Crash and burn
pitbullmamaliz
Posts: 303 Member
So it hasn't happened yet, but normally after a few weeks on a new diet I have a tendency to lose my mind and binge eat like 4000 calories of crap. That then sets me back for months because I feel so *kitten* about myself.
I went to a weight loss clinic this week to see what they had to say, see if they had any constructive tools I could use to work through those binge eating urges. Waste of a $20 copay. She didn't listen to a word I said, wanted me to eat 4-6 times a day to keep me from getting hungry (even though I told her I am never hungry whilst eating 2 large meals a day), even after I told her that if I eat frequently it gets me very food-fixated so all I do is think about my next meal. Twice a day? Eh, when I eat, I eat, I don't think about it. She didn't get that. Kept recommending high carb foods even though I told her I'm low carb and have no intention of changing, but then she'd say, "going lower carb is good because carbs release leptin (I think that's the one she said - that or ghrelin?) and that makes you hungry again." So stop recommending carby crap to me...???
Anyway, even though I told her I have a tendency to binge a few weeks after starting a new diet, she offered me zero tools or coping mechanisms. She was useless. Dr. Google was more informative.
So, now that I've blathered on for so long, anybody else have an urge to dive head first into a vat of carbs after starting a new eating plan? I will say I'm not hungry at all, but binging is never hunger related. I really hope that restricting them will help break that cycle. I've been staying under 50 grams of carbs since 3/9, so two weeks. Right now, I'm at the, "gee, an enormous Mexican meal with a whole basket of chips, cheese, guacamole, salsa, refried beans, and fajitas sounds really good." But it's not consuming me yet.
Have any of you had luck permitting yourself small carby indulgences? I fear they'd have to call the cops to pull me away from the chips if I tried to have just a few though. Do you try to find low carb options? Or does that just make you think of the real thing? Do you just power through and know that your body will adjust and stop craving them if you don't provide?
I'm reading (well, need to start re-reading) the Beck Diet Solution which offers cognitive behavioral skills to work through eating issues. I stalled out at the chapter telling me to find a coach/accountability buddy. I don't do well asking for help. ;-) So I'm going to start back at chapter one and just suck it up when I reach that chapter again.
That was long. Sorry! LOL
I went to a weight loss clinic this week to see what they had to say, see if they had any constructive tools I could use to work through those binge eating urges. Waste of a $20 copay. She didn't listen to a word I said, wanted me to eat 4-6 times a day to keep me from getting hungry (even though I told her I am never hungry whilst eating 2 large meals a day), even after I told her that if I eat frequently it gets me very food-fixated so all I do is think about my next meal. Twice a day? Eh, when I eat, I eat, I don't think about it. She didn't get that. Kept recommending high carb foods even though I told her I'm low carb and have no intention of changing, but then she'd say, "going lower carb is good because carbs release leptin (I think that's the one she said - that or ghrelin?) and that makes you hungry again." So stop recommending carby crap to me...???
Anyway, even though I told her I have a tendency to binge a few weeks after starting a new diet, she offered me zero tools or coping mechanisms. She was useless. Dr. Google was more informative.
So, now that I've blathered on for so long, anybody else have an urge to dive head first into a vat of carbs after starting a new eating plan? I will say I'm not hungry at all, but binging is never hunger related. I really hope that restricting them will help break that cycle. I've been staying under 50 grams of carbs since 3/9, so two weeks. Right now, I'm at the, "gee, an enormous Mexican meal with a whole basket of chips, cheese, guacamole, salsa, refried beans, and fajitas sounds really good." But it's not consuming me yet.
Have any of you had luck permitting yourself small carby indulgences? I fear they'd have to call the cops to pull me away from the chips if I tried to have just a few though. Do you try to find low carb options? Or does that just make you think of the real thing? Do you just power through and know that your body will adjust and stop craving them if you don't provide?
