Living the Lifestyle - Tues 11/14

Calvin2008Brian

We meet here to explore, share, celebrate, and (sometimes) agonize over how we do (or don't) incorporate weight loss guidelines into our daily lives. "It's a lifestyle, not a diet" is easily and often said, but sometimes not so simply put into practice.

This is a thread for everyone. If you're new to GoaD, or to weight loss, your questions and comments are always welcome. If you're maintaining, or a long-term loser, your thoughts on the topic may be just what someone else needs to hear. If you're reading this, join in the discussion!

Each weekday, a new topic is offered up for discussion. Thread starters for November are:

Monday - imastar2 (Derrick)
Tuesday - Calvin2008Brian
Wednesday - Rachel0778 (Rachel)
Thursday - misterhub (Greg)
Friday - jimb376 (Jim)

Topic: good health guidelines

WW's recommended GHGs have changed over time as the program has evolved. I think there were only three when I started, and now there are eight. The link above takes you to the current WW list of GHGs, and I'll post a pic in a comment below for reference.

Whether or not you're "doing WW,":

• Do you make a point to follow GHGs?
• Are some more important than others? Which ones? Why?
• Do you track your GHGs?

Calvin2008Brian

Rachel0778

I remember filling in those boxes on my paper tracker very well!

I love it. "A serving or two a day" of lean protein to keep you full. I'd be ridiculously hungry if I ate only 3-6oz of lean protein a day. I rarely get less than 100 grams of protein a day. It helps to keep me full and maintain my high activity level.

I don't consciously track them anymore, but I do try to choose whole grains when possible, take my multivitamin, drink water, eat 1-2 servings of dairy, and eat at least 5 servings of fruit and vegetables a day.

I never bought into the 2 tsp of oil a day (no way was I wasting 2 points on that!). I prefer my fat through other sources like nuts, avocado, and nut butters.

I know I should probably limit sugars more. That being said, having a treat a day massively helped reduce my binging frequency during therapy because it reduced my feelings of deprivation. I'd rather have a treat a day and enjoy it than fall back into the all or nothing mindset and end up eating 7+ treats in one sitting. I pick my battles.

misterhub

I do try to get in my GHGs. If I follow the GHGs, everything else seems to fall into place for me.

Calvin2008Brian

I don't track or make a point of following the GHGs. I remember doing so when I first started on WW, when there were check boxes for water, oil, and multivitamin. I think the others GHGs came later.

They all make sense to me, and I think there's value in reminding myself about these guidelines versus getting caught up in just counting calories. I don't really pay attention to micro nutrients but do feel like balanced, healthy eating is kind of internalized. But maybe not. Something to think about, I guess.

Al_Howard

As I always said, "what are GHGs?"

Out_of_Bubblegum

WW's recommended GHGs have changed over time as the program has evolved. I think there were only three when I started, and now there are eight. The link above takes you to the current WW list of GHGs, and I'll post a pic in a comment below for reference.

Whether or not you're "doing WW,":

Do you make a point to follow GHGs?
Are some more important than others? Which ones? Why?
Do you track your GHGs?


Never heard of GHGs before today - but remember a lot of the same things taught in health class back in HS ... many years ago, and the medical community has long since debunked a lot of this stuff with actual studies and have data to back up the results of their findings.

Personally I follow the idea of "everything in moderation", and try to educate myself on the latest information based on well designed studies.... and my Dr is VERY happy with my blood work, so I think I'm doing something right.

Here are my thoughts on these guidelines:

1. Fruits and vegetables: Eat at least five ½-cup servings of fruits and vegetables per day.
A serving is ½ cup, except for leafy greens which are 1 cup per serving. For those over 350 pounds, 9 servings are recommended.
I love vegetables, and eat a lot. Fruit... depends on the season. I eat more in the summer when stone fruits are in season, and a I eat a fair amount of citrus in the winter.
Not sure what cups have to do with it... I weigh my food, and volume of vegetables often change based on how I cook them (cup of spinach raw does not equal a cup of steamed spinach)...

2. Whole grains: Choose whole grains whenever possible.
Choose whole-wheat (or oat or multigrain) bread, instead of bread made with refined white flour; whole-wheat pasta instead of white; and brown rice instead of white.
I don't follow this at all... I eat whatever grains that go with my preferred meal. I prefer 12 grain bread because of the texture, which has a lot of whole grains, but that's more of a byproduct. Much of my preferred breakfast cereal is whole grain, but that's mostly because I've outgrown most sugar based cereals. I do have some issue with the scare tactic of all refined grains are the devil. Whole grains are harder to digest = lower calories for the volume.... ok, fine. Brown rice has more fiber, but it also has more arsenic and I hate the texture. As I don't eat rice often, I'll stick to white.

