Strikes at McDonald's, Wendy's to pay employees $15 hour.
Replies
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S glad I'm not American. Who would want to live such a selfish life that you don't want people being paid enough to surivive?
And I but most of you call yourselves Christians too. Interesting to see your faces when your God casts you to he'll for ignoring everything that he put down.0 -
First, I am NOT condoning or advocating $15/hr for entry-level fast food workers. However, I did want to clarify one point. A lot of people assuming that doubling wages would double (or more) the cost of the product. Totally not true. Worker wages are a relatively small piece of the expenses 'pie' for fast food establishment. I have heard of 2 studies that said that if large corporation fast food chains were to double the workers wages and pass 100% of those costs to the consumer, it would raise the price of the dollar menu item by roughly 17 cents. One of these studies actually asked a couple of mega chains to provide expense-type information to contradict the study, none of them did. Of course, they hid behind the lame excuse of "proprietary information" but these are publicly-traded companies, sooooo, I dunno....
You do realize that the price of the food at those restaurants would have to triple or quadruple to make up the labor costs, and the inevitable lost customers that refuse to pay $20 for a Big Mac.
Do I want to instant pay 17% more for my (rarely-eaten) fast food? No. However, I can help but wonder what would happen if one chain advertised it exactly as such. "Valued customers. We're raising our price 5% across the board to fully-fund a 20% increase in our workers wages. <insert touchy-feely marketing stuff here>..." If it were put to me that way, I might frequent that chain specifically for that reason and I think others would as well. Maybe a majority of customers, maybe not, but it would be an interesting "free market" experiment.
Nope, pretty sure I wouldn't anyway... because the would still have high turn over and they would still have people with crappy attitudes working there... and nasty stores.
However, I do rather shop at Costco rather than Sam's Club... in fact, I'm kinda annoyed we are getting a Sam's club near our house.0 -
[Minimum wage should be a living wage.
A living wage for whom? the high school students these jobs are pretty much designed for or the people that don't want to learn a trade or through circumstances that are mostly due to their own choices can't get a job anywhere else. BTW, I have already outlined two real world examples that show this that have been in the news earlier in this thread.0 -
S glad I'm not American. Who would want to live such a selfish life that you don't want people being paid enough to surivive?
And I but most of you call yourselves Christians too. Interesting to see your faces when your God casts you to he'll for ignoring everything that he put down.
There are plenty of people that can and do "survive" on $14k a year... it can be done. The problem is people don't want to. And I'm sorry, I worked my *kitten* off for a degree. I paid enough in loans to buy a house... why then should someone who has resigned themselves to flipping burgers get paid as much if not more than myself or my peers? Because they "deserve" it? No. here you get paid what the market can bare... and at that moment it's $7.25/hour for a NO skill job that has little to no prospect for advancement or mobility. You want to make a better wage THEN LEARN A SKILL.0 -
So, what we're saying is that it's more important to have cheap burgers than it is to pay someone a living wage.0
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So, what we're saying is that it's more important to have cheap burgers than it is to pay someone a living wage.
The consumer is saying it is more important to have cheap burgers then it is to have expensive burgers. A "living wage" is not part of that formula.0 -
I have a question for those who are against a "living wage" (not sure where I fall on this yet). A major point for these is that they are jobs meant for unskilled workers. Do you support government funds going toward establishing programs to teach the unskilled workers skills so that they can find viable employment?0
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So, what we're saying is that it's more important to have cheap burgers than it is to pay someone a living wage.
The consumer is saying it is more important to have cheap burgers then it is to have expensive burgers. A "living wage" is not part of that formula.
Exactly. If fast food workers are making more money than me, then I won't be able to buy fast food burgers. Then, where will these unskilled workers be?0 -
I have a question for those who are against a "living wage" (not sure where I fall on this yet). A major point for these is that they are jobs meant for unskilled workers. Do you support government funds going toward establishing programs to teach the unskilled workers skills so that they can find viable employment?
I am not against people earning what they are worth. If that equals what people think a "living wage" is then great. I think everyone has a different definition for that term. A living wage in the community I live is significantly higher then some rural area in the middle of the US. I do not think there should be a mandated "living wage" set by the US government as the cost of living in the US is so different across the country.
