Cholesterol revisited
fatblatta
Posts: 333 Member
Hi,
I just got blood work done and I'm stumped. In 2015 I had been on LCHF for a few months and lost some weight but not a super amount. I was at 248. My cholesterol numbers were better then than now. I can think of a few differences. I was drinking low carb alcohol then. This time I lost weight faster and more 270 to 221 in 4 months plus a week or two. No alcohol. I cut my numbers by better than 1/2 since November 2016. I was falling apart then I guess. Do I just have to give it some time to catch up? I can only assume this is a hidden message to start boozing it up again.
Cheers
I just got blood work done and I'm stumped. In 2015 I had been on LCHF for a few months and lost some weight but not a super amount. I was at 248. My cholesterol numbers were better then than now. I can think of a few differences. I was drinking low carb alcohol then. This time I lost weight faster and more 270 to 221 in 4 months plus a week or two. No alcohol. I cut my numbers by better than 1/2 since November 2016. I was falling apart then I guess. Do I just have to give it some time to catch up? I can only assume this is a hidden message to start boozing it up again.
Cheers
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Replies
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"Cholesterol numbers were better"
What does that even mean.
High cholesterol means nothing on its own. You're more likely to die from low cholesterol than high total cholesterol.
None of it means anything during weight loss anyway.
And once weight becomes stable for several months, it's really only the trig/HDL ratio that matters. Or maybe the v-LDL... but probably not so much.
https://youtu.be/jZu52duIqno
https://youtu.be/QUjbvK2U1D8 5 -
No need to be rude0
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I wasnt
That was a legit question with legit information that I found in my archives specifically to be helpful to you.
You're welcome3 -
Giving someone helpful information regarding your situation isn't being rude.
Her post may be blunt read in one way or the other. That doesn't mean there is malice behind it.
While losing weight, cholesterol is mobilized in the blood, so some numbers are higher. Trig/LDL ratio is of more concern long term than LDL. If 6 months after you've stopped losing weight, and it's still high. Get a particle count. Some people have naturally higher LDL, which can be remedied by changing your fat intake composition, cutting dairy, and/or doing niacin therapy.
Do watch those videos.
TL; DR- Yes you probably do need to wait for it to catch up. It should level back off.2 -
Yea, it was kind of rude. But that's fine. Thanks for your comments anyway.0
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Hi,
I just got blood work done and I'm stumped. In 2015 I had been on LCHF for a few months and lost some weight but not a super amount. I was at 248. My cholesterol numbers were better then than now. I can think of a few differences. I was drinking low carb alcohol then. This time I lost weight faster and more 270 to 221 in 4 months plus a week or two. No alcohol. I cut my numbers by better than 1/2 since November 2016. I was falling apart then I guess. Do I just have to give it some time to catch up? I can only assume this is a hidden message to start boozing it up again.
Cheers
Yes! In fact, Dr. Phinney specifically warns people still in the weight-loss phase of a ketogenic diet to wait until they have been in maintenance for a while to let their lipid profiles settle into a more permanent, telling pattern, particularly with regard to the quantity and composition of LDLs.
Here's a short clip by Phinney and Volek on how keto diets affect lipids:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mZ-deF9I31s
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Hi,
I just got blood work done and I'm stumped. In 2015 I had been on LCHF for a few months and lost some weight but not a super amount. I was at 248. My cholesterol numbers were better then than now. I can think of a few differences. I was drinking low carb alcohol then. This time I lost weight faster and more 270 to 221 in 4 months plus a week or two. No alcohol. I cut my numbers by better than 1/2 since November 2016. I was falling apart then I guess. Do I just have to give it some time to catch up? I can only assume this is a hidden message to start boozing it up again.
Cheers
@fatblatta sorry someone programmed to you to look at your cholesterol number as if it was a meaningful indicator as to your health. Keep in mind @Sunny_Bunny_ is up on cholesterol and is very helpful.
If you want to leave LCHF to start boozing it up again that will have to be your own personal decision.2 -
I'm not sure booze and keto are necessarily incompatible bedfellows.....0
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Yes I can see that with next to no carb booze if one drinks.0
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Thank you. I have some kidney function issues too. The doctors think I should be dead with the super high triglycerides. But it does eventually go down when I get close to my ideal weight for a while. I guess I'll just keep plugging along. I come from a long line of alcoholics so I don't mind abstaining for a while.