I'm reading (well, need to start re-reading) the Beck Diet Solution which offers cognitive behavioral skills to work through eating issues. I stalled out at the chapter telling me to find a coach/accountability buddy. I don't do well asking for help. ;-) So I'm going to start back at chapter one and just suck it up when I reach that chapter again.
That was long. Sorry! LOL
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Replies
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I regularly visit my favorite Mexican joint, unroll a burrito and eat the filing with a spoon.
Also, I totally grubbed 4000kcal on Sunday. I knew I was cheating 2 weeks in advance though, so not an impulse binge. I got back at it Monday.
You probably hit upon the biggest problem in the first paragraph of your post, I think, in that after you fall off you talk down to yourself and let that one day you feel like you failed define you, rather than defining yourself by all of the other days where you succeeded. I have that problem in many areas of life. I have a tendency to fixate on negatives and let them eat away at me.
I've found journaling is a tremendous help for such behavior. I'm able to revisit what has gone well recently, and put the negatives into perspective by looking at the mountain of positives surrounding them. I also write out all of the things that I accomplished each day onto an index card. If I'm feeling unproductive I have a box full of them, logging all of my triumphs. Thirdly, I keep a gratitude diary with an app on my phone. Each day I'll jot down 3 things I'm grateful for, however insignificant. It's hard to feel like *kitten* if I can look back at so many things that I can be thankful for and how many things at which I've won.
Does it suck to look at your food log and see a binge? Sure. Do you have to fixate on that day, or can you just hit the back button and look at the day before where you hit your macros and your kcal goal? Can you hit that back arrow once more? How about once more? How about once more? How about once more?
Eating right for one day never made anyone healthy. Eating 3 orders of french fries and a box of Twinkies before it's even noon doesn't keep you unhealthy. You just have make one good decision at a time. It doesn't matter how bad the last one was.8 -
Yep, Beck Diet Solution and CBT can help you work through your emotional issues since bingeing is not about hunger. Also a couple of my friends who lost a lot of weight are finding Kelly McGonigal helpful. Stanford Psychologist with new research. Here's her TED talk:
https://youtube.com/watch?v=RcGyVTAoXEU
You might want to get a referral to someone medically accredited who has experience with the psychology behind bingeing or other disordered eating. A weight loss clinic isn't necessarily the right place for that. Hugs!2 -
I have a huge crush on Kelly McGonigal. She's dreamy. This has nothing to do with anything.5
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Thank you both so much!Eating right for one day never made anyone healthy. Eating 3 orders of french fries and a box of Twinkies before it's even noon doesn't keep you unhealthy. You just have make one good decision at a time. It doesn't matter how bad the last one was.
This was really awesome and help put things in perspective. I also liked your other ideas such as the gratitude cards. Something physical that I can look at and hold may help.
Canadjineh, thank you for that video. I just got home from work and need to go to bed, so I'll absolutely watch it when I wake up.
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For me, the idea of restriction has driven me batty in the past, especially when it came to what I put in my pie hole lol it's part of the rebel in me. But being a T2D and accepting that I was ROBBING myself of a longer and healthier and more independent life but not watching what I ate drove me more batty! Lol it's just not worth it to me. And that's not to say I haven't had made some not so good food decisions these last 10 months but like our fellow LCers said, we just pick ourselves, and continue on... You can do this!1
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I am the guy who always won eating competitions when it was a competition of volume. I completely understand sitting and eating 40, 50 even 60 pieces of pizza at a buffet before heading to the deserts.
That said, once I changed to this WOE, I found that if I felt that coming on, one thing that worked was making a 50/50 mix of HWC and almond milk then adding a bit of MCT and drinking it. It may be 1000 calories worth of drink, but about 20-30 minutes later, the thought of eating was gone. If it was lunch time, I may end up skipping dinner. Something about that mix just makes my belly feel like there is no way anything else will fit. All cravings are gone.