3. Milk products: Get at least two 1-cup servings of milk a day.
Eat at least 2 servings of non- or low-fat milk products each day. A serving is 1 cup. Increase to 3 servings if you’re over 50 or weigh more than 250 pounds.
I have a big issue with this one... I am a firm believer in full fat dairy, and there are recent studies to back this up. If I'm going to have dairy, it will be full fat, thank you. This appears to be leftover from the "low fat" diet, and really needs to be re-evaluated!
https://health.usnews.com/wellness/food/articles/2016-10-28/5-reasons-to-start-eating-full-fat-dairy-according-to-science

4. Water: Drink at least six 8-ounce glasses of water each day. If this is hard for you, try flavoring your water with fruit or cucumber slices. Cups with measurements and/or built-in straws help too. Up to half of your daily fluid intake can come from decaffeinated drinks other than water, such as milk, juice or herbal tea.
Another one that has been debunked - this is an arbitrary number, and dates back to the "2000 calorie" recommendation from 1945!

Does a 5'1" person who weighs 120lb need the same 64 oz of water as a 6'3" 250lb person? What if person A is a daily runner and b is a couch potato?

Our bodies will tell us when we need water.. we get thirsty, our urine turns dark colors, etc - this is a built in survival mechanism that works very, very well!

The mayo clinic says this:
"Most healthy people can stay hydrated by drinking water and other fluids whenever they feel thirsty. For some people, fewer than eight glasses a day might be enough. But other people might need more."

https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/8-glasses-of-water-per-day#section2

5. Oil: Have 2 teaspoons of healthy oil each day.
Two teaspoons of olive, canola, safflower, sunflower or flaxseed oil are recommended—so your body gets the vitamin E and essential fatty acids it needs.
Interesting advice... I have never heard this one before, and don't know much about it. Most of the time I hear about olive oil being the "best oil", but haven't seen much hard data to back that up yet. We cook with sunflower oil, as it has a light flavor, and doesn't scorch easily - and we use it often. I'm sure I get plenty, but never actually tried to include it in my diet intentionally.

6. Protein: Make sure you get enough protein.
A serving or two a day will keep you healthy. Choose low-fat sources such as skinless poultry, lean meat, fish and eggs.
Yep - my protein is usually good. I track it, but in grams. I aim for 96 grams per day minimum... what is a "serving" anyway? Low fat though... which I do NOT follow.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/08/29/low-fat-diet-linked-higher-death-rates-major-lancet-study-finds/
https://www.webmd.com/diet/guide/low-fat-diet#1

And even this is a bit misleading, as we are learning that what we THOUGHT we knew about good fats, bad fats, and cholesterol may be wrong anyway... and trying to treat our fat intake and cholesterol levels with drugs is killing us too!

https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/319131.php
https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/releases/316552.php
https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/319832.php
https://health.clevelandclinic.org/2015/02/why-you-should-no-longer-worry-about-cholesterol-in-food/


7. Sugar and alcohol: Limit your intake.
Both contain empty calories. Avoid processed foods with added sugar. And experts recommend no more than one serving of alcohol per day for women, and no more than two per day for men.
I find it ironic that sugar and alcohol are lumped in together... Two separate issues entirely when it comes to health, other than too much of either over long periods of time will hurt the liver.

What is a "serving" of alcohol? I've heard the whole "1 shot of distilled liquor,1 glass of wine, or 1 beer = serving" - but the amount of alcohol can vary dramatically depending on what exactly you choose even among those! Also there is evidence that alcohol even in moderate quantities can be bad for us while other studies say the opposite (that moderate alcohol intake will help you live longer and prevent heart disease)... The only thing they can agree on is that a lot is bad for us.

Personally I drink 1 beer when I have BBQ which isn't very often - maybe 1 or 2 times per month. I like it.. it's tasty together, and since "science" can't make up its mind if it's good or bad or how much is good or bad, I don't worry about it too much.

I find it even more ironic that the top of this list talks about servings of fruit as a minimum... and fruit can be a pretty big source of sugar.

I also don't find "sugar" or "carbs" as being a bad thing - we need carbs for our brains to function. We glucose to replenish glycogen stores in our muscles after exercise... our body is designed to run on them! Can we get too much of a good thing? Sure... but I do not shy away from them in any way shape or form.


8. Vitamins: Take a multiple vitamin-mineral supplement every day.
Every body is different, so talk to your doctor to figure out the right multivitamin for you.
I don't do this.
http://www.heart.org/HEARTORG/Conditions/Vitamin-Supplements-Healthy-or-Hoax_UCM_432104_Article.jsp
https://www.webmd.com/vitamins-and-supplements/news/20131216/experts-dont-waste-your-money-on-multivitamins#1

Out_of_Bubblegum

For the TLDR crowd... I don't follow these guidelines. I think most of them are outdated and worse than useless advice. I educate myself on the latest research regularly, and follow most of that instead.

- and my blood work is excellent.

Calvin2008Brian

bwmalone wrote: »

worse than useless advice.

Interesting. Which do you believe are actually doing harm?

