Might have to cancle my Gastric Sleeve surgery
Replies
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When looking at stats, you have to look at trends. Of course there is waste, however, the percentage of waste is going to be fairly consistent, so charts like this one still paint a true picture. So when the government tells people to eat less red meat, they clearly are and as a result are eating those wonderful grains and starches and getting obese and diabetic.
@Gallowmere1984 - tell me you can manipulate it with activity now. Then when you hit your 50's, tell me if you can. Look at Tim Noakes and others who were high endurance athletes who ended up diabetic.
There is a minority of the population who will always be able to do so. There is another minority of the population who can do it for a time (I was in that group until mid 40's), then there is the majority who will be screwed.4 -
cstehansen wrote: »
When looking at stats, you have to look at trends. Of course there is waste, however, the percentage of waste is going to be fairly consistent, so charts like this one still paint a true picture. So when the government tells people to eat less red meat, they clearly are and as a result are eating those wonderful grains and starches and getting obese and diabetic.
@Gallowmere1984 - tell me you can manipulate it with activity now. Then when you hit your 50's, tell me if you can. Look at Tim Noakes and others who were high endurance athletes who ended up diabetic.
There is a minority of the population who will always be able to do so. There is another minority of the population who can do it for a time (I was in that group until mid 40's), then there is the majority who will be screwed.
The aging thing is a valid point, and has a lot to do with declining hormone levels. It's been shown repeatedly thay TRT can offset most of those problems, especially in men, but even in women in lower dosages (think typical Anavar dosages). If we can get society to grt over this stupid "zomg steroids is the devil" crap, and use them more often in clinical dosages (not Mr. Olympia permablast regimens), we'll see a lot of that stuff start to level off a bit.1 -
Gallowmere1984 wrote: »cstehansen wrote: »
When looking at stats, you have to look at trends. Of course there is waste, however, the percentage of waste is going to be fairly consistent, so charts like this one still paint a true picture. So when the government tells people to eat less red meat, they clearly are and as a result are eating those wonderful grains and starches and getting obese and diabetic.
@Gallowmere1984 - tell me you can manipulate it with activity now. Then when you hit your 50's, tell me if you can. Look at Tim Noakes and others who were high endurance athletes who ended up diabetic.
There is a minority of the population who will always be able to do so. There is another minority of the population who can do it for a time (I was in that group until mid 40's), then there is the majority who will be screwed.
The aging thing is a valid point, and has a lot to do with declining hormone levels. It's been shown repeatedly thay TRT can offset most of those problems, especially in men, but even in women in lower dosages (think typical Anavar dosages). If we can get society to grt over this stupid "zomg steroids is the devil" crap, and use them more often in clinical dosages (not Mr. Olympia permablast regimens), we'll see a lot of that stuff start to level off a bit.
@Gallowmere1984 - have you ever done research in this arena - the low T factor, particularly for women? I ask specifically because I just had a set of concerning lab results come back that my "new" specialist who was primarily concerned with throwing weight loss drugs at me glossed over and ignored completely, despite the fact that she's the one who ordered the test.
Total Testosterone - 13.5 ng/dL - Range is listed as 9-55 ng/dL
Free Testosterone - 0.5 pg/mL - Range is listed as 1.1-5.8 pg/mL (flagged as low)
SHBG (Sex Hormone Binding Globulin) - 265.7 NMOL/L - Range is listed as 27.8-146.0 NMOL/L (flagged as high)
My understanding is that some doctors believe that there is no level of Free T that is too low for women, which seems ABSOLUTELY INSANE to me... I do take birth control pills, which can lower levels, but so many of the low T symptoms are EXACTLY THE SAME AS THYROID SYMPTOMS! Ugh. And I still have most of those, especially the overlapping ones, to some degree or other. I think some of the most concerning are the losses in bone mass and muscle mass. I've been slowly losing strength in the last 5+ years, and my bone mass is low enough that I talked my doc into sending me for a DEXA scan, despite being only 41. I have a number of other overlapping ones, but these (including grip strength/handshake) plus inability to lose weight, pervasive tiredness despite treating thyroid issues and anemia, major concentration issues, massive hair loss (still, despite NO weight loss), etc. have been enough that I keep searching, because I know something still isn't right.
