Still Stuck... Wrongdoings?

collegefbfan

Started this WOE in August 2016. Found real success. Lost about 45 pounds, and lab numbers improved. Well. I am 5 feet 8 inches. I walk about 10,000 - 12,000 steps a day at work. I have been stuck at 220 pounds for awhile now. I am on the biggest loser contest here at work. But that isn't the deal I am struggling with. I have been eating good to great since the end of August. Plenty of water. I haven't been eating a lot of fat because I haven't been eating a lot of anything actually. I tried fasting (some here called it skipping meals), but I am just not that hungry. I have tried to go back to my eating plan when I first started this WOE. I am just not that hungry. Just recently, I put my morning shake back in my plan.

The way I have been eating over the last couple to few weeks:
Morning: Nothing. Mornings, just not hungry.
Lunch: Full fat cheese, pecans, ham with stone ground mustard, or leftover meat and veggies.
Home from work: If I don't have my leftover meat and veggies at lunch, I usually eat it when I return from work. Around 3:30.
Supper: Meat such as steak, salmon, pork chops, ground beef and butter, chicken thighs with skin, etc. These are fried in butter or avocado oil. Veggies like Brussel sprouts with bacon, or cauliflower with cheese, broccoli, asparagus, salad, etc.
Plenty of water throughout the day.
I am also known to turn the container of heavy cream up and drink it straight. I LOVE HEAVY CREAM.
Also, I have a cup of coffee at night with 1/4 teaspoon of the concentrated Stevia and heavy cream.

I plan on sticking to the same plan above but having my morning shake of coconut milk, heavy cream, protein powder, and sometimes I use hemp hearts.

I have no idea what I am doing wrong. Is it not enough food? Not enough fat? Not the right foods? Is it my coffee at night?

Violet_Flux

How many calories are you eating on average? Apart from the walking, how active are you (excercise etc)?

KnitOrMiss

I know that personally, my love of heavy cream did me in. Not because of calories or dairy, I don't think. Does your LOL brand have carrageenan in it? That's a very inflammatory food... I found that total nutrient density mattered, nutrients to support any outlying health conditions or weaknesses may be present, etc,

Lunch meats can have a lot of additives. The hemp hearts are FAB nutrition...

I find that focusing on the protein and letting the fats fall where they do, while keeping carbs low is helping me...instead of focusing on trying to keep fats super high...

kpk54

Too many calories. Ends thread for me.

If you're not hungry, why are you turning the container of heavy cream up and drinking it straight? 50 calories per tablespoon. I doubt your container tipping is limited to a tablespoon...a sip. Maybe it is.

Are you tracking your food intake somewhere other than MFP? I see 2 diary entries since August 1st. 1 on October 9 for a 600 calorie shake and one on October 10 for a 485 calorie shake. Without tracking, I'll say it...you're eating more than you think.

More food is rarely (if ever) the answer to weight loss.

Calories for weight management. Macros for nutrition/hunger/health. Activity/exercise for fitness.

collegefbfan

Thanks folks. I will say that last year from August until December, I tracked. I also ate a lot. About 1800 calories. I was tipping the heavy cream then also. There is very little possibility I eat 1800 calories a day now. I guess I will start tracking again. I was only tipping the heavy cream mainly to add fat. I have tried to keep a focus on the protein and let the fats fall where it might. The thing is the protein is always way over and that bothers me. I look back at all of the entries and what I used to eat, and I thought how did I ever lose weight.

As far as tipping the heavy cream when not hungry, I did it only to help out with getting the amount of fat I thought I needed. More like a preventative to not get hungry later on if I was out doing something. About a month ago, for five days I fasted from supper to supper. I lost maybe a pound. Thanks for all the replies, I guess I am just at a loss.

You all are totally correct. Starting this WOE, my wife was told you don't need to count calories. I did, and the weight loss was astounding last year from August until December. I will start tracking more just to keep a check on myself. The only reason for ham and such was just treated as a kind of go to snack because I am not totally hungry at lunch. However, I don't want to fall out either.

Thanks people.

