. If you normally run 200's and 300's, you really need to get to 120 (and even lower) RIGHT NOW!!!
Staying in the 200's and 300's all the time is what ruins your health.4 -
I understand about the drops feeling uncomfortable. It took me a while to get past the diabetes educators who said you only had those feelings when you were actually low. No, you get them when there is a big difference even if it isn't technically low. I have been doing low carb (trying for 50, succeeding about 60) for the last 3 months. When my morning BS is down below 100, I drop my insulin (I only take Lantus and metformin) by 2 units. My BS will then go up to between 105 and 115 in the morning, and I start again. So far I have gone from 58 units to 36 units. The biggest drop was at the beginning and I did have to occasionally eat an orange when my blood sugar dropped to 70. Good luck with your journey, and keep checking your blood sugar and adjusting downward as you get better. :-)3
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@Scorpiotwin, in case you haven't already gotten around to it, I would suggest you read Dr. Bernstein's Diabetes Solution and watch his insulin-themed Diabetes University videos on YouTube. They are extremely informative, and his approach is pure LC, with as little insulin and Metformin as necessary.
BTW he's his own best success story - still going strong in his 80s with T1D, on a LC diet for decades, by studiously disregarding conventional medical and ADA exhortations to eat more carbs and take more insulin.
I second the suggestion to read Dr. Bernstein's Diabetes Solution. What an awesome guy. His story and his life are amazing. He was actually an engineer (with Type 1) who got fed up with the medical stupidity going on and decided to become an MD himself to help other diabetics. I thoroughly enjoyed his book because even though he is an MD I can see the engineer as well, heh. Do check him out.
He's a big reason we even have home blood sugar testing devices at all. He fought tooth and nail for them when they were first being developed.2 -
I know that this is a relatively new perspective, but it could really change the way that even conventional medicine treats some types of diabetes!
https://blog.thediabetessite.com/5-types/1 -
KnitOrMiss wrote: »I know that this is a relatively new perspective, but it could really change the way that even conventional medicine treats some types of diabetes!
https://blog.thediabetessite.com/5-types/
Yep, very interesting. I saw this on MedScape the other day when I was going through my notifications from their site.1 -
KnitOrMiss wrote: »I know that this is a relatively new perspective, but it could really change the way that even conventional medicine treats some types of diabetes!
https://blog.thediabetessite.com/5-types/
Thanks for this link. I hadn’t seen this yet. I will be discussing this with my doc next time as I think that second cluster sounds more like me wher I just don’t produce enough insulin but not a type 1. My fasting insulin ranges between 3&4 and glucose and fructose metabolism both test well, but can’t get my A1c below 63 -
cstehansen wrote: »KnitOrMiss wrote: »I know that this is a relatively new perspective, but it could really change the way that even conventional medicine treats some types of diabetes!
https://blog.thediabetessite.com/5-types/
Thanks for this link. I hadn’t seen this yet. I will be discussing this with my doc next time as I think that second cluster sounds more like me wher I just don’t produce enough insulin but not a type 1. My fasting insulin ranges between 3&4 and glucose and fructose metabolism both test well, but can’t get my A1c below 6
@cstehansen - That's so strange! I hope you get some answers... By any chance, has your doctor run the beta cell tests to determine your pancreatic function, etc.? @Sunny_Bunny_ can better explain, as she's been through all that with her daughter. I found it fascinating how many tests there are to tell you what beta cell function capacity you have, as well as if it's autoimmune related, and all of that stuff...
I wonder if you continually overtaxed your pancreas/insulin when you used to do your extended exercise/increased volume eating, leaving it less able to perform as needed in a normal setting.
I know that at my absolute best, my fasting insulin level was around/just under a 6...the 7-9 range is pretty normal for me fasting, doesn't matter 8-12 hours, etc. My A1c has not been over a 5.3 or 5.4%....
Have you used any of the "naturally balancing blood glucose" nutrients or supplements? It seems like these days, nearly everyone puts stupid chromium into vitamins, and it attempts to override my body's existing, developed blood sugar management system.
Vanadium is one of those...alpha lipoic acid (ALA)...etc.0 -
cstehansen wrote: »KnitOrMiss wrote: »I know that this is a relatively new perspective, but it could really change the way that even conventional medicine treats some types of diabetes!
https://blog.thediabetessite.com/5-types/
Thanks for this link. I hadn’t seen this yet. I will be discussing this with my doc next time as I think that second cluster sounds more like me wher I just don’t produce enough insulin but not a type 1. My fasting insulin ranges between 3&4 and glucose and fructose metabolism both test well, but can’t get my A1c below 6
Have you had a fructosamine test? It's like A1c, but the time frame is much shorter and the confounding factors are different.1 -
I haven't had a chance to listen to all if this yet, but sounds like a similar thing. Shawn Baker is a really fit, middle aged carnivore who has some higher BG readings than expected, usually in the morning. His insulin levels were good too. He might have some insights that could apply to your situation.
https://robbwolf.com/2018/03/13/episode-385-dr-shawn-baker-carnivore-diet-and-dr-bakers-blood-work/cstehansen wrote: »KnitOrMiss wrote: »I know that this is a relatively new perspective, but it could really change the way that even conventional medicine treats some types of diabetes!
https://blog.thediabetessite.com/5-types/
Thanks for this link. I hadn’t seen this yet. I will be discussing this with my doc next time as I think that second cluster sounds more like me wher I just don’t produce enough insulin but not a type 1. My fasting insulin ranges between 3&4 and glucose and fructose metabolism both test well, but can’t get my A1c below 6
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I’ve heard information before about the fact that red blood cells live longer on keto than SAD. So if that’s the case, that’s part of the explanation to why his A1c is high. His cells have been around for longer than the 3 months the test is using to determine the number. So it’s just inaccurate2
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I'm type 2 and have had a few low blood sugar levels in the morning, mostly. Sometimes, just moderately low, like 60-80. I have been doing this WOE since October, but have done low carb before. The blood sugar levels that are low scare me. I no longer take diabetes medicine except for a few spikes. I tried 20 carbs a day, but it was just too low.I usually eat 30-80, and sometimes 100. I turned 50 early this year. I've lost about 15 pounds, but it goes up and down.I also have lymphedema. Finding the right carb limit seems to be hard for me.0