My understanding of the mechanism above is that the SHBG being that high essentially binds up all the T so I can't use it... The Total T number hasn't raised red flags, as it by itself doesn't show problems... Any ideas?
P.S. I do have PCOS, which can have too much T, but in all my tests for Total T have always been at the low side, in the 20's...so this is a significant drop. Highest was a 50, when I was transitioning off keto, but that test really seems to have been a fluke compared to all my other results... Last April (2016), my labs showed that I wasn't anywhere close to perimenopause, and October 2016 tests indicated by lab numbers alone that I was the equivalent of deep in menopause. Tests were not run this April, 2017, because we delayed the tests due to changing thyroid meds...but I believe all that is on the labs I'm supposed to do this week.
@Dragonwolf - Is this something you've studied?0 -
Honestly, what little I know on this topic in women has come from compilation work from Lyle McDonald. He's actually in the process of writing a book specifically for women right now, due to a lot of the unique challenges that they face.
Let's just put it in very simple terms for the moment until I have time to dig up some sources: what happens to women who go on most forms of birth control? They get fat, zitty, moody, etc. What does birth control do to hormone levels? Shoots free T in the nuts, and jacks up estradiol levels. Yeah, exactly.0 -
Gallowmere1984 wrote: »Honestly, what little I know on this topic in women has come from compilation work from Lyle McDonald. He's actually in the process of writing a book specifically for women right now, due to a lot of the unique challenges that they face.
Let's just put it in very simple terms for the moment until I have time to dig up some sources: what happens to women who go on most forms of birth control? They get fat, zitty, moody, etc. What does birth control do to hormone levels? Shoots free T in the nuts, and jacks up estradiol levels. Yeah, exactly.
I guess that is what happens to most. Opposite for me. I didn't gain specifically with my pill, I dropped 90% of any acne, leveled my moods out COMPLETELY - no more psycho week of the month! My (natural) estradiol levels went to the toilet though it's hard to tell from the result exactly what happened and when - I've been on this dose like 3-4 years. October 2014 - was 63, April 2016 was 211, October 2016 was <15.... So WTF? Test to be retested this week... T was already low...mostly unchanged until recent test gave context.
I don't even know what they can test for for the BCP estradiol levels - a standard test won't show the BCP test levels in it - I know, I asked...
April 2015, my Free T was 0.5. June 2017, was still 0.5. Difference was in June they ran that SHBG test, too...
So wait, what is the difference between Testosterone, Total Testosterone, and Free. Free and total I get. What is the unlabeled one?
Unlabeled was 21, 20, 50 (oops, duplicated this 50 from below result thinking it was the same?)
Total was n/a, 10, 50 for same dates?
Free was n/a 0.5, n/a
How can a 10 on one test, same increment of measurement be a 21 or so on another test?0 -
Total test is the total amount in your system. Free test is what is actually available and not being bound up by SHBG. Controlling SHBG is something that juicers really have to worry about, because as you inject test, your body will create SHBG in an attempt to bring the free levels back to the range that it considers normal.
Essentially, if it's not free test, it means *kitten* all. Some women have high AF total T, but actual zero free, due to their bodies tying it all up with SHBG.
Now, with you having PCOS, it doesn't shock me that BC had the opposite effect. Essentially, pcos has some nasty androgenic tendencies, so trying to counter that via introduction of female hormones makes sense. Playing with hormones in either direction is a very delicate balancing act. There's a reason that steroid users actually spend about 5+ times as much on bloods as they do on the actual gear. You optimally need four sets of bloods just for one 12 week cycle.1 -
It's kind of ironic. I always felt like I had higher T due to --- drive and various things. With PCOS, they thought I'd have higher T. All the Spirolactone or whatever did was cause me massive dehydration. My body likes to be obstinate. It will choose roughly 25-50% of the symptoms used to standard diagnosis of ANYTHING and it just skips them. I'll have the less likely ones - or have the opposite of the normal ones. I'm just going to go ahead and donate my body to science, now, I think. Maybe if they sliced me up now, it could help others?0
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No, I understood the Free versus Total difference.