I do not think the government is qualified to teach unskilled labor a trade. Government programs should not exist to teach unskilled workers skills. Government already provides funds in the form of grants and student loans so that unskilled labor can get educated if they chose.0 -
Anyone who believes that a high school dropout deserves as much pay as an educated professional is far more selfish than they think. This mentality caters to the individual who is lazy as opposed to society as a whole. The long term effects of increased wages across the country would just relate to increased cost of living. Businesses take advantage of the fact that when people are paid more, they spend more.
-People are willing to pay more for housing; we pay increased rents and mortgages.
-Increases in home and property values; we pay increased taxes.
-Increased taxes result in increased expenses for farmers; we pay more at grocers and restaurants.
-Gas companies determine prices by what consumers will pay; we pay more at the pump.
Paying a large group of people more money does more harm than good, a class in economics would explain this. But had these people gone to college they wouldn't be complaining in the first place. When all is said and done, the poor are still poor but they dragged down more of the middle class as a result. And believe it or not, the rich prefers to keep the middle class. When the middle class shrinks, the rich lose money as well.0 -
S glad I'm not American. Who would want to live such a selfish life that you don't want people being paid enough to surivive?
I don't think anyone here has said "I want people to be paid so little that they can't support their families". No one wants that, obviously. What we as Americans want is fair wages based on skill and education. I wouldn't be against a small raise- maybe $1-2 dollars- but doubling their salary for flipping burgers? While I bust my behind 40 hrs/week at a mentally stressful job just so I can make the same as a fast food worker? No thank you.
If they want to make as much as educated professionals make, then they need to take the steps necessary to gain those skills.
ETA: I'd bet money that the majority of adult fast food workers haven't done anything to try and expand their skill set. At least not where I live.And I but most of you call yourselves Christians too. Interesting to see your faces when your God casts you to he'll for ignoring everything that he put down.
Speaking of Christianity, how about this:
"....He straightened up, and said to them, "He who is without sin among you, let him be the first to throw a stone..."
And
"Do not judge, or you too will be judged."
As for the "ignoring everything He put down", I'm sorry, but I don't recall any bible verses stating what minimum wage should be for unskilled labor.0 -
A living wage for whom? the high school students these jobs are pretty much designed for or the people that don't want to learn a trade or through circumstances that are mostly due to their own choices can't get a job anywhere else. BTW, I have already outlined two real world examples that show this that have been in the news earlier in this thread.
Oh I forgot. McDonald's is only open between four pm and eleven PM. They don't need people when high school students are at work, they don't need people overnight. All managers should be high school students!0 -
Oh I forgot. McDonald's is only open between four pm and eleven PM. They don't need people when high school students are at work, they don't need people overnight. All managers should be high school students!
These people who are demanding an increase from the minimum wage are likely not managers. McDonald's has a three tiered management course for those who want to move up in responsibility so these individuals have actually earned the increased paycheck. McDonald's is also the only restaurant that promotes higher education to include their own courses that can be transferred to college credits. Individuals than can work towards a degree in Business or Hotel Restaurant Management. This all comes down to the same aspect; only those who prove they deserve it will get an increase in pay.
In fact, I bet many of these individual who actually take these courses eventually become business owners themselves. So are we going to take the revenue from these businesses and dole out $15 an hour wages to everyone just because the lazy feel entitled? We'd see many of these franchises disappear because contrary to popular belief, they don't get money from corporate.0 -
S glad I'm not American. Who would want to live such a selfish life that you don't want people being paid enough to surivive?
And I but most of you call yourselves Christians too. Interesting to see your faces when your God casts you to he'll for ignoring everything that he put down.
I think perhaps that YOU should learn your Scripture before you go around babbling this sort of drivel.
Proverbs 12:24
Proverbs 13:4
2 Thessalonians 3:10-12
Matthew 25:14-30
The Bible is rife with advocating hard work and diligence and warns that those who are not will end up in poverty.
Sheesh, even an atheist knows this.0 -
I didn't make $15 an hour for jobs that required a college education.
And how many people are working entry level fast food jobs (I know there are SOME, but is it a vast majority?) to take care of families? Aren't a lot of them high school and college kids?
Where I live there are a good amount of adults that work at the fast food restaurants. That said, it's not that they don't deserve more money, but it just doesn't make sense as you already pointed out that people with college educations don't even always make $15 an hour right now.