Thanks2 -
@Fatblatta - I don't know what your trigs are, since you only posted your total number, but super high triglycerides are many times a huge waving red flag of signal of an undiagnosed or undertreated thyroid condition. My ex-husband had trigs up into the 600's at one point, 400's once he dropped sugared coffees. I don't know now, since I haven't been involved with him in a number of years, but I know he's been slowly improving his health (we see each other when we meet with the kiddo, etc.). My trigs alone went from over 275 or something down to about 100, just from a super low dose of thyroid medicine. They've gone lower on a ketogenic diet.
Since you mention kidney function issues in addition to the cholesterol, have you had a full liver workup too? And gallbladder? Those systems, along side the thyroid are so interrelated, it's scary. Any continuing glucose issues hurt the kidneys, as to dehydration/low sodium, high protein (special cases), and/or genetic or preexisting injury or conditions.
I don't remember from previous posts whether you've had your thyroid full work up done, but assuming you're at least 25, a TSH number for you should be between 0.5 and 1.5 for optimal function. If your numbers are here, or if you have autoimmune issues, there are further tests that give a fuller picture of thyroid function.
And just a side note, while drinking, the liver function that releases stored glucose to regulate blood sugar levels is suspended to process alcohol, so it can artificially improve or worsen certain numbers without a true impact. I believe your "hidden" joke about told to drink again through hidden message fell a little flat because of being typed out. I hope that you dug into each of the data sources here to find the information that was shared, as that's the important marker here, and that you found good data takeaways from it all... Good luck.1 -
I'll go ahead and freak people out.
In 2015 I had been on LCHF for a few months and had a bout with diverticulitis. Which was a setback. But this made me incorporate a lot of veggies into my LCHF diet in the long run. This makes a huge sustainability impact for me personally. I think I was taking Crestor in 2015. That may be the difference in addition to drinking. I know they don't mix.
My doctor is a younger guy and he fully supports my LCHF diet. He want's me to take cholesterol medication, but I asked for a few more months. I'm not freaked out too much by this. I have a good frame of mind and I enjoy what I'm eating. I know I can do it. I also know I'll be able to keep doing it after I hit my target weight.
It's all tied together high blood pressure, high cholesterol, and trigs, glucose, and CKD. I have a hip injury and ate NSAIDs like candy for a while. It's like the # 1 cause of CKD. I think you can be a fat person for a long time, but it will catch up with you one day. I'm pretty happy at 230, but need to learn to be happy at 170.
Alcohol-free Cheers!
(But please, indulge if you want.)
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I do not get the Low HDL and High Triglycerides after being low carb for that long?0
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You see it went from 879/2476 to 489/1130 in 4 months and a week? I went from 277 in November to 221 Monday. I'm thinking 6 more months and I'll be in the groove: )1
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There are no rules on Keto it seems and it can be wild from one person to another. Thankfully it seems to come out OK in the end.
I had to fight to not be put on statins the first two years. Well it was not a fight. I just said NO WAY but with my age/education they knew they were not calling the shots.0 -
Wow! I had forgotten how high your levels had been.
Kudos for your attitude - glad you're up for the battle and the war!0 -
I definitely agree with @RalfLott . Those improvements are absolutely incredible - and through diet alone!!! Kudos to you.
That being said, have you had your thyroid function investigated? I was just curious.GaleHawkins wrote: »I do not get the Low HDL and High Triglycerides after being low carb for that long?
@GaleHawkins - you'll notice the HDL stayed static, but that the Trigs dropped by over half, right? The LDL being low, too, tells me that there is some odd genetic or outlying factor for the initial jump in trigs.
@fatblatta - What happened between 2015 and 2016 that made your trigs jump so badly? That's probably where I'd be starting (if it were me) in continuing to work on my numbers...2 -
@fatblatta - To me, the trig # and HDL number are the ones to look at. Trig is headed in the right direct and quite rapidly dropping in half in just over 4 months. HDL staying flat (difference of 35 to 33 is statistically insignificant) and one the lower side is interesting given you eat LCHF. What fats you eat can affect this. Saturated fats have been shown to raise HDL.