I had a test called "Testosterone" in my results at the same time I had a test called "Free Testosterone" and the numbers were difference. Actually, none of them were at the same time, looking at it more closely. All off my 6 months. Maybe just 2 different panel titles...
What would cause it to go from 20 to 50 in six months, then 50 to 13.5 in a year?0 -
KnitOrMiss wrote: »No, I understood the Free versus Total difference.
I had a test called "Testosterone" in my results at the same time I had a test called "Free Testosterone" and the numbers were difference. Actually, none of them were at the same time, looking at it more closely. All off my 6 months. Maybe just 2 different panel titles...
What would cause it to go from 20 to 50 in six months, then 50 to 13.5 in a year?
I honestly do not know enough about the treatments they have given you to be able to answer that.
Also, if a test is just labeled "Testosterone", it's total, not free.0 -
Gallowmere1984 wrote: »KnitOrMiss wrote: »No, I understood the Free versus Total difference.
I had a test called "Testosterone" in my results at the same time I had a test called "Free Testosterone" and the numbers were difference. Actually, none of them were at the same time, looking at it more closely. All off my 6 months. Maybe just 2 different panel titles...
What would cause it to go from 20 to 50 in six months, then 50 to 13.5 in a year?
I honestly do not know enough about the treatments they have given you to be able to answer that.
Also, if a test is just labeled "Testosterone", it's total, not free.
Me either, especially considering that I was unaware of anything I was doing at the time (mainly just supps changing, no major med changes) that should have affected my hormones...0 -
KnitOrMiss wrote: »Gallowmere1984 wrote: »KnitOrMiss wrote: »No, I understood the Free versus Total difference.
I had a test called "Testosterone" in my results at the same time I had a test called "Free Testosterone" and the numbers were difference. Actually, none of them were at the same time, looking at it more closely. All off my 6 months. Maybe just 2 different panel titles...
What would cause it to go from 20 to 50 in six months, then 50 to 13.5 in a year?
I honestly do not know enough about the treatments they have given you to be able to answer that.
Also, if a test is just labeled "Testosterone", it's total, not free.
Me either, especially considering that I was unaware of anything I was doing at the time (mainly just supps changing, no major med changes) that should have affected my hormones...
That's why they get so many bloods in such a short time. You don't have to change anything for your axis to suddenly decide "*kitten* this noise, I'm headed back for baseline". You can be four weeks into a cycle and everything is cruising as expected. Suddenly in week eight your body flips the script and you start growing bitchtits (or a beard in the case of women). Granted, clinical dosages never cause such swing in such a short period of time, but you're not describing a short period of time, or an extremely radical shift.1 -
Gallowmere1984 wrote: »KnitOrMiss wrote: »Gallowmere1984 wrote: »KnitOrMiss wrote: »No, I understood the Free versus Total difference.
I had a test called "Testosterone" in my results at the same time I had a test called "Free Testosterone" and the numbers were difference. Actually, none of them were at the same time, looking at it more closely. All off my 6 months. Maybe just 2 different panel titles...
What would cause it to go from 20 to 50 in six months, then 50 to 13.5 in a year?
I honestly do not know enough about the treatments they have given you to be able to answer that.
Also, if a test is just labeled "Testosterone", it's total, not free.
Me either, especially considering that I was unaware of anything I was doing at the time (mainly just supps changing, no major med changes) that should have affected my hormones...
That's why they get so many bloods in such a short time. You don't have to change anything for your axis to suddenly decide "*kitten* this noise, I'm headed back for baseline". You can be four weeks into a cycle and everything is cruising as expected. Suddenly in week eight your body flips the script and you start growing bitchtits (or a beard in the case of women). Granted, clinical dosages never cause such swing in such a short period of time, but you're not describing a short period of time, or an extremely radical shift.
HA!