Oh, I make more than that now. But I had to work my way to it. I had minimum wage, unskilled labor jobs while working on my education, then went out into the full-time workforce. I made $10 an hour at my very first full-time job, that did not require a degree. Then decided to pursue journalism (talk about underpaid). I started at $8 an hour at my first newspaper job. I probably would have made more at McDonald's. lol
And I think the fast food industry likes to promote from within so some of the burger flippers can work up to management and the managers do very well.
If they want to make more money, they should work on moving up in the world and not staying in those jobs.
(Edited because I made a terrible -- typo? -- and I am an editor and need to be worthy of MY salary! lol)
I completely agree. Most of us had to start somewhere. In my case, my first job paid $4.25/hr. I have bust my *kitten* to get where I am today and don't regret all of the hard work and sacrifice it took me to get there.0 -
"Picketers in seven cities say McDonald's, Wendy's and other fast-food chains should pay employees $15 an hour. But the restaurant industry says that would force those companies to cut jobs."
http://www.npr.org/blogs/thesalt/2013/07/30/206714894/fast-food-strikers-demand-a-living-wage?utm_source=NPR&utm_medium=facebook&utm_campaign=20130730
You are kidding me, right? $15 an hour to flip burgers? NO. Just no. GTFO. Am I the only one who thinks that these people are out of their damn mind? This is exactly the kind of bullsh^t mentality that has all our jobs being outsourced to other countries. I can almost hear people complaining about immigrants taking our jobs.... you know why they do, because they don't f%^%$ ask for $15 bucks to flip a damn burger!!! Ugh
I certainly want people to be paid fairly... fast food places though.. half the time you're dealing with people who can't even get a simple order right or even make change without a machine telling them what to give people back.
There are skilled jobs that don't even pay 15 an hour. So I'm voting with you on people being out of their minds.0 -
I have a question for those who are against a "living wage" (not sure where I fall on this yet). A major point for these is that they are jobs meant for unskilled workers. Do you support government funds going toward establishing programs to teach the unskilled workers skills so that they can find viable employment?
We already have those programs. The lazy people who want to earn 15 an hour for doing nothing, don't want to sign up and learn a viable skill.
there are endless government funded job training classes to take.0 -
I have a question for those who are against a "living wage" (not sure where I fall on this yet). A major point for these is that they are jobs meant for unskilled workers. Do you support government funds going toward establishing programs to teach the unskilled workers skills so that they can find viable employment?
We already have those programs. The lazy people who want to earn 15 an hour for doing nothing, don't want to sign up and learn a viable skill.
there are endless government funded job training classes to take.
This. Everywhere that I have ever lived, there have also been this thing called a community college... they are cheaper than dirt and usually have programs to teach people a skill. The one I graduated from had Cosmotology, Auto Mechanics, Auto Body, Electrician, HVAC, Welding, Carpentry... and a few others that escape me right now. These were all valid two year programs that qualified for the Pell grant (which if you were awarded the full amount (as I was and my dad was in the military at the time) then the Pell would more than cover the tuition, fees and books needed to go. My brother got into the HVAC and as Electricians apprentice just by working his *kitten* off.0 -
A living wage for whom? the high school students these jobs are pretty much designed for or the people that don't want to learn a trade or through circumstances that are mostly due to their own choices can't get a job anywhere else. BTW, I have already outlined two real world examples that show this that have been in the news earlier in this thread.
Oh I forgot. McDonald's is only open between four pm and eleven PM. They don't need people when high school students are at work, they don't need people overnight. All managers should be high school students!
No you're right... McDonald's isn't open during lunch *eye roll*... The point is fast food is a NO SKILL job (anyone with two brain cells to rub together can work at a fast food resturant... and even then the ones that do get it wrong to many times to justify paying them the same as anyone with a skill)... again, people WITH A SKILL barely make $15 an hour, particularly outside of West Coast and the Northeast Coast.0 -
No. The point was that this statement is complete nonsense: "the high school students these jobs are pretty much designed for."0
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S glad I'm not American. Who would want to live such a selfish life that you don't want people being paid enough to surivive?
And I but most of you call yourselves Christians too. Interesting to see your faces when your God casts you to he'll for ignoring everything that he put down.
I think perhaps that YOU should learn your Scripture before you go around babbling this sort of drivel.
Proverbs 12:24
Proverbs 13:4
2 Thessalonians 3:10-12
Matthew 25:14-30
The Bible is rife with advocating hard work and diligence and warns that those who are not will end up in poverty.
