Not losing weight
Replies
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Sunny_Bunny_ wrote: »I have done keto quite a bit over the years and the only time I ever managed to consistently lose after the initial water weight loss, was when I actually tracked my macros. I always followed the OKL chart (google it). I think even though I was eating less due to ketosis, I was still eating too much fat and that was pushing me over my calories
Hmmmm, it suggests eating less fat than protein? I thought this was bad? I'm 5'7" and it says 103g protein, minimum of 77g fat.
How much fat you eat is adjusted up or down based on weight loss, maintenance or weight gain goals. Carbs and protein are pretty much fixed and consumed fat is adjusted to create or close a calorie deficit.
Basically, if you want to burn more body fat, eat less fat.
Oh, so at least 77g but more depending on left over calories (after carbs and protein). I just thought I read somewhere that you should eat more fat than protein to avoid your body using protein as an energy source? Or is this in % not grams?0 -
I have done keto quite a bit over the years and the only time I ever managed to consistently lose after the initial water weight loss, was when I actually tracked my macros. I always followed the OKL chart (google it). I think even though I was eating less due to ketosis, I was still eating too much fat and that was pushing me over my calories
Hmmmm, it suggests eating less fat than protein? I thought this was bad? I'm 5'7" and it says 103g protein, minimum of 77g fat.
Protein is a funny topic. There is a lot of variability. Unfortunately, with that there is a lot of conflict within the keto community.
IMHO, we need to stop the infighting on this topic and understand that depending on factors such as level of activity, insulin resistance, genetics, etc., the amount of protein one can consume and remain ketogenic will vary.
There is a bare minimum that is needed. Even that amount can be debated. I tend to look at the arguments that have scientific studies to back them up. The lowest amount seems to be about 0.75 g per kg of lean body mass for someone who basically sits on the couch all day with little to no activity.
Phinney and Volek recommend between 1.5-2 grams per kg of ideal body weight.
Those factors mentioned above affect how your body will treat protein above what you need. Those who are extremely IR are more likely to convert that protein into glucose via gluconeogenesis. Those who are healthy metabolically and very active are less likely to do so until much higher levels are consumed.
To truly know what is best for you, you would need to get a blood ketone meter or a breath ketone meter (urine strips are not reliable) to measure your level of ketosis and do your own n=1 experiment to see how different levels of protein affect you. Some use BG readings, but that will not tell the whole story because protein will convert to glucose in the blood much slower than carbs will, so it is more like getting a steady stream of low dose glucose over a longer period of time thus not giving a real spike in those BG readings. However, it could be preventing you from getting into ketosis which is why the ketones have to be measured to know for sure.
Again, IMHO, the OKL chart may very well be a good one to use for those who are metabolically healthy, but if one is IR, I think there is a good chance the protein may be too high depending on your level of IR.
We in the keto community need to stop doing what those in the SAD community do, which is claim that if a certain thing works for me, then it must work for everyone exactly the same way and if it doesn't then that other person must be doing it wrong.4 -
cstehansen wrote: »I have done keto quite a bit over the years and the only time I ever managed to consistently lose after the initial water weight loss, was when I actually tracked my macros. I always followed the OKL chart (google it). I think even though I was eating less due to ketosis, I was still eating too much fat and that was pushing me over my calories
Hmmmm, it suggests eating less fat than protein? I thought this was bad? I'm 5'7" and it says 103g protein, minimum of 77g fat.
Protein is a funny topic. There is a lot of variability. Unfortunately, with that there is a lot of conflict within the keto community.
IMHO, we need to stop the infighting on this topic and understand that depending on factors such as level of activity, insulin resistance, genetics, etc., the amount of protein one can consume and remain ketogenic will vary.
There is a bare minimum that is needed. Even that amount can be debated. I tend to look at the arguments that have scientific studies to back them up. The lowest amount seems to be about 0.75 g per kg of lean body mass for someone who basically sits on the couch all day with little to no activity.
Phinney and Volek recommend between 1.5-2 grams per kg of ideal body weight.
Those factors mentioned above affect how your body will treat protein above what you need. Those who are extremely IR are more likely to convert that protein into glucose via gluconeogenesis. Those who are healthy metabolically and very active are less likely to do so until much higher levels are consumed.
To truly know what is best for you, you would need to get a blood ketone meter or a breath ketone meter (urine strips are not reliable) to measure your level of ketosis and do your own n=1 experiment to see how different levels of protein affect you. Some use BG readings, but that will not tell the whole story because protein will convert to glucose in the blood much slower than carbs will, so it is more like getting a steady stream of low dose glucose over a longer period of time thus not giving a real spike in those BG readings. However, it could be preventing you from getting into ketosis which is why the ketones have to be measured to know for sure.
