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cstehansen wrote: »cstehansen wrote: »
Anyway, as I have looked into this, one thing that may help is actually "cold therapy" which I can only describe as an anti-sauna. Essentially, it seems there is some evidence that spending 10-20 minutes a day in cold will make your body convert white fat to brown fat. I have not been able to find the original research articles on this yet, but have seen/heard it referenced a few times now, so I will keep looking.
This is interesting and I am eager to hear what you find out. If you need a "cold place" even in summer, make friends with your local gas station attendent and ask if you can walk in their freezer for a few minutes a day and just stand there (in full sight). Or go to your local Costco or grocery store with a walk in type freezer. I know this because grocery shopping at costco is painful when I have to go into the milk/veggie area
I may not do this exactly, but it did give me an idea. Several of the convenience stores around here have a walk in refrigerated beer section. Hanging out in there for several minutes doesn't seem like a bad idea.
Attire?0 -
cstehansen wrote: »cstehansen wrote: »
Anyway, as I have looked into this, one thing that may help is actually "cold therapy" which I can only describe as an anti-sauna. Essentially, it seems there is some evidence that spending 10-20 minutes a day in cold will make your body convert white fat to brown fat. I have not been able to find the original research articles on this yet, but have seen/heard it referenced a few times now, so I will keep looking.
This is interesting and I am eager to hear what you find out. If you need a "cold place" even in summer, make friends with your local gas station attendent and ask if you can walk in their freezer for a few minutes a day and just stand there (in full sight). Or go to your local Costco or grocery store with a walk in type freezer. I know this because grocery shopping at costco is painful when I have to go into the milk/veggie area
I may not do this exactly, but it did give me an idea. Several of the convenience stores around here have a walk in refrigerated beer section. Hanging out in there for several minutes doesn't seem like a bad idea.
Attire?
I'm thinking shorts and a t-shirt - for as long as I can stand it. I stopped wearing sleeveless shirts and tank tops back in my 20's.0 -
cstehansen wrote: »cstehansen wrote: »cstehansen wrote: »
Anyway, as I have looked into this, one thing that may help is actually "cold therapy" which I can only describe as an anti-sauna. Essentially, it seems there is some evidence that spending 10-20 minutes a day in cold will make your body convert white fat to brown fat. I have not been able to find the original research articles on this yet, but have seen/heard it referenced a few times now, so I will keep looking.
This is interesting and I am eager to hear what you find out. If you need a "cold place" even in summer, make friends with your local gas station attendent and ask if you can walk in their freezer for a few minutes a day and just stand there (in full sight). Or go to your local Costco or grocery store with a walk in type freezer. I know this because grocery shopping at costco is painful when I have to go into the milk/veggie area
I may not do this exactly, but it did give me an idea. Several of the convenience stores around here have a walk in refrigerated beer section. Hanging out in there for several minutes doesn't seem like a bad idea.
Attire?
I'm thinking shorts and a t-shirt - for as long as I can stand it. I stopped wearing sleeveless shirts and tank tops back in my 20's.
Stopped following Richard Simmons?1 -
I've read this too. So this winter I didn't heat up my car and end up shivering for the first 10 minutes of my commute. I don't know if I'm brilliant or demented.
Perhaps a bit of both?!
cstehansen wrote: »In regard to cold, less fat = less insulation. However, if you have adequate brown fat (which is "good" fat), that will help. One thing that keeps people losing inches but not weight initially is their body converting white fat ("bad" fat) to brown fat which is much denser. Brown fat actually burns a lot of energy to create heat and keep you warm.
This is an area of interest for me because I am always cold which sucks because my wife is in early menopause due to a hysterectomy and is always hot. Car rides suck from a temperature standpoint.
Anyway, as I have looked into this, one thing that may help is actually "cold therapy" which I can only describe as an anti-sauna. Essentially, it seems there is some evidence that spending 10-20 minutes a day in cold will make your body convert white fat to brown fat. I have not been able to find the original research articles on this yet, but have seen/heard it referenced a few times now, so I will keep looking.
