Bulking on beer
DopeItUp
Posts: 18,771 Member
Hello friends,
Thought I'd drop a unique question instead of the typical WHY AREN'T I LOOSING WEIGHT OMG.
A little background: as at least Sara knows, I am a big beer guy. I have made it my goal to drink 1000 unique beers over the course of 2-3 years and lose approximately 100lbs in that time. I am getting close to said goal, I am around 950 beers in and around 90lbs down. I drink an average of 500 calories worth of beer every night, which is typical of a single 22 or 25.4 ounce bottle of good craft beer.
Now, starting this fall I am planning a test bulk. I will have been in a deficit for 2.5 years at that point and I typically take a "diet break" around the thanksgiving/christmas/new years time period anyway (I have two vacations planned in that timeframe as well). I figured, why not turn it into a proper bulk. I figure if I start my reverse dieting around October I will be at my beginning bulk calories by the time my first vacation hits in November. The resulting fat gain will hopefully not be as much as normal since the jump in calories from normal- to vacation-levels won't be so big of a leap. Make sense? I'll resume my cut at the start of 2014, so probably 12 weeks of actual bulking.
Long story short, any thoughts or research or ideas around beer drinking while bulking? I have long followed the idea that beer calories are calories like any other (although mostly devoid of nutrition, outside of the carb levels in your typical beer). It has served me well during the last 2+ years. Does it work the same way in a bulk? Will you build muscle mass with beer/alcohol calories factored in? My instinct tells me yes, calories are calories. But I can't find any real information about it to confirm my theory. I figured one or both of you might have at least an educated guess. A secondary question to this, if you feel my beer intake will hurt my bulk, what days would you recommend avoiding beer for optimum results? Lifting days? The day AFTER lifting (muscle being built on rest days)? I typically do my lifting M/W/F from around 9PM-11PM and would drink my beer immediately afterwards, if that schedule helps answer the question. My gut tells me if I have to avoid beer, it would probably be immediately post-workout, and drink at night on my rest day (which would be effectively 24hrs after my actual workout).
Other details: for macros, I will be sticking close to my current gameplan which is 175-200g of protein a day (current LBM is around 175lbs). Fat is currently 60-75g a day but will probably be closer to 100 during my bulk. Rest will be from carbs, which are currently fairly low (100-150 a day typically, a little higher on lifting days), as obviously I will want to increase my lifts significantly during my bulk as well.
Sincerely yours,
Dope
Thought I'd drop a unique question instead of the typical WHY AREN'T I LOOSING WEIGHT OMG.
A little background: as at least Sara knows, I am a big beer guy. I have made it my goal to drink 1000 unique beers over the course of 2-3 years and lose approximately 100lbs in that time. I am getting close to said goal, I am around 950 beers in and around 90lbs down. I drink an average of 500 calories worth of beer every night, which is typical of a single 22 or 25.4 ounce bottle of good craft beer.
Now, starting this fall I am planning a test bulk. I will have been in a deficit for 2.5 years at that point and I typically take a "diet break" around the thanksgiving/christmas/new years time period anyway (I have two vacations planned in that timeframe as well). I figured, why not turn it into a proper bulk. I figure if I start my reverse dieting around October I will be at my beginning bulk calories by the time my first vacation hits in November. The resulting fat gain will hopefully not be as much as normal since the jump in calories from normal- to vacation-levels won't be so big of a leap. Make sense? I'll resume my cut at the start of 2014, so probably 12 weeks of actual bulking.
Long story short, any thoughts or research or ideas around beer drinking while bulking? I have long followed the idea that beer calories are calories like any other (although mostly devoid of nutrition, outside of the carb levels in your typical beer). It has served me well during the last 2+ years. Does it work the same way in a bulk? Will you build muscle mass with beer/alcohol calories factored in? My instinct tells me yes, calories are calories. But I can't find any real information about it to confirm my theory. I figured one or both of you might have at least an educated guess. A secondary question to this, if you feel my beer intake will hurt my bulk, what days would you recommend avoiding beer for optimum results? Lifting days? The day AFTER lifting (muscle being built on rest days)? I typically do my lifting M/W/F from around 9PM-11PM and would drink my beer immediately afterwards, if that schedule helps answer the question. My gut tells me if I have to avoid beer, it would probably be immediately post-workout, and drink at night on my rest day (which would be effectively 24hrs after my actual workout).
Other details: for macros, I will be sticking close to my current gameplan which is 175-200g of protein a day (current LBM is around 175lbs). Fat is currently 60-75g a day but will probably be closer to 100 during my bulk. Rest will be from carbs, which are currently fairly low (100-150 a day typically, a little higher on lifting days), as obviously I will want to increase my lifts significantly during my bulk as well.