AlexandraCarlyle

This is what you do:

• You eat protein until the cows come home. When they do, just eat more.
• You keep carbs to an absolute minimum - between 20 - 50g maximum/day.
• If you're losing weight - do NOT add fat to your diet, other than that which is already in your food, or which you need to cook with.

collegefbfan

Really? I thought on ketogenic, you need to be somewhat be careful of too much protein because it can convert to glucose. Am I wrong? Also, I followed Carbs-20grams, Protein-80-120 grams, and Fat-160-250 grams or thereabouts. I know those are wide ranges, but I can't remember exactly. And these change from day to day but not by much.

Thanks again.

amyrising

collegefbfan wrote: »

Really? I thought on ketogenic, you need to be somewhat be careful of too much protein because it can convert to glucose. Am I wrong? Also, I followed Carbs-20grams, Protein-80-120 grams, and Fat-160-250 grams or thereabouts. I know those are wide ranges, but I can't remember exactly. And these change from day to day but not by much.

Thanks again.

I was told the same thing. Have you watched any of Dr. Eric Bergs videos? He has really answered a lot of my questions just in videos alone. I hope you can get some answers. I know that when I didn't log everything that went in my mouth, I was overeating. That is a good start.

collegefbfan

I will watch.

Xerogs

I would start tracking again and even measure the fat you add to your diet, even cooking oil. It's easy to over do it and not know it. Nuts are my Achilles heal, I will underestimate them all the time so I need to be watchful since they are calorie dense and can add up quickly. I would be careful of the processed pork foods since they contain sodium nitrate which is not good for your digestive track. Protein shakes can add up calories quickly as well. I've found that I lose weight more effectively if I maintain a low carb calorie deficit after I workout and I don't add fat unless my meals don't satiate my hunger.

I don't eat breakfast since I am not hungry so in a sense I fast from around 7pm to 11am the next day. I do drink water and tea in the morning but don't feel hungry at all. I try to follow the eat when I am hungry rule but don't let myself go for extended periods of time without eating, if that make sense. I just notice if I hold off eating past 2pm or so my energy will wane even if I am not hungry.

collegefbfan

Yes. My shake doesn't come out to heavy on the macros. I used MCT oil some last year to add some fat. Where are these videos? Many thanks.

tcunbeliever

Your diary has very little logged over the last week, so how do you really know what you are consuming?

Sunny_Bunny_

Reduce the fat. Don't add butter to ground beef. It's already very high fat. If you eat that you don't need any more fat.
It's ok to pull skin off chicken.
Try half n half for your coffee and don't drink it straight.
You have fat on your body you want to use but you are consuming enough fat so that it doesn't need to.

It's not the high fat that makes low carb work. It's the low carb.
It's fine to cook lean meat and veggies in fats but you don't need to add any to your plate. Eat all the meat you want. Protein isn't a problem for a weight loss keto diet. Don't limit it.
You will add extra fat back in when you want to show it stop weight loss.

nvmomketo

collegefbfan wrote: »

Really? I thought on ketogenic, you need to be somewhat be careful of too much protein because it can convert to glucose. Am I wrong? Also, I followed Carbs-20grams, Protein-80-120 grams, and Fat-160-250 grams or thereabouts. I know those are wide ranges, but I can't remember exactly. And these change from day to day but not by much.

Thanks again.

I think protein is only a problem for those who are ketogenic for health reasons - they need high ketones - like epileptics. For the rest of us, moderate to high protein won't be a problem. We may have slightly fewer ketones but ketones do not cause weight loss. It's just a form of fuel and by product of fat burning.

From what I have read, protein intake does not start interfering with ketone levels until around 200g. 80-120 g of protein is not that high. I am guessing 15-25%.

You probably just have too many calories for what your body needs right now. Logging is probably a good idea. You'll be able to find easier places to cut calories like a Tbs or so less cream or fewer nuts or whatever.

I find that to lose, counting calories does help me. I can maintain okay without counting but losing requires more awareness for me. Eat zero carb is about the only way that I can lose without counting or consciuosly cutting back.

__Roxy__

@Sunny_Bunny_ Do you know what PSMF stands for in that infographic?