Sheesh, even an atheist knows this.
While what you are saying here is true the bible is also rife with scriptures claiming that we should give not care for tomorrow. Whatever we ask in faith we shall receive. Prayer is infinitely more important than our works. Since Jesus himself said some of these things I can see how one could come to the conclusion that our hardest of work is meaningless compared to the fruits that we could harvest by focusing on prayer instead.0 -
S glad I'm not American. Who would want to live such a selfish life that you don't want people being paid enough to surivive?
And I but most of you call yourselves Christians too. Interesting to see your faces when your God casts you to he'll for ignoring everything that he put down.
I think perhaps that YOU should learn your Scripture before you go around babbling this sort of drivel.
Proverbs 12:24
Proverbs 13:4
2 Thessalonians 3:10-12
Matthew 25:14-30
The Bible is rife with advocating hard work and diligence and warns that those who are not will end up in poverty.
Sheesh, even an atheist knows this.
While what you are saying here is true the bible is also rife with scriptures claiming that we should give not care for tomorrow. Whatever we ask in faith we shall receive. Prayer is infinitely more important than our works. Since Jesus himself said some of these things I can see how one could come to the conclusion that our hardest of work is meaningless compared to the fruits that we could harvest by focusing on prayer instead.
Soldier,
I really don't want to see another "debating" group thread unravel into a religious debate with you as the champion of the "anti-Christian" view. But I do have to say that I believe you have grossly misinterpretted the bible.0 -
While what you are saying here is true the bible is also rife with scriptures claiming that we should give not care for tomorrow. Whatever we ask in faith we shall receive. Prayer is infinitely more important than our works. Since Jesus himself said some of these things I can see how one could come to the conclusion that our hardest of work is meaningless compared to the fruits that we could harvest by focusing on prayer instead.S glad I'm not American. Who would want to live such a selfish life that you don't want people being paid enough to surivive?
And I but most of you call yourselves Christians too. Interesting to see your faces when your God casts you to he'll for ignoring everything that he put down.
I think perhaps that YOU should learn your Scripture before you go around babbling this sort of drivel.
Proverbs 12:24
Proverbs 13:4
2 Thessalonians 3:10-12
Matthew 25:14-30
The Bible is rife with advocating hard work and diligence and warns that those who are not will end up in poverty.
Sheesh, even an atheist knows this.
Soldier,
I really don't want to see another "debating" group thread unravel into a religious debate with you as the champion of the "anti-Christian" view. But I do have to say that I believe you have grossly misinterpretted the bible.
Husky,
I really don't want to see another thread get riddled with a bunch of vacuous responses explaining to me the importance of ignoring evidence with you as the champion for "Faith is evidence" view but I think you have grossly misinterpretted the bible.
Just because you have rose colored glasses on and you choose to see everything in there from the condoning to slavery to the marginalizing of women as actually being something good doesn't mean that I am the one with the problem.
Furthermore I have not derailed any of the debating threads with my views on religion. "Why does god hate amputees" was about religion long before I ever made my first post. The same is true of "Why there is no Freewill" You might not like the rails that the conversations were already on but that isn't my fault. I threw down the gauntlet with "You set the bar too high." but that was my thread and I started the conversation. I have not "derailed" anything.
I am not sitting around waiting for people to make faith based claims so I can jump at them. "Capital Punishment" was also my topic and religion never came up so it was never discussed even though a topic like that is prime fodder for the religious to sink their teeth in to. That said I have no intention of backing down when the faithful raise their flag and go charging in to a debate.
I don't ever see you complain when someone says the solution to a problem is prayer or the cause of a problem is out lack of allegiance to god but you do have a problem with me when I gainsay those claims. If you don't want people like me to point out the obvious logical holes in religion then you should talk to your fellow believers and not me. You could tell your fellow believers that they are derailing the conversation by talking about faith based claims in the affirmative.
I know you won't do that because in your mind I am the problem and not those that advocate faith.0 -
While what you are saying here is true the bible is also rife with scriptures claiming that we should give not care for tomorrow. Whatever we ask in faith we shall receive. Prayer is infinitely more important than our works. Since Jesus himself said some of these things I can see how one could come to the conclusion that our hardest of work is meaningless compared to the fruits that we could harvest by focusing on prayer instead.S glad I'm not American. Who would want to live such a selfish life that you don't want people being paid enough to surivive?