I REALLY hate being cold all the time, so I am considering doing some n=1 experiments with this even if I can't find the original research. However, we are approaching summer, and I live in Texas, so I may not have an easy way to do this for several months.
As for your second question, those pee stix only work accurately until you are fat adapted. After that, it is easy to get a false negative simply because your body gets more efficient at using the ketones so fewer get expelled through urine.
If you want to know for sure, you either need to use a blood ketone meter (considered the gold standard) or a breath ketone meter (i.e. Ketonix).
As @johnnylew mentioned, there are signs which can give you a reasonably good idea if you are in ketosis, however it is not 100%. The biggest/easiest IMO is when you can go 12, 18 or even 24 hours without eating and aren't even really hungry.
I'm interested in your n=1 experiment results with regard to this too @cstehansen! Prior to Keto, and weighing 300 pounds easy, I was always the warmest person in the room. Post Keto and after successfully eliminating 167 pounds, I am officially dead (i.e. = ice water in my veins). LOLZ I, too, am now always the coldest person in the room. I consider any less than about 75 degrees to be "cold" to the point where I'm wearing a jacket. Over this past Winter in Southern California, I can clearly recall multiple times going for walks outside (usually very late at night and/or very early in the morning) wearing: a thermal tank top under whatever top I'd chosen for the day. Over this I would wear a long-sleeved, zippered jacket and over ALL of that, my trusty down ("industrial strength") jacket, and 2 pairs of gloves on my hands which weren't enough because my hands never warmed up on the usually hour-long walks. It's crazy how keenly I feel the cold now.1 -
cstehansen wrote: »cstehansen wrote: »
Anyway, as I have looked into this, one thing that may help is actually "cold therapy" which I can only describe as an anti-sauna. Essentially, it seems there is some evidence that spending 10-20 minutes a day in cold will make your body convert white fat to brown fat. I have not been able to find the original research articles on this yet, but have seen/heard it referenced a few times now, so I will keep looking.
This is interesting and I am eager to hear what you find out. If you need a "cold place" even in summer, make friends with your local gas station attendent and ask if you can walk in their freezer for a few minutes a day and just stand there (in full sight). Or go to your local Costco or grocery store with a walk in type freezer. I know this because grocery shopping at costco is painful when I have to go into the milk/veggie area
I may not do this exactly, but it did give me an idea. Several of the convenience stores around here have a walk in refrigerated beer section. Hanging out in there for several minutes doesn't seem like a bad idea.
https://sparklinghill.com/cold-chamber2 -
canadjineh wrote: »cstehansen wrote: »cstehansen wrote: »
Anyway, as I have looked into this, one thing that may help is actually "cold therapy" which I can only describe as an anti-sauna. Essentially, it seems there is some evidence that spending 10-20 minutes a day in cold will make your body convert white fat to brown fat. I have not been able to find the original research articles on this yet, but have seen/heard it referenced a few times now, so I will keep looking.
This is interesting and I am eager to hear what you find out. If you need a "cold place" even in summer, make friends with your local gas station attendent and ask if you can walk in their freezer for a few minutes a day and just stand there (in full sight). Or go to your local Costco or grocery store with a walk in type freezer. I know this because grocery shopping at costco is painful when I have to go into the milk/veggie area
I may not do this exactly, but it did give me an idea. Several of the convenience stores around here have a walk in refrigerated beer section. Hanging out in there for several minutes doesn't seem like a bad idea.
https://sparklinghill.com/cold-chamber
I have heard of these places. I work for a company that tests the electrical safety of products, and we have tested some of these. I think the convenience store beer room is more in my price range though.
BTW, aren't you in Canada? In my book, there is about 10 months of the year where just stepping outside = freeze my tail off.0 -
@ladipoet - First, WOW about losing 167 lbs! That is AWESOME!!!