AlexandraCarlyle

collegefbfan wrote: »

Really? I thought on ketogenic, you need to be somewhat be careful of too much protein because it can convert to glucose. Am I wrong? Also, I followed Carbs-20grams, Protein-80-120 grams, and Fat-160-250 grams or thereabouts. I know those are wide ranges, but I can't remember exactly. And these change from day to day but not by much.

Thanks again.

Nope. See @Sunny_Bunny_ 's post.

AlexandraCarlyle

River_Goddess wrote: »

@Sunny_Bunny_ Do you know what PSMF stands for in that infographic?

Protein-Sparing Modified Fast.

I didn't know either, I Googled it.

collegefbfan

Wow, totally different from what I have read or seen. I was eating pretty high fat and low carb last year and the weight peeled off at record pace. I haven't logged in awhile, true, but I have better entries of what I ate listed in October-November of last year or thereabouts. Very mixed up now.

AlexandraCarlyle

Could you give an indication of what you have read or seen, and where, please?

(ETA: That sounds' challenging'. It's not intended to be. It would just be nice to be able to rectify the impression this previous information, gave you.... )

retirehappy

As for the fat, read this excellent blog post on it.
https://lowcarbrn.wordpress.com/2015/10/28/dont-force-the-fat/

Have you attempted any extended fasting? It is good for breaking through stalls.

As you have lost @45 lbs. now, have you recalculated your macros? Here is a good one:
https://ketodietapp.com/Blog/page/KetoDiet-Buddy

Track for a week or so to see what you are really eating these days.

Do you have a way to determine if you are in ketosis? Use that if you do to see where you really stand.

Good luck sorting it all out.

collegefbfan

Well, a friend of ours (my wife and I), has lost 105 pounds and decreased her 6 medications down to one using the ketogenic diet. I know that every person's body is different. I lost roughly 40-45 pounds from last August until January or February of this year. Been roughly maintaining ever since. As far as readings and info goes, the ketogenic websites, the doctor at the ketogenic conference I went to a few nights ago. He said that he eats almost 85% fat. I was doing so well last year at this time. Actually, my September 2016 diary shows this on MFP. I was actually eating around 1600-1700 calories a day, plenty of fat, and very few carbs. I stayed away from rice, pasta, sugary sauces, no soft drinks, no white flour, no cakes, no pies, etc. My ketones were in a good range, blood sugar was in the 80's, blood pressure was fine, and triglycerides went way down, as did cholesterol. I talked to a lot of people on here that helped out tremendously with great advice and information. So, this year, probably starting in May, I just wasn't hungry in the morning. So, I didn't eat until noon or 1:00 pm. I will say the vacation in Mexico in July was a cheat so to speak. I probably gained 8 pounds over the summer, (I am a teacher), Mexico cheats included in that 8 pounds. I lost it very quickly. My lowest has been 217 pounds, but that is early morning. Been stuck at 220 though. Now, the information that we all discussed last year seems to have changed. People said get the fats, don't be scared of the fats, etc. Now, people are saying protein, eat your protein, and let fat fall where it may. Then, the What Do Your Low Carb Meals Look Like, has people eating butter, bacon, rib-eyes, veggies covered in butter, ghee, cheese, etc. That sounds like more fat in some cases. I am going to check out the Eric Berg videos.

Thanks for all the help. I am just mixed up because it seems the info we all discussed last year has changed somewhat to this year. This is why I am confused. Thanks again.

Catawampous

I don't think the advice has changed. I remember you and some of your questions. I think your needs have changed which has changed the advice. You are in a totally different place than you were. When I first started I ate all the fat too. Then as my body changed and my needs changed I had to lower the fat to continue losing. Remember it is fat to satiety. When you first start you are hungry and adjusting still. Once you have done that you need to rein the fat in to continue to lose.

Hope that helps

kpk54

Catawampous wrote: »

I don't think the advice has changed. I remember you and some of your questions. I think your needs have changed which has changed the advice. You are in a totally different place than you were. When I first started I ate all the fat too. Then as my body changed and my needs changed I had to lower the fat to continue losing. Remember it is fat to satiety. When you first start you are hungry and adjusting still. Once you have done that you need to rein the fat in to continue to lose.

