Help Interpret my lipid panel w/suggestions

JedsMom63
JedsMom63 Posts: 32 Member
Got my lipid lanel back and I know some numbers are good but some others are concerning to me. Would like help and suggestions.

I started keto mid February. Have lost 30 lbs. need to lose 40 more.

H1c - 5.4
Total cholesterol- 294
HDL-c 50
Triglycerides- 81
HDL-p (total) 26.3
Small LDL-p. 1290
LDL size - 21.3
LDL-p 2921
LDL-c 228

I have cut out all sugars Limit carbs to 20 or less. Eat limited processed packaged things (like lunch meat) I stick to meat. Very few veggies. Some hard cheeses. And bacon eggs an kerrygold :)

Doctors suggestion was to lose weight (duh) and walk or some form of exercise (which I'm doing) he also wanted to up my pravastantion (which I have stopped taking altogether beginning of march)

Replies

  • RalfLott
    RalfLott Posts: 5,036 Member
    edited May 2017
    I mean no disrespect to the inventors of Framingham and Reynolds scoring, but IMHO they seem like back-of-the-envelope estimators; better than nothing, but prone to misassessment of actual risk. CRP, triglycerides and HDL are better, but trigs and CRP can hop around a fair amount (which your risk level shouldn't), and the standard lipid panels only give you part of the story. The NMR sub-particle analysis fills in some blanks. @JedsMom63, Tara Dall and Thomas Dayspring have a few videos on the myHDLinc YouTube channel that review advanced lipoprotein test results. The ranges they use might not match those of your lab... Thomas Dayspring's crash course on lipids & lipoproteins and a few other vids (one by Chris Kresser included) for us unwashed end-users:

    www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLrlCcUWvravoCtZxuVqmMo9ENvRlgbsXv


    However, actually looking at the same arteries the various cardiac risk estimators are guessing about seems like it might be a better way to go. (CAC CT scan - $99 off the street in my neighborhood.)

    Ivor Cummins - Short version:
    https://youtu.be/kxUGlZTcDis

    Full vid:
    https://youtu.be/xiUNNJrTDRQ
  • JedsMom63
    JedsMom63 Posts: 32 Member
    Thank you for your responses. I will look into the info offered.

    I was just wondering if anyone seen anything alarming in the results. And if so, suggestions.
  • RalfLott
    RalfLott Posts: 5,036 Member
    edited May 2017
    JedsMom63 wrote: »
    Thank you for your responses. I will look into the info offered.

    I was just wondering if anyone seen anything alarming in the results. And if so, suggestions.

    I'm not a doctor. These are my off-the-cuff personal reactions based on the ranges used by the lab that did my last tests. They may not match yours.

    HbA1c - 5.4 HIGH - MILD DIABETES
    see http://www.rajeun.net/HbA1c_glucose.html

    Total cholesterol- 294
    HDL-c 50
    Triglycerides- 81
    HDL-p (total) 26.3 ... LOW (HIGHER RISK)
    Small LDL-p. 1290 ... HIGH (HIGHER RISK)
    LDL size - 21.3 ... HIGH (LOWER RISK)
    LDL-p 2921 ... HIGH (HIGHER RISK)
    LDL-c 228 ... HIGH (HIGHER RISK)


    IF it were me...

    I would definitely get a CAC CT Scan (see above).

    A doctor's order is not usually required in the US, but it's not usually covered by insurance. Prices for the exact same test vary widely, so it's best to check around.
  • JedsMom63
    JedsMom63 Posts: 32 Member
    Ok. Thank you. Will check into the testing you have suggested Have read some of that article and will go back and read again. I suspect my A1c was way higher before the diet change. Doctor didn't want to do that test but this last time I insisted. With the LDL's though, didn't I read somewhere that they may be high until I get down to my settled weight? I can't find that info now for some reason :blush:
  • RalfLott
    RalfLott Posts: 5,036 Member
    JedsMom63 wrote: »
    Ok. Thank you. Will check into the testing you have suggested Have read some of that article and will go back and read again. I suspect my A1c was way higher before the diet change. Doctor didn't want to do that test but this last time I insisted. With the LDL's though, didn't I read somewhere that they may be high until I get down to my settled weight? I can't find that info now for some reason :blush:

    Yes, good catch! Lipids do tend to behave unusually in ketosis until your weight has stabilized and you've been in maintenance mode for a while. Stephen Phinney regularly emphasizes this point.

    (Realistically, it may be that many standard test ranges and risk breakdowns can't be sensibly applied to people in ketosis. Dr. Westman, for example, reckoned an OGTT visited on someone who's been in ketosis is likely to show a pronounced glucose spike that may not be at all indicative of what the pattern would be like otherwise....)

    Having had one CAC already, I think it will be more useful to compare my next CAC to the first one to see how things are progressing rather than theorize in %-ages on the basis of blood tests.