I was stuck living in northeast Ohio for 11 winters. During that time, I started wearing thermal top and bottom every day starting in early October and going through late May. My next door neighbor just referred to me as "the freeze baby" as I had on full winter attire as I did the last lawn mowing of the year and he was wearing shorts and a tank top. So thankful to be back in Texas where I belong.0 -
cstehansen wrote: »cstehansen wrote: »
Anyway, as I have looked into this, one thing that may help is actually "cold therapy" which I can only describe as an anti-sauna. Essentially, it seems there is some evidence that spending 10-20 minutes a day in cold will make your body convert white fat to brown fat. I have not been able to find the original research articles on this yet, but have seen/heard it referenced a few times now, so I will keep looking.
This is interesting and I am eager to hear what you find out. If you need a "cold place" even in summer, make friends with your local gas station attendent and ask if you can walk in their freezer for a few minutes a day and just stand there (in full sight). Or go to your local Costco or grocery store with a walk in type freezer. I know this because grocery shopping at costco is painful when I have to go into the milk/veggie area
I may not do this exactly, but it did give me an idea. Several of the convenience stores around here have a walk in refrigerated beer section. Hanging out in there for several minutes doesn't seem like a bad idea.
I think I read a detailed abstract of that study, but I don't remember where. (Maybe Mark's Daily Apple had a link to pubmed for the actual paper?) Basically, it wasn't nearly as extreme as hanging out in a walk-in freezer. As I recall it was a fairly small group of men (maybe 10?). I seem to recall they were middle aged and office workers. (That is actually important because there are other studies that show people who labor outside for a job have high brown fat already.).
The men were exposed to 60 f temps for 30 mins a couple times a week for several months wearing light clothes. My understanding is they were cold, but not cold enough to shiver (because then you are heating yourself up by shivering rather than encouraging the production of brown fat to keep you warm).
Tim Ferris claims that an ice pack across the back & shoulders also encourages brown fat increases. That was from an n=1 study where the result was fat loss. So because he lost more fat that way, he inferred that he must have increased his brown fat.
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cstehansen wrote: »cstehansen wrote: »
Anyway, as I have looked into this, one thing that may help is actually "cold therapy" which I can only describe as an anti-sauna. Essentially, it seems there is some evidence that spending 10-20 minutes a day in cold will make your body convert white fat to brown fat. I have not been able to find the original research articles on this yet, but have seen/heard it referenced a few times now, so I will keep looking.
This is interesting and I am eager to hear what you find out. If you need a "cold place" even in summer, make friends with your local gas station attendent and ask if you can walk in their freezer for a few minutes a day and just stand there (in full sight). Or go to your local Costco or grocery store with a walk in type freezer. I know this because grocery shopping at costco is painful when I have to go into the milk/veggie area
I may not do this exactly, but it did give me an idea. Several of the convenience stores around here have a walk in refrigerated beer section. Hanging out in there for several minutes doesn't seem like a bad idea.
I think I read a detailed abstract of that study, but I don't remember where. (Maybe Mark's Daily Apple had a link to pubmed for the actual paper?) Basically, it wasn't nearly as extreme as hanging out in a walk-in freezer. As I recall it was a fairly small group of men (maybe 10?). I seem to recall they were middle aged and office workers. (That is actually important because there are other studies that show people who labor outside for a job have high brown fat already.).
The men were exposed to 60 f temps for 30 mins a couple times a week for several months wearing light clothes. My understanding is they were cold, but not cold enough to shiver (because then you are heating yourself up by shivering rather than encouraging the production of brown fat to keep you warm).
Tim Ferris claims that an ice pack across the back & shoulders also encourages brown fat increases. That was from an n=1 study where the result was fat loss. So because he lost more fat that way, he inferred that he must have increased his brown fat.
I thought it was the act of shivering that stimulated development of brown fat???
I can't remember where I had read about it. Actually maybe it was a podcast. Quite a while back.
I remember thinking I wanted to do the cold shower thing for the benefit but I can't stand being cold. It's actually painful. All my muscles tense up so much that it hurts.