Again, IMHO, the OKL chart may very well be a good one to use for those who are metabolically healthy, but if one is IR, I think there is a good chance the protein may be too high depending on your level of IR.
We in the keto community need to stop doing what those in the SAD community do, which is claim that if a certain thing works for me, then it must work for everyone exactly the same way and if it doesn't then that other person must be doing it wrong.
Okey dokey. I didn't realise this was a cause of debate, I thought the whole gluconeogenesis was a set-in-stone fact kind of thing. Hence the high-fat part. Plus my step-mother-in-law hit the roof when I said I was doing low-carb because she has poly-cystic kidneys and started going on about too much protein is bad for your kidneys etc etc.
Has this been put into a sticky at the top of the page? I don't remember reading about it, otherwise I would have accepted the chart and moved on. I was more concerned than wanted to start something, I'm sorry
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cstehansen wrote: »I have done keto quite a bit over the years and the only time I ever managed to consistently lose after the initial water weight loss, was when I actually tracked my macros. I always followed the OKL chart (google it). I think even though I was eating less due to ketosis, I was still eating too much fat and that was pushing me over my calories
Hmmmm, it suggests eating less fat than protein? I thought this was bad? I'm 5'7" and it says 103g protein, minimum of 77g fat.
Protein is a funny topic. There is a lot of variability. Unfortunately, with that there is a lot of conflict within the keto community.
IMHO, we need to stop the infighting on this topic and understand that depending on factors such as level of activity, insulin resistance, genetics, etc., the amount of protein one can consume and remain ketogenic will vary.
There is a bare minimum that is needed. Even that amount can be debated. I tend to look at the arguments that have scientific studies to back them up. The lowest amount seems to be about 0.75 g per kg of lean body mass for someone who basically sits on the couch all day with little to no activity.
Phinney and Volek recommend between 1.5-2 grams per kg of ideal body weight.
Those factors mentioned above affect how your body will treat protein above what you need. Those who are extremely IR are more likely to convert that protein into glucose via gluconeogenesis. Those who are healthy metabolically and very active are less likely to do so until much higher levels are consumed.
To truly know what is best for you, you would need to get a blood ketone meter or a breath ketone meter (urine strips are not reliable) to measure your level of ketosis and do your own n=1 experiment to see how different levels of protein affect you. Some use BG readings, but that will not tell the whole story because protein will convert to glucose in the blood much slower than carbs will, so it is more like getting a steady stream of low dose glucose over a longer period of time thus not giving a real spike in those BG readings. However, it could be preventing you from getting into ketosis which is why the ketones have to be measured to know for sure.
Again, IMHO, the OKL chart may very well be a good one to use for those who are metabolically healthy, but if one is IR, I think there is a good chance the protein may be too high depending on your level of IR.
We in the keto community need to stop doing what those in the SAD community do, which is claim that if a certain thing works for me, then it must work for everyone exactly the same way and if it doesn't then that other person must be doing it wrong.
Okey dokey. I didn't realise this was a cause of debate, I thought the whole gluconeogenesis was a set-in-stone fact kind of thing. Hence the high-fat part. Plus my step-mother-in-law hit the roof when I said I was doing low-carb because she has poly-cystic kidneys and started going on about too much protein is bad for your kidneys etc etc.
Has this been put into a sticky at the top of the page? I don't remember reading about it, otherwise I would have accepted the chart and moved on. I was more concerned than wanted to start something, I'm sorry
No apology necessary. If you look through the older threads, you will just see this topic come up over and over again. You will see it on keto FB pages and elsewhere. I was just trying to avoid having this turn into one of "those" debates.
As for the protein damaging the kidneys, the research shows that if your kidneys are healthy, then excess protein does not damage them. The fact that protein is excreted through kidneys that are damaged has led to some assumptions which have not been able to be proved scientifically. I would put this in the same camp as those who said cholesterol build up in your arteries gives you a heart attack, therefore eating cholesterol will give you a heart attack. The logic, on the surface, sounds good. The problem is the reality does not match up.
Damaged kidneys can show improvement on a keto diet, though. This has been shown scientifically. It would take me a while to find this since my research catalog is quite large and unorganized and I did not keep copies of everything. I also don't recall if they specified the protein amounts in the study.0 -
cstehansen wrote: »cstehansen wrote: »I have done keto quite a bit over the years and the only time I ever managed to consistently lose after the initial water weight loss, was when I actually tracked my macros. I always followed the OKL chart (google it). I think even though I was eating less due to ketosis, I was still eating too much fat and that was pushing me over my calories
Hmmmm, it suggests eating less fat than protein? I thought this was bad? I'm 5'7" and it says 103g protein, minimum of 77g fat.