And I but most of you call yourselves Christians too. Interesting to see your faces when your God casts you to he'll for ignoring everything that he put down.
I think perhaps that YOU should learn your Scripture before you go around babbling this sort of drivel.
Proverbs 12:24
Proverbs 13:4
2 Thessalonians 3:10-12
Matthew 25:14-30
The Bible is rife with advocating hard work and diligence and warns that those who are not will end up in poverty.
Sheesh, even an atheist knows this.
Soldier,
I really don't want to see another "debating" group thread unravel into a religious debate with you as the champion of the "anti-Christian" view. But I do have to say that I believe you have grossly misinterpretted the bible.
Husky,
I really don't want to see another thread get riddled with a bunch of vacuous responses explaining to me the importance of ignoring evidence with you as the champion for "Faith is evidence" view but I think you have grossly misinterpretted the bible.
Just because you have rose colored glasses on and you choose to see everything in there from the condoning to slavery to the marginalizing of women as actually being something good doesn't mean that I am the one with the problem.
Furthermore I have not derailed any of the debating threads with my views on religion. "Why does god hate amputees" was about religion long before I ever made my first post. The same is true of "Why there is no Freewill" You might not like the rails that the conversations were already on but that isn't my fault. I threw down the gauntlet with "You set the bar too high." but that was my thread and I started the conversation. I have not "derailed" anything.
I am not sitting around waiting for people to make faith based claims so I can jump at them. "Capital Punishment" was also my topic and religion never came up so it was never discussed even though a topic like that is prime fodder for the religious to sink their teeth in to. That said I have no intention of backing down when the faithful raise their flag and go charging in to a debate.
I don't ever see you complain when someone says the solution to a problem is prayer or the cause of a problem is out lack of allegiance to god but you do have a problem with me when I gainsay those claims. If you don't want people like me to point out the obvious logical holes in religion then you should talk to your fellow believers and not me. You could tell your fellow believers that they are derailing the conversation by talking about faith based claims in the affirmative.
I know you won't do that because in your mind I am the problem and not those that advocate faith.
Multiple threads seem to get derailed here, maybe not purposely by you, but you certainly do not fail to contend with any faith-based response, which ultimately results in the defense of those responses, and in turn, a subsequent derailment.
Why can't you let people just believe what they want to believe? Why must you respond in direct contention at all? You could keep your non-faith-based responses directed at the OP's question, and completely avoid turning a labor dispute thread into a contextual religious showdown.0 -
And you do not fail to defend faith based claims. It is certainly fortunate that we have a group here where we can both exist. I guarantee the general forums will lock down any thread that dare to advocate either side of a religious debate. Or any other debate that contains a topic of real significance.
While what you are saying here is true the bible is also rife with scriptures claiming that we should give not care for tomorrow. Whatever we ask in faith we shall receive. Prayer is infinitely more important than our works. Since Jesus himself said some of these things I can see how one could come to the conclusion that our hardest of work is meaningless compared to the fruits that we could harvest by focusing on prayer instead.S glad I'm not American. Who would want to live such a selfish life that you don't want people being paid enough to surivive?
And I but most of you call yourselves Christians too. Interesting to see your faces when your God casts you to he'll for ignoring everything that he put down.
I think perhaps that YOU should learn your Scripture before you go around babbling this sort of drivel.
Proverbs 12:24
Proverbs 13:4
2 Thessalonians 3:10-12
Matthew 25:14-30
The Bible is rife with advocating hard work and diligence and warns that those who are not will end up in poverty.
Sheesh, even an atheist knows this.
Soldier,
I really don't want to see another "debating" group thread unravel into a religious debate with you as the champion of the "anti-Christian" view. But I do have to say that I believe you have grossly misinterpretted the bible.
Husky,
I really don't want to see another thread get riddled with a bunch of vacuous responses explaining to me the importance of ignoring evidence with you as the champion for "Faith is evidence" view but I think you have grossly misinterpretted the bible.
Just because you have rose colored glasses on and you choose to see everything in there from the condoning to slavery to the marginalizing of women as actually being something good doesn't mean that I am the one with the problem.
Furthermore I have not derailed any of the debating threads with my views on religion. "Why does god hate amputees" was about religion long before I ever made my first post. The same is true of "Why there is no Freewill" You might not like the rails that the conversations were already on but that isn't my fault. I threw down the gauntlet with "You set the bar too high." but that was my thread and I started the conversation. I have not "derailed" anything.