If what you're saying is all it takes, with the way my husband controls the thermostat in the winter I had several months of being cold but just warmer than shivering! Lol
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cstehansen wrote: »cstehansen wrote: »
Anyway, as I have looked into this, one thing that may help is actually "cold therapy" which I can only describe as an anti-sauna. Essentially, it seems there is some evidence that spending 10-20 minutes a day in cold will make your body convert white fat to brown fat. I have not been able to find the original research articles on this yet, but have seen/heard it referenced a few times now, so I will keep looking.
This is interesting and I am eager to hear what you find out. If you need a "cold place" even in summer, make friends with your local gas station attendent and ask if you can walk in their freezer for a few minutes a day and just stand there (in full sight). Or go to your local Costco or grocery store with a walk in type freezer. I know this because grocery shopping at costco is painful when I have to go into the milk/veggie area
I may not do this exactly, but it did give me an idea. Several of the convenience stores around here have a walk in refrigerated beer section. Hanging out in there for several minutes doesn't seem like a bad idea.
I think I read a detailed abstract of that study, but I don't remember where. (Maybe Mark's Daily Apple had a link to pubmed for the actual paper?) Basically, it wasn't nearly as extreme as hanging out in a walk-in freezer. As I recall it was a fairly small group of men (maybe 10?). I seem to recall they were middle aged and office workers. (That is actually important because there are other studies that show people who labor outside for a job have high brown fat already.).
The men were exposed to 60 f temps for 30 mins a couple times a week for several months wearing light clothes. My understanding is they were cold, but not cold enough to shiver (because then you are heating yourself up by shivering rather than encouraging the production of brown fat to keep you warm).
Tim Ferris claims that an ice pack across the back & shoulders also encourages brown fat increases. That was from an n=1 study where the result was fat loss. So because he lost more fat that way, he inferred that he must have increased his brown fat.
Thanks for this. I was actually thinking about the ice pack option. I had a car accident last Monday and am supposed to be using one across my upper back/neck but have a hard time finding time so I have only done so twice so far. (See my current avatar for a picture of what is left of my car. No significant injuries, thank God.)
I also like that the temp may not need to be extreme. Perhaps since the beer cooler is colder than 60 f, I can use timing of staying in there until I start to shiver as a starting point if shivering means it is no longer productive for production of brown fat.
@Sunny_Bunny_ - as for the shivering, this is something I did know because of an article talking about how babies have a higher percentage of brown fat and are therefore able to stay warm without shivering.0 -
1. I was cold a lot when I was overweight too and I'm cold now. lol. I guess as such I've always liked sleeping in a lot of clothes. In fact in the winter I often sleep with a hooded sweatshirt or a flannel over my pajamas for extra warmth. My husband joked one morning that he looked over, saw the flannel, and thought he was in bed with Eddie Vedder.
2. I sometimes check ketostix...but rarely. Stinky pee is definitely a good sign. Some people have more keto breath issues than others so you could be in ketosis without the breath. Lucky you! lol. Like it was said above if you are getting results, not having undue hunger or cravings then I wouldn't worry about ketosis. You are on the right track for you!
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@Sunny_Bunny_ - as for the shivering, this is something I did know because of an article talking about how babies have a higher percentage of brown fat and are therefore able to stay warm without shivering.
This is my understanding as well. Babies have high brown fat which keeps them warm because they can't shiver yet. As we grow up and gain the ability to shiver we lose brown fat because we don't need it to regulate our temperature.
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cstehansen wrote: »canadjineh wrote: »cstehansen wrote: »cstehansen wrote: »
Anyway, as I have looked into this, one thing that may help is actually "cold therapy" which I can only describe as an anti-sauna. Essentially, it seems there is some evidence that spending 10-20 minutes a day in cold will make your body convert white fat to brown fat. I have not been able to find the original research articles on this yet, but have seen/heard it referenced a few times now, so I will keep looking.
