Strong Lifts 5x5

Pocket__Cthulhu

So...does anyone else use this simple program for their strength training? I have a friend who is very fit, and very knowledgeable, telling me that I don't need to lift so heavy and that "Getting stronger and getting in shape doesn't mean you do that."

I'm not sure if I should be mildly insulted or not? Or if I've been wasting my time?

heybales

It's a great simple program to tap out your existing muscles fast, confirm form, and call for more strength and damage during a workout - increasing metabolism for more repair work later.

The method is required no matter what is done - progressive overload. Whether that be 5x5, 3x10-12, or 2x15-20.
It's going to be heavy for the reps/sets that are done - you'll be just as out of breath and laboring to do the last few reps no matter what set/rep range is done.

I was back/hip injured last start of winter, and have been doing it again starting at bare bones weight just to confirm everything is alright, and sickness has knocked out many weeks, too busy a schedule knocking out too many sessions requiring a weight drop, or not doing that and needing to wait a week for soreness, ect. Taken until now to almost be hitting the 5x5 weight I was at last time. I started at 9 reps until I got close enough to start dropping reps as weight went up 5 lbs.

But as soon as I reach max weight or more than I hit couple years back doing program - I'm switching to a program I enjoy more that utilizes the fact I have more endurance muscle than strength muscle.
And is 2x weekly 3 day split, with 2x15 - which is still more volume than 5x5, plus hitting more muscles.

Definitely not a waste of time though - you can go very far if using the app with proper deloads, switching to 3x5 when time is right, ect.
Form on just 5 reps is usually easier to watch and maintain better, even when difficult.

I only wish I had done day after day at the start when it wasn't difficult on days I could, backing off when it got heavy finally. Now that was a waste of time.

cinblog1965

My workout schedule is here: http://www.myfitnesspal.com/blog/cinblog1965. I'm on my third week and I came up with the plan after reading EM2WL website. I do 4 sets and if I can do 10 reps correctly I increase weight. After the 4th week I'm going to change the exercises. This first round I concentrated on the bigger muscle groups and next round I plan to keep concentrating on the bigger muscles but also switch out one or two of the exercises for opposing muscles, i.e., I'm hitting triceps with pushups so I would like to add a bicep curl and I'll do a different style pushup. I try to keep my workouts around 40 minutes each.

My pounds may seem light to some but at 52 and haven't picked up weights in years this is where I am and I'm gaining strength. Hopefully it will move me to my goal but it will help either way. I've always been active but my workouts concentrated on tae kwon do until overuse injuries sidelined me. I was a couch potato for 5-6 years and at 45 my strength and endurance went downhill fast! But I'm finally feeling like my old self again. Truthfully, even if I didn't lose an inch, I would keep this up just because I feel so much better mentally and physically.

heybales

Just make sure that during startup of a routine you aren't giving too much attention to isolation movements.

Like biceps are worked with lat-pull downs and bent-over rows already, just as triceps are with bench and OHP already.

They require no specific work while you are still increasing weight for the bigger muscles, in fact they are usually the limiter to the bigger muscles. When you are attempting body building shows and need to SEE balanced muscle, perhaps useful then. But for actually overloading the body and getting new muscle and increasing metabolism through repair - bigger muscles are better, not tiring out supporting muscles. Which if they got overloaded working out the bigger muscle (back for bicep, chest for tricep), then the isolated isn't doing much for them anyway.

Suggestions on doing the planks between squats and lunges - those leg workouts require huge core usage and are a workout there too - you could easily cause some issues tiring it out not only by taking away rest time that big muscles need to recover between sets, but core being tired causing form issues on later reps in sets.

Circuit training style (short rests) is fine starting out - just be aware if you are going to keep progressing for the lifting and not the anaerobic nature of circuit training - you'll need that rest time between sets.

Many of the fit (not body builders) with 6-pack abs don't do any ab work, the core engagement of getting a lock on each squat and deadlift and OHP and bench uses your abs and core and provides an excellent workout.

Also, don't want to do the lat pull-down behind head, asking for impingement issues, especially as weight goes up.

And with lower body intervals proceeding the lower body lifting day - just examine closely if there is enough recovery since HIIT if done right is as close to lifting as you'll get with cardio workout - and deserves it's own 24 hr recovery too.
So if legs still sore from intervals and about to do lower body lifting - no good.

When you go into diet mode, especially not since recovery is hampered in a diet.

Just some thoughts - good program to keep advancing and hit many muscles, and enough reps to confirm form is doing well.

cinblog1965

Thank you @heybales, I'm valuing your input and looking for your replies to posts. I will keep this all in mind when I set up my next round. I do need the core exercises right now though (planks) as I squat or lunge enough weight to really help those areas and they need it. But as I go up in weight I will certainly pay attention and stop if it's impeding my goals.

I just use our employee gym which is loaded with dumbbells of call sizes, a cable machine, a weight bench and a lot of cardio equipment, along with a punching bag I asked for back when I was still doing tae kwon do. But hey, it's free :-)

Again, just want you to know I really thank you for your replies and am learning a lot.

heybales

Pretty cool they would add a bag for you - nice warmup. My arms and legs hurt just thinking about it. ;-)

Pocket__Cthulhu

@cinblog1965 thank you for posting your work out schedule! I'm not sure if I want to do so many reps of light weights. I like 5x5 SL because it's simple and I feel like it hits me just about everywhere.

However, I want to add in some lighter weights for the days I do go to the dojo(Aikido.) Wednesday is usually about a 4 hour class that I go to and I just can't squat 160 and then do seated techniques without pulling something. I also practice Iaido, which is 90% kneeling on the same day. I will try to piece together something like what you have going on for that day.