I am not sitting around waiting for people to make faith based claims so I can jump at them. "Capital Punishment" was also my topic and religion never came up so it was never discussed even though a topic like that is prime fodder for the religious to sink their teeth in to. That said I have no intention of backing down when the faithful raise their flag and go charging in to a debate.
I don't ever see you complain when someone says the solution to a problem is prayer or the cause of a problem is out lack of allegiance to god but you do have a problem with me when I gainsay those claims. If you don't want people like me to point out the obvious logical holes in religion then you should talk to your fellow believers and not me. You could tell your fellow believers that they are derailing the conversation by talking about faith based claims in the affirmative.
I know you won't do that because in your mind I am the problem and not those that advocate faith.
Multiple threads seem to get derailed here, maybe not purposely by you, but you certainly do not fail to contend with any faith-based response.
Since you believe that there are an abundance of threads which I have derailed please list a few of them for me and I will read through them. If you could go so far as to tell me exactly where I derailed it then that would be appreciated by not required.0 -
And you do not fail to defend faith based claims. It is certainly fortunate that we have a group here where we can both exist. I guarantee the general forums will lock down any thread that dare to advocate either side of a religious debate. Or any other debate that contains a topic of real significance.
While what you are saying here is true the bible is also rife with scriptures claiming that we should give not care for tomorrow. Whatever we ask in faith we shall receive. Prayer is infinitely more important than our works. Since Jesus himself said some of these things I can see how one could come to the conclusion that our hardest of work is meaningless compared to the fruits that we could harvest by focusing on prayer instead.S glad I'm not American. Who would want to live such a selfish life that you don't want people being paid enough to surivive?
And I but most of you call yourselves Christians too. Interesting to see your faces when your God casts you to he'll for ignoring everything that he put down.
I think perhaps that YOU should learn your Scripture before you go around babbling this sort of drivel.
Proverbs 12:24
Proverbs 13:4
2 Thessalonians 3:10-12
Matthew 25:14-30
The Bible is rife with advocating hard work and diligence and warns that those who are not will end up in poverty.
Sheesh, even an atheist knows this.
Soldier,
I really don't want to see another "debating" group thread unravel into a religious debate with you as the champion of the "anti-Christian" view. But I do have to say that I believe you have grossly misinterpretted the bible.
Husky,
I really don't want to see another thread get riddled with a bunch of vacuous responses explaining to me the importance of ignoring evidence with you as the champion for "Faith is evidence" view but I think you have grossly misinterpretted the bible.
Just because you have rose colored glasses on and you choose to see everything in there from the condoning to slavery to the marginalizing of women as actually being something good doesn't mean that I am the one with the problem.
Furthermore I have not derailed any of the debating threads with my views on religion. "Why does god hate amputees" was about religion long before I ever made my first post. The same is true of "Why there is no Freewill" You might not like the rails that the conversations were already on but that isn't my fault. I threw down the gauntlet with "You set the bar too high." but that was my thread and I started the conversation. I have not "derailed" anything.
I am not sitting around waiting for people to make faith based claims so I can jump at them. "Capital Punishment" was also my topic and religion never came up so it was never discussed even though a topic like that is prime fodder for the religious to sink their teeth in to. That said I have no intention of backing down when the faithful raise their flag and go charging in to a debate.
I don't ever see you complain when someone says the solution to a problem is prayer or the cause of a problem is out lack of allegiance to god but you do have a problem with me when I gainsay those claims. If you don't want people like me to point out the obvious logical holes in religion then you should talk to your fellow believers and not me. You could tell your fellow believers that they are derailing the conversation by talking about faith based claims in the affirmative.
I know you won't do that because in your mind I am the problem and not those that advocate faith.
Multiple threads seem to get derailed here, maybe not purposely by you, but you certainly do not fail to contend with any faith-based response.
Since you believe that there are an abundance of threads which I have derailed please list a few of them for me and I will read through them. If you could go so far as to tell me exactly where I derailed it then that would be appreciated by not required.
I did not openly accuse you of derailing any threads... only that you participate in the execution of them.0 -
I have a question for those who are against a "living wage" (not sure where I fall on this yet). A major point for these is that they are jobs meant for unskilled workers. Do you support government funds going toward establishing programs to teach the unskilled workers skills so that they can find viable employment?