My maintenance level of calories is up near 3500, so you may need to do a smaller amount of this than I do, but I was amazed the first time I tried this at just how filling all that fat from the HWC was.2 -
I truly believe it is a journey and not a destination. I have never struggled with true binge eating but I have the tendencies. Serious postpartum anxiety after the birth of my first child got me into counseling and lots of things keep me there.
Though I still have never really addressed "eating disorders" or "obesity" or "health" specifically in counseling, working on ME and my ways of thinking has helped me with my physical health.
The three most important things I've learned on my health journey are: 1) the food is always ALWAYS there. Very rarely in life do you encounter a food that if you don't eat it RIGHT NOW you'll never have the opportunity to try it/taste it/ experience it again. If you are in a foreign country in some grandma's kitchen and she's making you the most carby, sugary, delicious thing EVER and she has the only recipe and is the only one who can make it BY ALL MEANS EAT THE DAMN FOOD. However, that is a once in a life time experience. The pizza and chips I love, yeah. I can get those whenever I want. So, I need to choose each and every time: Do I want this right now? if not, I know where to find it and can get it when I do it's not going away. This has been incredibly powerful for me. I'm not saying NO to food, I'm evaluating food and why I'm eating it. And that leads me to
2) Why do I want to eat what I want to eat? Cravings aren't usually physical bodily reactions to a missing nutrient. They are psychological responses to stimuli including but not limited to: emotions, situations, past experiences, past expectations, lifestyle. So, If I can ask my self why do I want this? and honestly answer the question I can make an educated personal decision on eating the food.....or not.
and 3) focus on the now. One day at a time. What decision can I make RIGHT NOW that will positively impact my health and my health related goals? I'm not going to worry about yesterday, or tomorrow, or hell...dinner tonight. I'm going to think about this very moment in time.
As for your question about "substitutions" I do find that I want specific sensations and taste combinations and there are some very good substitutions for that. but "fake" carbs like cauliflower pizza crust doesn't do it for me. Just pisses me off and makes me angry so I pass on that. But I will sub out pork rinds for chips. Salty and crunchy is what I'm after and both chips and pork rinds provide that flavor and sensation.6 -
@mmultanen - I love that first item on your list. I'm going to save this down, reread it, and mull over it. I've not been formally diagnosed as a Binge Eater, but I am, without a doubt. I also have huge issues with food compulsions, emotional and stress eating, but I think that first technique will help my brain.
The only things that have ever helped me have been low carbing and taking aminos for support... At least then, I can hear the logical voice in my own head. Usually it's drowned out...2 -
@KnitOrMiss It's been really profound for me to start thinking this way. Most of the things I love are readily available. Even if it's "holiday" food that we only make once a year or whatever I know how to make them and we make them every year and If I chose to I could make them RIGHT NOW. But, I'm choosing not to. The power of choice and control is huge for me (I'm also rather Type A *cough*)2
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@KnitOrMiss It's been really profound for me to start thinking this way. Most of the things I love are readily available. Even if it's "holiday" food that we only make once a year or whatever I know how to make them and we make them every year and If I chose to I could make them RIGHT NOW. But, I'm choosing not to. The power of choice and control is huge for me (I'm also rather Type A *cough*)
I would love to share that part out, the #1... May I do so? And if so, how would you like to be credited? I have a LOT of friends who would benefit from hearing those words... @mmultanen3 -
D'awwwww. Yes absolutely! You can just tag me...is that a thing? do you tag in MFP? I'm bad at this. lol0
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You can't tag on walls or blogs, just in groups, but I can use your handle... Eventually, if they fix it, tags should work retro.1
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It all depends on where you are in your journey (regarding what will I eat, how much and when). I am in full ketosis. I love it! Never super hungry. I am in the stage right now where I fear carbs, because I know if I have those chips, or beans that it will knock me out of Ketosis and it will take 2-3 days to get back into it. Once I get to my ideal weight then my mindset might change, I might have a "cheat day" knowing that I will have to work hard to get back to where I was. But if you havent met your goals, TRULY want to do a low carb/ketogenic diet, then you have to forgo those urges. BUT everyone is different, different goals, different timelines, different body reaction...etc.. GLTY0
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https://youtu.be/E5TIpQsOAHU
I crashed and burned many times in 2015 during my 1st year of maintenance upon realizing (I think) that I would never be able to "eat what I want, as much as I want" if I want to maintain my loss. I've copied this video in the forum a few times. It really spoke to me. I have the freedom to choose. I'm not restricted. Trust I understand feeling completely out of control and going face first in 1000s of carb calories until they're gone...but it is over...at least for many months. I had to change my mindset.