Sincerely yours,
Dope
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Replies
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Berkhan has done the research on muscle growth and drinking:
http://www.leangains.com/2010/07/truth-about-alcohol-fat-loss-and-muscle.html
That's what I would use as as starting point, anyway. He is the most alcohol-friendly of all the respectable sources in the reality-based community.0 -
Tagging and kind of lolling0
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Old one by Alan Aragon: http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_article/sex_news_sports_funny/a_muscleheads_guide_to_alcohol_10
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In the context of this particular topic...
"Alcohol Content of Standard Drink Servings
• 12 ounces beer = 153 calories and 13.9 grams alcohol
• 12 ounces light beer = 103 calories and 11 grams alcohol"
That kind of thing always makes me laugh. The kind of beer I drink ranges from 3% alcohol and pretty much negligible carb content for a sour to 16% for an Eisbock. There's beer and there's beer.0 -
I read a study some time ago (I can't remember where it was or exactly when) that showed some positive recovery benefits from drinking beer after endurance intensive cardio - like marathons and *kitten*. Something about the sugars/carbs/whatevs in beer being good for recovery from that type of stuff. I don't know how or if that would correlate with recovery from lifting but I like to think it would probably correlate perfectly and I have on occassion had an Avery The Czar or other big Imperial Stout for a post workout recovery drink.0
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I read a study some time ago (I can't remember where it was or exactly when) that showed some positive recovery benefits from drinking beer after endurance intensive cardio - like marathons and *kitten*. Something about the sugars/carbs/whatevs in beer being good for recovery from that type of stuff. I don't know how or if that would correlate with recovery from lifting but I like to think it would probably correlate perfectly and I have on occassion had an Avery The Czar or other big Imperial Stout for a post workout recovery drink.
This is what I have been missing, my post workout recovery beer. Must start this plan!!
OH, and in for science (and beer)!!!0 -
Workout + Beer = Goodness?
I'm in.0 -
Workout + Beer = Goodness!!!
I'm in.
FIFY0 -
I clicked on this because......not sure if serious or really going to bulk on beer. :laugh:
Now I am simply curious to read the responses :laugh:0 -
Berkhan has done the research on muscle growth and drinking:
http://www.leangains.com/2010/07/truth-about-alcohol-fat-loss-and-muscle.html
That's what I would use as as starting point, anyway. He is the most alcohol-friendly of all the respectable sources in the reality-based community.
Ahh yes, thank you for that. I had read that a few years ago (probably when it was posted). He doesn't have anything specific about bulking + alcohol but it sounds like there's little research on that particular topic. Sounds like there isn't much of a detriment as long as intake levels are kept reasonable (which is a debatable term).Tagging and kind of lolling
Are you laughing at me? WHY ARE PEOPLE SO MEAN ON THESE FORUMS. I WANT MY MONEY BACK.
In the context of this particular topic...
"Alcohol Content of Standard Drink Servings
• 12 ounces beer = 153 calories and 13.9 grams alcohol
• 12 ounces light beer = 103 calories and 11 grams alcohol"
That kind of thing always makes me laugh. The kind of beer I drink ranges from 3% alcohol and pretty much negligible carb content for a sour to 16% for an Eisbock. There's beer and there's beer.
Agreed, have to sorta "convert" over to craft beer. That's why I listed an average intake of 500 calories a day, which is roughly a bomber of 9% beer. Sometimes it's more, sometimes it's less (but usually very close, any more than that and I start getting a buzz). But realistically that's 3-4 bud lights a night.I clicked on this because......not sure if serious or really going to bulk on beer. :laugh:
Now I am simply curious to read the responses :laugh:
I am definitely serious, provided there isn't any reputable research or thoughts behind why I shouldn't at least attempt it. You wouldn't believe the amount of people that are amazed that you can drop body fat while still drinking beer every night. Just look at the forums sometime. Realistically I will probably be bulking at close to 3500 calories a day, 500 of which will be beer (not even 15% of overall intake). I'm DOUBTING it will be a problem but I wanted to discuss with some brainiacs (and possibly some like-minded beer geeks)
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You wouldn't believe the amount of people that are amazed that you can drop body fat while still drinking beer every night.
I believe you. I kept really accurate intake of the three macros and alcohol(not just beer) over a four-five month period. I averaged around 550 cals from alcohol daily. Total daily cals were around 2800. This was while lifting 3-4 times/week.
