Vitamins
Replies
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KnitOrMiss wrote: »@GaleHawkins - what is the protocol for mega-dosing D3 for MS? I have several friends who suffer this!
Dr. Coimbra may have been the pioneer of mega D3 for MS. This first link is just a starting point.
vitamindprotocol.com/dr.-coimbra-s-ms-protocol.html
Dr. Coimbra has no problem stating publicly that he sees 10,000 IUs per day as the "physiological dose" of D3 that is safe for any adult to take. He also states the current US RDA of a maximum of 800 IUs for vitamin D is a "paltry" amount of D3. The commonly prescribed daily dose of vitamin D3 on Coimbra's protocol ranges from 40,000 to 200,000 IU's. He uses a formula of 1,000 IU's per kilogram [one kilogram is 2.2 pounds] to find the upper range doses.
This is one factor that I never caught over the last few years.
Effect of High-Dose Vitamin D3 Intake on Ambulation, Muscular Pain and Bone Mineral Density in a Woman with Multiple Sclerosis: A 10-Year Longitudinal Case Report
https://ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3497336/
under 5. Conclusions
" If vitamin D levels are checked in winter and the level is deficient, lower than 75 nmol/L, it is simply too late to correct the deficiency because it takes months to synthesize the enzymes necessary for an optimal vitamin D metabolism [57]."
I had no idea that enzymes had to be synthesized over time for optimal Vit D3 metabolism to fully kick in. I did not find that textbook online but as a 'guess' if we have been taking 5000-10,000+ Vit D3 dosage that we have the enzymes in place. If someone can find the Yes/No answer please share.
Below relates to dose in one study.
lifeextension.com/protocols/neurological/multiple-sclerosis/page-02
"In another large dose Vitamin D trial, MS patients given 28,000- 280,000 IU weekly were found to have fewer active lesions during the 28 week long study (Kimball, 2007)."
The MOTHER Load
thisisms.com/forum/coimbra-high-dose-vitamin-d-protocol-f57/topic27182.html
Also read the above if you have any of the below. They are hyper linked in the site above.
6º Some Testimonials
Multiple Sclerosis Testimonials
Multiple Sclerosis Video Testimonials (English Subtitle)
Psoriasis Testimonials
Inflammatory bowel disease Testimonials
Devic's disease Testimonials
Scleroderma Testimonials
Rheumatoid Arthritis Testimonials
Pemphigus Vulgaris Testimonials
Lupus Testimonials
Vitiligo Testimonials
Atopic Dermatitis Testimonials
Lyme disease Testimonials
Asthma and Bronchitis Testimonials
Myasthenia Gravis Testimonials
Behcet's disease Testimonials
Herpes Testimonials
Note: There are much more testimonials on Facebook Groups.
https://facebook.com/vitamindprotocol/
I have to shut down now but the links can give one days of reading materials. I have to now drill down on Lupus for family soon.
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I take vitamins - through the FOOD I eat0
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Lucky you. Do you know for sure, for sure (medical blood tests, etc.,) that you are not deficient in any of them?
It's all very well making those claims, but with respect, it's an assumption if you have nothing with which to verify that....?
I know I wouldn't be able to take everything I constantly need, in, on diet alone at the moment. Some days yes, some days no.5 -
Re: carpal tunnel syndrome risk has a tentative link to diabetes and hypothyroidism. Might want to check those things out too.2
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boron definitely helps with recovery time, that was very obvious when I started taking it...if I did something to make it flair it would take about 2-3 days to recover, with the boron it's less than a day and the pain is gone4
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AlexandraCarlyle wrote: »Lucky you. Do you know for sure, for sure (medical blood tests, etc.,) that you are not deficient in any of them?
It's all very well making those claims, but with respect, it's an assumption if you have nothing with which to verify that....?
I know I wouldn't be able to take everything I constantly need, in, on diet alone at the moment. Some days yes, some days no.
The nutrient content of animal- and plant-based foods has fallen off in lockstep with the great food engineering revolution of the last half-century. I'm with you - not going to take it on faith that what I eat has what it's supposed to!2 -
Aztec4Life wrote: »I take vitamins - through the FOOD I eat
What kind of food do you eat to keep Vitamin D level in the 50-75 range?3 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »Aztec4Life wrote: »I take vitamins - through the FOOD I eat
What kind of food do you eat to keep Vitamin D level in the 50-75 range?
.....and Vitamin K as well.2 -
Aztec4Life wrote: »I take vitamins - through the FOOD I eat
As you can see, it would be kind of you to elaborate.