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I was just about to post if anyone knew a good book about helping those that have mental/emotional issues with food. I get a few days in and then have a complete breakdown and binge. I'm not hungry. I don't even end up liking the food either( not nearly as good as I thought it would be).. I'm in day 3 (again), and I'm trying to be aware of the trigger that sends me overboard into the sea of carbage so I can hopefully stop it.0
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2 thoughts.
1 - when offered something off plan, say "I don't eat _____" vs. " I can't eat/have ______." The first indicates a choice whereas the second leads to a feeling you are being deprived. It is a mental thing, but most of life is a mental thing.
2 - This one is a bit harder to explain so I will use an example. If you play a sport (like basketball for instance), there are rules. These rules actually make the game more enjoyable, not less. For instance if one was allowed to trip the opposing player, there would almost certainly be a resulting escalation which would probably turn into a violent mess. The players who follow the rules are actually the ones who gain the most benefit.
Another example where rules lead to more freedom and not less would be if you don't tell your kid to not play in the street and he gets run over by a car. After that, he has no freedom.
Basically, every decision has a consequence - good, bad or neutral. We all have freedom to do whatever we want, but we need to be conscious of the consequence. For me, I can eat the large tub of popcorn at the movie theater. It might taste good at the time. The next day, I will feel bloated and within the next couple of days I will have acne breakouts on my face.
The biggest part about 2 is the more you make the better choice based on the consequences, the freer you feel because you are not owned by your cravings. When you give into a craving of any kind, that craving only increases. This is the law of addiction. The more you do it, the more you want it and the more you need to get the same pleasure.
The longer you go without giving into the craving that you know will have bad consequences, the better you feel and the less power that craving has over you. Essentially, you are freer because it is you making the decisions and not the cravings.7 -
food_lover16 wrote: »I was just about to post if anyone knew a good book about helping those that have mental/emotional issues with food. I get a few days in and then have a complete breakdown and binge. I'm not hungry. I don't even end up liking the food either( not nearly as good as I thought it would be).. I'm in day 3 (again), and I'm trying to be aware of the trigger that sends me overboard into the sea of carbage so I can hopefully stop it.
I have a group of Pals I correspond with who are all reading "The 4 Day Win" by Martha Beck and they raving about it and the activities in the workbook. A couple have also read The Beck Diet Solution by Judith Beck (mentioned above) and found it quite favorable. I checked "The 4 Day Win" out of the library a few weeks ago and read it but didn't didn't engage in all the activities only because I seem to have that phase of "things" taken care of.
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I was a binge eater and yoyo dieter for 20+ years. I had such a messed up relationship with food, I felt guilty and disgusted in myself all the time. I am a grown intelligent woman, but when I was "on a diet" (calorie restricted) I would stop at McDonalds on the way home from work and eat two big burgers in the car, then have my "diet" dinner at home. Is that effing crazy or what? No wonder I ended up 123kg. Switching to keto 4 years ago (primarily because I didn't want to get diabetes and suffer like my dad) has saved my life. I control my eating, not the other way around. But it took a while to get into the mindset. I now think of it like I'm sure vegetarians think "i don't eat meat". I don't eat carbs. It's a choice, but not an option for me. I don't binge on carby foods anymore because in my mind I don't eat those things. Every now and then I will still have a day where I want to eat all the things, and I'll munch my way through half a block of cheese and a packet of twiggy (salami) sticks and anything else keto I can get my hands on - but it's ok. There's no guilt attached, because I didn't eat all the carbs, and I am able to go back to normal the next day.3
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Wow. Thank you all so much! There were too many excellent responses/ideas for me to quote them and individually thank each of you. But you've all given me some excellent food for thought (sorry for the pun) and a lot of different ways to approach this. So thank you, truly!3
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I regularly visit my favorite Mexican joint, unroll a burrito and eat the filing with a spoon.