Has anyone had success just doing Strong Lifts for their weights? Or does everyone do these sort of split up exercises?

My Schedule:
Sunday - Dojo (1.5 hour practice)
Monday- 5x5 SL & 20-45 mins jogging
Tuesday -Rest
Wednesday- Dojo Hell Day (3.5-5 hour practice. Weapons, Open Hand, Iaido)
Thursday- Rest
Friday- 5x5 SL& 20-45 mins jogging
Saturday- Dojo (1.5-2 hour practice)

I feel like I can add somewhere, but I'd prefer to have my rest days where they are because of the intensity of the activities on Wednesday. Admittedly, sometimes I'm lazy or short on time and skip the running. I figure my Dojo gives me the cardio I need and don't stress much

Thank you haybales. I read your post and admittedly, I'm not quite sure I understand what the waste of time was? Not deloading?

heybales

Isolation lifts - just bicep or tricep for example. First 2 sentences is just about that part. Usually time and energy wasted that would be more beneficial elsewhere on compound moves working bigger muscles along with smaller ones.


I think those rest days look very needed, or your next day is likely to be a failure, especially Fri - and not in the good sense.

You'll likely find with that schedule you'll become jack of all trades, master of none.
Something just won't be as good as it could be, whether that be the lifting to encourage muscle growth, or the form for your movements or stamina for a full class.

And that may be fine and dandy - just means anything will take longer - just realize it, accept it, and embrace it.

Now if the long practices are partly standing waiting for your turn to do movements, so more like intervals with intense and then rest - not so bad. Plus full body, probably some stretching too I'd imagine, so likely beneficial for other reasons.

Strong Lifts is a good program too, few more things included and rep ranges. Move volume per week looking at total reps - and Time Under Tension (TUT) is needed to make improvements.

That's why the fadish method of 1 body part per day per week is going to fail so many people jumping on that bandwagon - that's for experienced lifter with many years.

Pocket__Cthulhu

The classes are not a lot of standing around. There's 4-5 minutes of practicing with a partner, and then the instructor pauses and demonstrates the next technique for about a minute before we go back to practice. There's a lot of falling, tumbling and throwing involved. I'm usually soaked from sweat by a third of the way in. I would compare it to intervals, although I have no way to measure the efficacy of it.

I'm okay with being a jack of all trades. Thank you for the input! I appreciate it!

cinblog1965

@Pocket__Cthulhu my workouts last 30 to 50 minutes. I just don't want to spend more time than that in the gym. I did tae kwon do for 12 years and although I loved it, it was 2-3 hours 5 nights a week and it was intense, sparring was an hour or longer of it. Kicks and bodyweight strength exercises most of the other hour. I had torn ligaments in my hip and a bad lower back problem from trying to throw kicks with that pain and throwing myself out of alignment. Just thinking of all your doing exhausts me in the shape im in now.

That may be light weights for you but i cant lift heavier yet, but ill get there. I sat on a couch the last 5 years. I am pushing myself though and I feel those muscles the day after a workout. I have every intention of mixing up sets and reps every couple months to keep my muscles guessing.

I'm going to take @heybales advise and stick with the larger muscles or compound movements. I like the split routines-upper or lower in a workout. I like to get in the gym most days so i dont get back in that couch spud habit. I also like leaving the gym feeling like I worked my hardest.

I've never heard of the strong lifts program, ill have to check it out. I read NROL for life but i dont have access to all the equipment the author says you have to have so i took some ideas from it including the idea of 4 sets with 7-12 reps.

cinblog1965

I think its important, at least for me, to have a clear goal so i dont waste a lot of time and effort on things that won't help me in the long run. I want to lose size, but i also want to be strong. I'd like to build up my shoulders because they are narrow. When I was sparring all the time and punching a bag I had great shoulders. I dont care to run a marathon or reach a certain weight. I dont need every muscle to pop out or not pop out. I also want to keep working on my flexibility to help my joints and livamengs.

Pocket__Cthulhu

If my work schedule let me go more often, I'd likely be in the dojo five days a week too. Unfortunately, I have to make due with what's available to me. I certainly meant no disrespect about the weights being light. I suppose since I saw the high reps I just assumed. I apologize

StrongLifts is a very simple and easy program to follow. Which is why I like it. You need access to a squat rack, a 45lb bar and the slides for it. Which can be expensive if you don't have access to a gym and make a home gym. I found out about it through the forums here, namely a thread with a title along the lines of "Halp! Lifting weights made me soo bulky."

It's a bunch of ladies who lift heavy.

I'm sorry about your injuries. I don't know what I'd do if I was told I couldn't practice anymore. It seems we started at about the same time. It'll be cool to see some one progressing with me.

cinblog1965

I didnt take it as a put down, no worries! Im from the old school of training. In the 80s you were told to do reps of 12-15, 3 sets, always for women to tone up. So when i was looking around and saw 7-10 reps I considered that low. I never read anything about the 5x5s but i want to keep my muscles guessing so i intend to change things up every 4 weeks. I may try the that down the road to go heavier. But I'm usually in the gym alone and working with dumbbells and a cable machine. I worry about getting too heavy on the dumbbells and not being able to hold them up on my shoulders or throwing my back out of line. So ill just have to see where my strength takes me. I loved karate until my energy and endurance started to disappear with onset of menopause. And the injuries didnt help. But its great exercise and a whole family you get from it.

I'm hoping I can talk my employer into adding a squat rack next gym upgrade. That will help.