Thank you!3 -
AlexandraCarlyle wrote: »Aztec4Life wrote: »I take vitamins - through the FOOD I eat
As you can see, it would be kind of you to elaborate.
Thank you!
Forgot to mention magnesium - right up there with Vitamin D as a widespread deficiency in the US diet. 2 -
Rhonda Patrick examines the idea that folks don't need micronutrient supplements:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o0u8UdZeOhc 1 -
I'm guessing (and purely a guess) that based on the profile for the poster who gets vitamins from food...he's had sufficient testing done over the months/couple years with particular emphasis on getting enough vitamins and minerals. That aside:
For myself, I don't take vitamins. I don't tend to go to the doc often but when I do and have my blood tested, I've never been deficient in any thing. And really, unless I feel ill or sluggish or whatever (which I don't or haven't) I personally place no any more faith in the dietary RDAs than I do in the other information that has been published over the years from the "powers that be". I mean really, a good portion of the threads in the forum are about how we have perhaps been mislead.
I do move forward eating a variety of meat, fish, dairy, eggs, vegetables, fruit and oil. I get some exercise and lget plenty of sunshine under the Carolina Blue Skies. Everyone doesn't have to take vitamins/supplements to not be "deficient". I realize a deficiency could happen to anyone at any point in time for any number of reasons. I also realize that many take various vitamins and supplements for many different reasons and find them to be effective. I read all the threads with interest.
I don't currently take vitamins/supplements. I may take some in the future. I think it is OK to choose to not supplement and it is OK to choose to supplement. May all feel great, whatever their choice.2 -
KnitOrMiss wrote: »
@CraftHer - Dr. Berg has instructed that unless you have a very specific condition, low calcium in the presence of low vitamin D is nearly always because D absorbs calcium, but it requires K2 to drive that bus to the muscles and bones (and OUT of the arteries), the magnesium and potassium are the passport, and boron and zinc strengthen the cell walls and keep it where it needs to go. He says that hardly anyone needs to add Calcium unless on a specific and well-monitored dietary protocol (monitored by medical professionals). He says if you MUST take calcium, make sure to take it at night away from everything else so as not to overdose. Taking A and E 12 hours offset from your D can prevent accidental toxicity as well.
99% of my radiating bone pain and restless legs are handled by increasing my boron and adding zinc.
If you are adding B1 and B12 individually, you also need to make sure you are taking a B-Complex. Supplementing any B vitamin on it's own will slowly deplete the other B's. B1 is a nerve related thing, so getting nutritional yeast might also help (which probably contribute to the RLS, too). Dr. Berg has protocols for getting the nutritional yeast to help with nerve issues.
With the iron and B12 specifically, if you don't have a high enough stomach acid (if you have heartburn, you're likely missing one of the components, causing your body to overproduce the others to compensate), you are unlikely to ever be able to break these down naturally and be able to absorb them (I have no gallbladder, so all of my digestion is impacted, and I have to use special enzymes to help).
The others on the secondary list, I don't know much about...
TL;DR - Add K2 to go with the D/Calcium. Add Boron and Zinc for legs. Make sure getting B-Complex with B's/maybe pair with nutritional yeast. Check stomach acid levels/supplement as needed.
@KnitOrMiss
Thanks so much for your detailed response. I'm not familiar with Dr. Berg so I will be reading up on his website. The low calcium and low vitamin D was determined by recent blood work. I'll have that blood work again at the end of the month. I do take my calcium and iron separately (calcuim in the AM and iron in the PM). I wouldn't have thought that overdosing on calcium would be a risk since I'm in my 50s. I'm anxious to see what my blood work will say at the end of the month. There's just so much conflicting information it's hard to figure out what will work for me
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I will look into taking boron and zinc for restless leg. It's really becoming disruptive to my sleep and happening earlier in the evening. I have a feeling it's an imbalance of something.
I don't absorb B12 correctly so I take shots once a month. The B1 is a pill and I have blood work for that one, too. I don't know much about nutritional yeast so I will add the to my list of things to research. Fortunately, I don't get heartburn.
Thanks again for your response.2 -
B vitamin complex
D (with k)
Tons of iron of all kinds paired with C as I am always terribly low on iron and fight to get it to hold a low normal range even when I do get it a few points higher.
Topical magnesium to help prevent migraine.