We already have those programs. The lazy people who want to earn 15 an hour for doing nothing, don't want to sign up and learn a viable skill.
there are endless government funded job training classes to take.
This. Everywhere that I have ever lived, there have also been this thing called a community college... they are cheaper than dirt and usually have programs to teach people a skill. The one I graduated from had Cosmotology, Auto Mechanics, Auto Body, Electrician, HVAC, Welding, Carpentry... and a few others that escape me right now. These were all valid two year programs that qualified for the Pell grant (which if you were awarded the full amount (as I was and my dad was in the military at the time) then the Pell would more than cover the tuition, fees and books needed to go. My brother got into the HVAC and as Electricians apprentice just by working his *kitten* off.
You don't even have to do it through a college. Every single unemployment office everywhere offers job training classes free.0 -
You can just believe. There is no obligation to listen to a single word that I say. I am not trying to get legislation passed which would make it illegal to believe in God. If you want your belief to be taken seriously as an idea with good solid foundation then you should be prepared to defend it. In fact you should welcome it especially if you are in a group centered around debating.Why can't you let people just believe what they want to believe? Why must you respond in direct contention at all? You could keep your non-faith-based responses directed at the OP's question, and completely avoid turning a labor dispute thread into a contextual religious showdown.
If you want to be able to talk about God all day without any opposition then join a religious group and tell the members that that the fool in his heart knows there is no god. You could create a thread entitled that and spend your entire day with a bunch of believers patting you on the back and telling you just how stupid atheists like me are.
I will also point out that I was responding to someone who was responding to someone else. So why is your issue with me and not the other two who were discussing your bible already. Well the atheist that I was responding to was mentioning those verses that cast the bible in a positive light so you have no problem with his post. In fact we could discuss at length just how following the teachings of the bible would solve all the problems of the world and you would never have a problem with it.
The atheist was responding to someone who was casting the bible in a negative light. Who knows why you didn't say anything to that poster. Perhaps your beef is with me specifically.0 -
You can just believe. There is no obligation to listen to a single word that I say. I am not trying to get legislation passed which would make it illegal to believe in God. If you want your belief to be taken seriously as an idea with good solid foundation then you should be prepared to defend it. In fact you should welcome it especially if you are in a group centered around debating.Why can't you let people just believe what they want to believe? Why must you respond in direct contention at all? You could keep your non-faith-based responses directed at the OP's question, and completely avoid turning a labor dispute thread into a contextual religious showdown.
If you want to be able to talk about God all day without any opposition then join a religious group and tell the members that that the fool in his heart knows there is no god. You could create a thread entitled that and spend your entire day with a bunch of believers patting you on the back and telling you just how stupid atheists like me are.
I will also point out that I was responding to someone who was responding to someone else. So why is your issue with me and not the other two who were discussing your bible already. Well the atheist that I was responding to was mention those verses that cast the bible in a positive light so you have no problem with his post. In fact we could discuss at length just how following the teachings of the bible would solve all the problems of the world and you would never have a problem with it.
The atheist was responding to someone who was casting the bible in a negative light. Who knows why you didn't say anything to that poster. Perhaps your beef is with me specifically.
Well no... I took issue because the thread was getting away from the subject (derailment) and you were participating (engaging the derailer and encouraging response).0 -
When you posted:I did not openly accuse you of derailing any threads... only that you participate in the execution of them.
Soldier,
I really don't want to see another "debating" group thread unravel into a religious debate with you as the champion of the "anti-Christian" view. But I do have to say that I believe you have grossly misinterpretted the bible.
I took that to mean you felt I this thread was another example of a thread unraveling with me as the champion of the "anti-Christian" view. If this is not an accusation of me being the one who derails the thread then I will assume I misinterpreted it.
I do participate in the conversations. It sounds to me like you would prefer that I did not or you would at least prefer it if I were to agree with the believers or at least allow their claims to go by unchallenged. It would be easy to win a debate if all you had to do was tell the other side of that debate to either agree with you or remain silent. Unfortunately that is not how it works.
We are talking about the very foundation of reality itself. We are talking about the existence of an omnipotent being. That topic deserves to be discussed and delved in to. The answer does exist and it is very important. We should not make the mistake of simply believing the thing that we find most appealing. We have to take this very seriously and every single claim must be challenged and only those claims that can stand up to scrutiny deserve to survive.0
