Slow loss

rugged1529

Hello all

I am 6'2 340 currently. I am losing via keto but it seems so slow and I don't really know​ is what the issue it. I have been diagnosed with rheumatoid arthritis and I am currently fighting that. I can't move at time and at other times, I can go to the gym. I stopped tracking but Im going to started again to see if carbs are creeping in. I was thinking maybe my RA medicine was causing a slow down, I don't know. Do I have to drinking a certain amount of water to maximize my fat loss? I am losing but it just seems alittle too slow for my size. I have been overweight as long as I can remember. I also read that it can take a while for insulin resistance to decrease (secondary IR). Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Do I have to be moderately active to lose fat? What if I was sedentary?

kpk54

How slow is slow meaning: how long have you been eating keto and how much have you lost?

Welcome!

cstehansen

IMO, 2 lbs a week average is healthy at that size with some slowing as you approach goal. This should be viewed as a way of eating and not a "diet" as diets fail nearly every time.

One of the most common irritants of autoimmune diseases, of which RA is one, is grains. You may have your carbs low enough but if they are coming from grains, that could be causing an issue.

rugged1529

I sorry I forgot to state when I started. I started at 360 January 20 and I am currently 340 (lowest I seen, weight fluctuates ). So 20 pounds in three months. I don't eat any grains for Amy Myers autoimmunity book. Could it be cheese?

retirehappy

Welcome to the group.

I don't think 20 lbs. in 3 months is all that slow. It has taken me 6 months to loss 21.

Dairy does make some people lose less or stalls them out. Are you drinking milk? How about yogurt? Hard cheeses are best for LC, parma, romano, and other long aged cheeses, like gouda. Personally, I can do the hard cheese and yogurt with good results, I can't over do it on cream and butter. I use them both but in smaller amounts. Cream cheese can also slow me down. I think everyone's reactions to dairy are different.

How about your oils, are you using only olive, avocado, and/or coconut oils? Seed oils should be avoided, IMHO.

Good luck on your weight loss Journey and seeking the pathway to health.

rugged1529

retirehappy wrote: »

Welcome to the group.

I don't think 20 lbs. in 3 months is all that slow. It has taken me 6 months to loss 21.

Dairy does make some people lose less or stalls them out. Are you drinking milk? How about yogurt? Hard cheeses are best for LC, parma, romano, and other long aged cheeses, like gouda. Personally, I can do the hard cheese and yogurt with good results, I can't over do it on cream and butter. I use them both but in smaller amounts. Cream cheese can also slow me down. I think everyone's reactions to dairy are different.

How about your oils, are you using only olive, avocado, and/or coconut oils? Seed oils should be avoided, IMHO.

Good luck on your weight loss Journey and seeking the pathway to health.

I use olive oil, and coconut oil. I have been eating all kinds of cheese lol. I might have to slow down on those. I don't know the difference between hard and soft cheeses, sorry if this sounds stupid. Is there a list of best cheeses to eat while on keto?

Sunny_Bunny_

That's 1.5 pounds per week. A very good rate in my opinion.

You could always take a look at eating habits like how often you eat. In case it's too often to maximize fat loss between meals.



Also, eating fat is certainly beneficial, but eating a lot of added fat isn't so beneficial for fat loss. Just in case you may be getting more from adding it beyond just eating naturally high fat foods.




But honestly, you're rate of loss has been great. Sure there are people that lose faster but there are also people that lose slower. Even with the same starting point as yourself.

kpk54

Perhaps when you start tracking again you'll see better results. Writing it down isn't the point but rather being accurate in weighing and measuring your foods and staying in the recommended deficit. I had some really bad eating habits, eating for every reason except hunger. Bored? Eat. Tired? Eat. TV commercial? Eat. A friend calls? Eat.

I personally never drank X amount of water but did stay hydrated with other zero calorie liquids. Also you don't have to exercise to lose weight. As much as I didn't like it, calories were king for weight loss.

retirehappy

rugged1529 wrote: »

retirehappy wrote: »

Welcome to the group.

I don't think 20 lbs. in 3 months is all that slow. It has taken me 6 months to loss 21.