Iodine and Brazil nuts for their selenium content. I am experimenting to see what these do in regards to my hypothyroidism.1 -
KnitOrMiss wrote: »
@CraftHer - Dr. Berg has instructed that unless you have a very specific condition, low calcium in the presence of low vitamin D is nearly always because D absorbs calcium, but it requires K2 to drive that bus to the muscles and bones (and OUT of the arteries), the magnesium and potassium are the passport, and boron and zinc strengthen the cell walls and keep it where it needs to go. He says that hardly anyone needs to add Calcium unless on a specific and well-monitored dietary protocol (monitored by medical professionals). He says if you MUST take calcium, make sure to take it at night away from everything else so as not to overdose. Taking A and E 12 hours offset from your D can prevent accidental toxicity as well.
99% of my radiating bone pain and restless legs are handled by increasing my boron and adding zinc.
If you are adding B1 and B12 individually, you also need to make sure you are taking a B-Complex. Supplementing any B vitamin on it's own will slowly deplete the other B's. B1 is a nerve related thing, so getting nutritional yeast might also help (which probably contribute to the RLS, too). Dr. Berg has protocols for getting the nutritional yeast to help with nerve issues.
With the iron and B12 specifically, if you don't have a high enough stomach acid (if you have heartburn, you're likely missing one of the components, causing your body to overproduce the others to compensate), you are unlikely to ever be able to break these down naturally and be able to absorb them (I have no gallbladder, so all of my digestion is impacted, and I have to use special enzymes to help).
The others on the secondary list, I don't know much about...
TL;DR - Add K2 to go with the D/Calcium. Add Boron and Zinc for legs. Make sure getting B-Complex with B's/maybe pair with nutritional yeast. Check stomach acid levels/supplement as needed.
@KnitOrMiss
Thanks so much for your detailed response. I'm not familiar with Dr. Berg so I will be reading up on his website. The low calcium and low vitamin D was determined by recent blood work. I'll have that blood work again at the end of the month. I do take my calcium and iron separately (calcuim in the AM and iron in the PM). I wouldn't have thought that overdosing on calcium would be a risk since I'm in my 50s. I'm anxious to see what my blood work will say at the end of the month. There's just so much conflicting information it's hard to figure out what will work for me.
I will look into taking boron and zinc for restless leg. It's really becoming disruptive to my sleep and happening earlier in the evening. I have a feeling it's an imbalance of something.
I don't absorb B12 correctly so I take shots once a month. The B1 is a pill and I have blood work for that one, too. I don't know much about nutritional yeast so I will add the to my list of things to research. Fortunately, I don't get heartburn.
Thanks again for your response.
Up your fluid intake to around 2l/day. Add apple cider vinegar, Bicarbonate of soda and if you're not taking supplements and/or eating potassium-rich foods, some cream of tartar powder. I take a 1-litre bottle of water, add 5 tbsps ACV, 1 tsp Bicarb of Soda and a half-teaspoon MAXIMUM of cream of tartar powder.
This is particularly good if you're fasting.
Also, take grains of Himalayan salt, regularly throughout the day.
I used to get chronic cramp that kept me up, weeping in pain half the night, on a regular basis. Restless leg was also a constant, irritating, debilitating, sleep-depriving companion.
Since doing the above, they have left my life for good, and I vow to never let them return.
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@AlexandraCarlyle
I hope you don't think I making excuses, but I think I've tried so much over the past several months. It's so frustrating and getting worse. I believe there is something out of balance and I cannot find out what that is.
I upped my water intake at the first signs and it hasn't helped my legs. Although I do still drink the water. It also helps me cut out the carbonated drinks because there just isn't room. I can't take ACV. It just tears up my stomach. I've watered it down and added sweetener to varying degrees and I nearly throw up every time and feel sick for quite a while.
I will try this again with the recipe you mention. Do you drink this throughout the day or at (or near) bedtime? How long before you noticed a change?
I've tried sea salt but not himalayan salt. The sea salt didn't work. I've also tried potassium supplements and they didn't help, either. I took 99mg for about 3 weeks.
I had a thought yesterday about thyroid. I'm usually low thyroid but the np wanted to really bring my thyroid up the balance out my other hormones. This started roughly about the same time my legs went squirrelly. I started several new things at that time so I'm not sure what, if anything, is related. (low carb, walking, metformin, loosing weight (yeah!)).
I appreciate your reply. Thanks.1 -
tcunbeliever wrote: »Boron - forgot that one, I'm taking that for carpal tunnel too...
Does boron seem make a difference?
@RalfLott - Boron has stopped my radiating bone pain that my doctor repeatedly tested me for Lupus with, since she had no other explanation. I SWEAR by it...