Hope that helps

So what you are saying is that you re-evaluated your intake based on your current weight and reduced fat to decrease calories OR did you shift the calories to protein (or carbs) and continue to lose on the same amount of calories?

kimberwolf71

To quote Dr. Ted Naiman (Burn Fat Not Sugar):

Catawampous

kpk54 wrote: »

Catawampous wrote: »

I don't think the advice has changed. I remember you and some of your questions. I think your needs have changed which has changed the advice. You are in a totally different place than you were. When I first started I ate all the fat too. Then as my body changed and my needs changed I had to lower the fat to continue losing. Remember it is fat to satiety. When you first start you are hungry and adjusting still. Once you have done that you need to rein the fat in to continue to lose.

Hope that helps

So what you are saying is that you re-evaluated your intake based on your current weight and reduced fat to decrease calories OR did you shift the calories to protein (or carbs) and continue to lose on the same amount of calories?

The first one! Reduced fat to decrease calories. If I hadn't adjusted my calories down I would have remained stalled I think.

Sunny_Bunny_

collegefbfan wrote: »

Wow, totally different from what I have read or seen. I was eating pretty high fat and low carb last year and the weight peeled off at record pace. I haven't logged in awhile, true, but I have better entries of what I ate listed in October-November of last year or thereabouts. Very mixed up now.

The weight will peel off until it doesn't... at that point calories typically need to be further reduced since you are now a smaller person and you reduce those calories by reducing fat. Additionally, I can undereat protein and lose scale weight but I am not trying to lose muscle for the sake of a number on a scale. I only want to lose fat and nothing else. As much as possible. So I will always make sure to get enough protein as my priority. Then of course limit carbs and fat is perfectly fine up to a point at which you can still lose bodyfat. I thought you were saying you were not losing... ??? So it's time to reduce fat.

Eating fat isn't what makes the fat loss happen. It's the eating less than you need to burn and eating keto makes that feel much easier to do. Keto is very low carb. You will be in ketosis by carb restriction regardless of fat intake. If you eat nothing at all you're in ketosis right? Eating fat doesn't make it keto. Very low carb does.

Sunny_Bunny_

collegefbfan wrote: »

Well, a friend of ours (my wife and I), has lost 105 pounds and decreased her 6 medications down to one using the ketogenic diet. I know that every person's body is different. I lost roughly 40-45 pounds from last August until January or February of this year. Been roughly maintaining ever since. As far as readings and info goes, the ketogenic websites, the doctor at the ketogenic conference I went to a few nights ago. He said that he eats almost 85% fat. I was doing so well last year at this time. Actually, my September 2016 diary shows this on MFP. I was actually eating around 1600-1700 calories a day, plenty of fat, and very few carbs. I stayed away from rice, pasta, sugary sauces, no soft drinks, no white flour, no cakes, no pies, etc. My ketones were in a good range, blood sugar was in the 80's, blood pressure was fine, and triglycerides went way down, as did cholesterol. I talked to a lot of people on here that helped out tremendously with great advice and information. So, this year, probably starting in May, I just wasn't hungry in the morning. So, I didn't eat until noon or 1:00 pm. I will say the vacation in Mexico in July was a cheat so to speak. I probably gained 8 pounds over the summer, (I am a teacher), Mexico cheats included in that 8 pounds. I lost it very quickly. My lowest has been 217 pounds, but that is early morning. Been stuck at 220 though. Now, the information that we all discussed last year seems to have changed. People said get the fats, don't be scared of the fats, etc. Now, people are saying protein, eat your protein, and let fat fall where it may. Then, the What Do Your Low Carb Meals Look Like, has people eating butter, bacon, rib-eyes, veggies covered in butter, ghee, cheese, etc. That sounds like more fat in some cases. I am going to check out the Eric Berg videos.

Thanks for all the help. I am just mixed up because it seems the info we all discussed last year has changed somewhat to this year. This is why I am confused. Thanks again.