Dairy does make some people lose less or stalls them out. Are you drinking milk? How about yogurt? Hard cheeses are best for LC, parma, romano, and other long aged cheeses, like gouda. Personally, I can do the hard cheese and yogurt with good results, I can't over do it on cream and butter. I use them both but in smaller amounts. Cream cheese can also slow me down. I think everyone's reactions to dairy are different.

How about your oils, are you using only olive, avocado, and/or coconut oils? Seed oils should be avoided, IMHO.

Good luck on your weight loss Journey and seeking the pathway to health.

I use olive oil, and coconut oil. I have been eating all kinds of cheese lol. I might have to slow down on those. I don't know the difference between hard and soft cheeses, sorry if this sounds stupid. Is there a list of best cheeses to eat while on keto?

You might find this blog post helpful:
https://www.ruled.me/ketogenic-diet-food-list/

It shows the carb count for a lot of things you have probably been eating, including the cheeses.

Soft cheese are like cream cheese, creme fraiche, moving up to brie, blu cheese, etc.

lundy2626

Try to lower your daily (SLOW) fats and replace them with protien. Example being, if you intake 120g of fat a day, lower it down to 110 for a week. If that doesn't help go to 100g the next week. If all else fails try doing a carb day and then go back to keto the next day. You may gain a couple pounds back from water retention but it should kick start fat loss again. It's like taking one step back and two steps forward.

rugged1529

Thank you guys for the helpful advice. I still don't know exactly how much protein is too much. I think I focused on not having more than 20g or carbs for the most part. And referring to the diagram above, I think I have been eating more like the maintenance side. My Tdee is about 3600 Cal's so I should be able to lose pretty well at 1800 with half coming from fat and mostly protein from the other half....Does this sound correct?

MzLazyBones

20lbs in three months isn't slow at all, that's great! Wow, good job.

I've recently re-tweaked to induction carbs myself, just wanted to wish you luck.

1thankful_momma

I have always found the keto calculator to help me out...
https://keto-calculator.ankerl.com/

cstehansen

rugged1529 wrote: »

Thank you guys for the helpful advice. I still don't know exactly how much protein is too much. I think I focused on not having more than 20g or carbs for the most part. And referring to the diagram above, I think I have been eating more like the maintenance side. My Tdee is about 3600 Cal's so I should be able to lose pretty well at 1800 with half coming from fat and mostly protein from the other half....Does this sound correct?

I would adamantly suggest you not drop calorie intake by that much. That would be an extreme hypocaloric diet and could put you at risk for slowing your metabolism permanently. This is what they found with that "Biggest Loser" study.

1.5-2 lbs a week is healthy and not damaging to your metabolism as long as you are getting adequate protein - at LEAST 0.8 grams per kg of lean mass. Most would suggest higher. Phinney and Volek recommend 1.5-2 grams per kg of ideal body weight. The more you exercise, the more you need.

To add to what @Sunny_Bunny_ said about timing for meals, many who drop carbs down to keto levels find intermittent fasting just happens naturally allowing for 16-18 hours a day of fasting at least some days each week if not every day. It also makes doing full day fasts much easier when you are fat adapted. Even now as I am in maintenance, I have little trouble doing 24 hours without eating. I do it occasionally because it seems to help my BG readings which is the primary reason I eat this way.

rugged1529

Thanks for the advice. It's seems like don't eating too much protein has been drilled into me. At what point does protein start to turn into glucose or how can I find out for me personally? I can't find this anywhere. Even if I had a ball park figure, at least I would have an idea. I really appreciate you guys.

JohnnyLowCarb

rugged1529 wrote: »

Thanks for the advice. It's seems like don't eating too much protein has been drilled into me. At what point does protein start to turn into glucose or how can I find out for me personally? I can't find this anywhere. Even if I had a ball park figure, at least I would have an idea. I really appreciate you guys.

No more than 4-6oz per meal.

WVWalkerFriend

I try to look at it this way, when we gained the weight we did so without really paying attention. We ate, did our thing and the weight creeped up, probably slowly. Once we decide to start losing we actually pay attention so the loss seems slow when in reality its just the body doing its thing in reverse. My plan right now is to stick to keto, get in my walk, and try not to pay attention to the speed of loss. I do weigh daily right now but only because it helps me to see the fluctuations. If you are losing, you're doing it correctly.