My favorite "getting started" boron reference. (And yes, I started with borax - yes - laundry/cleaning/poison-warning MULE TEAM BORAX - dissolved in water before I wanted to increase dosage and switched to capsules.) http://www.health-science-spirit.com/borax.htm1 -
@AlexandraCarlyle
I hope you don't think I making excuses, but I think I've tried so much over the past several months. It's so frustrating and getting worse. I believe there is something out of balance and I cannot find out what that is.
I upped my water intake at the first signs and it hasn't helped my legs. Although I do still drink the water. It also helps me cut out the carbonated drinks because there just isn't room. I can't take ACV. It just tears up my stomach. I've watered it down and added sweetener to varying degrees and I nearly throw up every time and feel sick for quite a while.
I will try this again with the recipe you mention. Do you drink this throughout the day or at (or near) bedtime? How long before you noticed a change?
I've tried sea salt but not himalayan salt. The sea salt didn't work. I've also tried potassium supplements and they didn't help, either. I took 99mg for about 3 weeks.
I had a thought yesterday about thyroid. I'm usually low thyroid but the np wanted to really bring my thyroid up the balance out my other hormones. This started roughly about the same time my legs went squirrelly. I started several new things at that time so I'm not sure what, if anything, is related. (low carb, walking, metformin, loosing weight (yeah!)).
I appreciate your reply. Thanks.
ACV can also be taken in pill form, just as point of reference, in case you want to try that, though if it is the acidic nature of the ACV that is the problem, I'd skip it. I had to drop mine altogether when it it started created breathing problems, acid reflux, and major digestive problems - and I have no gallbladder, so I MUST take digestive enzymes.
And I don't want to question your NP at all, but please do your own thyroid research. Once the TSH indicates a thyroid issue, it has likely been building up for 5-15 years. Thyroid problems do not generally resolve on their own, even with co-factors/nutrient therapy without accompanying dietary restrictions/therapy and a number of other issues!! As a hypothyroid patient for the last decade and then some who has done extensive research, I just know that many things I've been told have been later proven incorrect. So please do research to validate what you're being told as well as to bring up other points for discussion... There are many thyroid related short term therapies that can help bridge the gap while healing other issues without creating any kind of "have to take it forever" situations...
Of course in re-reading this before click post - it seems like you might have started on some thyroid therapy and that might have triggered the issues? Too high a dose or the wrong type of medication (some do better with synthetics, some do better with natural medications) can cause all manner of bodily chaos with thyroid stuff!!!0 -
@AlexandraCarlyle
I hope you don't think I making excuses, but I think I've tried so much over the past several months. It's so frustrating and getting worse. I believe there is something out of balance and I cannot find out what that is.
I upped my water intake at the first signs and it hasn't helped my legs. Although I do still drink the water. It also helps me cut out the carbonated drinks because there just isn't room. I can't take ACV. It just tears up my stomach. I've watered it down and added sweetener to varying degrees and I nearly throw up every time and feel sick for quite a while.
I will try this again with the recipe you mention. Do you drink this throughout the day or at (or near) bedtime? How long before you noticed a change?
I've tried sea salt but not himalayan salt. The sea salt didn't work. I've also tried potassium supplements and they didn't help, either. I took 99mg for about 3 weeks.
I had a thought yesterday about thyroid. I'm usually low thyroid but the np wanted to really bring my thyroid up the balance out my other hormones. This started roughly about the same time my legs went squirrelly. I started several new things at that time so I'm not sure what, if anything, is related. (low carb, walking, metformin, loosing weight (yeah!)).
I appreciate your reply. Thanks.
Ah, good ol' ACV. I love the taste of that stuff, but……you're not the only one who can't drink it. If I start drinking ACV (no matter how diluted) my resting pulse goes from around 58-61 bpm to 127 bpm. Weeeeeee, no sleep for meeeeee when I take that stuff.3 -
upping vitamin D has been very beneficial for me. Also taking daily doses of vitamins C and E. I'm also on my feet all day. And I do mean, all day.
I work mainly at a checkout, but I have no seat. I am basically walking to and fro' all day, and I get to sit at break time.
Even once I get home, I'm standing, cooking and washing up.
So my legs get exercise all day.
Exercise, walking and tiring the legs, keeping up with vitamin intake and of course fluids, is also important.3 -
https://authoritynutrition.com/vitamin-d-weight-loss/
I have been reading about and trying to get my numbers to the top of the normal range for several years but never caught that Vit D was talked about as a weight loss tool.0
This discussion has been closed.