Also, I totally grubbed 4000kcal on Sunday. I knew I was cheating 2 weeks in advance though, so not an impulse binge. I got back at it Monday.
You probably hit upon the biggest problem in the first paragraph of your post, I think, in that after you fall off you talk down to yourself and let that one day you feel like you failed define you, rather than defining yourself by all of the other days where you succeeded. I have that problem in many areas of life. I have a tendency to fixate on negatives and let them eat away at me.
I've found journaling is a tremendous help for such behavior. I'm able to revisit what has gone well recently, and put the negatives into perspective by looking at the mountain of positives surrounding them. I also write out all of the things that I accomplished each day onto an index card. If I'm feeling unproductive I have a box full of them, logging all of my triumphs. Thirdly, I keep a gratitude diary with an app on my phone. Each day I'll jot down 3 things I'm grateful for, however insignificant. It's hard to feel like *kitten* if I can look back at so many things that I can be thankful for and how many things at which I've won.
Does it suck to look at your food log and see a binge? Sure. Do you have to fixate on that day, or can you just hit the back button and look at the day before where you hit your macros and your kcal goal? Can you hit that back arrow once more? How about once more? How about once more? How about once more?
Eating right for one day never made anyone healthy. Eating 3 orders of french fries and a box of Twinkies before it's even noon doesn't keep you unhealthy. You just have make one good decision at a time. It doesn't matter how bad the last one was.
High five. All of this.0 -
I truly believe it is a journey and not a destination. I have never struggled with true binge eating but I have the tendencies. Serious postpartum anxiety after the birth of my first child got me into counseling and lots of things keep me there. Though I still have never really addressed "eating disorders" or "obesity" or "health" specifically in counseling, working on ME and my ways of thinking has helped me with my physical health.
The three most important things I've learned on my health journey are: 1) the food is always ALWAYS there. Very rarely in life do you encounter a food that if you don't eat it RIGHT NOW you'll never have the opportunity to try it/taste it/ experience it again. If you are in a foreign country in some grandma's kitchen and she's making you the most carby, sugary, delicious thing EVER and she has the only recipe and is the only one who can make it BY ALL MEANS EAT THE DAMN FOOD. However, that is a once in a life time experience. The pizza and chips I love, yeah. I can get those whenever I want. So, I need to choose each and every time: Do I want this right now? if not, I know where to find it and can get it when I do it's not going away. This has been incredibly powerful for me. I'm not saying NO to food, I'm evaluating food and why I'm eating it. And that leads me to
2) Why do I want to eat what I want to eat? Cravings aren't usually physical bodily reactions to a missing nutrient. They are psychological responses to stimuli including but not limited to: emotions, situations, past experiences, past expectations, lifestyle. So, If I can ask my self why do I want this? and honestly answer the question I can make an educated personal decision on eating the food.....or not.
and 3) focus on the now. One day at a time. What decision can I make RIGHT NOW that will positively impact my health and my health related goals? I'm not going to worry about yesterday, or tomorrow, or hell...dinner tonight. I'm going to think about this very moment in time.
As for your question about "substitutions" I do find that I want specific sensations and taste combinations and there are some very good substitutions for that. but "fake" carbs like cauliflower pizza crust doesn't do it for me. Just pisses me off and makes me angry so I pass on that. But I will sub out pork rinds for chips. Salty and crunchy is what I'm after and both chips and pork rinds provide that flavor and sensation.
Once again, high five. You guys are awesome.
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This discussion has been closed.