LisaPower123

I don't find your weight loss that slow. I have also only lost 20lbs since January. Life & vacations interfered, but like someone else said 1.5lbs per week is a healthy rate to lose.

In March I started to follow the advice from the ketogains group. Their theory is that protein is the most important macro to meet, carbs are a limit & fat is a leaver. If you have fat on your body, you don't need to eat high fat. A lot of people stall when concentrating on eating high fat.

Try this calculator:
https://ketogains.com/ketogains-calculator/

Tracking, weighing and measuring food is key for optimal weight loss.

cstehansen

rugged1529 wrote: »

Thanks for the advice. It's seems like don't eating too much protein has been drilled into me. At what point does protein start to turn into glucose or how can I find out for me personally? I can't find this anywhere. Even if I had a ball park figure, at least I would have an idea. I really appreciate you guys.

This is highly individualized. The safest way to figure it out is drop it low and test BG after meals. You may need to test 3 and 4 hours after because gluconeogenesis is not immediate. Then increase protein until you see if/when you start seeing increased BG readings.

You may be able to go up to a level where you don't want to go any higher in terms of preferred meals without any problem. A lot of this will depend on IR, activity level, etc.

Sunny_Bunny_

rugged1529 wrote: »

Thanks for the advice. It's seems like don't eating too much protein has been drilled into me. At what point does protein start to turn into glucose or how can I find out for me personally? I can't find this anywhere. Even if I had a ball park figure, at least I would have an idea. I really appreciate you guys.

GNG is a demand driven process. Your body is converting some protein into glucose all day long. If you could prevent it, you'd die. You have no control over this process. Not even by eating "too much". Eating more does NOT create more GNG simply because it's available.

http://www.ketotic.org/2012/08/if-you-eat-excess-protein-does-it-turn.html?m=1

You also don't really have to limit it at each meal either.

https://examine.com/nutrition/how-much-protein-can-i-eat-in-one-sitting/

suzqtme

Sunny_Bunny_ wrote: »

rugged1529 wrote: »

Thanks for the advice. It's seems like don't eating too much protein has been drilled into me. At what point does protein start to turn into glucose or how can I find out for me personally? I can't find this anywhere. Even if I had a ball park figure, at least I would have an idea. I really appreciate you guys.

GNG is a demand driven process. Your body is converting some protein into glucose all day long. If you could prevent it, you'd die. You have no control over this process. Not even by eating "too much". Eating more does NOT create more GNG simply because it's available.

http://www.ketotic.org/2012/08/if-you-eat-excess-protein-does-it-turn.html?m=1

You also don't really have to limit it at each meal either.

https://examine.com/nutrition/how-much-protein-can-i-eat-in-one-sitting/

Doesn't excess protein that the body doesn't need get converted to glucose through GNG and then to glucose and potentially stored as fat? There is no place else excess protein can go, is there? I'm like @johnnylew in thinking that 4 to 6 oz per meal would be a maximum.

If I go out for dinner and order a nice ribeye (bone in, yum) and don't portion off my approximated 4 oz portion and just eat the steak cause it is so good (I order it with just salt and pepper), my fbs is elevated in the morning as if I had eaten a carby meal. I usually have grilled veggies on the side with butter. I specify no sugar or gluten to be used in preparing any item I have. I've assumed from the reading I've done that this is due to my eating too much protein at that last meal for the evening which I don't burn off. My body is happily digesting my ribeye and making glucose through GNG. Have I misunderstood this?

You always seem to have the latest research at your fingertips, @Sunny_Bunny_

Sunny_Bunny_

suzqtme wrote: »

Sunny_Bunny_ wrote: »

rugged1529 wrote: »

Thanks for the advice. It's seems like don't eating too much protein has been drilled into me. At what point does protein start to turn into glucose or how can I find out for me personally? I can't find this anywhere. Even if I had a ball park figure, at least I would have an idea. I really appreciate you guys.