I'm also not taking steroids! Only hormone stuff is the BCP...0 -
KnitOrMiss wrote: »Gallowmere1984 wrote: »KnitOrMiss wrote: »Gallowmere1984 wrote: »KnitOrMiss wrote: »No, I understood the Free versus Total difference.
I had a test called "Testosterone" in my results at the same time I had a test called "Free Testosterone" and the numbers were difference. Actually, none of them were at the same time, looking at it more closely. All off my 6 months. Maybe just 2 different panel titles...
What would cause it to go from 20 to 50 in six months, then 50 to 13.5 in a year?
I honestly do not know enough about the treatments they have given you to be able to answer that.
Also, if a test is just labeled "Testosterone", it's total, not free.
Me either, especially considering that I was unaware of anything I was doing at the time (mainly just supps changing, no major med changes) that should have affected my hormones...
That's why they get so many bloods in such a short time. You don't have to change anything for your axis to suddenly decide "*kitten* this noise, I'm headed back for baseline". You can be four weeks into a cycle and everything is cruising as expected. Suddenly in week eight your body flips the script and you start growing bitchtits (or a beard in the case of women). Granted, clinical dosages never cause such swing in such a short period of time, but you're not describing a short period of time, or an extremely radical shift.
HA!
I'm also not taking steroids! Only hormone stuff is the BCP...
It's still a steroid. That's one area where people tend to get this stuff twisted.
ste·roid
ˈsterˌoid,ˈstirˌoid/
nounBIOCHEMISTRY
any of a large class of organic compounds with a characteristic molecular structure containing four rings of carbon atoms (three six-membered and one five). They include many hormones, alkaloids, and vitamins.
T3=steroid. Vitamin D=steroid. Cortisone=steroid. We could do this for a while.
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Gallowmere1984 wrote: »cstehansen wrote: »
When looking at stats, you have to look at trends. Of course there is waste, however, the percentage of waste is going to be fairly consistent, so charts like this one still paint a true picture. So when the government tells people to eat less red meat, they clearly are and as a result are eating those wonderful grains and starches and getting obese and diabetic.
@Gallowmere1984 - tell me you can manipulate it with activity now. Then when you hit your 50's, tell me if you can. Look at Tim Noakes and others who were high endurance athletes who ended up diabetic.
There is a minority of the population who will always be able to do so. There is another minority of the population who can do it for a time (I was in that group until mid 40's), then there is the majority who will be screwed.
The aging thing is a valid point, and has a lot to do with declining hormone levels. It's been shown repeatedly thay TRT can offset most of those problems, especially in men, but even in women in lower dosages (think typical Anavar dosages). If we can get society to grt over this stupid "zomg steroids is the devil" crap, and use them more often in clinical dosages (not Mr. Olympia permablast regimens), we'll see a lot of that stuff start to level off a bit.
Society is not the only problem in this regard. I have a scrip for TRT that has been unfilled for 5 months because the insurance company has said 'sure, we will allow your Dr. to prescribe that for you, but you have to pay for it all by yourself'. $800 a month for a single scrip just doesn't fit the budget... still fighting with the insurance over this one.0 -
Gallowmere1984 wrote: »cstehansen wrote: »
When looking at stats, you have to look at trends. Of course there is waste, however, the percentage of waste is going to be fairly consistent, so charts like this one still paint a true picture. So when the government tells people to eat less red meat, they clearly are and as a result are eating those wonderful grains and starches and getting obese and diabetic.
@Gallowmere1984 - tell me you can manipulate it with activity now. Then when you hit your 50's, tell me if you can. Look at Tim Noakes and others who were high endurance athletes who ended up diabetic.
There is a minority of the population who will always be able to do so. There is another minority of the population who can do it for a time (I was in that group until mid 40's), then there is the majority who will be screwed.
The aging thing is a valid point, and has a lot to do with declining hormone levels. It's been shown repeatedly thay TRT can offset most of those problems, especially in men, but even in women in lower dosages (think typical Anavar dosages). If we can get society to grt over this stupid "zomg steroids is the devil" crap, and use them more often in clinical dosages (not Mr. Olympia permablast regimens), we'll see a lot of that stuff start to level off a bit.