Given you are losing weight and a fairly rapid pace - which I think anything over 1.5-2 lbs a week is rapid - trig may stay higher than ideal. If they continue to decline, even if they don't reach optimal levels until after you become weight stable, you may be just fine. Personally, I would be more concerned about the HDL not going up.
In addition to saturated fat, exercise has been shown to raise HDL. Getting trig/HDL ratio below 2.0 is the best as, from what I have been able to find in research, is the best indicator of true risk. Below 1.0 is optimal. You have gone from 70.7 down to 34.2 in only 4 months. That is great progress. It looks like the main thing is to keep on keeping on with maybe just a few tweaks.4 -
Thank you.
Knit. Never had my thyroid checked that I know if, but the tests were many more than any I'd had before in this pass. I am a comfort eater and drinker. I had a rough patch for a while and I was drinking a few drinks almost every day. And because beer is not low carb it was scotch mostly. That's the biggest difference I think. Although it's pretty comforting to get a light buzz going, I stopped this practice after my blood work in November of 2016.
The good news, I didn't mention, is my glucose dropped from 170 to 110 from November until now. And my a1c was 5.4.
I think I've always had a little high cholesterol. My weight loss will slow down now that I hit the 1/2 way mark. I'll just keep going. I stopped artificially adding fat too. I use butter and olive oil for cooking and salads. I don't over do it to up my fat and calorie intake for the extra LCHF push. I did that at one point. I started exercising more too. It will be interesting if all these issues go away with the obesity.
The last time I hit 170 my doctor didn't believe my blood work and he did another test in the office. He looked at me like I was a miracle after that. I don't think doctors give people medication because it's a great conspiracy. They want to help people and they see 100's of overweight people that try and fail at losing weight. I know I have done this the 14 documented times I have tried before! I need to break that cycle!
Thanks for listening and encouraging. It helps!
Cheers2 -
@fatblatta - I would just keep an eye out on those trigs. If they don't keep moving downward as you continue losing weight (or at the least, not gaining), then I would look into testing the thyroid. It is pretty simple as far as a blood test.
TSH is a bare minimum and isn't really a good indicator, but it is the one most doctors like to use. It should be 0.5-1.5 (uiu/ml or miu/l). If you use mmol/l, let me know, and I'll look it up to convert it. This is considered optimal level. Most doctors will say that up to 4 or 6 is okay, but it should never, to my understanding, be above a 2 on this scale unless you're under 20 years old, and that's generally because you're still in a growth pattern.
What should be taken at the same time is Total and Free T4, Free and Reverse T3. You can tell A LOT from these simple numbers. If you delve into all this, I can find articles outlining optimal ranges for these, too (I have them saved, but I would have to dig a little)...
There are antibodies tests than can be run to rule out other thyroid issues (like Graves' Disease or Hashimoto's Thyroiditis), but testing negative isn't a guarantee of not having the condition, as I've recently learned, so they aren't as necessary if cost or extra tests are an issue.
I will just say, too, that I just got the FEAR put back in me from my own Trigs almost tripling in the last year, while my LDL went down, and my HDL slid back a little. My labs and switching doctors due to moving and losing faith in specialists has me feeling in a bit of a tailspin at the moment, but feel free to hit me up with a message if you want to talk more about thyroid.
The main reason I express concern is that if your thyroid truly is under-functioning, it is unlikely to self-correct. Even temporary intervention can help the body recover more quickly and fully from whatever current "system stress" is on it.
Wishing you continued successes in the progress department.2 -
Hi everyone,
Jumping on this thread because I am also fighting my MD to add fenobribrate (?) to my daily dose of poison lol. My trig have always been ridiculously high (once didn't even register, they were so high). My liver was covered in fat (fatty liver) and of course I was IR (diagnosised as PCOS). Since becoming t2D 8 years ago, they remained high but then again everything was because I was a non-complaint diabetic. My ultimate goal is to be med free. Im down to just lisonpril (for high blood pressure) and Metformin (for diabetes). My numbers look amazing (pats myself on the back lol) BUT my trig from Oct 2016 were still in the 400's. My then MD prescribed fenobrite which I never took. the Dr said it might be hereditary (totally possible) and it would still be a benefit for me to take it. I asked the Dr to give me some more time to lose a few more lbs and retest to see if I still need it. My AST/ALT (liver function) came back in NORMAL ranges which has never happened in my adult life. And my thyroid was fine. What do you all think?3 -
Tried fish oil for your trigs?
