berberine vs metformin for BG control
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cstehansen
Posts: 1,984 Member
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2410097/
I found several studies showing the effectiveness of berberine, but could only get to the abstracts for most of them. The full text was available for this one. Berberine is an herb that has been used for centuries and is readily available over the counter. This study used 500 mg twice a day. The below chart shows effectiveness of each separately and then together. The results are quite similar. @RalfLott @KnitOrMiss @bametels @2t9nty @LowCarb4Me2016 @KenSmith108 @nvmomketo @rabbyduby @PaleoInScotland @midwesterner85 - sure I missed some people who might want to see this.
I found several studies showing the effectiveness of berberine, but could only get to the abstracts for most of them. The full text was available for this one. Berberine is an herb that has been used for centuries and is readily available over the counter. This study used 500 mg twice a day. The below chart shows effectiveness of each separately and then together. The results are quite similar. @RalfLott @KnitOrMiss @bametels @2t9nty @LowCarb4Me2016 @KenSmith108 @nvmomketo @rabbyduby @PaleoInScotland @midwesterner85 - sure I missed some people who might want to see this.
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Thanks for sharing. I took a quick look at the article. Some of issues of concern. One point of note is that the number of participants is quite small. However, the findings are interesting and hopefully these researchers or others have done subsequent, larger studies. Another issue is that study is published in an open access journal, which requires the authors or a sponsor to pay a $2500 fee to have the research published. In addition, aside from the main editors, no credentials were provided for the editorial board. I don't know this journal, it's far outside my academic field but what I see here raises some questions.1
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Interesting! Thanks for posting this.
And down the rabbit hole I go....2 -
Try looking up Keto Talk podcast. I know they had an episode on this supplement and how it helps.1
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My Nutritionist recommended that I take this supplement and I have been doing so for almost one month now. I do take Metformin as well. She wanted me to take it for "liver support." My finger stick blood glucose has been trending downward, but that could be the lchf diet along with everything else. She also recommended Bergamot and I have been using that for about 2 months now.1
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Thanks for sharing. I took a quick look at the article. Some of issues of concern. One point of note is that the number of participants is quite small. However, the findings are interesting and hopefully these researchers or others have done subsequent, larger studies. Another issue is that study is published in an open access journal, which requires the authors or a sponsor to pay a $2500 fee to have the research published. In addition, aside from the main editors, no credentials were provided for the editorial board. I don't know this journal, it's far outside my academic field but what I see here raises some questions.
As mentioned, there were about a dozen articles I had found, but for most I could only see the abstract without shelling out more than I can really afford. All of them said there was a benefit. Dr Nally from Keto Talk is one of several people I have heard mention it. Dr. Mowll is another.
In addition to the fact the entire article was accessible, I picked this one because it was human and not animal and I could see the dosing used. When only the abstract is available, it may talk about results, but it rarely says anything about the dosing. That was the problem with what those mentioning it in blogs or podcasts was - and honestly with all the more natural supplements. They rarely, if ever, say what an appropriate amount is to take. Given the options vary widely in the OTC supplements, that is an issue for me.1 -
As for the small sample size, I agree it would be nice to get a bigger one. The fact there are multiple small studies showing the same results eases my mind a bit on that one.
Given there is no wonder drug that can be patented really makes funding for a large study near impossible. One option is experiment.com. This is a crowd sourcing site which Dr Feinman is using in his study of the keto diet on cancer. Here is the link in case anyone is interested:
https://experiment.com/projects/part-2-can-low-carbohydrate-ketogenic-diets-inhibit-cancers
I think these types of sites with support from people like us is the only way we will ever get good research done on non-pharmacological answers to modern disease.2 -
@cstehansen - Thanks for sharing additional information. I very much appreciate the time you take to do all this reading and share what you learn with us. I have access to a major university library so I have the benefit of being able to obtain most articles at no cost. My biggest challenge is time, because I'm busy doing my own research and publishing. I can't share articles with the group but if there are a few that are of particular interest, I would be happy to see if they are available through my library and provide the group with a synopsis of key information.0
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@cstehansen - Thanks for sharing additional information. I very much appreciate the time you take to do all this reading and share what you learn with us. I have access to a major university library so I have the benefit of being able to obtain most articles at no cost. My biggest challenge is time, because I'm busy doing my own research and publishing. I can't share articles with the group but if there are a few that are of particular interest, I would be happy to see if they are available through my library and provide the group with a synopsis of key information.
THANK YOU!!! I recently got the paid access to greenmedinfo.com which is awesome. Sayer Ji has done a wonderful job organizing research on natural treatments for just about everything. There are tens of thousands of referenced studies/articles with abstracts and links to the originals. It makes getting at least to the abstracts so much easier. There is a free access version also, but the additional tools of the paid service were worth it for me.
I have only had this for less than a week but see a lot of value so far. As I get further along, I absolutely expect I will find studies where I can only see the abstract but want to see the full article. I really appreciate that offer.
I really am quite the nerd so doing the research is not a problem. Finding the time.....that can be a challenge. I have today off work for Good Friday, so I ended up staying up well past my normal bedtime reading until I just couldn't concentrate anymore. Any time I find something I think will add value to others, I want to share it. I believe we all should have the information needed to make wise decisions.4 -
As I read these graphs, it would seem that the advantage of the combination therapy would be the lower pp results? I don't see a benefit in the fasting numbers. I would be interested for someone to try this and report on results.1
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Anything new?0
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I have this the old college try for over 6 weeks with no noticeable difference.
Given testing shows I am not IR and my doc is convinced my BG control issues are micronutrient deficiencies, I may fall in that minority without an effect.
That said, when first diagnosed, I was on metformin for almost two months and got no improvement with it either.2 -
cstehansen wrote: »I have this the old college try for over 6 weeks with no noticeable difference.
Given testing shows I am not IR and my doc is convinced my BG control issues are micronutrient deficiencies, I may fall in that minority without an effect.
That said, when first diagnosed, I was on metformin for almost two months and got no improvement with it either.
Thx. What sort of berberine did you you?0 -
cstehansen wrote: »I have this the old college try for over 6 weeks with no noticeable difference.
Given testing shows I am not IR and my doc is convinced my BG control issues are micronutrient deficiencies, I may fall in that minority without an effect.
That said, when first diagnosed, I was on metformin for almost two months and got no improvement with it either.
Thx. What sort of berberine did you you?
I got it from Vitamin Shoppe. I used the dosage from that study. I don't have the bottle handy to get a pic.1 -
My Nutritionist recommended that I take this supplement and I have been doing so for almost one month now. I do take Metformin as well. She wanted me to take it for "liver support." My finger stick blood glucose has been trending downward, but that could be the lchf diet along with everything else. She also recommended Bergamot and I have been using that for about 2 months now.
@jill5280 having been LCHF since Oct 2014 my fasting blood glucose level was never under 102-108 until this month about a month after I started Berberine and about four others that are to lower fasting glucose levels. My objective is to cut inflammation levels. I know the Pycnogenol (French Maritime Pine Bark) lowers FBG level when I without thought took 400 mg one evening.1 -
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Thank you, my friend really enjoyed the study.1
