IF and LCHF and T2D
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Sunny_Bunny_ wrote: »If the alternate day fasting people weren't fat adapted that study is completely irrelevant as that alone explains the protein sparing effect.
That sounds like the same kind of broad hypothesis stated as fact the the main stream nutrition people would use. Perhaps getting some actual data would be appropriate before making such a statement. After all, many of Dr. Fung's patients are also keto in addition to fasting and have positive results. That is clinical and not trial, but it is the only available evidence.
All I am saying is we are all fed up with the main stream nutritionists being dogmatic when stating hypotheses as fact so we shouldn't do it either.
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cstehansen wrote: »Sunny_Bunny_ wrote: »If the alternate day fasting people weren't fat adapted that study is completely irrelevant as that alone explains the protein sparing effect.
That sounds like the same kind of broad hypothesis stated as fact the the main stream nutrition people would use. Perhaps getting some actual data would be appropriate before making such a statement. After all, many of Dr. Fung's patients are also keto in addition to fasting and have positive results. That is clinical and not trial, but it is the only available evidence.
All I am saying is we are all fed up with the main stream nutritionists being dogmatic when stating hypotheses as fact so we shouldn't do it either.
You're making just as broad statements as I am.
I'm really just saying you can't apply a study to support the idea that isn't done on fat adapted people anyway. Im not really making any firm claims. I'm just stating my thoughts based on what people I've spoken to have told me and again, that studies done on non fat adapted cant really be used to support the claim you're making.
As far as I'm aware, there are no specific studies on Fungs patients and also no before and after photos to support his idea that the skin just goes away because of autophagy.
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The skin doesn't 'just go away'. The photos in this article prove it. And there is a video on here somewhere about a fitness Guru's talk on this WoE, and his 'Hero'; a young man who lost all his excess weight on LCHF, who they then introduce to the audience, but also show pictures where clearly, he has had an abdominal op to remove...'excess baggage'...1
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Sunny_Bunny_ wrote: »As far as I'm aware, there are no specific studies on Fungs patients and also no before and after photos to support his idea that the skin just goes away because of autophagy.
That's my understanding as well. He's stated that he's never needed to refer a patient for loose skin surgery after weight loss, even patients who lost 100+ pounds, and hypothesizes about autophagy, but there's nothing concrete there.
For me, so far, ADF combined with keto seems like a great match and I'll just keep my fingers crossed about the loose skin.
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AlexandraCarlyle wrote: »The skin doesn't 'just go away'. The photos in this article prove it.
Nothing in that article references the guy fasting though.0 -
Oh yes, @radiii, I see your point; but I was referring more to the skin 'going away'... if it doesn't go away on an altered diet, and focusing on LCHF/P, I don't see how fasting into the bargain, would miraculously change that. That was all....
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Yes, this thread seems done, but I still want to add.
As far as protein consumption/sparing when fasting, 2keto dudes have a few blogs. The first talks about and has a calculator for how much protein you might lose.
http://blog.2keto.com/protein-loss/
This next blog talks about why fasting is more difficult for us thin people and has a calculator for determining fat supplementation while fasting to maintain autophagy while sparing muscle.
http://blog.2keto.com/why-fasting-is-easier-for-some-people/
I had been low carb for years when I found out I was T2D. Now I do stricter Keto and fast. My fasts average to about 36 hr, 1-2 per week. That keeps my CBG <110 and usually 70-90. I can’t Do longer because my body fat is about 20% and I start getting a bit crazy/grumpy when I am in the 40 hr range, but without the fasting my CBG won’t stay within the range of a non-diabetic person which is my goal. I could probably supplement with fat, but don’t want to.1 -
I always want someone (read: anyone with education and science to do it right and explain it to us lay-folks) to do a post about fasting without a gallbladder aka WITH A CONSTANT TRICKLE OF BILE THAT TURNS TO ... backside lava after about the 6-8 hour point without food intake. *cries* I enjoyed fasting, but I could have bought stock in diaper cream...1
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I’m not doing IF. I was diagnosed as prediabetic without officially having it on my chart. I’m allergic to metformin and they tried no other drugs on me. I ignored the prediabetic diagnosis since I wasn’t exactly told. I didn’t know that much about glucose levels besides what’s healthy for a diabetic due to my adoptive family having different diabetics in it. T2 and T1. A year or so later my glucose was high enough when I finally bought a testing kit to be considered diabetic but still in the early phase. So I decided to do keto dieting. I lost my glucose meter for a bit. I put it in a coat pocket of one I only wear on rainy days. Since I found it I’m totally in the normal range being on the LCHF dieting whether truly in ketosis or not. Now my PCP don’t actually know I was ever diagnosed. Until the last visit which insurance won’t pay they wanted test my sugar and everything you can think of all at once. I don’t have $511 for what insurance won’t pay and it’s truly cheaper to do it elsewhere for only $233 without using any insurance for every test he wants with blood sugar level being the only exception. I can just bring my own meter in and show him. But I’m glad I don’t have it at the moment even if I am on a diet and haven’t broken off it lately. I want to stick to it for at least 2 years before I get off it. In cases like mine it has been reversed doing LCHF for 2 years only. And it’s wonderful someone had an experience like that I read here. I didn’t read everything.1
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The 2 years is interesting...when I was doing keto for migraines no one had really studied it long term (it was just starting to be used as a migraine treatment)...but I did discover that in epileptic children treated with keto the effects were permanent after 2 years and the kids were switched to low-carb after that time with most of them having no return of symptoms, which has worked well for my migraines.
It's interesting that it seems to work for T2D, I hadn't heard that before, but it seems to fit the overall trend.0