400 is not 2000, but it's still pretty high.... Most people tolerate fibrates well. Gemfibrozil (Lopid) has been around for ages and works great for some people with whacky trigs.
If it were me, since trigs can move around a lot, I'd want to retest several times (no need to wait for months in between) before agreeing to start a new med.
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https://thyroidpharmacist.com/articles/reducing-thyroid-antibodies-wobenzym/
While this article is about resolving thyroid issues using Wobenzym it does mention one side effect of taking Wobenzym is the lowering of triglycerides. Wobenzym is just made from plants and I find it very safe.
As a safety test I took 20 tablets 4x daily for 30 days for a total of 2400 tablets without any negative side effects. We take it daily in our house at normal dosage for heart attack, stroke and cancer risks prevention.
Using Vitamin D/K2 to get vitamin D levels into the 75-100 level range I think is a basic required foundational change before one can really improve most any health issue based on my experience.
I do think being on high dosage of fish oil for the past 20 years most likely saved me when I was eating every way but the way that was right for me.1 -
I'm over here eating all the fat and rocking that .9 triglycerides to HDL ratio like a *kitten* boss. VLDL at 11 like a *kitten* boss. Meanwhile bread chewers be dropping dead left and right. This *kitten* is broken.1
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I hadn't really thought it might be taken that way. I was just looking for a place to talk about this; got labs back yesterday and I was excited.
I hadn't meant to rub anyone's nose in anything. I took the comment about boozing it up again that this was kind of a light-hearted post, and that OP knew the cholesterol increase was due to being in a weight loss period, which is why I kinda took a silly tone myself.
My apologies, OP. I certainly don't delight in anyone's struggles.2 -
I'll go ahead and freak people out.
In 2015 I had been on LCHF for a few months and had a bout with diverticulitis. Which was a setback. But this made me incorporate a lot of veggies into my LCHF diet in the long run. This makes a huge sustainability impact for me personally. I think I was taking Crestor in 2015. That may be the difference in addition to drinking. I know they don't mix.
My doctor is a younger guy and he fully supports my LCHF diet. He want's me to take cholesterol medication, but I asked for a few more months. I'm not freaked out too much by this. I have a good frame of mind and I enjoy what I'm eating. I know I can do it. I also know I'll be able to keep doing it after I hit my target weight.
It's all tied together high blood pressure, high cholesterol, and trigs, glucose, and CKD. I have a hip injury and ate NSAIDs like candy for a while. It's like the # 1 cause of CKD. I think you can be a fat person for a long time, but it will catch up with you one day. I'm pretty happy at 230, but need to learn to be happy at 170.
Alcohol-free Cheers!
(But please, indulge if you want.)
I'd be clear about the "cholesterol medication" he wants to put you on, if you end up deciding to go that route. Usually, it means "LDL-lowering statins," which you don't need. It's pretty clear that your total cholesterol number is almost entirely from triglycerides. Fix the root cause of that, and everything else should fall into place.
I agree with @KnitOrMiss on getting your thyroid and liver checked out. Sky high trigs in almost any context, but especially on low carb, is typically indicative of a health issue, and the NSAID-popping and alcohol probably didn't help your cause (though I totally get it).2 -
Ironically, I got my labs back yesterday. My HDL had dropped (I hadn't been strict low carb in a while) by 10 points or so, my LDL had dropped by 20, but my Trigs had almost tripled! My first instinct is that my thyroid is wonky again, which seems likely, as I have felt run down and like crap and like my meds were off AGAIN... I have a couple other suspicions but that's me, too, though not as high as yours, admittedly, but still they were the highest they've been on my medical charts to my knowledge. Ever.2