Rachel0778

bwmalone wrote: »

3. Milk products: Get at least two 1-cup servings of milk a day.
Eat at least 2 servings of non- or low-fat milk products each day. A serving is 1 cup. Increase to 3 servings if you’re over 50 or weigh more than 250 pounds.
I have a big issue with this one... I am a firm believer in full fat dairy, and there are recent studies to back this up. If I'm going to have dairy, it will be full fat, thank you. This appears to be leftover from the "low fat" diet, and really needs to be re-evaluated!
https://health.usnews.com/wellness/food/articles/2016-10-28/5-reasons-to-start-eating-full-fat-dairy-according-to-science

I didn't even catch the low fat part of the GHG's for dairy! I don't do non-fat cheese because it's sad. I do low fat or fat free yogurt because I can barely tell a difference and I like the extra calories in my day. To each their own. One of my favorite blogs did a review of the full fat dairy studies that I found intriguing. http://www.bodyforwife.com/high-fat-dairy-is-not-better-for-heath-or-weight-loss/

Out_of_Bubblegum

Calvin2008Brian wrote: »

bwmalone wrote: »

worse than useless advice.

Interesting. Which do you believe are actually doing harm?

All of the "low fat" advice is top of the list - (#3 low fat dairy, #6 protein should come from lean meat).

Followed closely is #1 - what is a 1/2 cup serving and why is it important to get 5 of them??
That is very arbitrary, and has nothing to do with the nutritional value of the food that is being eaten. Is 5 1/2 cups of strawberries enough? What if I eat 5 cups of grapes (very high calorie), and 1/2 cup of colliflower? What about cooking methods? What if I deep fry all of my vegetables before eating them? (Don't laugh at this.. I have a friend who is significantly obese partly because she deep fries ALL her vegetables and won't touch them any other way.. and justifies it because she is eating vegetables.)

Out_of_Bubblegum

Rachel0778 wrote: »

bwmalone wrote: »

3. Milk products: Get at least two 1-cup servings of milk a day.
Eat at least 2 servings of non- or low-fat milk products each day. A serving is 1 cup. Increase to 3 servings if you’re over 50 or weigh more than 250 pounds.
I have a big issue with this one... I am a firm believer in full fat dairy, and there are recent studies to back this up. If I'm going to have dairy, it will be full fat, thank you. This appears to be leftover from the "low fat" diet, and really needs to be re-evaluated!
https://health.usnews.com/wellness/food/articles/2016-10-28/5-reasons-to-start-eating-full-fat-dairy-according-to-science

I didn't even catch the low fat part of the GHG's for dairy! I don't do non-fat cheese because it's sad. I do low fat or fat free yogurt because I can barely tell a difference and I like the extra calories in my day. To each their own. One of my favorite blogs did a review of the full fat dairy studies that I found intriguing. http://www.bodyforwife.com/high-fat-dairy-is-not-better-for-heath-or-weight-loss/

Thanks for the article - will check it out!

imastar2

When I did follow WW exclusively I would hit and miss but I did check them off and do my best to working them in.

Now I am following my dietitian's advice and it is still a work in process. These guides lines however are part of my daily intake for the most part.

Some of them don't apply to me so I skip over them. I do stick to the dairy, fruits, vegetables. proteins and carbohydrates. The servings and portions are taylored for my specific height and weight.

SW 400.8
CW 317.7
Next GW 300.0
Final GW 185.0

83.1 lbs Total lost

podkey

I don't drink milk. Otherwise sure. Healthy oils most important in dieting.

minimyzeme

Nice tweak on the intro @Calvin2008Brian !

I've never followed them verbatim. However, I keep them in-mind and try to incorporate them into my LTL habits to a much greater extent than pre-WW. That said, I don't eat nearly as much dairy as I used to. I probably drank a gallon of 2% (later, whole) milk a week pre-WW. Now I rarely drink a glass a month. It's a point tradeoff thing for me mostly as I still like the flavor. I don't like fat-free milk (or cheese either-- @Rachel0778 's right: it's sad!).

Compared to the way I used to eat, the GHGs are decent guidelines for me. I trust they've contributed to my improved blood metrics the last few years.

88olds

Never gave GHGs much attention really. Mostly I took a few ideas from them- water is good, diary is OK, some oils are better than others.

podkey

I participated in a flax oil study which helped my skin a bunch. That aside we unfortunately CANNOT manufacture the oils and membranes we require in our bodies for brain,nervous tissue, skin and really all cells in the body from saturated fats. That is why certain oils are called essential fatty acids. Just like with amino acids from various protein sources there are certain oil/fatty acids our bodies require from which we can make all the various fats and membranes our body needed.

If we only cut calories and only eat saturated fats and skip essential fatty acids we will be deficient. Flax oil, olive oil, Canola are examples of oils that have some of these. I don't get carried away with all the micromanagement of various essential oils but include olive oil and flax daily.
It isn't really about dissing saturated fat although we don't require it and can't use it to manufacture what we need. Just like with vegans who have to pay attention to getting in the essential amino acids in their diet it is good for us to include some essential "healthy" oils in our diets.

Milk is tolerated by quite a few northern europeans but isn't really required for a healthy diet per se and we all drink fluids daily .

Calvin2008Brian

minimyzeme wrote: »

Nice tweak on the intro @Calvin2008Brian !

I wasn't sure anyone would notice. Thank you.