Not a whole lot of weight loss, but could tell a difference in body fat and the way clothes fit.0 -
I clicked on this because......not sure if serious or really going to bulk on beer. :laugh:
Now I am simply curious to read the responses :laugh:
I am definitely serious, provided there isn't any reputable research or thoughts behind why I shouldn't at least attempt it. You wouldn't believe the amount of people that are amazed that you can drop body fat while still drinking beer every night. Just look at the forums sometime. Realistically I will probably be bulking at close to 3500 calories a day, 500 of which will be beer (not even 15% of overall intake). I'm DOUBTING it will be a problem but I wanted to discuss with some brainiacs (and possibly some like-minded beer geeks)
:drinker: :drinker: :drinker:0 -
I am definitely serious, provided there isn't any reputable research or thoughts behind why I shouldn't at least attempt it. You wouldn't believe the amount of people that are amazed that you can drop body fat while still drinking beer every night. Just look at the forums sometime. Realistically I will probably be bulking at close to 3500 calories a day, 500 of which will be beer (not even 15% of overall intake). I'm DOUBTING it will be a problem but I wanted to discuss with some brainiacs (and possibly some like-minded beer geeks)
People get up in arms about the idea of losing or maintaining weight while eating ice-cream, too.
Beer gets a bad rap for mysterious reasons. The "beer gut" phenomenon is a misnomer--sure, if you sit on a bar stool 6 hours a night and then eat a diet that consists of unlimited plates of breaded mozzarella sticks, you'll get one. But if you approach drinking with moderation, like everything else you consume, then I see no reason to worry about it. Ice cream for some, beer for others.0 -
I am definitely serious, provided there isn't any reputable research or thoughts behind why I shouldn't at least attempt it. You wouldn't believe the amount of people that are amazed that you can drop body fat while still drinking beer every night. Just look at the forums sometime. Realistically I will probably be bulking at close to 3500 calories a day, 500 of which will be beer (not even 15% of overall intake). I'm DOUBTING it will be a problem but I wanted to discuss with some brainiacs (and possibly some like-minded beer geeks)
People get up in arms about the idea of losing or maintaining weight while eating ice-cream, too.
Beer gets a bad rap for mysterious reasons. The "beer gut" phenomenon is a misnomer--sure, if you sit on a bar stool 6 hours a night and then eat a diet that consists of unlimited plates of breaded mozzarella sticks, you'll get one. But if you approach drinking with moderation, like everything else you consume, then I see no reason to worry about it. Ice cream for some, beer for others.
I hate beer (sorry) but, love ice cream.0 -
Beer and recovery:
http://www.beerandhealth.eu/php/speakers.php?doc_id=11
Findings: better than water or Gatorade for recovery after a long cardio session. Strength training wasn't studied, but due to the minimal protein in beer I'd assume it shouldn't replace your chocolate milk. It probably could be drunk in conjunction with the chocolate milk, but I suspect that would ruin a good beer.
A big concern about consuming (too much) alcohol while training is dehydration. Can't find the source, but I read somewhere that as long as the ABV is less than 10% and amounts consumed are moderate (2-3 drinks), you're not going to experience noticeable dehydration effects.
I vote beer.0 -
Beer and recovery:
http://www.beerandhealth.eu/php/speakers.php?doc_id=11
Findings: better than water or Gatorade for recovery after a long cardio session. Strength training wasn't studied, but due to the minimal protein in beer I'd assume it shouldn't replace your chocolate milk. It probably could be drunk in conjunction with the chocolate milk, but I suspect that would ruin a good beer.
A big concern about consuming (too much) alcohol while training is dehydration. Can't find the source, but I read somewhere that as long as the ABV is less than 10% and amounts consumed are moderate (2-3 drinks), you're not going to experience noticeable dehydration effects.
I vote beer.
I think the answer is obvious.
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People get up in arms about the idea of losing or maintaining weight while eating ice-cream, too.
Beer gets a bad rap for mysterious reasons. The "beer gut" phenomenon is a misnomer--sure, if you sit on a bar stool 6 hours a night and then eat a diet that consists of unlimited plates of breaded mozzarella sticks, you'll get one. But if you approach drinking with moderation, like everything else you consume, then I see no reason to worry about it. Ice cream for some, beer for others.
Or both!
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I am definitely serious, provided there isn't any reputable research or thoughts behind why I shouldn't at least attempt it. You wouldn't believe the amount of people that are amazed that you can drop body fat while still drinking beer every night. Just look at the forums sometime. Realistically I will probably be bulking at close to 3500 calories a day, 500 of which will be beer (not even 15% of overall intake). I'm DOUBTING it will be a problem but I wanted to discuss with some brainiacs (and possibly some like-minded beer geeks)
Speaking as a like-minded beer geek and not a brainiac I would think as long as you're hitting all your other macros grabbing a beer on top of them shouldn't affect you adversely. To paraphrase a wise person - you don't get extra credit for eating certain things once you've gotten what you need (or something).0 -
Not sure but it is a book that needs to be written. Complete with 15 beer/protein shakes recipes, with beer battered onion rings and beer cheese dip.0
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Beer and recovery:
http://www.beerandhealth.eu/php/speakers.php?doc_id=11
Findings: better than water or Gatorade for recovery after a long cardio session. Strength training wasn't studied, but due to the minimal protein in beer I'd assume it shouldn't replace your chocolate milk. It probably could be drunk in conjunction with the chocolate milk, but I suspect that would ruin a good beer.