    I had hoped for a score of 0, so I could just chuck the *kitten* statin, but it was not to be. I blew a 31 (mild calcification) in one artery, which puts me squarely into the gray zone of "extreme cardiac risk" with a new LDL target of < 55 (according to the AACE, but not the AHA). Of course, lowering cholesterol, as @cstehansen noted, is not necessarily a great thing for your cogmition and mental health. :s

    A quandary....
  • RalfLott
    RalfLott Posts: 5,036 Member
    Here are a couple interesting articles on advanced lipoprotein analysis:

    Comparison of four methods of analysis of lipoprotein particle subfractions for their association with angiographic progression of coronary artery disease
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3990359/
    Conclusion
    Four methodologies confirm the association of small, dense LDL with greater coronary atherosclerosis progression, and GGE, NMR, and ion mobility confirm that the associations were independent of standard lipid measurements.

    Effects of a very high saturated fat diet on LDL particles in adults with atherogenic dyslipidemia: A randomized controlled trial
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5293238/

    Increasing saturated fat intake may not be a good idea for people with a predominance of small LDL particles (LDL phenotype B ).
    In conclusion, we found that the increase in LDL-C resulting from very high saturated fat intake in individuals with a preponderance of small LDL was associated with an increase in apoB, and total, medium-sized, and small LDL particles. These results, in conjunction with previous studies, suggest that saturated fat may have heterogeneous effects on levels of atherogenic LDL particles that may depend on the amount of saturated fat consumed, the dietary context, particularly concomitant carbohydrate intake, and/or predisposition to atherogenic dyslipidemia.

    @cstehansen @GaleHawkins @JedsMom63
  • GaleHawkins
    GaleHawkins Posts: 8,159 Member
    I am bushed having just came in from bush hogging but here are my raw NMR lipid data that I has posted after I had the test the last part of May 2017 I think. I need to start getting my head around this subject since I have new lab working coming up 22 Aug 2017 and see the doctor the following week.

    NMR LipoProf+Graph
    LDL-P 2402 High nmol/
    Low < 1000 Moderate 1000 - 1299 Borderline-High 1300 - 1599 High 1600 - 2000
    Very High > 2000

    LDL-C 221 High mg/dL

    HDL-C 69 mg/dL >39 BN
    Triglycerides 75 mg/dL 0-149 BN
    Cholesterol, Total 305 High mg/dL
    HDL-P (Total) 30.7 umol/L >=30.5 BN
    Small LDL-P 525 nmol/L <=527 BN
    LDL Size 21.8 nm >20.5 BN

    LP-IR Score <25 <=45 BN
    INSULIN RESISTANCE MARKER
    <--Insulin Sensitive Insulin Resistant-->
    Percentile in Reference Population Insulin Resistance Score
    LP-IR Score Low 25th 50th 75th High
    <27 27 45 63 >63
    LP-IR Score is inaccurate if patient is non-fasting.

    As you can see the LDL-P and LDL-C are over the top but the other NMR numbers are within normal limits at least.
  • RalfLott
    RalfLott Posts: 5,036 Member
    I am bushed having just came in from bush hogging but here are my raw NMR lipid data that I has posted after I had the test the last part of May 2017 I think. I need to start getting my head around this subject since I have new lab working coming up 22 Aug 2017 and see the doctor the following week.

    NMR LipoProf+Graph
    LDL-P 2402 High nmol/
    Low < 1000 Moderate 1000 - 1299 Borderline-High 1300 - 1599 High 1600 - 2000
    Very High > 2000

    LDL-C 221 High mg/dL

    HDL-C 69 mg/dL >39 BN
    Triglycerides 75 mg/dL 0-149 BN
    Cholesterol, Total 305 High mg/dL
    HDL-P (Total) 30.7 umol/L >=30.5 BN
    Small LDL-P 525 nmol/L <=527 BN
    LDL Size 21.8 nm >20.5 BN

    LP-IR Score <25 <=45 BN
    INSULIN RESISTANCE MARKER
    <--Insulin Sensitive Insulin Resistant-->
    Percentile in Reference Population Insulin Resistance Score
    LP-IR Score Low 25th 50th 75th High
    <27 27 45 63 >63
    LP-IR Score is inaccurate if patient is non-fasting.

    As you can see the LDL-P and LDL-C are over the top but the other NMR numbers are within normal limits at least.

    Well, looks pretty good to me.

    Your Small LDL-P is low, and your LDL Size is large. I got from my diabetes doc (a good guy) that if those two are in good shape, then the total LDL-P and LDL-C are not independently worrisome. So in your case, he would say that your NMR has clarified that the LDL = 221 you would have gotten from a standard lipid panel is in fact not that big a deal.
  • GaleHawkins
    GaleHawkins Posts: 8,159 Member
    Thanks @RalfLott
  • cstehansen
    cstehansen Posts: 1,984 Member
    thanks for the tag @RalfLott

    I have saved those links to read when I have more time.
  • RalfLott
    RalfLott Posts: 5,036 Member
    My pleasure. Common to both studies is Ronald Krauss.

    http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10547659/scientific-american-saturated-fat-carbs-and-heart-disease

    He is good to hear on lipid issues, as he studiously avoids painting with a broad brush. He was very good with Rhonda Patrick and had to walk Mark Hyman back off some crude overgeneralizations.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7gZt9DQqtZI


  • RalfLott
    RalfLott Posts: 5,036 Member
    Bump for @Aquawave.
  • RalfLott
    RalfLott Posts: 5,036 Member
    edited July 2017
    Sarah Hallberg explains the NMR Lipoprofile.

    https://youtu.be/TB_SF10kosQ