This is interesting and I am eager to hear what you find out. If you need a "cold place" even in summer, make friends with your local gas station attendent and ask if you can walk in their freezer for a few minutes a day and just stand there (in full sight). Or go to your local Costco or grocery store with a walk in type freezer. I know this because grocery shopping at costco is painful when I have to go into the milk/veggie area
I may not do this exactly, but it did give me an idea. Several of the convenience stores around here have a walk in refrigerated beer section. Hanging out in there for several minutes doesn't seem like a bad idea.
https://sparklinghill.com/cold-chamber
I have heard of these places. I work for a company that tests the electrical safety of products, and we have tested some of these. I think the convenience store beer room is more in my price range though.
BTW, aren't you in Canada? In my book, there is about 10 months of the year where just stepping outside = freeze my tail off.
I just had to chime in on this one. I'm in Canada too, and it's about 88F here right now. (31C) I am not chilly today!1 -
cstehansen wrote: »canadjineh wrote: »cstehansen wrote: »cstehansen wrote: »
Anyway, as I have looked into this, one thing that may help is actually "cold therapy" which I can only describe as an anti-sauna. Essentially, it seems there is some evidence that spending 10-20 minutes a day in cold will make your body convert white fat to brown fat. I have not been able to find the original research articles on this yet, but have seen/heard it referenced a few times now, so I will keep looking.
This is interesting and I am eager to hear what you find out. If you need a "cold place" even in summer, make friends with your local gas station attendent and ask if you can walk in their freezer for a few minutes a day and just stand there (in full sight). Or go to your local Costco or grocery store with a walk in type freezer. I know this because grocery shopping at costco is painful when I have to go into the milk/veggie area
I may not do this exactly, but it did give me an idea. Several of the convenience stores around here have a walk in refrigerated beer section. Hanging out in there for several minutes doesn't seem like a bad idea.
https://sparklinghill.com/cold-chamber
I have heard of these places. I work for a company that tests the electrical safety of products, and we have tested some of these. I think the convenience store beer room is more in my price range though.
BTW, aren't you in Canada? In my book, there is about 10 months of the year where just stepping outside = freeze my tail off.
I just had to chime in on this one. I'm in Canada too, and it's about 88F here right now. (31C) I am not chilly today!
Yeah, It looks like you beat chilly by about 13 degrees. Of course, I'm guessing at 5 am, which is when I get up, it probably was pretty chilly there.0 -
cstehansen wrote: »@ladipoet - First, WOW about losing 167 lbs! That is AWESOME!!!
I was stuck living in northeast Ohio for 11 winters. During that time, I started wearing thermal top and bottom every day starting in early October and going through late May. My next door neighbor just referred to me as "the freeze baby" as I had on full winter attire as I did the last lawn mowing of the year and he was wearing shorts and a tank top. So thankful to be back in Texas where I belong.
Lol, you Southerners!Sunny_Bunny_ wrote: »cstehansen wrote: »cstehansen wrote: »
Anyway, as I have looked into this, one thing that may help is actually "cold therapy" which I can only describe as an anti-sauna. Essentially, it seems there is some evidence that spending 10-20 minutes a day in cold will make your body convert white fat to brown fat. I have not been able to find the original research articles on this yet, but have seen/heard it referenced a few times now, so I will keep looking.
This is interesting and I am eager to hear what you find out. If you need a "cold place" even in summer, make friends with your local gas station attendent and ask if you can walk in their freezer for a few minutes a day and just stand there (in full sight). Or go to your local Costco or grocery store with a walk in type freezer. I know this because grocery shopping at costco is painful when I have to go into the milk/veggie area
I may not do this exactly, but it did give me an idea. Several of the convenience stores around here have a walk in refrigerated beer section. Hanging out in there for several minutes doesn't seem like a bad idea.