A big concern about consuming (too much) alcohol while training is dehydration. Can't find the source, but I read somewhere that as long as the ABV is less than 10% and amounts consumed are moderate (2-3 drinks), you're not going to experience noticeable dehydration effects.
I vote beer.
I think the answer is obvious.
Just had one of those recently, it was pretty good. This is my favorite chocolate milk stout though:
Local brewery too.0 -
A big concern about consuming (too much) alcohol while training is dehydration. Can't find the source, but I read somewhere that as long as the ABV is less than 10% and amounts consumed are moderate (2-3 drinks), you're not going to experience noticeable dehydration effects.
Good point. I am extremely cognizant of my hydration levels, especially around lifting. I drink water before, during and after my workouts. My average daily water intake is about 1.25 gallons on lifting days. I am a big drinker in general (not just beer).
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Chocolate Beer? How about Chocolate and Peanut Butter ...
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Chocolate Beer? How about Chocolate and Peanut Butter ...
You should totally send me some. I'd love to try that.0 -
Chocolate Beer? How about Chocolate and Peanut Butter ...
If there was a drooling smiley....I would add it now because that sounds fantastic. My love for chocolate, peanut butter and beer are rolled into one? Sweet baby jesus is right.0 -
Do you think I could fake that if I mixed a scoop of Trutein Chocolate Peanut Butter Cup into a pint of Guinness?
brb, trying0 -
Please report back results. Arnold used to use bourbon to mix up his protein shakes.0
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Please report back results. Arnold used to use bourbon to mix up his protein shakes.
A bourbon protein shake actually sounds yummy. Or rum.0 -
Beer and recovery:
http://www.beerandhealth.eu/php/speakers.php?doc_id=11
Findings: better than water or Gatorade for recovery after a long cardio session. Strength training wasn't studied, but due to the minimal protein in beer I'd assume it shouldn't replace your chocolate milk. It probably could be drunk in conjunction with the chocolate milk, but I suspect that would ruin a good beer.
A big concern about consuming (too much) alcohol while training is dehydration. Can't find the source, but I read somewhere that as long as the ABV is less than 10% and amounts consumed are moderate (2-3 drinks), you're not going to experience noticeable dehydration effects.
I vote beer.
This one maybe - but this is re drinking alcohol after.
http://jap.physiology.org/content/83/4/1152.abstract?
“There appears to be no difference in recovery from dehydration whether the rehydration beverage is alcohol free or contains up to 2% alcohol, but drinks containing 4% alcohol tend to delay the recovery process.”0 -
Beer and recovery:
http://www.beerandhealth.eu/php/speakers.php?doc_id=11
Findings: better than water or Gatorade for recovery after a long cardio session. Strength training wasn't studied, but due to the minimal protein in beer I'd assume it shouldn't replace your chocolate milk. It probably could be drunk in conjunction with the chocolate milk, but I suspect that would ruin a good beer.
A big concern about consuming (too much) alcohol while training is dehydration. Can't find the source, but I read somewhere that as long as the ABV is less than 10% and amounts consumed are moderate (2-3 drinks), you're not going to experience noticeable dehydration effects.
I vote beer.
This one maybe - but this is re drinking alcohol after.
http://jap.physiology.org/content/83/4/1152.abstract?
“There appears to be no difference in recovery from dehydration whether the rehydration beverage is alcohol free or contains up to 2% alcohol, but drinks containing 4% alcohol tend to delay the recovery process.”
Geez Sara, wtf is wrong with you? We had the answer we wanted, and you had to interject with some less than favourable science?! Gaawd. :laugh:0 -
Beer and recovery:
http://www.beerandhealth.eu/php/speakers.php?doc_id=11
Findings: better than water or Gatorade for recovery after a long cardio session. Strength training wasn't studied, but due to the minimal protein in beer I'd assume it shouldn't replace your chocolate milk. It probably could be drunk in conjunction with the chocolate milk, but I suspect that would ruin a good beer.
A big concern about consuming (too much) alcohol while training is dehydration. Can't find the source, but I read somewhere that as long as the ABV is less than 10% and amounts consumed are moderate (2-3 drinks), you're not going to experience noticeable dehydration effects.
I vote beer.
This one maybe - but this is re drinking alcohol after.
http://jap.physiology.org/content/83/4/1152.abstract?
“There appears to be no difference in recovery from dehydration whether the rehydration beverage is alcohol free or contains up to 2% alcohol, but drinks containing 4% alcohol tend to delay the recovery process.”
Geez Sara, wtf is wrong with you? We had the answer we wanted, and you had to interject with some less than favourable science?! Gaawd. :laugh:
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This discussion has been closed.