The advice is not different. I recall you won the weight loss challenge last year. So you had not hit a stall. That's why no one was recommending you reduce fat. Now you have stopped losing and are asking what to adjust. If you want to use bodyfat for fuel, you will have to supply less of it from your plate.

The doctor you mention, is he trying to lose weight? If not, his 85% fat intake isn't relevant to you with a weight loss goal. When you are done losing weight, you will need to eat more fat just like the doctor. You are not the same as him yet.
People like to drink Bulletproof coffee because Dave Asprey does and it's keto. Well, Dave Asprey is in weight maintenance. He's already lost his weight.
The best example of eating very very high fat and restricting protein is Jimmy Moore. He's been keto for over 10 years. He's still terribly insulin resistant. He's never achieved a normal weight and he's been gaining weight back. Quite a lot in fact. My guess is that his BMR is crazy low from muscle loss from all those years of low protein and extended fasting. A lot of good it's done him!
As a matter of fact, quite a lot of the people I'm familiar with that advocate limited protein and very very high fat intake, while they have made great progress toward overall health and even significant weight loss, remain overweight and continue to discuss current insulin resistance and blood sugar issues.
In my experience, these people state that they don't lose weight if they eat more protein. The assumption is that it "kicks them out of ketosis" and stops them from burning fat.
I also learned this low protein, very very high fat version of what's actually a medically therapeutic keto diet, not a weight loss one, and I also stopped losing scale weight when I increased protein and lowered fat. But that's when I actually list the most bodyfat! The only way I can explain it is that I finally had enough protein to repair and maybe even replace my lost muscle from undereating protein. Since I gained 2 pounds but lost so much fat, it really makes me wonder what I actually lost with that first 25 pounds of scale weight!!!!

Sunny_Bunny_

Here's the picture I was just referring to. It wouldn't attach for some reason.

ChoiceNotChance

Well said, @Sunny_Bunny_ . I understand the op's confusion. I belong to a couple of Keto FB groups and they give conflicting advice. One says moderate protein and more, more, more fat. Another says higher protein, less fat. It's hard to know what will work best for your body.

Sunny_Bunny_

ChoiceNotChance wrote: »

Well said, @Sunny_Bunny_ . I understand the op's confusion. I belong to a couple of Keto FB groups and they give conflicting advice. One says moderate protein and more, more, more fat. Another says higher protein, less fat. It's hard to know what will work best for your body.

I know exactly what you mean.
I was literally talking (on Facebook) with a guy who writes for Ketovangelist who just wrote up a thing all about the protein controversy between different methods of thinking. It was clear he was trying to appear impartial in the beginning of his writing only to expose his actual motive by the end. As I was reading it I kept thinking of "pro" protein points he didn't even mention and a few comments he stated as a fact that simply aren't facts. I asked about some things and in his reply I could tell he didn't even know what I was talking about. So I replied again to clarify and he still answered in a way that I realized he wasn't even knowledgeable about what I was asking. Not even enough to realize what my question even was! I finally just gave up trying to clarify.
It just burns me up that these people put this information out there in a very smart way but it's incomplete and their knowledge is limited but it doesn't stop them from drawing conclusions that if wrong, are horrible for a persons long term health and weight loss goals.
The thing about the protein controversy that really sticks out to me is, if the low protein advocates are wrong, the consequence is reduced muscle which is detrimental to long term insulin sensitivity, weight maintenance and overall longevity. If the non limiting camp is wrong, the consequences are what? A little slower reduction of blood sugar? Which would be their argument but Dr Bernstein and his patients and every diabetic following his recommendations would prove that not to be an issue.
So why do they argue it so adamantly when it doesn't really hinder anything and can possibly do harm? Their argument is lower ketones... for weight loss, who cares? Or raises blood sugar? Really? By how much? More than eating nothing at all? Sure. More than consuming a bunch of fat? Yep. Waaaaaaaay less than carbohydrate and still less than vegetables? Also yes! So why don't they advocate eating no vegetables?
Nobody is asking the common sense questions.m because they have everyone blinded by confusing misunderstood science.

AlexandraCarlyle

Dear @Sunny_Bunny_ please write a book just for me.
I am an idiot and crave super idiot-simple counsel just like yours.
Thank you.