UD 2.0 and Powerlifting Training

a_vettestingray

Sarah and Sidesteel,

Update to my intake progress: I suck at it, lol. When trying to really train heavy, the 1800 calorie days just didn't give me enough steam. I have been trying to calorie (+ carb) cycle 1500/2000 while weight training four times a week and keeping up with my cardio.

I have been reading Lyle McDonald's Ultimate Diet 2.0 and he does mention powerlifters/athletes using his method to lean out and gain strength. However, his template for types of exercises do not line up to traditional powerliftering lifts. He did answer someone in his forums about taking the depletion days and working on speed and power days for (obviously) power (the big three). I am a little lost on what the course of action would be on tension day, since its a full body workout (but you only get one - and therefore would have to do both squats and deadlifts on the same day). Would that be an acceptable approach?

Not sure if UD 2.0 is something I want to do right at the moment, but I am reading (and re-reading) in case I decide its right for me.

Also, super excited that I ordered a turquoise Inzer lever belt yesterday.; its been on my wishlist for quite some time. :bigsmile:

Sarauk2sf

Oooooo - nice re the belt. Mine is a purple inzer one.


Oh, and tagging to respond more fully shortly

Hendrix7

Shoot chrisdavey a PM he has done UD 2 a few times and he lifts heavy things so should be able to give some good input.

chrisdavey

UD2 is a great CKD if you want to go to that extent of specifically timing everything but unless you are already very lean you should still be able to keep/gain strength and lose fat depending on your training experience also.

UD2 doesn't really lend itself to powerlifting that well IMO as you end up doing your high rep hypertrophy stuff on 2 days early in the week on very low cals. By Thursday you are just about dead and have a tension workout which would include squats,deads and bench typically in the 6-8 rep range. THis session is not going to be ideal for any sort of PR's being fully glycogen depleted. Then on Saturday you basically have a PL comp

TBH if you want to run some sort of carb cycling and a powerlifting routine, I would look towards carb backloading. You have no carbs on rest days and lots on training days basically. You won't ever be glycogen depleted and that is not really ideal for gaining strength anyway.

I'm actually writing a critique on CBL now BTW. Some of the stuff in the book is BS but at the end of the day if you get adequate macros, the timing is of little relevance IMO. It "may" give you a slight advantage.

Sarauk2sf

Are you trying to meet a weight class for a comp or are you just trying to lose a few extra lbs? When is your next comp?

a_vettestingray

Chrisdavey - thanks, very helpful information

Sara - I am wanting to drop into the 56kg class. I usually weigh about 127lb, so I would need to lose 5-7lbs to be confident I could make weight. (sadly - with TOM bloat, I am pushed into the 67.5kg class - which blows, so I have to remember to lose enough to account for any bloat I might have during weigh in). Looking at the December comp, but might do one earlier if I can find a push/pull close to home. Unfortunately, I also plan on starting a long bulk in October, which might screw up my planned weight class, so IDK.

I am just looking for the best solution to drop some excess fat to make weight while increasing strength.

I was seeing some pretty good increases while eating 1800 until about two weeks ago and I hit a wall. Hence the interest in carb cycling on lifting days.

Some friends tell me I need to suck it up and pick a goal: either get strong OR look good (lower BF). I am determined to do both, lol. Guess I will just keep on trucking along

Sarauk2sf

Powerlifting and body composition goals are often at odds with each other. It can be done, but it takes having a focus on one, then managing the other around that.

My opinion, is that you should fit your diet around your training, and not the other way round.


The issue with all of the variability of this type of diet, as I see it, is adherence. There is an awful lot of messing around with intake timing for only a small possible benefit. Trying to micromanage things is very hard and can take over.

When I cut, I find that low calories for any extended time really impacts my lifting. I used to do the variable intake - higher for lifting days and lower for non lifting days (my high days were the day before as I lifted in the morning).

Sarauk2sf

FWIW, I am in a similar situation in that I want to make a certain weight for a PL comp, probably in December. My plan is to focus on cutting to below the weight class by a few lbs and then doing a lean bulk so I hover a few lbs either side. That way, I am not spending much time on trying to gain strength in a deficit but do not have to cut much to meet the weight class.

It may be something to think about - bite the bullet, do a quick cut, then get back to eating more and keeping your weight to within a few pounds.

a_vettestingray

Sara, that is pretty much what I am doing. I am cutting, or attempting to cut, until 20 Sept (aligned with vacation). Work on upping to maintence while over vacation and then go into a small surplus. Based on my last surplus - I had a total gain of 5lbs over 8 weeks, so if I can cut enough before the bulk - I will be able to do what you are planning to do in order to make weight. I just suck at cutting so much b/c I hate seeing my lifts go back down when I worked for months to increase them.

Which class are you eyeballing?

Sarauk2sf

I have not experience a decrease in strength for my lifts yet luckily. Endurance, yes. Plus I had some ****ty workouts before I started varying my calories. However, I had been lifting less than a year during my first diet cycle so my lifts were going up just due to form and adaptations. It is going to be interesting to see if they still go up during this cut.

I am looking to complete in the 148lb category - which is pretty good for me as my 'cut' weight is a little lower.

a_vettestingray

The 148lb is highly competitive here - which is one of the reasons I don't want to bloat my way into it, lol.
The 132lb category is also pretty competitive here in my area...the 123lb class is a little less competitive and the 114lb class barely exists.

I am jealous that you are maintaining strength - you are on a straight cut, right?

chrisdavey

Powerlifting and body composition goals are often at odds with each other. It can be done, but it takes having a focus on one, then managing the other around that.

My opinion, is that you should fit your diet around your training, and not the other way round.

Agreed.

Although, I think the body comp and PL actually go hand in hand for most lighter weight classes. It's only the heavier people that tend to go for the any mass is good mass approach from what I've seen.

This guy came 2nd at GPC nats. Looks pretty aesthetic to me (nohomo :laugh:)

That is as long as PLers do plenty of upper back work as many have very high volume pressing routines.

A_vettestingray: what fed are you competing in? And where do you train?

Sarauk2sf

^^yep. I know the 3DMJ guys powerlift in the off season but often still pretty ripped.

Sarauk2sf

The 148lb is highly competitive here - which is one of the reasons I don't want to bloat my way into it, lol.
The 132lb category is also pretty competitive here in my area...the 123lb class is a little less competitive and the 114lb class barely exists.

I am jealous that you are maintaining strength - you are on a straight cut, right?

It is good at the moment. It is early days though. I have a straight deficit with once a week refeeds that I am timing to coincide with my deadlift day. I am sure in a few weeks time you will see me start to whine about my lifts on my feed though. I think my newbie strength gains are pretty much used up by now.

148lb seems the most competitive, but I would rather be at the top end of the weight class than compete against the women approaching 168lb (I think that is the next class up).

a_vettestingray

Powerlifting and body composition goals are often at odds with each other. It can be done, but it takes having a focus on one, then managing the other around that.

My opinion, is that you should fit your diet around your training, and not the other way round.

Agreed.

Although, I think the body comp and PL actually go hand in hand for most lighter weight classes. It's only the heavier people that tend to go for the any mass is good mass approach from what I've seen.

This guy came 2nd at GPC nats. Looks pretty aesthetic to me (nohomo :laugh:)

That is as long as PLers do plenty of upper back work as many have very high volume pressing routines.

A_vettestingray: what fed are you competing in? And where do you train?

USAPL WA. I am training in my garage.

chrisdavey

nice, garage gym for me too.

For some reason, I thought you were an Aussie. I think the metric numbers up there tricked me