Protein is a funny topic. There is a lot of variability. Unfortunately, with that there is a lot of conflict within the keto community.
IMHO, we need to stop the infighting on this topic and understand that depending on factors such as level of activity, insulin resistance, genetics, etc., the amount of protein one can consume and remain ketogenic will vary.
There is a bare minimum that is needed. Even that amount can be debated. I tend to look at the arguments that have scientific studies to back them up. The lowest amount seems to be about 0.75 g per kg of lean body mass for someone who basically sits on the couch all day with little to no activity.
Phinney and Volek recommend between 1.5-2 grams per kg of ideal body weight.
Those factors mentioned above affect how your body will treat protein above what you need. Those who are extremely IR are more likely to convert that protein into glucose via gluconeogenesis. Those who are healthy metabolically and very active are less likely to do so until much higher levels are consumed.
To truly know what is best for you, you would need to get a blood ketone meter or a breath ketone meter (urine strips are not reliable) to measure your level of ketosis and do your own n=1 experiment to see how different levels of protein affect you. Some use BG readings, but that will not tell the whole story because protein will convert to glucose in the blood much slower than carbs will, so it is more like getting a steady stream of low dose glucose over a longer period of time thus not giving a real spike in those BG readings. However, it could be preventing you from getting into ketosis which is why the ketones have to be measured to know for sure.
Again, IMHO, the OKL chart may very well be a good one to use for those who are metabolically healthy, but if one is IR, I think there is a good chance the protein may be too high depending on your level of IR.
We in the keto community need to stop doing what those in the SAD community do, which is claim that if a certain thing works for me, then it must work for everyone exactly the same way and if it doesn't then that other person must be doing it wrong.
Okey dokey. I didn't realise this was a cause of debate, I thought the whole gluconeogenesis was a set-in-stone fact kind of thing. Hence the high-fat part. Plus my step-mother-in-law hit the roof when I said I was doing low-carb because she has poly-cystic kidneys and started going on about too much protein is bad for your kidneys etc etc.
Has this been put into a sticky at the top of the page? I don't remember reading about it, otherwise I would have accepted the chart and moved on. I was more concerned than wanted to start something, I'm sorry
No apology necessary. If you look through the older threads, you will just see this topic come up over and over again. You will see it on keto FB pages and elsewhere. I was just trying to avoid having this turn into one of "those" debates.
As for the protein damaging the kidneys, the research shows that if your kidneys are healthy, then excess protein does not damage them. The fact that protein is excreted through kidneys that are damaged has led to some assumptions which have not been able to be proved scientifically. I would put this in the same camp as those who said cholesterol build up in your arteries gives you a heart attack, therefore eating cholesterol will give you a heart attack. The logic, on the surface, sounds good. The problem is the reality does not match up.
Damaged kidneys can show improvement on a keto diet, though. This has been shown scientifically. It would take me a while to find this since my research catalog is quite large and unorganized and I did not keep copies of everything. I also don't recall if they specified the protein amounts in the study.
I understand your frustration with repeated debates, that's why I try to stay out the main forum. It's a shame the groups don't have a search option, it would save the same questions coming up.
Judging from her reaction to the news I don't think any research would persuade her low-carb is a good idea! But I appreciate you explaining all the same. The protein excretion was exactly what she was talking about. I guess it's the same as people blaming too much fat in diets for people being fat.1 -
cstehansen wrote: »
Damaged kidneys can show improvement on a keto diet, though. This has been shown scientifically. It would take me a while to find this since my research catalog is quite large and unorganized and I did not keep copies of everything. I also don't recall if they specified the protein amounts in the study.
FYI, Dr. Bernstein personally reversed kidney disease from mistreated T1D by switching to LC.
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The fat % of your diet comes from the fat you eat and your body fat. So if you're eating less fat the rest is taken from your fat stores, which is what you want to happen.2
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Thank you for all the advice/replies.
Sunny bunny you look fab. I did go through chemo and rads back in 2012 and i think this has definitely changed my metabolic rate as i had never had an issue with weight before treatment. I was always a steady 143lbs and at 5"9 i was happy at that weight.
Ginamisa well done for sticking it out.
I actually lost 2lb on weigh day, i also noticed that i was going over on my fat g fror the day. I have started drinking water, homalayan salt and lemon before breakfast and have dropped my calories for 1200.1
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