GNG is a demand driven process. Your body is converting some protein into glucose all day long. If you could prevent it, you'd die. You have no control over this process. Not even by eating "too much". Eating more does NOT create more GNG simply because it's available.

http://www.ketotic.org/2012/08/if-you-eat-excess-protein-does-it-turn.html?m=1

You also don't really have to limit it at each meal either.

https://examine.com/nutrition/how-much-protein-can-i-eat-in-one-sitting/

Doesn't excess protein that the body doesn't need get converted to glucose through GNG and then to glucose and potentially stored as fat? There is no place else excess protein can go, is there? I'm like @johnnylew in thinking that 4 to 6 oz per meal would be a maximum.

If I go out for dinner and order a nice ribeye (bone in, yum) and don't portion off my approximated 4 oz portion and just eat the steak cause it is so good (I order it with just salt and pepper), my fbs is elevated in the morning as if I had eaten a carby meal. I usually have grilled veggies on the side with butter. I specify no sugar or gluten to be used in preparing any item I have. I've assumed from the reading I've done that this is due to my eating too much protein at that last meal for the evening which I don't burn off. My body is happily digesting my ribeye and making glucose through GNG. Have I misunderstood this?

You always seem to have the latest research at your fingertips, @Sunny_Bunny_

If you eat too much of anything it will get converted to fat. Protein, carbs or fat. It's the act of overconsumption that creates the rise in insulin to store the excess. If you're insulin resistant, this rise in insulin can certainly correlate to a rise in fbs the next day. The body will respond by secreting glucose from the trigger of insulin. That's unique to that condition.
But our bodies don't readily seek to burn protein for fuel. It's a building block. Fat and carbs are the fuel.
And sure it can't store it, but according to that second source it can hang out in limbo and be recycled for quite some time giving it plenty of opportunity to be useful.
Protein is digested slowly because the body specifically slows down digestion to make the most efficient use of the amino acids supplied.
So excess protein will hang out in the gut having its amino acids recycled and moving slowly through while excess fat or carbs will turn into stored fat quite quickly.
Protein has lots of work to do even if you don't work your body hard.
Fat and carbs can quickly become excess unless you are working your body hard.
That's the way I'm taking it.

kpk54

@suzqtme Perhaps Dr. Phinney might be able to shed some light regarding your question of protein converting to glucose and whether or not one can have too much protein.

http://www.meandmydiabetes.com/2012/07/17/steve-phinney-a-calorie-is-not-just-a-calorie/

The option is there to either read or listen to the ~20 podcast. I will extrapolate this one paragraph from the site above. I choose to not interpret what Dr. Phinney believes or communicates so am neither for nor against his expert opinion. I do hope you find the article helpful @suzqtme. From the article:

"Why would excess protein be a problem?
STEVE PHINNEY: A lot of people focus on what a low-carb diet does to insulin levels, and some people think it’s all about insulin levels. Some of us think beyond that, but just focusing on insulin levels per se, and the low carb diet . . . if you eat a low-carb diet, the lower consumption of carbs can indeed allow your insulin levels to go down. That’s helpful for improving insulin sensitivity. But if you also eat a lot of protein, then insulin levels will go back up because protein is an even greater stimulus of insulin production than are carbohydrates."


ETA: I just happened to find the article while searching for anything Phinney might report regarding maintenance. Hope it is helpful to someone. It seemed appropriate to the current gist of the thread so I thought I would add it. I don't eat high protein nor do I have the inclination.

DietPrada

20lbs in 3 months is nearly 1.5lb a week. I wouldn't call that slow. I average 1lb a month - 4 years to lose 90lbs.

genmon00

Its all part of our "microwave" thinking, everything needs to come quickly or ELSE! lol Or else what? Are we giving up on this woe which (has for me at least) practically cured my Type 2 Diabetes? I settled in my heart and mind that LCHF is the best way for me to eat since its reversing all bad effects of diabetes. At times, I get frustrated because it's been close to a year and I'm only 2 lbs away from my original goal and I'm like GEESH body can you give me break? Lol but then it's all vanity because my blood sugars have never been better, my fatty liver is not so fatty anymore (the lab work proves it), and I feel so much better! Keep at it! It takes time.. don't give up and don't rush because in reality we really can't manipulate our bodies that much. It's much smarter than us LOL.

rugged1529

Thanks for the advice. I'm going to be more patient plus like many are saying, it heals my body. I am recovering from RA and my body has been feeling really good.