I think I read a detailed abstract of that study, but I don't remember where. (Maybe Mark's Daily Apple had a link to pubmed for the actual paper?) Basically, it wasn't nearly as extreme as hanging out in a walk-in freezer. As I recall it was a fairly small group of men (maybe 10?). I seem to recall they were middle aged and office workers. (That is actually important because there are other studies that show people who labor outside for a job have high brown fat already.).
The men were exposed to 60 f temps for 30 mins a couple times a week for several months wearing light clothes. My understanding is they were cold, but not cold enough to shiver (because then you are heating yourself up by shivering rather than encouraging the production of brown fat to keep you warm).
Tim Ferris claims that an ice pack across the back & shoulders also encourages brown fat increases. That was from an n=1 study where the result was fat loss. So because he lost more fat that way, he inferred that he must have increased his brown fat.
I thought it was the act of shivering that stimulated development of brown fat???
I can't remember where I had read about it. Actually maybe it was a podcast. Quite a while back.
I remember thinking I wanted to do the cold shower thing for the benefit but I can't stand being cold. It's actually painful. All my muscles tense up so much that it hurts.
If what you're saying is all it takes, with the way my husband controls the thermostat in the winter I had several months of being cold but just warmer than shivering! Lol
A quick jolt of cold stimulates certain hormonal releases that improve health and by extension, help with weight loss, as I recall. Mark Sisson talks about it somewhere. It's a "good stress" kind of thing.
I think the cold shower thing works kind of like weight lifting -- your tolerance level is what matters, not the objective number.1 -
cstehansen wrote: »@ladipoet - First, WOW about losing 167 lbs! That is AWESOME!!!
I was stuck living in northeast Ohio for 11 winters. During that time, I started wearing thermal top and bottom every day starting in early October and going through late May. My next door neighbor just referred to me as "the freeze baby" as I had on full winter attire as I did the last lawn mowing of the year and he was wearing shorts and a tank top. So thankful to be back in Texas where I belong. Thanks @cstehansen! 0 -
I got cold fingers and feet while fasting, did some extra salty bone broth with some potassium for good measure, and before I knew it I was comfortable again. (This while inside a 70F house.)
But yea, losing that padding does tend to make you reach for a jacket sooner and gloves are your friend as well.
There is a cheese warehouse near me, they keep jackets for people who can't handle their cold room. Guess I will pass on the jacket next time I am there. I already go into Costco's veg/fruit cooler room, will also take off my jacket going there.
Anyone know the protocol for that cold pack on your back? We have one of those from when hubby needed for a back injury.1 -
cstehansen wrote: »canadjineh wrote: »cstehansen wrote: »cstehansen wrote: »
Anyway, as I have looked into this, one thing that may help is actually "cold therapy" which I can only describe as an anti-sauna. Essentially, it seems there is some evidence that spending 10-20 minutes a day in cold will make your body convert white fat to brown fat. I have not been able to find the original research articles on this yet, but have seen/heard it referenced a few times now, so I will keep looking.
This is interesting and I am eager to hear what you find out. If you need a "cold place" even in summer, make friends with your local gas station attendent and ask if you can walk in their freezer for a few minutes a day and just stand there (in full sight). Or go to your local Costco or grocery store with a walk in type freezer. I know this because grocery shopping at costco is painful when I have to go into the milk/veggie area
I may not do this exactly, but it did give me an idea. Several of the convenience stores around here have a walk in refrigerated beer section. Hanging out in there for several minutes doesn't seem like a bad idea.
https://sparklinghill.com/cold-chamber
I have heard of these places. I work for a company that tests the electrical safety of products, and we have tested some of these. I think the convenience store beer room is more in my price range though.
BTW, aren't you in Canada? In my book, there is about 10 months of the year where just stepping outside = freeze my tail off.
Yep I am.... I live a half hour drive from Sparkling Hill. I haven't tried the cryo spa yet but want to. Actually we are just on the Northern edge of the Sonoran Desert. It was 26C here yesterday. Winter is only really mid Dec-mid Feb. But I'm cold all the time anyhow. I wore a sweatshirt and Capri jeans yesterday and was just comfy lol.1