Society is not the only problem in this regard. I have a scrip for TRT that has been unfilled for 5 months because the insurance company has said 'sure, we will allow your Dr. to prescribe that for you, but you have to pay for it all by yourself'. $800 a month for a single scrip just doesn't fit the budget... still fighting with the insurance over this one.
And this is why people resort to the black market, even when they qualify for legal stuff. For the low dose that TRT involves, you can get a multimonth supply from a vouched source for like $150. It doesn't get expensive until you're hitting into the 600mg/week range, and even that's not terrible.0 -
I read this morning low testosterone increase male risks from all cauises..0
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GaleHawkins wrote: »I read this morning low testosterone increase male risks from all cauises..
I'm definitely becoming more inclined to believe that there's more to that than just correlation. The fact that offsetting the decline (within reason) with Test-Enth or Cyp seems to reverse a lot of the health problems caused by the aging process definitely supports it. Obviously, pinning won't make you immortal, but it definitely appears to make that extra time suck a lot less.0 -
I had the same results as you @KnitOrMiss with non-existent free T. Despite having every possible classic symptom, several doctors said "we do not treat women for that" and even tried to push BC on me. I couldnt understand how giving me more of the two hormones I had enough of already and none of the one I didnt could help and refused. I read everything I could about how to "naturally" boost your T in women. First thing I read said "get your vitamin D in order". Low D is part of Low T. Also lift weights, etc. It took a month or two but eventually everything got straightened out.
Then of course I hit perimenopause and the other two hormones decided to tank. Sigh.1 -
Hello OP!!
I had gastric bypass, and have regretted doing so since finding this woe! Wish I had a "do over" on that one for sure! The lifetime of malabsorption, and vitamin deficiencies will always be with me. I have to take every vitamin (a whole handful of them) two times a day (doctor ordered) just to , hopefully, absorb enough to maintain vital body functions.
You have a huge decision ahead! I'm sure you will do what is best for you! Congratulations on your success thus far!! Wonderful inspiration!1 -
Hello OP!!
I had gastric bypass, and have regretted doing so since finding this woe! Wish I had a "do over" on that one for sure! The lifetime of malabsorption, and vitamin deficiencies will always be with me. I have to take every vitamin (a whole handful of them) two times a day (doctor ordered) just to , hopefully, absorb enough to maintain vital body functions.
You have a huge decision ahead! I'm sure you will do what is best for you! Congratulations on your success thus far!! Wonderful inspiration!
Have you thought about/tried other forms of taking vitamins? Ones that do not rely on your intestines to absorb? For example, you can get vitamin B12 as a shot or a liquid or under your tongue dissolvable. You can find "instantized" or "ionized" vitamins that are in a power formula you mix and drink, which absorb instantly or through different mechanisms... I dont know all the science, but I do know these worked much better for me personally (I had sleeve, so not the same situation - but I have some intestine problems plus food does not break down properly in my stomach before going to intestines so not in correct format to absorb).
Examples of one brand I have used: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001FXQED8
according to the site: "ionic form (the only form that can be absorbed through both active mineral transport and passive diffusion"
May not help all vitamins, but every little bit helps.0 -
Regarding testosterone, statins have been shown to lower it. This makes sense given cholesterol is required for the production of almost all, if not all hormones. This endless push to get cholesterol lower without scientific reason is causing huge problems. Don't tell me the incidence of low T and e.d. skyrocketing at the same time statin use skyrocketed is a coincidence.2
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cstehansen wrote: »Regarding testosterone, statins have been shown to lower it. This makes sense given cholesterol is required for the production of almost all, if not all hormones. This endless push to get cholesterol lower without scientific reason is causing huge problems. Don't tell me the incidence of low T and e.d. skyrocketing at the same time statin use skyrocketed is a coincidence.
I agree 100%. I have about as much interest in statins, as I have in becoming a eunuch...and they might be related.2
This discussion has been closed.